Hellfire is real

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starfield

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2009
3,393
58
48
#21
Actually no. I don't think everyone goes to heaven at all. I believe anyone who, in your opinion goes to hell, goes to the grave and never wakes up.
Well, your ideology is contrary to the scriptures. Bodies will not remain in the grave. There will be a resurrection of the dead at the second coming of Christ in which believers will be raised to everlasting life and unbelievers, to eternal damnation in the lake of fire.

"Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation." (John 5:28-29)

"And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust." (Acts 24:15)


Again do a word study on hell and you see that the concept of eternal torment is not true at all.
Eternal torment is consistent with the righteous character of God. God is merciful and loving but that is not His sole attribute, He's a wrathful God who will execute righteous judgment upon reprobates.

"And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal." (Matthew 25:46)


"And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever." (Revelation 20:10)

"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." (Revelation 21:8)


The second death means being cast into the lake of fire, not cessation of existence or annihilation.
 

starfield

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2009
3,393
58
48
#22
Jesus Christ was speaking to his disciples in the present of the Pharisees and scribes prior to the account at Luke 16:19-31. The Pharisees sneered with contempt at Jesus because they reckoned that they, as the religious rulers, were the only ones entitled to the bosom position of Abraham. In their eyes, the common people did not come into the picture at all. Those rulers said to Jesus in an earlier encounter with him: “We are Abraham’s offspring,” and again: “Our father is Abraham,” and yet again: “We have one Father, God.”-John 8:33, 39, 41.

From this it is evident that the Pharisees considered that Abraham represented God. In this they were right. However, they were wrong in claiming sonship with either Abraham or God. In God’s eyes this relationship is determined, not by fleshly descent, but by one’s disposition and works. As Jesus said to them on that same occasion: “If you are Abraham’s children, do the works of Abraham,” and Jesus also said: “You are from your father the Devil, and you wish to do the desires of your father. That one was a manslayer when he began.” (John 8:39, 44) This preaching by Jesus that exposed the hypocrisy, greed and false teaching of the Jewish clergy caused a change to take place in their lives.-Matthew 15:1-9; 23.

Also, Jesus often taught a lesson by telling a story through the means of parables or illustrations. In this illustration, the rich man well pictures the Jewish clergy who were well provided for with spiritual provisions; who considered themselves children of the kingdom, clothed in purple; who were very self-righteous, wearing fine linen; and who were proud of being Abraham’s offspring. (Matthew 23:27, 28; Romans 3:1, 2; Revelation 19:8) The beggar Lazarus, whose name means “God is helper,” well pictures the Jewish common people, who were despised by the clergy, who because of neglect were spiritually sick and were hungering and thirsting for righteousness, and who appreciated their need of the Great Physician, Christ Jesus.-John 7:49; Matthew 5:6; Mark 2:17.

The death of the rich man and of Lazarus pictured a change taking place in the relative positions of these two classes. This should be no surprise to us because the Bible shows that death can be used symbolically, representing people as dying or having died though still alive, meaning thereby that a a great change in one’s life or course of action. Compare Romans 6:2, 11-13; 7:4-6; Colossians 3:3; 1 Timothy 5:6. A death, or change from former conditions, happened when Jesus fed the Lazarus class spiritually, and they thus came into the favor of the greater Abraham, Jehovah God. At the same time, the false religious leaders “died” with respect to having God’s favor. Being cast off, they suffered torments when Christ’s followers after Pentecost forcefully exposed their evil works. (Acts 7:51-57) So this illustration is not literal and does not teach that some dead persons are tormented in a literal fiery hell...
…and the resident Jehovah’s Witness rises again with heresies. Your persistent denial and twisting of God's word is appalling.
 
G

GOAC4CHRIST

Guest
#23
[h=2]Hi,
Maybe this can shade some light.

Angelica Zambrano 3rd Testimony of Heaven and Hell
[/h] Posted on January 20, 2014 by christiscoming777
This is the 3rd revelation of Heaven

