Can a person be Born again - and not beleive in the Trinity

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thecreationtutor

thecreationtutor

Senior Member
#1
Jun 30, 2011
2,521
35
0
#1
A person who is born again - is born by Spirit of God - The Holy Spirit
The Holy Spirit takes what is Christ's and gives it too us - reminds us that we are his

I have seen the arguments

two people in the world - those in Adam, and those in Christ

Ephesians 4:1-6
One Father
One (Holy)Spirit
One Lord(Jesus Christ)

I mean we will sit hear and argue over gifts of the Spirit, and then try to say their off the wall and must not be saved, but what about someone who completely denies the nature of God in three persons as revealed in Scriptures easily
 
R

Richie_2uk

Guest
#2
#2
Well we believe in the bible or not?, if we do believe the bible, then we believe everything in the bible. we can't believe only in things we want. Although the word Trinity is not in the bible. But It dont mean the explanation isn't there.

1 John 5:7
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

So as you can see the explanation is there about the Trinity, even though the word trinity isn't mentioned.
 
T

The_highwayman

Guest
#3
#3
thecreationtutor said:
A person who is born again - is born by Spirit of God - The Holy Spirit
The Holy Spirit takes what is Christ's and gives it too us - reminds us that we are his

I have seen the arguments

two people in the world - those in Adam, and those in Christ

Ephesians 4:1-6
One Father
One (Holy)Spirit
One Lord(Jesus Christ)

I mean we will sit hear and argue over gifts of the Spirit, and then try to say their off the wall and must not be saved, but what about someone who completely denies the nature of God in three persons as revealed in Scriptures easily
Click to expand...
I asked this in another thread earlier today.

If there is no Divine Trinity, then how do those that do not believe in the TRIUNE GOD, explain the satanic trinity found in the Book of Revelation?

We know the enemy wants to be God and exalt himself above God and will imitate God, so he will set up a Satanic Trinity composed of:

himself
The Beast
The false Prophet

Whereby Satan represents God, the Beast represents Jesus Christ and the False Prophet represents the Holy Ghost.

I guess the whole Book of Revelation is a lie. WHO KNEW!?!?! :cool:
 
R

Richie_2uk

Guest
#4
#4
The_highwayman said:
I asked this in another thread earlier today.

If there is no Divine Trinity, then how do those that do not believe in the TRIUNE GOD, explain the satanic trinity found in the Book of Revelation?

We know the enemy wants to be God and exalt himself above God and will imitate God, so he will set up a Satanic Trinity composed of:

himself
The Beast
The false Prophet

Whereby Satan represents God, the Beast represents Jesus Christ and the False Prophet represents the Holy Ghost.

I guess the whole Book of Revelation is a lie. WHO KNEW!?!?! :cool:
Click to expand...
I guess you can only GUESS the book Revelation is a lie, I can only Guess that you don't Really KNOW. But I guess you do a lot of guessing and not knowing? That's to your decision of course, but by telling what you ONLY GUESS, can put a lot of people off there belief.

You see, you get a yes or a no from God. Anything in the middle? well it don't come from God. So you keep on GUESSING, about the bible, and let the believers Who want to KNOW. The Bible is not based on guess work. You either believe it or not.

Funny how Satan denies the truth? WHO KNEW!?!?! :cool:
 
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T

The_highwayman

Guest
#5
#5
Richie_2uk said:
I guess you can only GUESS the book Revelation is a lie, I can only Guess that you don't Really KNOW. But I guess you do a lot of guessing and not knowing? That's to your decision of course, but by telling what you ONLY GUESS, can put a lot of people off there belief.

You see, you get a yes or a no from God. Anything in the middle? well it don't come from God. So you keep on GUESSING, about the bible, and let the believers Who want to KNOW. The Bible is not based on guess work. You either believe it or not.

