How Close is 666?

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Richie_2uk

Guest
#1
There has been such a lot of coverage stories, however some are somewhat fairly tale stuff, Some are just plain stupid made up junk that a child of 3 would make up, some are very interesting but unbelievable, and some say we are now close to the real truth, Some say it will be a chip, some say its not the chip. So how near are we. that we going to see the reality of the Marking of the beast? and what are we going to do?

Some say very soon, some will say, how can we predict such thing, some will say they can't be bothered hearing about all this stuff, some will say, it will come when it comes. So when do we start to prepare for such event? And will we accept the mark of the beast? We can say no, but we will be forced to receive it.

Revelations 13: 16 "It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads,"

Revelations 13: 18 "This calls for wisdom. Let the person who has insight calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man. That number is 666.

[video]http://nyxstory.wordpress.com/the-mark-666/[/video]
 
Feb 23, 2013
571
10
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#2
There has been such a lot of coverage stories, however some are somewhat fairly tale stuff, Some are just plain stupid made up junk that a child of 3 would make up, some are very interesting but unbelievable, and some say we are now close to the real truth, Some say it will be a chip, some say its not the chip. So how near are we. that we going to see the reality of the Marking of the beast? and what are we going to do?

Some say very soon, some will say, how can we predict such thing, some will say they can't be bothered hearing about all this stuff, some will say, it will come when it comes. So when do we start to prepare for such event? And will we accept the mark of the beast? We can say no, but we will be forced to receive it.

Revelations 13: 16 "It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads,"

Revelations 13: 18 "This calls for wisdom. Let the person who has insight calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man. That number is 666.

[video]http://nyxstory.wordpress.com/the-mark-666/[/video]
hmmm well if one honestly responds which they will i do not think u will get a straight answer just lots of ppl arguing and arguing and arguing. i mean have u ever seen a thread about subjects like this ever get a straight answer? i mean at least you will have a popular thread but i dont think u will get the answers u need
 
R

Richie_2uk

Guest
#3
hmmm well if one honestly responds which they will i do not think u will get a straight answer just lots of ppl arguing and arguing and arguing. i mean have u ever seen a thread about subjects like this ever get a straight answer? i mean at least you will have a popular thread but i dont think u will get the answers u need
Nothing new on CC lol. But I know I wont get a straight answer, as its something that no one really knows. But i thought to put the questions out there.
 
Feb 23, 2013
571
10
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#4
Nothing new on CC lol. But I know I wont get a straight answer, as its something that no one really knows. But i thought to put the questions out there.
well honestly that chip fulfills so many of the mark in the bible it wouldnt surprise me if it turned out to be the mark as for how soon maybe a few years because obama continues to delay it yet its already being accepted by many ppl because its easy its cool and thats where its all headed anyways. have u ever seen those end times movies where the antichrist has taken over? in many of them chip like implantations are on all his followers... i wonder if that is propheic?
 
Y

Yudahkid12

Guest
#5
Shalam, Its important for all those who serve the Most High God of Israel to understand that these are the last days we are living in. What people must*understand is that the mark of the beast is already here in different countries and soon America (Babylon). Getting the mark of the beast will*
have eternal consequences. I will show you through scripture and precepts*what the mark of the beast is and other questions.*Revelation 13 contains a Bible prophecy that will be fulfilled very soon.*It will affect you and every other person on earth. Satan does not want you to*know what the mark of the beast is. Many will say its just the VeriChip along, but the mark of the beast is a form of identification.*

Greek Strong's #5480 for Mark

Hebrew Strongs #1188, 3225 for hand (Click the Picture to see larger image)
Revelation 13:11-18* And*I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a*lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12* And*he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth*and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was*healed.
13* And*he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the*earth in the sight of men,
14**And*deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles*which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on*the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a*sword, and did live.
15**And*he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the*beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image*of the beast should be killed.
16* And*he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a*mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17* And*that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the*beast, or the number of his name.
18* Here*is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it*is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore*and six.

Precepts to Revelation 13:13:
Deuteronomy 13:1* If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and*giveth thee a sign or a wonder,

Matthew 24:24* For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and*shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible,*they shall deceive the very elect.

2 Thessalonians 2:9**Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and*signs and lying wonders,

Revelation 16:14* For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles,*which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to*
gather them to the battle of that great day of God*Almighty.

1 King 18:38* Then the fire of the LORD fell, and consumed the burnt*sacrifice, and the wood, and the stones, and the dust, and licked up the water*that was in the trench.

2 King 1:10* And Elijah answered and said to the captain of fifty, If I*be a man of God, then let fire come down from heaven, and consume thee*and thy fifty. And there came down fire from heaven, and consumed him and his*fifty.

Precept to Revelation 13:14:
2 King 20:7* And Isaiah said, Take a lump of figs. And they took and laid*it on the boil, and he recovered.

Precepts to Revelation*13:17:
Revelation*14:11* And the smoke of their torment* ascendeth up for ever and*ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship* the beast and his image,*and whosoever receiveth the mark of his*name.

Revelation*15:2* And I saw as it were a sea of*glass mingled with fire: and* them that had gotten the victory over the beast,*and over his image, and over* his mark,and*over the number of his*name, stand on the sea of glass,* having the harps of*God.

Precepts to Revelation*13:18:
Psalms*107:43* Whoso*is*wise, and will observe these*things, even they shall understand the lovingkindness of the*LORD.

Hosea*14:9* Ephraim*shall say, What have I to do any more*with idols? I have heard*him, and observed him: Iam*like a*green fir tree. From me is*
thy fruit*found.

Revelation*2:17* He that hath an ear, let him*hear what the Spirit saith* unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I*give to eat of the hidden* manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the*stone a new name written,* which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth*it.

(The mark of the beast is a physical mark either on the right hand or forhead of those who accept the mark of the beast. Also all those who dont accept the mark of the beast will be killed.) dentify you it can be physical or something that is stamped*on you according to the Strong's # for mark.)



What will happen to those who accept the Mark of the Beast?

Greek Strong's #5480 for Mark

Revelation 14:9-11* And*the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the*beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his*hand,
10**The*same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without*mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and*brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the*Lamb:
11*And*the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest*day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the*mark of his name.