and Hell that the LORD
gave to Angelica Zambrano. She was shown the beauty of Heaven and also many people who ended their lives in the everlasting torments of Hell because of various sins. She was given important warnings to the church and told of the low percentage of christians that are ready for the LORD’S RETURN.
Evangelist Angelica Zambrano lives in Ecuador in South America. It was around 12.30am at night when her near death experience & revelation of heaven and hell began (see the full video at the end of this post for more info). The ministers and brethren were all in intercessory prayer during the experience. The first thing that occurred was that angels took her from her house to a heavenly viewpoint.
THE CONDITION OF THE CHURCH – FEW ARE READY
From a heavenly viewpoint an angel said “Look you are seeing the earth. Look at all the churches and congregations of the earth. This church has 20,000 members. There is another with 10,000 members. This other church has 1000 members.” He continued to show me many congregations and then said “But there are very few people in these churches who are actually the true church.”
The angel said “I must tell you what the Father wants me to tell you”. The Archangel Michael was the one speaking to me. He said “Look at the earth. The churches are filled with sin, there is so much sin in these churches. Many of the people are spiritually dead”.
Through the angels the LORD showed me that 80% of the Evangelical Christian Church on earth will be Left Behind. They will be left behind because they are cold. Because they dont seek God’s presence. Because of their sin. Because they are discouraged. Only 20% will be caught up (Raptured) to be with Jesus, this is only for true Christians. That is why His word says `Many are called, but few are chosen’ (Matt 22,14). We are all called but we not only must be called, we must be chosen.
Let me explain what takes place inside many of the churches. There is very much religiosity. There is no loyalty to the word of God. Inside church, brothers and sisters happily praise the Lord. They rejoice, they dance and they speak in tongues. But when they get home they are completely different. They act like the devil himself. This is what takes place. People go home and speak things that hurt God’s heart. At home they dont pray, read God’s word or seek His presence. God does not want any of us to be left behind. It hurts me that 80% of the Church congregants are not ready for the Lord’s return. Because few of the churches truly demonstrate the true love of Jesus.
There were angels all around, then Jesus spoke to me, while the angels remained silent. The LORD said “Daughter my heart breaks to see how many people are discouraged. To see how many people have backslid. Tell my people to return to the old paths, to the First Love”
Church, you must encourage the believers. Tell them to seek God, to reject hypocrisy. Listen to what the LORD told me. The LORD said “Do you know which commandment my church has forgotten? Some think its love. Some think its faith. The forgotten commandment within my church is Holiness. My Word say ‘Be holy, for I am holy.’” (1Pet1,16). This is what the Lord says, we have to be holy inside and outside. We must have a pure heart, a clean heart that is filled with His presence. A heart filled with His love. A heart filled with God.
Rev 3, 15-16 “I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth. … 19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent.”
 
G

GOAC4CHRIST

Guest
#24
HELL & THE LAKE OF FIRE
Afterwards the LORD began taking me up and out of Hell. It was as if we were climbing a stairway through a dark tunnel. When we arrived at the top I looked down and saw Hell form a different viewpoint. Hell is an extremely large place. From my viewpoint I saw Hell in a central profound location and I also saw the Lake of fire They were separate. The Lake of Fire was underneath Hell. This is the way I would try to attempt to describe what I saw. I saw a large tub of fire and sulfur. Above this container I saw the shape of a doll, or a body. The tub is the Lake of Fire. After the LORD showed me the Lake of Fire we left. Rev 20, 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

SEEK & SERVE THE LORD GOD
For those that are listening or reading this testimony let me say this to you. God gave you this message because He is real! We don’t serve a god of wood. We don’t serve a dead god. We serve a living God. He said to me “I never change! I continue to be the same living God! I Am the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. I Am the God of yesterday, today and forever. I have never changed and never will.” Don’t forget we serve a great God. Seek His presence in Spirit and Truth. Don’t be hypocrites, serve Him in Spirit and in Truth. May God bless each and every one of you.
Time is running out. God requires for His Church to walk in Holiness. Every moment counts, don’t be condemned by sin. Now is the time. Accept Jesus as your LORD and Savior and serve Him wholeheartedly.
 
L

lioncub

Guest
#25
Why would Jesus make up a story about a guy suffering in hell in Luke 16 if it isn't something that really happens ?
 
G

GOAC4CHRIST

Guest
#26
Hell is Real and Heaven is also Real
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,171
6,528
113
#27
Actually no. I don't think everyone goes to heaven at all. I believe anyone who, in your opinion goes to hell, goes to the grave and never wakes up. Again do a word study on hell and you see that the concept of eternal torment is not true at all.
not for nothing but the statement.............."every knee shall bow, and every tongue confess" was not from a parable.......

wanna word study "every?"
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,171
6,528
113
#28
As I said, if this was the only mention of hell, I'd agree with you. My reasons for looking at this as I do is because the rest of scripture does not support eternal torment.
Can you find other Scripture to support John 11:35? I can't, so by your standard, I guess Jesus DIDN'T RELLY weep?
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
#29
if the soul/eternal spirit is destroyed, then damnation is not eternal............what does His Word say about eternal damnation?
If the mortal soul ceases to exist for eternity, then I would have to believe that destruction (damnation) is eternal.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
#30
Jesus spoke/taught in parables to impart eternal truths..........so why are they not to be believed?
Mat 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Mat 13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Mat 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. Mat 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
Mat 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

He spoke in parables to hid the meaning.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
#31
Why would Jesus make up a story about a guy suffering in hell in Luke 16 if it isn't something that really happens ?
Mat 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Mat 13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Mat 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
Mat 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
Mat 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,171
6,528
113
#32
Mat 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Mat 13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Mat 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. Mat 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
Mat 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