Funny how Satan denies the truth? WHO KNEW!?!?! :cool:
Click to expand...
Dude, it was a joke...tongue in cheek humor, of course Revelations is not a lie :rolleyes:
 
R

Richie_2uk

Guest
#6
#6
The_highwayman said:
Dude, it was a joke...tongue in cheek humor, of course Revelations is not a lie :rolleyes:
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Hmm A joke? is that how you see the Bible? Fair enough, be it on your own head.
But like it says in the bible in

1 Corinthians 1:18
" For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.!
 
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K

Karraster

Guest
#7
#7
The Big Book of Bible Difficulties tells us: "This verse has virtually no support among the early Greek manuscripts . . . Its appearance in late Greek manuscripts is based on the fact that Erasmus was placed under ecclesiastical pressure to include it in his Greek NT of 1522, having omitted it in his two earlier editions of 1516 and 1519 because he could not find any Greek manuscripts which contained it" (Norman Geisler and Thomas Howe, 2008, pp. 540-541).

Still, even the added wording does not by itself proclaim the Trinity doctrine. The addition, illegitimate though it is, merely presents Father, Word and Holy Spirit as witnesses. This says nothing about the personhood of all three since verse 7 shows inanimate water and blood serving as such.

Again, the word Trinity did not come into common use as a religious term until after the Council of Nicaea in A.D. 325, several centuries after the last books of the New Testament were complete. It is not a biblical concept.

I prefer to heed what the Bible teaches about the Father has given all authority to the Son, and the Son is the way truth and life.

Because I find manmade theology suspect, makes me no less follower of Messiah.
 
RedTent

RedTent

Banned
#9
Oct 31, 2011
8,200
182
0
#9
Karraster said:
The Big Book of Bible Difficulties tells us: "This verse has virtually no support among the early Greek manuscripts . . . Its appearance in late Greek manuscripts is based on the fact that Erasmus was placed under ecclesiastical pressure to include it in his Greek NT of 1522, having omitted it in his two earlier editions of 1516 and 1519 because he could not find any Greek manuscripts which contained it" (Norman Geisler and Thomas Howe, 2008, pp. 540-541).

Still, even the added wording does not by itself proclaim the Trinity doctrine. The addition, illegitimate though it is, merely presents Father, Word and Holy Spirit as witnesses. This says nothing about the personhood of all three since verse 7 shows inanimate water and blood serving as such.

Again, the word Trinity did not come into common use as a religious term until after the Council of Nicaea in A.D. 325, several centuries after the last books of the New Testament were complete. It is not a biblical concept.

I prefer to heed what the Bible teaches about the Father has given all authority to the Son, and the Son is the way truth and life.

Because I find manmade theology suspect, makes me no less follower of Messiah.
Click to expand...
I don't think the solution to this problem is in the word trinity. Another way of saying the same thing is to ask if scripture says that God the Father, God the Son. and the Holy Ghost are all the same God, just manifested in different ways.
 
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Reformedjason

Guest
#10
#10
If you simply misunderstand the the nature of God like oneness people you can be saved. They deny the trinity but do not deny the deity of Jesus. If you are like the Jehovah witness and deny the deity of Christ then no you can't be saved.
 
thecreationtutor

thecreationtutor

Senior Member
#11
Jun 30, 2011
2,521
35
0
#11
Reformedjason said:
If you simply misunderstand the the nature of God like oneness people you can be saved. They deny the trinity but do not deny the deity of Jesus. If you are like the Jehovah witness and deny the deity of Christ then no you can't be saved.
Click to expand...


i might rephrase - isn't saved - they may come to the saving knowledge of Christ - we pray
 
thecreationtutor

thecreationtutor

Senior Member
#12
Jun 30, 2011
2,521
35
0
#12
thecreationtutor said:
i might rephrase - isn't saved - they may come to the saving knowledge of Christ - we pray
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Maybe this illumination of the trinity - name we give it - we take for granted because we don't always realize the need of the holy spirit's illumination of the revelation of the trinity

Thank You Holy Spirit
 
p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#13
Sep 4, 2013
30,196
6,539
113
#13
Don't need to read this thread, or the OP..........the Title is sufficient.......

NO!
 