Precept to Revelation 14:10:
Psalms 75:8* For in the hand of the LORD*there is*a cup, and the wine is red; it is*full of mixture; and he poureth out of the same: but the dregs hereof, all the*wicked of the earth shall wring*them*out,*and*drink*them.

Precepts to Revelation 14:11:
Isaiah 34:10* It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever:*from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for*ever and ever.

(Those who accept the mark of the beast which is either in there forhead or right hand a wrath shall come upon them from The Most High God. They shall be tormented with fire and brimstone for ever and ever.)


Revelation 16:2**And the first went, and*poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore*upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and*upon*them which*worshipped his image.

Noisome*-*1. Offensive or disgusting, as an odor.*
2. Harmful or injurious to health;*noxious.

Grievous*-*1. Very severe or painful.
2. Causing great pain or suffering.*

Sore*- An*open*skin*lesion,*wound,*or*ulcer.*
Painful to the touch; tender.*

Precepts to Revelation 16:2:
Revelation 8:7* The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood,*and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and*all green grass was burnt up.

Exodus 9:9**And it shall become*small dust in all the land of Egypt, and shall be a boil breaking forth*withblains upon man, and upon beast, throughout all the land of* Egypt.

Revelation 13:16**And he causeth all,*both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their*right hand, or in their foreheads:

(All those who acceept the mark of the beast and who worship the image of the best a noisome and griveous sore shall come upon you from the Most High God of Israel.)


Revelation 19:20**And the beast was*taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with*which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that*worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning*with brimstone.

Precepts to Revelation 19:20:
Daniel 7:11* I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I*beheld*even*till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given*to the burning flame.

Revelation 20:11* And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from*whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for*them.

(For those who accept or take the mark of the beast and who worshipped*his image*you will be thrown in the lake of fire burning with brimstone alive.)



What will happen to all those who dont take the Mark of the Beast?

Greek Strong's #5480 for Mark


Revelation 13:15-18**And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the*beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image*of the beast should be killed.
16**And he*causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free*and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their*foreheads:
17* And*that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the*beast, or the number of his name.
18* Here is wisdom. Let him*that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a*man; and his number*is*Six hundred threescoreand*six.

Precept to Revelation 13:15:
Revelation 20:4* And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was*given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the*witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the*beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their*foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand*years.

Precepts to Revelation 13:17:
Revelation 14:11* And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no*rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth*the mark of his name.

Revelation 15:2* And I saw as it were a*sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the*beast, and over his image, and over his mark,and*over the number of*his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

Precepts to Revelation 13:18:
Psalms 107:43* Whoso*is*wise, and will observe thesethings, even they shall*understand the lovingkindness of the LORD.

Hosea 14:9* Ephraim*shall say, What have I to do any more with idols? I have heard*him, and observed him: Iam*like a green fir tree. From me is*
thy fruit found.

Revelation 2:17* He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To*him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a*white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he*that receiveth*it.

(If you dont take the mark of*the Beast, which you souldn't you wont be able to buy or sell anything unless you have the mark of the beast and you will be killed. The mark of the beast*is the number of a man that is 666 which is satan.)


Revelation 20:4**And I saw thrones, and*they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and*I sawthe*souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of*God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had*received*his*mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they*lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Precepts to Revelation 20:4:
Daniel 7:9**I beheld till the*thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment*was*white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his*throne*was like*the fiery flame,*and*his wheelsas*burning fire.

Matthew 19:28* And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me,*in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye*also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Luke 22:30* That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging*the twelve tribes of Israel.

1 Corithians 6:2-3* Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the*world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest*matters?
3* Know*ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this*life?

Revelation 6:9* And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the*souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which*they held:

Revelation 13:12* And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him,*and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast,*whose deadly wound was healed.

Roman 8:17* And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with*Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified*together.

(All those who dont accept the mark of the beast you will be killed*(beheaded)*and you will also*reigned with Christ a thousand years.)



Conclusion

The whole conclusion of this study lesson is to let those know that its important that we all put of the whole armour of the Most High in these last days, because the time has come that we all be vigilant and be understanding on whats going on. The enemy which is satan will deceive many in these last days.

Ephesians 610-16* Finally,*my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his*might.
11* Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of*the devil.
12* For*we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against*powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual*wickedness in high places.
13* Wherefore*take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the*evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14* Stand*therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the*breastplate of righteousness;
15* And*your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16* Above*all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the*fiery darts of the wicked.
keep in mind that this also ties into the great tribulation which started when Christ died please let me know if need any more info about the great tribulation
 
Jan 6, 2014
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#6
Well if we take the book of the apocalypse literal in these scriptures, then the mark will not come until the first beast (who is mortally wounded but lives) takes over complete control of the entire world. And then the second beast (false prophet) comes on the seen and exercises all the authority of the first beast in its presence (must be that the first beast is alive but incapacitated) the second beast takes control and makes everyone worship the antichrist. the false prophet makes an image of the antichrist and brings it to life and the image demands to be worshiped and kills anyone who refuses to worship the image. Those who worship the image of the beast are given the mark on their right hand or forehead, and only with this mark can you buy or sell.

To make a long story short : a lot of stuff has to happen before people start receiving the mark of the beast.
 
Dec 29, 2013
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#7
The mark of the beast is not a literal 666 tattoo on one's hand or forehead. It is best represented as the opposite of that described in Deuteronomy 6:5-9 and in the following text.

And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. Revelation 12:17 (see also 14:12)

The mark of the beast, the beast system, would be antinomianism (lawlessness), that which is the opposite of the keeping of "the commandments of God."
 
Y

Yudahkid12

Guest
#8
The mark of the beast is not a literal 666 tattoo on one's hand or forehead. It is best represented as the opposite of that described in Deuteronomy 6:5-9 and in the following text.

