Such cofusion in the church concerning the rapture

[Heartsearcher]

geez... i have had all i can take... so as most of you know i am a pretribe rapture believer,and as such believe jesus can come back for us at any time. there are lots of others who are pre tribers as well but many of them only cause confusion. for instance in the middle of 2013 many ppl said they had dreams where jesus said he is coming NOW. they kept appearing all over the place all over the world. but now and for a long time not one person says that any more.
then the most frustraiting thing...people coming out saying god personally told them certain thing or more specifically certain ppl had to die before christ comes back two of them areil sharon and billy graham ariel died and if i am correct billy is having some health issues. honestly this whole prophesy of these ppl having to die and then jesus would follow shortly didnt seem quite right to me. i mean in all my rapture dream when i was taken it happen suddenly and without warning, in one of them i was just walking and then suddenly i was taken to heaven nothing had to happen first it just happened.

then today one of my favorite youtubers said god told him first before he comes back betty white whoever that is has to die. that tore it i became so sick and tired of ppl being like this. ppl are either saying misleading things without meaning to or they are just being flat out misleading and confusing. yes yes i know we should stick to the bible for the answers but these days god is using ppl to prophesy prophesies that are not in the bible. i personally have seen the prophet known as harvest army prophesy many things and lots of them came true

 

[dcontroversal]

geez... i have had all i can take... so as most of you know i am a pretribe rapture believer,and as such believe jesus can come back for us at any time. there are lots of others who are pre tribers as well but many of them only cause confusion. for instance in the middle of 2013 many ppl said they had dreams where jesus said he is coming NOW. they kept appearing all over the place all over the world. but now and for a long time not one person says that any more.
then the most frustraiting thing...people coming out saying god personally told them certain thing or more specifically certain ppl had to die before christ comes back two of them areil sharon and billy graham ariel died and if i am correct billy is having some health issues. honestly this whole prophesy of these ppl having to die and then jesus would follow shortly didnt seem quite right to me. i mean in all my rapture dream when i was taken it happen suddenly and without warning, in one of them i was just walking and then suddenly i was taken to heaven nothing had to happen first it just happened.

then today one of my favorite youtubers said god told him first before he comes back betty white whoever that is has to die. that tore it i became so sick and tired of ppl being like this. ppl are either saying misleading things without meaning to or they are just being flat out misleading and confusing. yes yes i know we should stick to the bible for the answers but these days god is using ppl to prophesy prophesies that are not in the bible. i personally have seen the prophet known as harvest army prophesy many things and lots of them came true

There is no confusion when you study the word of God in context while being open to learning and instruction instead of a closed mind based upon regurgitated heresy which had it's origin in 1830 or so by a liar and a deceiver.

 

[Woodartdon]

Dear Heartsearcher
About 12 years ago I set down with 3 different scholars with different opinions about the rapture. They each had good scriptural support for their stances. After concluding that they could all be right and God may take His 3 different times. Who knows? Does not really mater at all as we have yet to strive for what the bible gives us as step #1.

 

[Anonimous]

There is no confusion when you study the word of God in context while being open to learning and instruction instead of a closed mind based upon regurgitated heresy which had it's origin in 1830 or so by a liar and a deceiver.

"Oooops! My bad." -Darby

 

[biscuit]

geez... i have had all i can take... so as most of you know i am a pretribe rapture believer,and as such believe jesus can come back for us at any time. there are lots of others who are pre tribers as well but many of them only cause confusion. for instance in the middle of 2013 many ppl said they had dreams where jesus said he is coming NOW. they kept appearing all over the place all over the world. but now and for a long time not one person says that any more.
then the most frustraiting thing...people coming out saying god personally told them certain thing or more specifically certain ppl had to die before christ comes back two of them areil sharon and billy graham ariel died and if i am correct billy is having some health issues. honestly this whole prophesy of these ppl having to die and then jesus would follow shortly didnt seem quite right to me. i mean in all my rapture dream when i was taken it happen suddenly and without warning, in one of them i was just walking and then suddenly i was taken to heaven nothing had to happen first it just happened.

then today one of my favorite youtubers said god told him first before he comes back betty white whoever that is has to die. that tore it i became so sick and tired of ppl being like this. ppl are either saying misleading things without meaning to or they are just being flat out misleading and confusing. yes yes i know we should stick to the bible for the answers but these days god is using ppl to prophesy prophesies that are not in the bible. i personally have seen the prophet known as harvest army prophesy many things and lots of them came true

Try to base your beliefs through Jesus and the scriptures first. I found two top world respected theologians to verify my acceptance of the pre-trib rapture. There are just too many nuts out there on all sides when it comes to the rapture.

 

[Vernon]

That you believe in a pre-trib rapture does not make it true, Jesus raptures believers everyday, it is just their bodies stay here on the earth. We are called to Watch and be prepared for His reappearing, his coming will not take his true sheep by surprise. No one knows the exact day or hour of his reappearing, but we all know the season, and we are in that season. Be dressed and ready for service and keep your lamp burning.