G

gzusfrk

Senior Member
#14
Aug 4, 2013
359
5
18
#14
thecreationtutor said:
A person who is born again - is born by Spirit of God - The Holy Spirit
The Holy Spirit takes what is Christ's and gives it too us - reminds us that we are his

I have seen the arguments

two people in the world - those in Adam, and those in Christ

Ephesians 4:1-6
One Father
One (Holy)Spirit
One Lord(Jesus Christ)

I mean we will sit hear and argue over gifts of the Spirit, and then try to say their off the wall and must not be saved, but what about someone who completely denies the nature of God in three persons as revealed in Scriptures easily
Click to expand...
I think when one is born again, they are a babe in Christ, they have a long and difficult path, in can take a life time to reach the goal,just because a babe in Christ does not accept the Trinity does not mean they wont later.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#15
Nov 24, 2012
30,706
3,650
113
#15
At first a person may be born again and not know about the trinity. But once they are shown solid proof from Scripture, the Holy Spirit will attest to their spirit and they will have an A-HA! moment.
 
p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#16
Sep 4, 2013
30,196
6,539
113
#16
Both of those comments have merit, yet the OP did not specify a "NEWBORN CHRISTIAN."

This was the main question I was addressing:

QUOTE: I mean we will sit hear and argue over gifts of the Spirit, and then try to say their off the wall and must not be saved, but what about someone who completely denies the nature of God in three persons as revealed in Scriptures easily
END QUOTE:
 
doseofreality

doseofreality

Banned
#17
Dec 9, 2013
753
5
0
#17
Richie_2uk said:
Well we believe in the bible or not?, if we do believe the bible, then we believe everything in the bible. we can't believe only in things we want. Although the word Trinity is not in the bible. But It dont mean the explanation isn't there.

1 John 5:7
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

So as you can see the explanation is there about the Trinity, even though the word trinity isn't mentioned.
Click to expand...
I am not here to challenge the doctrine of the trinity but I contest the use of this verse as an explanation for the trinity.
It seems this text only occurs in the King James Version and only can be found in late Vulgate Latin manuscripts.
All other translations from the earliest greek manuscripts simply say: 7 For there are three that testify:
and the context obviously is referring to the blood, water, and spirit spoken in verse 8.

This more likely is evidence that the king james verse 7 was added to scripture at a later date.
 
Hizikyah

Hizikyah

Senior Member
#18
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#18
doseofreality said:
I am not here to challenge the doctrine of the trinity but I contest the use of this verse as an explanation for the trinity.
It seems this text only occurs in the King James Version and only can be found in late Vulgate Latin manuscripts.
All other translations from the earliest greek manuscripts simply say: 7 For there are three that testify:
and the context obviously is referring to the blood, water, and spirit spoken in verse 8.

This more likely is evidence that the king james verse 7 was added to scripture at a later date.
Click to expand...
Most well know forgery in all bibles
 
G

gzusfrk

Senior Member
#19
Aug 4, 2013
359
5
18
#19
p_rehbein said:
Both of those comments have merit, yet the OP did not specify a "NEWBORN CHRISTIAN."

This was the main question I was addressing:

QUOTE: I mean we will sit hear and argue over gifts of the Spirit, and then try to say their off the wall and must not be saved, but what about someone who completely denies the nature of God in three persons as revealed in Scriptures easily
END QUOTE:
Click to expand...
They might not have enough Jesus in there hearts to believe that yet. And the Word doesnt say that one is saved by the Trinity, but by Jesus. He always said I am the way, not we are the way.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#20
Nov 24, 2012
30,706
3,650
113
#20
p_rehbein said:
Both of those comments have merit, yet the OP did not specify a "NEWBORN CHRISTIAN."

This was the main question I was addressing:

QUOTE: I mean we will sit hear and argue over gifts of the Spirit, and then try to say their off the wall and must not be saved, but what about someone who completely denies the nature of God in three persons as revealed in Scriptures easily
END QUOTE:
Click to expand...
This is what I read...

''Can a person be Born again - and not beleive in the Trinity''

...maybe it is a case of bait and switch?
 
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