And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. Revelation 12:17 (see also 14:12)

The mark of the beast, the beast system, would be antinomianism (lawlessness), that which is the opposite of the keeping of "the commandments of God."
I do I agree this is a beast system of things which links into the tribulation that has begun since Christ died and rose
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#9
Nothing new on CC lol. But I know I wont get a straight answer, as its something that no one really knows. But i thought to put the questions out there.
There are several thoughts that cane be gleaned that will answer some of your questions such as...

1. Not everybody will take the mark and the price will be death by beheading--->notice Revelation 6:9-11 and pay particular attention to the statement in the latter part of verse 11, "that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Then notice Revelation 14:9-13 Pay particular attention to context in verse and notice statement in verse 14, "Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth:.."

Then notice Revelation 20:4 which states, "And I saw thrones, and they that sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them (the authority to judge) and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Every man, woman, and child which is lost will be found under the mass deception that will sweep the world which will lead to the mark of the beast...

Notice the above statements..

1. Upon their foreheads
2. In their hands

Upon--->ink tattoo?
IN------>chip?

Also, pay attention to last statement.....

THEY LIVE AND REIGN WITH CHRIST 1000 YEARS WHICH IS INDICATIVE OF BEING RESURRECTED---ONLY 1 RESURRECTION OF THE SAVED--->If it is preeminent and occurs before the mark of the beast then when do they get resurrected seeing how there is only 1?

If you are lost you will fall into the deception and take the mark and burn forever
If you are truly saved you will not take it and loose your head or be hidden till Christ comes for the elect at the 7th trump.
 
P

phil112

Guest
#10
This book was revealed to John while he was in the spirit. This is not talking about a physical, literal mark, anymore than the two witnesses, that lie dead in the street, are fleshly people.
 
Dec 18, 2013
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#11
How close to that part of the prophecy are we?

I suppose many of the other crazy signs that should be pretty noticeable must pass first so we aren't close enough that we should be in fear. However I suppose one can never be far away enough lol.

EDIT: and I also beleive the Two Witnesses is literal, they will return to Earth and bear witness.
 
B

biscuit

Guest
#12
There has been such a lot of coverage stories, however some are somewhat fairly tale stuff, Some are just plain stupid made up junk that a child of 3 would make up, some are very interesting but unbelievable, and some say we are now close to the real truth, Some say it will be a chip, some say its not the chip. So how near are we. that we going to see the reality of the Marking of the beast? and what are we going to do?

Some say very soon, some will say, how can we predict such thing, some will say they can't be bothered hearing about all this stuff, some will say, it will come when it comes. So when do we start to prepare for such event? And will we accept the mark of the beast? We can say no, but we will be forced to receive it.

Revelations 13: 16 "It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads,"

Revelations 13: 18 "This calls for wisdom. Let the person who has insight calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man. That number is 666.

[video]http://nyxstory.wordpress.com/the-mark-666/[/video]
Simply put: We pre-tribs (rapture) are not worrying about it because we will be with Jesus.:)
 
Jan 6, 2014
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#13
I am a post trib second cominger and I do not fear anything in this world, because my God is my mighty fortress. I fear God, I do not fear man or satan.
 
Y

Yudahkid12

Guest
#14
Simply put: We pre-tribs (rapture) are not worrying about it because we will be with Jesus.:)

Shalam to all who seek truth and understanding. There have been many articles, essays, and books written about the origin of the rapture teaching. I ask that you please take the time to read the History behind the Rapture doctrine, how it got started who started and then move on to part 2 to gain a full understanding of this False doctrine.



The History Behind The Rapture Doctrine

The "Rapture" teaching was not taught by the early Church, it was not taught by Church of the first centuries, it was not taught by the Reformers, it was not taught by anyone (except a couple of Roman Catholic theologians) until about the year 1830. At the time of the Reformation, the early Protestants widely held and were convinced the Pope was the supreme individual embodiment and personification of the spirit of antichrist, and the Roman Church, the Harlot System of Revelation seventeen. This understanding was responsible for bringing millions of believers out of the Roman Catholic religious system. This new scheme of prophetic interpretation became known as*futurism.*It was a Jesuit priest named*Francisco Ribera*who, in the days of the Reformation, first taught that all the events in the book of Revelation were to take place literally during the three and a half years reign of the antichrist way down at the end of the age. Thus, Ribera laid the foundation of a system of prophetic interpretation of which the*secret rapture*has now become an integral part.


Futurism

Francisco Ribera*(1537-1591) was a Jesuit doctor of theology, born in Spain, who began writing a lengthy commentary in 1585 on the book of Revelation (Apocalypse) titled*In*Sacrum Beati Ioannis Apostoli, & Evangelistiae Apocalypsin Commentarij, and published it about the year 1590. He died in 1591 at the age of fifty-four, so he was not able to expand on his work or write any other commentaries on Revelation. In order to remove the*Catholic Church*from consideration as the antichrist power, Ribera proposed that the first few chapters of the Apocalypse applied to ancient pagan Rome, and the rest he limited to a yet future period of 3 1/2 literal years, immediately prior to the second coming. During that time, the Roman Catholic Church would have fallen away from the pope into apostasy. Then, he proposed,*the*antichrist, a*single*individual, would:persecute and blaspheme the saints of God.Rebuild the temple in Jerusalem.Abolish the Christian religion.Deny Jesus Christ.Be received by the Jews.Pretend to be God.Kill the two witnesses of God.Conquer the world.
(So, according to Ribera, the 1260 days and 42 months and 3 1/2 times of prophecy were not 1260 years, but a literal 3 1/2 years, and therefore none of the book of Revelation had any application to the middle ages or the papacy, but to the future, to a period immediately prior to the second coming, hence the name*Futurism)

Manuel De Lacunza (1731–1801)




Manuel De Lacunza*(1731–1801), a Jesuit from Chile, wrote a manuscript in Spanish titled*La Venida del Mesías en Gloria y Magestad*("The Coming of the Messiah in Glory and Majesty"), under the pen name of*Juan Josafa Rabbi BenEzra*about 1791. Lacunza wrote under an assumed Jewish name to obscure the fact that he was a Catholic, in order to give his book better acceptance in Protestantism, his intended audience. Also an advocate of Futurism, Lacunza was deliberately attempting to take the pressure off the papacy by proposing that the Antichrist was still off in the future. His manuscript was published in London, Spain, Mexico and Paris between 1811 and 1826.