Christ be with you always.

 

[RedTent]

We have so many in the church who make side issues the important things we should know about our Lord and what God wants of us. Instead of being of the family of God they are of the family of tritrib rapture, and all of the variations of that. Instead of learning scripture they learn about Baptist, Catholic, Calvin, etc. belief. They study Tim LaHaye and Hal Lindsey instead of scripture.

At the same time they go on and on about all these things, they say we must not study the feasts, or what circumcision meant, or anything about the law of Moses. The last three feasts that scripture tells us about would explain the last days to them and they say you must not learn from them.

 

[dcontroversal]

We have so many in the church who make side issues the important things we should know about our Lord and what God wants of us. Instead of being of the family of God they are of the family of tritrib rapture, and all of the variations of that. Instead of learning scripture they learn about Baptist, Catholic, Calvin, etc. belief. They study Tim LaHaye and Hal Lindsey instead of scripture.

At the same time they go on and on about all these things, they say we must not study the feasts, or what circumcision meant, or anything about the law of Moses. The last three feasts that scripture tells us about would explain the last days to them and they say you must not learn from them.

Yes in deed and next on the list is the Feasts of (Trumpets)!

 

[dcontroversal]

Try to base your beliefs through Jesus and the scriptures first. I found two top world respected theologians to verify my acceptance of the pre-trib rapture. There are just too many nuts out there on all sides when it comes to the rapture.

Just call me (cashew) HAH!

 

[dcontroversal]

"Oooops! My bad." -Darby

Don't you know that that dude is paying the price for the heresy that he started!

 

[kennethcadwell]

We have so many in the church who make side issues the important things we should know about our Lord and what God wants of us. Instead of being of the family of God they are of the family of tritrib rapture, and all of the variations of that. Instead of learning scripture they learn about Baptist, Catholic, Calvin, etc. belief. They study Tim LaHaye and Hal Lindsey instead of scripture.

At the same time they go on and on about all these things, they say we must not study the feasts, or what circumcision meant, or anything about the law of Moses. The last three feasts that scripture tells us about would explain the last days to them and they say you must not learn from them.

I agree with what you have said. Which is why the word of God has been watered down for so long. It is slowly starting to change, and the truth is getting out. But along with the truth, so deception grows as well. Unfortunately in this day and age the deception grows faster than truth. Some of which is Satan's doing, others is people who don't like what the scriptures say so they change it, or use just part of it to fit their life and needs. Even Jesus referred back to the old testament in his teachings so his disciples could get the truth of His word.

 

[Heartsearcher]

well regardless i told god i dont care any more about who says when the rapture will happen or what takes place first or whethe its a pre mid or post rapture because i have had it. no matter the belief no matter the scripture no matter they are proven wrong everyone is right in their own eyes. so i asked god to reveal the truth-his truth not mans about the rapture. in fact this whole system of pre mid or post trib rapture this is ridiculus because i have seen many many of all three believers not a single own is willing to throw down what they believe and learn. its nothing but constant debating and arguing no learning.
so hopefully god will show me the truth so that all this disunity may have a stopping point

 

[dcontroversal]

Dear Heartsearcher
About 12 years ago I set down with 3 different scholars with different opinions about the rapture. They each had good scriptural support for their stances. After concluding that they could all be right and God may take His 3 different times. Who knows? Does not really mater at all as we have yet to strive for what the bible gives us as step #1.

Woody, I would disagree with that approach as there is one central truth concerning the resurrection/change and about a three to one when it comes to scriptures that teach about the 2nd (coming) of Jesus as opposed to his first coming.
To teach all three points would in deed point to scripture taken out of context so as to (hang) a false belief thereon!

Lastly for ALL to read.....IF JESUS DID NOT WANT US TO UNDERSTAND THE TRUTH ABOUT HIS (BODY PRESENCE) and our gathering together unto him he would not have given so many scriptures that deal with it and to trivialize them away under some foolish banner of (it doesn't matter) is foolish and contradictory with all the principles that God lays to his word and the study of said word!

 

[kennethcadwell]

Woody, I would disagree with that approach as there is one central truth concerning the resurrection/change and about a three to one when it comes to scriptures that teach about the 2nd (coming) of Jesus as opposed to his first coming.
To teach all three points would in deed point to scripture taken out of context so as to (hang) a false belief thereon!

Lastly for ALL to read.....IF JESUS DID NOT WANT US TO UNDERSTAND THE TRUTH ABOUT HIS (BODY PRESENCE) and our gathering together unto him he would not have given so many scriptures that deal with it and to trivialize them away under some foolish banner of (it doesn't matter) is foolish and contradictory with all the principles that God lays to his word and the study of said word!

dcontoversal are you saying then you will not be in Heaven if you have the tribulation time wrong, or don't even believe in the rapture at all as some do. According to what i have read there is nowhere in the bible that says it is a mandatory for salvation. Believing in God, accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, repenting of sins, and baptism is the only requirements for salvation. Not when or where the rapture will occur, that being said i am not saying it is not important. But debating over it in heated arguments is wrong, which is where i believe Woodartdon is trying to emphasize.