Edward Irving (1792-1834)

Edward Irving*(1792-1834), a Scottish Presbyterian and forerunner of the Pentecostal and Charismatic movements, translated Lacunza's work from Spanish into English in a book titled*The Coming of Messiah in Glory and Majesty with a Preliminary Discoursepublished in London in 1827 by L.B. Seeley & Sons, which included Irving's own lengthy preface. Irving became one of the most eloquent preachers of his time, and a leading figure of the Catholic Apostolic Church of England. In 1828 his open-air meetings in Scotland drew crowds of 10,000 people. His church in London seated one thousand people and was packed week after week with a congregation drawn from the most brilliant and influential circles of society. Irving discovered Lacunza's book and was deeply shaken by it. At this time Irving heard what he believed to be a voice from heaven commanding him to preach the*Secret Rapture of the Saints*Irving then began to hold Bible conferences throughout Scotland, Emphasizing the coming of*the Messiah*to rapture His Church. About this same time there began the emergence of a new movement which came to be known as the*Plymouth Brethren*The Brethren movement had its beginning in Dublin in 1825 when a small group of earnest men, dissatisfied with the lethargic condition that prevailed in the Protestant Church in Ireland, met for prayer and fellowship. Soon others joined the fellowship and associated groups sprang up in various places. Though the movement had its beginning at Dublin, it was Plymouth, England that became the center of their vast literature outreach, thus the name*Plymouth Brethren*became attached. Although there was interest from the start in prophetic subjects, the center of interest was on the body of Christ as an organism and the spiritual unity of Christ of all believers in reaction to the deadness of formalism of the organized church systems and the ecclesiastical hierarchy. A man by the name of*John Nelson Darbywas the leading spirit among the Plymouth Brethren from 1830 onward. Darby was from a prosperous Irish family, was educated as a lawyer, took high honors at Dublin University, then turned aside, to his father's chagrin, to become a minister.

Margaret McDonald, a 15 year old Scottish girl, and member of Edward Irving's congregation, had visions in early 1830 that included a Secret Rapture of believers before the appearance of the Antichrist. She informed Irving of her visions by letter. Irving then attended the prophecy conferences that began in Dublin Ireland in 1830 at Powerscourt Castle, where he promoted*bothFuturism*and a*Secret Rapture.

John Nelson Darby (1800–1882),

John Nelson Darby*(1800–1882), Irving and Darby were contemporaries, though associated with different spiritual movements. Another series of meetings were in progress at this time.*A Church of Ireland clergyman, later with the Plymouth Brethren, also promoted Futurism and a secret rapture. Darby attended the series of meetings on Bible Prophecy that began in 1830 at Powerscourt, Ireland, and at these conferences Darby apparently learned about the secret rapture as revealed by vision to Margaret McDonald, and promoted by Edward Irving, and he soon visited Margaret MacDonald at her home in Port Glasgow, Scotland. Darby later visited America several times between 1859 and 1874, where his Futurist theology was readily accepted. His writings on biblical subjects number over 30 volumes of 600 pages each. Darby developed and organized*"futurism*into a system of prophetic teaching called*"dispensationalism."*Darby's biographers refer to him as*"the father of dispensationalism*And the crown jewel in the kingdom of dispensationalism is, of course, the so-called*SECRET RAPTURE*Darby, called the 'father of dispensationalism', was responsible for the widespread dissemination of the new and novel pretribulation doctrine beginning around 1830 through his ministry in the Plymouth Brethern movement. The doctrine soon spread to America and was widely popularized by the Scofield Reference Bible.


Cyrus Ingerson Scofield (1843-1921)

The*Secret Rapture*teaching was introduced into the United States and Canada in the 1860's and 1870's though there is some indication that it may have been taught as early as the 1840's. Darby himself visited the United States six times. The new teaching was spreading. A Congregationalist preacher by the name ofC.I. Scofield*came under the influence of Darby and the Plymouth Brethren.*The Scofield Reference Bible*was destined to have a tremendous impact upon the beliefs of may, when, three million copies were published in the first 50 years. Through this Bible, Scofield carried the teaching of*the Secret Rapture*into the very heart of evangelism. Some ignorant souls look on the notes in this Bible as the Word of God itself. I do not doubt for one instant that many who read these lines have been influenced somewhere in their spiritual lives by the footnotes in the Scofield Bible. Scofield greatly influenced by the writings of J. N. Darby, incorporated Futurism in the notes of his*Scofield Reference Bible. First published by Oxford University Press in 1909, one million copies were printed by 1930. The*Scofield Biblewas instrumental in firmly establishing the Jesuit inspired Futurist interpretation in the Protestant Bible schools of the United States in the 20th century.

1909 edition of the Scofield Reference Bible online,

Source: 1909 edition of the Scofield Reference Bible Footnote 1 on page 1278 (1272) scripture they use for the pre-tribulation rapture.

Source: 1909 edition of the Scofield Reference Bible Footnote 2 on page 1340 (1334) scriptures they use for the pre-tribulation rapture.



Quotes regarding the origin of the*Rapture theory

John Walvoord:*"any careful student of Darby soon discovers that he did not get his eschatological views from men, but rather from his doctrine of the church as the body of Christ, a concept no one claims was revealed supernaturally to Irving or Macdonald.*Darby's views undoubtedly were gradually formed, but they were theologically and biblically based rather than derived from Irving's pre-Pentecostal group". (Walvoord, The Blessed Hope and the Tribulation, p. 47.)

F. F. Bruce:*well known Plymouth Brethren historian and theologian says: "Where did he Darby get it? The reviewer’s answer would be that it was in the air in the 1820s and 1830s among eager students of unfulfilled prophecy". (Book Review of The Unbelievable Pre-Trib Origin in The Evangelical Quarterly, (Vol. XLVII, No. 1).*

E. R. Sandeen:*"Darby introduced into discussion at Powerscourt (1833) the ideas of a secret rapture of the church and of a parenthesis in prophetic fulfillment between the sixty-ninth and seventieth weeks of Daniel. These two concepts constituted the basic tenets of the system of theology since referred to as dispensationalism" (E.R. Sandeen, The Roots of Fundamentalism 1800-1930, University of Chicago Press, 1970)*

A. W. Tozer:*“Here is a doctrine that was not known or taught until the beginning of this century and it is already causing splits in churches.”



Conclusion

The rapture doctrine, It began as*a Roman Catholic invention.*The Jesuit priest*Ribera's*writings influenced the Jesuit priest*Lacunza,*Lacunza influenced*Irving,Irving influenced*Darby,*Darby influenced*Scofield,Scofield and Darby influenced*D. L. Moody,*and Moody influenced*the Pentecostal Movement.*When the Pentecostal movement began at the turn of the century, and the Assemblies of God held their first general council in 1914 in Hot Springs, Arkansas, they were a small movement and didn't have their own publishing house. They needed Sunday School and study materials for their churches so where do you suppose they got it? They bought it from*Moody Press*and had their own cover stitched on it! So what do you think the Assemblies of God people believed? They believed what Moody Bible Institute taught! This had its impact on Pentecostal theology, because in the early years there were practically no pre-millenialists in the Pentecostal movement. Most of the ministers in those early days came from Presbyterian, Methodist, or other historic denominations men who, being baptized in the Holy Spirit and leaving their denominations, joined themselves to the Assemblies of God or one of the other emerging Pentecostal denominations. That is how the Pentecostal movement became influenced and saturated with the*'Secret Rapture'*doctrine by a direct chain right back to*THE ROMAN CHURCH."
 
Feb 23, 2013
571
10
0
#16
Shalam to all who seek truth and understanding. There have been many articles, essays, and books written about the origin of the rapture teaching. I ask that you please take the time to read the History behind the Rapture doctrine, how it got started who started and then move on to part 2 to gain a full understanding of this False doctrine.



The History Behind The Rapture Doctrine

The "Rapture" teaching was not taught by the early Church, it was not taught by Church of the first centuries, it was not taught by the Reformers, it was not taught by anyone (except a couple of Roman Catholic theologians) until about the year 1830. At the time of the Reformation, the early Protestants widely held and were convinced the Pope was the supreme individual embodiment and personification of the spirit of antichrist, and the Roman Church, the Harlot System of Revelation seventeen. This understanding was responsible for bringing millions of believers out of the Roman Catholic religious system. This new scheme of prophetic interpretation became known as*futurism.*It was a Jesuit priest named*Francisco Ribera*who, in the days of the Reformation, first taught that all the events in the book of Revelation were to take place literally during the three and a half years reign of the antichrist way down at the end of the age. Thus, Ribera laid the foundation of a system of prophetic interpretation of which the*secret rapture*has now become an integral part.


Futurism

Francisco Ribera*(1537-1591) was a Jesuit doctor of theology, born in Spain, who began writing a lengthy commentary in 1585 on the book of Revelation (Apocalypse) titled*In*Sacrum Beati Ioannis Apostoli, & Evangelistiae Apocalypsin Commentarij, and published it about the year 1590. He died in 1591 at the age of fifty-four, so he was not able to expand on his work or write any other commentaries on Revelation. In order to remove the*Catholic Church*from consideration as the antichrist power, Ribera proposed that the first few chapters of the Apocalypse applied to ancient pagan Rome, and the rest he limited to a yet future period of 3 1/2 literal years, immediately prior to the second coming. During that time, the Roman Catholic Church would have fallen away from the pope into apostasy. Then, he proposed,*the*antichrist, a*single*individual, would:persecute and blaspheme the saints of God.Rebuild the temple in Jerusalem.Abolish the Christian religion.Deny Jesus Christ.Be received by the Jews.Pretend to be God.Kill the two witnesses of God.Conquer the world.
(So, according to Ribera, the 1260 days and 42 months and 3 1/2 times of prophecy were not 1260 years, but a literal 3 1/2 years, and therefore none of the book of Revelation had any application to the middle ages or the papacy, but to the future, to a period immediately prior to the second coming, hence the name*Futurism)

Manuel De Lacunza (1731–1801)




Manuel De Lacunza*(1731–1801), a Jesuit from Chile, wrote a manuscript in Spanish titled*La Venida del Mesías en Gloria y Magestad*("The Coming of the Messiah in Glory and Majesty"), under the pen name of*Juan Josafa Rabbi BenEzra*about 1791. Lacunza wrote under an assumed Jewish name to obscure the fact that he was a Catholic, in order to give his book better acceptance in Protestantism, his intended audience. Also an advocate of Futurism, Lacunza was deliberately attempting to take the pressure off the papacy by proposing that the Antichrist was still off in the future. His manuscript was published in London, Spain, Mexico and Paris between 1811 and 1826.

Edward Irving (1792-1834)

Edward Irving*(1792-1834), a Scottish Presbyterian and forerunner of the Pentecostal and Charismatic movements, translated Lacunza's work from Spanish into English in a book titled*The Coming of Messiah in Glory and Majesty with a Preliminary Discoursepublished in London in 1827 by L.B. Seeley & Sons, which included Irving's own lengthy preface. Irving became one of the most eloquent preachers of his time, and a leading figure of the Catholic Apostolic Church of England. In 1828 his open-air meetings in Scotland drew crowds of 10,000 people. His church in London seated one thousand people and was packed week after week with a congregation drawn from the most brilliant and influential circles of society. Irving discovered Lacunza's book and was deeply shaken by it. At this time Irving heard what he believed to be a voice from heaven commanding him to preach the*Secret Rapture of the Saints*Irving then began to hold Bible conferences throughout Scotland, Emphasizing the coming of*the Messiah*to rapture His Church. About this same time there began the emergence of a new movement which came to be known as the*Plymouth Brethren*The Brethren movement had its beginning in Dublin in 1825 when a small group of earnest men, dissatisfied with the lethargic condition that prevailed in the Protestant Church in Ireland, met for prayer and fellowship. Soon others joined the fellowship and associated groups sprang up in various places. Though the movement had its beginning at Dublin, it was Plymouth, England that became the center of their vast literature outreach, thus the name*Plymouth Brethren*became attached. Although there was interest from the start in prophetic subjects, the center of interest was on the body of Christ as an organism and the spiritual unity of Christ of all believers in reaction to the deadness of formalism of the organized church systems and the ecclesiastical hierarchy. A man by the name of*John Nelson Darbywas the leading spirit among the Plymouth Brethren from 1830 onward. Darby was from a prosperous Irish family, was educated as a lawyer, took high honors at Dublin University, then turned aside, to his father's chagrin, to become a minister.