 

[dcontroversal]

dcontoversal are you saying then you will not be in Heaven if you have the tribulation time wrong, or don't even believe in the rapture at all as some do. According to what i have read there is nowhere in the bible that says it is a mandatory for salvation. Believing in God, accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, repenting of sins, and baptism is the only requirements for salvation. Not when or where the rapture will occur, that being said i am not saying it is not important. But debating over it in heated arguments is wrong, which is where i believe Woodartdon is trying to emphasize.

Why don't you go read all the post that I have posted on the subject and then choose to not ask a question that has absolutely no bearing on the conversation at hand as I have never tied this subject unto salvation.

Second... Lastly for ALL to read.....IF JESUS DID NOT WANT US TO UNDERSTAND THE TRUTH ABOUT HIS (BODY PRESENCE) and our gathering together unto him he would not have given so many scriptures that deal with it and to trivialize them away under some foolish banner of (it doesn't matter) is foolish and contradictory with all the principles that God lays to his word and the study of said word!

Third...who is in a heated debate? As I am not heated at all?

Fourth...you shouldn't assume anything in these chat rooms mi amigo!

 

[ClaudiaT]

This may help people realize where the rapture theory actually originated from

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlxWdO9pWPY

 

[john832]

"Oooops! My bad." -Darby

Well, he just refined the idea from Francisco Ribera circa 1585.

 

[PlainWord]

There is no need for there to be confusion over this issue. We are clearly taught in multiple places that the Lord returns, "Immediately AFTER the Tribulation of those days." There is no teaching that the Lord returns before this for some secret Rapture. There is no teaching that tells us the Lord returns to heaven after coming here with or without anyone. There is no teaching that any living person is transformed when the Lord returns. (If you read 1 Cor 15:51-52 you will not see any mention of the Lord or His return or any gathering of Saints).

Again, the only timing for the Lord's return ever given is AFTER the Tribulation. The Lord is coming to earth to establish His kingdom, He is not establishing it in heaven. He comes here, we don't go there - not alive at least.

The Tribulation is NOT the Wrath of God, it is temptation of Satan. God's Wrath happens after this at during or just before the Lord's return. Most of the Christian world will be slaughtered thus we have the Great Multitude in heaven in Rev 7.

Rev 13:

[SUP]7 [/SUP]And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Rev 7:

[SUP]9 [/SUP]After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

[SUP]14 [/SUP]And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Clearly the church is on earth during the Tribulation or there would be no great multitude to be killed. This is how the church ends up in heaven, not from some fictitious rapture. Clearly this multitude is killed in some global event and clearly this global event is selective - targeting Christians.

Rev 9:

[SUP]15 [/SUP]And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.

Exactly a third part (33.32%) of mankind consider themselves Christian today. Coincidence???

 

[thecreationtutor]

We should just be excited that Jesus is coming back, join the party, not the planning committee - i don't really care if your post, mid, pre - just as long as you believe He's coming back - personally I think of a pre-wrath rapture - but that's just me

 

[Heartsearcher]

There is no need for there to be confusion over this issue. We are clearly taught in multiple places that the Lord returns, "Immediately AFTER the Tribulation of those days." There is no teaching that the Lord returns before this for some secret Rapture. There is no teaching that tells us the Lord returns to heaven after coming here with or without anyone. There is no teaching that any living person is transformed when the Lord returns. (If you read 1 Cor 15:51-52 you will not see any mention of the Lord or His return or any gathering of Saints).

Again, the only timing for the Lord's return ever given is AFTER the Tribulation. The Lord is coming to earth to establish His kingdom, He is not establishing it in heaven. He comes here, we don't go there - not alive at least.

The Tribulation is NOT the Wrath of God, it is temptation of Satan. God's Wrath happens after this at during or just before the Lord's return. Most of the Christian world will be slaughtered thus we have the Great Multitude in heaven in Rev 7.

Rev 13:

[SUP]7 [/SUP]And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Rev 7:

[SUP]9 [/SUP]After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

[SUP]14 [/SUP]And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Clearly the church is on earth during the Tribulation or there would be no great multitude to be killed. This is how the church ends up in heaven, not from some fictitious rapture. Clearly this multitude is killed in some global event and clearly this global event is selective - targeting Christians.

Rev 9:

[SUP]15 [/SUP]And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.

Exactly a third part (33.32%) of mankind consider themselves Christian today. Coincidence???

i dont know if the rapture and the second coming is the same thing because i dont know any scripture to connect the two. they are each spoken of yet almost seem like two seperate events as i have not seen any scripture to connect them