Margaret McDonald, a 15 year old Scottish girl, and member of Edward Irving's congregation, had visions in early 1830 that included a Secret Rapture of believers before the appearance of the Antichrist. She informed Irving of her visions by letter. Irving then attended the prophecy conferences that began in Dublin Ireland in 1830 at Powerscourt Castle, where he promoted*bothFuturism*and a*Secret Rapture.

John Nelson Darby (1800–1882),

John Nelson Darby*(1800–1882), Irving and Darby were contemporaries, though associated with different spiritual movements. Another series of meetings were in progress at this time.*A Church of Ireland clergyman, later with the Plymouth Brethren, also promoted Futurism and a secret rapture. Darby attended the series of meetings on Bible Prophecy that began in 1830 at Powerscourt, Ireland, and at these conferences Darby apparently learned about the secret rapture as revealed by vision to Margaret McDonald, and promoted by Edward Irving, and he soon visited Margaret MacDonald at her home in Port Glasgow, Scotland. Darby later visited America several times between 1859 and 1874, where his Futurist theology was readily accepted. His writings on biblical subjects number over 30 volumes of 600 pages each. Darby developed and organized*"futurism*into a system of prophetic teaching called*"dispensationalism."*Darby's biographers refer to him as*"the father of dispensationalism*And the crown jewel in the kingdom of dispensationalism is, of course, the so-called*SECRET RAPTURE*Darby, called the 'father of dispensationalism', was responsible for the widespread dissemination of the new and novel pretribulation doctrine beginning around 1830 through his ministry in the Plymouth Brethern movement. The doctrine soon spread to America and was widely popularized by the Scofield Reference Bible.


Cyrus Ingerson Scofield (1843-1921)

The*Secret Rapture*teaching was introduced into the United States and Canada in the 1860's and 1870's though there is some indication that it may have been taught as early as the 1840's. Darby himself visited the United States six times. The new teaching was spreading. A Congregationalist preacher by the name ofC.I. Scofield*came under the influence of Darby and the Plymouth Brethren.*The Scofield Reference Bible*was destined to have a tremendous impact upon the beliefs of may, when, three million copies were published in the first 50 years. Through this Bible, Scofield carried the teaching of*the Secret Rapture*into the very heart of evangelism. Some ignorant souls look on the notes in this Bible as the Word of God itself. I do not doubt for one instant that many who read these lines have been influenced somewhere in their spiritual lives by the footnotes in the Scofield Bible. Scofield greatly influenced by the writings of J. N. Darby, incorporated Futurism in the notes of his*Scofield Reference Bible. First published by Oxford University Press in 1909, one million copies were printed by 1930. The*Scofield Biblewas instrumental in firmly establishing the Jesuit inspired Futurist interpretation in the Protestant Bible schools of the United States in the 20th century.

1909 edition of the Scofield Reference Bible online,

Source: 1909 edition of the Scofield Reference Bible Footnote 1 on page 1278 (1272) scripture they use for the pre-tribulation rapture.

Source: 1909 edition of the Scofield Reference Bible Footnote 2 on page 1340 (1334) scriptures they use for the pre-tribulation rapture.



Quotes regarding the origin of the*Rapture theory

John Walvoord:*"any careful student of Darby soon discovers that he did not get his eschatological views from men, but rather from his doctrine of the church as the body of Christ, a concept no one claims was revealed supernaturally to Irving or Macdonald.*Darby's views undoubtedly were gradually formed, but they were theologically and biblically based rather than derived from Irving's pre-Pentecostal group". (Walvoord, The Blessed Hope and the Tribulation, p. 47.)

F. F. Bruce:*well known Plymouth Brethren historian and theologian says: "Where did he Darby get it? The reviewer’s answer would be that it was in the air in the 1820s and 1830s among eager students of unfulfilled prophecy". (Book Review of The Unbelievable Pre-Trib Origin in The Evangelical Quarterly, (Vol. XLVII, No. 1).*

E. R. Sandeen:*"Darby introduced into discussion at Powerscourt (1833) the ideas of a secret rapture of the church and of a parenthesis in prophetic fulfillment between the sixty-ninth and seventieth weeks of Daniel. These two concepts constituted the basic tenets of the system of theology since referred to as dispensationalism" (E.R. Sandeen, The Roots of Fundamentalism 1800-1930, University of Chicago Press, 1970)*

A. W. Tozer:*“Here is a doctrine that was not known or taught until the beginning of this century and it is already causing splits in churches.”



Conclusion

The rapture doctrine, It began as*a Roman Catholic invention.*The Jesuit priest*Ribera's*writings influenced the Jesuit priest*Lacunza,*Lacunza influenced*Irving,Irving influenced*Darby,*Darby influenced*Scofield,Scofield and Darby influenced*D. L. Moody,*and Moody influenced*the Pentecostal Movement.*When the Pentecostal movement began at the turn of the century, and the Assemblies of God held their first general council in 1914 in Hot Springs, Arkansas, they were a small movement and didn't have their own publishing house. They needed Sunday School and study materials for their churches so where do you suppose they got it? They bought it from*Moody Press*and had their own cover stitched on it! So what do you think the Assemblies of God people believed? They believed what Moody Bible Institute taught! This had its impact on Pentecostal theology, because in the early years there were practically no pre-millenialists in the Pentecostal movement. Most of the ministers in those early days came from Presbyterian, Methodist, or other historic denominations men who, being baptized in the Holy Spirit and leaving their denominations, joined themselves to the Assemblies of God or one of the other emerging Pentecostal denominations. That is how the Pentecostal movement became influenced and saturated with the*'Secret Rapture'*doctrine by a direct chain right back to*THE ROMAN CHURCH."
sigh.... honestly this again... the rapture is in the bible many times it is spoken of how we would be taken but lets not turn this thread into a rapture debate and keep it to its intended purpose besides debating about the rapture is useless because everyone thinks they know the truth. its a flat out i am right u are wrong and thats that discussion i dont recomend it
 
Y

Yudahkid12

Guest
#17
sigh.... honestly this again... the rapture is in the bible many times it is spoken of how we would be taken but lets not turn this thread into a rapture debate and keep it to its intended purpose besides debating about the rapture is useless because everyone thinks they know the truth. its a flat out i am right u are wrong and thats that discussion i dont recomend it
Agreed :) that is a sticky subject
 
B

biscuit

Guest
#18
Shalam to all who seek truth and understanding. There have been many articles, essays, and books written about the origin of the rapture teaching. I ask that you please take the time to read the History behind the Rapture doctrine, how it got started who started and then move on to part 2 to gain a full understanding of this False doctrine.



The History Behind The Rapture Doctrine

The "Rapture" teaching was not taught by the early Church, it was not taught by Church of the first centuries, it was not taught by the Reformers, it was not taught by anyone (except a couple of Roman Catholic theologians) until about the year 1830. At the time of the Reformation, the early Protestants widely held and were convinced the Pope was the supreme individual embodiment and personification of the spirit of antichrist, and the Roman Church, the Harlot System of Revelation seventeen. This understanding was responsible for bringing millions of believers out of the Roman Catholic religious system. This new scheme of prophetic interpretation became known as*futurism.*It was a Jesuit priest named*Francisco Ribera*who, in the days of the Reformation, first taught that all the events in the book of Revelation were to take place literally during the three and a half years reign of the antichrist way down at the end of the age. Thus, Ribera laid the foundation of a system of prophetic interpretation of which the*secret rapture*has now become an integral part.


Futurism

Francisco Ribera*(1537-1591) was a Jesuit doctor of theology, born in Spain, who began writing a lengthy commentary in 1585 on the book of Revelation (Apocalypse) titled*In*Sacrum Beati Ioannis Apostoli, & Evangelistiae Apocalypsin Commentarij, and published it about the year 1590. He died in 1591 at the age of fifty-four, so he was not able to expand on his work or write any other commentaries on Revelation. In order to remove the*Catholic Church*from consideration as the antichrist power, Ribera proposed that the first few chapters of the Apocalypse applied to ancient pagan Rome, and the rest he limited to a yet future period of 3 1/2 literal years, immediately prior to the second coming. During that time, the Roman Catholic Church would have fallen away from the pope into apostasy. Then, he proposed,*the*antichrist, a*single*individual, would:persecute and blaspheme the saints of God.Rebuild the temple in Jerusalem.Abolish the Christian religion.Deny Jesus Christ.Be received by the Jews.Pretend to be God.Kill the two witnesses of God.Conquer the world.
(So, according to Ribera, the 1260 days and 42 months and 3 1/2 times of prophecy were not 1260 years, but a literal 3 1/2 years, and therefore none of the book of Revelation had any application to the middle ages or the papacy, but to the future, to a period immediately prior to the second coming, hence the name*Futurism)

Manuel De Lacunza (1731–1801)




Manuel De Lacunza*(1731–1801), a Jesuit from Chile, wrote a manuscript in Spanish titled*La Venida del Mesías en Gloria y Magestad*("The Coming of the Messiah in Glory and Majesty"), under the pen name of*Juan Josafa Rabbi BenEzra*about 1791. Lacunza wrote under an assumed Jewish name to obscure the fact that he was a Catholic, in order to give his book better acceptance in Protestantism, his intended audience. Also an advocate of Futurism, Lacunza was deliberately attempting to take the pressure off the papacy by proposing that the Antichrist was still off in the future. His manuscript was published in London, Spain, Mexico and Paris between 1811 and 1826.

Edward Irving (1792-1834)

Edward Irving*(1792-1834), a Scottish Presbyterian and forerunner of the Pentecostal and Charismatic movements, translated Lacunza's work from Spanish into English in a book titled*The Coming of Messiah in Glory and Majesty with a Preliminary Discoursepublished in London in 1827 by L.B. Seeley & Sons, which included Irving's own lengthy preface. Irving became one of the most eloquent preachers of his time, and a leading figure of the Catholic Apostolic Church of England. In 1828 his open-air meetings in Scotland drew crowds of 10,000 people. His church in London seated one thousand people and was packed week after week with a congregation drawn from the most brilliant and influential circles of society. Irving discovered Lacunza's book and was deeply shaken by it. At this time Irving heard what he believed to be a voice from heaven commanding him to preach the*Secret Rapture of the Saints*Irving then began to hold Bible conferences throughout Scotland, Emphasizing the coming of*the Messiah*to rapture His Church. About this same time there began the emergence of a new movement which came to be known as the*Plymouth Brethren*The Brethren movement had its beginning in Dublin in 1825 when a small group of earnest men, dissatisfied with the lethargic condition that prevailed in the Protestant Church in Ireland, met for prayer and fellowship. Soon others joined the fellowship and associated groups sprang up in various places. Though the movement had its beginning at Dublin, it was Plymouth, England that became the center of their vast literature outreach, thus the name*Plymouth Brethren*became attached. Although there was interest from the start in prophetic subjects, the center of interest was on the body of Christ as an organism and the spiritual unity of Christ of all believers in reaction to the deadness of formalism of the organized church systems and the ecclesiastical hierarchy. A man by the name of*John Nelson Darbywas the leading spirit among the Plymouth Brethren from 1830 onward. Darby was from a prosperous Irish family, was educated as a lawyer, took high honors at Dublin University, then turned aside, to his father's chagrin, to become a minister.

Margaret McDonald, a 15 year old Scottish girl, and member of Edward Irving's congregation, had visions in early 1830 that included a Secret Rapture of believers before the appearance of the Antichrist. She informed Irving of her visions by letter. Irving then attended the prophecy conferences that began in Dublin Ireland in 1830 at Powerscourt Castle, where he promoted*bothFuturism*and a*Secret Rapture.

John Nelson Darby (1800–1882),

John Nelson Darby*(1800–1882), Irving and Darby were contemporaries, though associated with different spiritual movements. Another series of meetings were in progress at this time.*A Church of Ireland clergyman, later with the Plymouth Brethren, also promoted Futurism and a secret rapture. Darby attended the series of meetings on Bible Prophecy that began in 1830 at Powerscourt, Ireland, and at these conferences Darby apparently learned about the secret rapture as revealed by vision to Margaret McDonald, and promoted by Edward Irving, and he soon visited Margaret MacDonald at her home in Port Glasgow, Scotland. Darby later visited America several times between 1859 and 1874, where his Futurist theology was readily accepted. His writings on biblical subjects number over 30 volumes of 600 pages each. Darby developed and organized*"futurism*into a system of prophetic teaching called*"dispensationalism."*Darby's biographers refer to him as*"the father of dispensationalism*And the crown jewel in the kingdom of dispensationalism is, of course, the so-called*SECRET RAPTURE*Darby, called the 'father of dispensationalism', was responsible for the widespread dissemination of the new and novel pretribulation doctrine beginning around 1830 through his ministry in the Plymouth Brethern movement. The doctrine soon spread to America and was widely popularized by the Scofield Reference Bible.


Cyrus Ingerson Scofield (1843-1921)

The*Secret Rapture*teaching was introduced into the United States and Canada in the 1860's and 1870's though there is some indication that it may have been taught as early as the 1840's. Darby himself visited the United States six times. The new teaching was spreading. A Congregationalist preacher by the name ofC.I. Scofield*came under the influence of Darby and the Plymouth Brethren.*The Scofield Reference Bible*was destined to have a tremendous impact upon the beliefs of may, when, three million copies were published in the first 50 years. Through this Bible, Scofield carried the teaching of*the Secret Rapture*into the very heart of evangelism. Some ignorant souls look on the notes in this Bible as the Word of God itself. I do not doubt for one instant that many who read these lines have been influenced somewhere in their spiritual lives by the footnotes in the Scofield Bible. Scofield greatly influenced by the writings of J. N. Darby, incorporated Futurism in the notes of his*Scofield Reference Bible. First published by Oxford University Press in 1909, one million copies were printed by 1930. The*Scofield Biblewas instrumental in firmly establishing the Jesuit inspired Futurist interpretation in the Protestant Bible schools of the United States in the 20th century.

1909 edition of the Scofield Reference Bible online,

Source: 1909 edition of the Scofield Reference Bible Footnote 1 on page 1278 (1272) scripture they use for the pre-tribulation rapture.

Source: 1909 edition of the Scofield Reference Bible Footnote 2 on page 1340 (1334) scriptures they use for the pre-tribulation rapture.



Quotes regarding the origin of the*Rapture theory

John Walvoord:*"any careful student of Darby soon discovers that he did not get his eschatological views from men, but rather from his doctrine of the church as the body of Christ, a concept no one claims was revealed supernaturally to Irving or Macdonald.*Darby's views undoubtedly were gradually formed, but they were theologically and biblically based rather than derived from Irving's pre-Pentecostal group". (Walvoord, The Blessed Hope and the Tribulation, p. 47.)

F. F. Bruce:*well known Plymouth Brethren historian and theologian says: "Where did he Darby get it? The reviewer’s answer would be that it was in the air in the 1820s and 1830s among eager students of unfulfilled prophecy". (Book Review of The Unbelievable Pre-Trib Origin in The Evangelical Quarterly, (Vol. XLVII, No. 1).*

E. R. Sandeen:*"Darby introduced into discussion at Powerscourt (1833) the ideas of a secret rapture of the church and of a parenthesis in prophetic fulfillment between the sixty-ninth and seventieth weeks of Daniel. These two concepts constituted the basic tenets of the system of theology since referred to as dispensationalism" (E.R. Sandeen, The Roots of Fundamentalism 1800-1930, University of Chicago Press, 1970)*

A. W. Tozer:*“Here is a doctrine that was not known or taught until the beginning of this century and it is already causing splits in churches.”



Conclusion

The rapture doctrine, It began as*a Roman Catholic invention.*The Jesuit priest*Ribera's*writings influenced the Jesuit priest*Lacunza,*Lacunza influenced*Irving,Irving influenced*Darby,*Darby influenced*Scofield,Scofield and Darby influenced*D. L. Moody,*and Moody influenced*the Pentecostal Movement.*When the Pentecostal movement began at the turn of the century, and the Assemblies of God held their first general council in 1914 in Hot Springs, Arkansas, they were a small movement and didn't have their own publishing house. They needed Sunday School and study materials for their churches so where do you suppose they got it? They bought it from*Moody Press*and had their own cover stitched on it! So what do you think the Assemblies of God people believed? They believed what Moody Bible Institute taught! This had its impact on Pentecostal theology, because in the early years there were practically no pre-millenialists in the Pentecostal movement. Most of the ministers in those early days came from Presbyterian, Methodist, or other historic denominations men who, being baptized in the Holy Spirit and leaving their denominations, joined themselves to the Assemblies of God or one of the other emerging Pentecostal denominations. That is how the Pentecostal movement became influenced and saturated with the*'Secret Rapture'*doctrine by a direct chain right back to*THE ROMAN CHURCH."
My belief in the pre-trib rapture is from the Book of Revelation and Jesus Christ. I do not follow man's opinions of the Bible. The problem isn't the bible, it's man's false teachings.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,706
3,650
113
#19
666=12*6*4/x
X=0.4324324324324324324

so it's pretty close
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,661
13,127
113
#20
This book was revealed to John while he was in the spirit. This is not talking about a physical, literal mark, anymore than the two witnesses, that lie dead in the street, are fleshly people.
not everything in Revelation is simply symbolic. much of it will literally take place.
a literal wormwood will fall into the literal ocean and destroy literally 1/3 of the world's seagoing vessels and literally​ 1/3 of the creatures in the sea.
the plagues the two witnesses will call down on the earth will be every bit as real as those in Egypt.

i think it's a mistake to "spiritualize" the whole testimony.