He spoke in parables to hid the meaning.
...........well, yes, and no............. is there a parable you DO NOT understand the meaning of? Lemme know, mayhaps I can help you....... :)
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,171
6,528
113
#33
If the mortal soul ceases to exist for eternity, then I would have to believe that destruction (damnation) is eternal.
..........uh, well, er.............I was not speaking of the "mortal," rather the "eternal," so.......uh, er.............. :)
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
#34
1) Let's allow the Bible to speak for itself, ok? The Bible is explicitly clear about when Jesus was speaking in parables. Over and over many times in Matthew 13 alone it is careful to tell us when he was giving a parable, but it doesn't do so in Luke 16. If you choose to believe the rich man and Lazarus was a parable, you do so, not because Luke 16 says so, but for your own theological reasons. Jesus said "There was a certain rich man," (Luke 16:19) so I have to believe the man existed or Jesus was wrong. He was no more speaking in parables in verse 19 then he was just one verse earlier in verse 18. Surely you don't think what Jesus said here about adultery was a parable, do you?

2) Names are never mentioned in the parables of Jesus. This is one consistent characteristic of his parables. Rather it be the ten virgins, the sower, the mustard see, the Good Samaritan, or any of the others, no names are mentioned in such parables. If a character is fictitious, its not necessary to give him a name, is it? But in Luke 16 names are mentioned: Abraham and Lazarus, real people. Abraham for sure, the Jews knew.

3) Jesus parables are true to life, meaning, they are based on reality, on things that actually happen. Jesus used things his disciples were familiar with to coin his parables. So he spoke about the shepherd who leaves 99 sheep to look for the lost one because there were shepherds in Israel who knew about this; he spoke about a Good Samaritan because Samaritans were real, and some did have faith like the woman at the well in John 4; he spoke about fishing because many of his disciples were fishermen. All his parables about marriage feasts, leaven fermenting flour and so forth were based on everyday things in Jewish custom. So even if the rich man and Lazarus were a parable, it still was based on something real. Take for example the Good Samaritan:

There really was a road from Jerusalem to Jericho, and that that road really was frequented by robbers. It is a historical fact, you can check this out, that the Romans built a garrison on that road to protect travelers from bandits. Jews were real, so were Samaritans, even the currency, the dinarius was real. So Jesus was no myth maker. He didn't preach fables like Alice in Wonderland. He spoke about real people and places and things. So even if Luke 16:19-31 is a parable, it is still based on something real, therefore, hell is a real place, the fire is real, and these were two real people.

The Greek word for parable is paraboli, and this ame word is translated as "allegory" (KJV) in Galatians 4:24. In this passage (Galatians 4:22-31) we are told that the relationship between Abraham, his two wives, and their sons, as well as the sending away of the one who was slave, was a paraboli, a parable; but no Christian would dare argue that the events mentioned here didn't happen. The Book of Genesis records that Ishmael did persecute Isaac, and Sarah did have her husband send Hagar and her son Ishmael away, and it does record that these were all real people. So parables were based on real life events that used to happen.

4) If hellfire isn't real, then its a false, pagan doctrine. In that case, we are to reach the ridiculous conclusion that Jesus borrowed a false doctrine and used this false doctrine to teach his disciples. Could you imagine Jesus coining an illustration in the Bible that involved mythical gods like Osiris, Anubis, Thor, or Posidon? Could you imagine Jesus putting a false doctrine in the mouth of Abraham, to make him preach about an afterlife and a place of torment that didn't exist? Why would the Son of God have to go to such lengths just to get over a moral point to his disciples?

5) Surely if this were a parable, Jesus would have explained it, or at least the disciples would have asked for an explanation as it was unlike any other parable they had heard before. The parable of the sower is explained by Jesus himself in the Bible, why would he leave us to guess and make assumptions about the meaning of this passage if it was all symbolic?

I can think of other reasons why this is literal, but why do you think it CANNOT be taken literally? Why?
OK, let's assume this is literal and let's examine it...

First point, this was directed at the Pharisees...

Luk 16:14 And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.

so it was definitely a parable...

Mat 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:

He only spoke directly to His disciples.

Now on to Luke 16...

Luk 16:19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
Luk 16:20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
Luk 16:21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
Luk 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
Luk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

Now they can SEE each other. A far off is a relative term. How far off?

Luk 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
Luk 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

A far off is still close enough to be able to talk with one another.

Luk 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
Luk 16:27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
Luk 16:28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
Luk 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

They cannot extend help to the rich man. Carefully note, if this parable is direct teaching, then we are instructed to consult Moses and the Prophets. Are you doing that? Are you living by the Laws of Moses?

Luk 16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
Luk 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

If you won't hear Moses and the Prophets, then you won't hear the One who rose from the dead.

Now lets look at a couple of issues here, we discovered in vs 23 that they can see each other. In vs 24-25 they can hear each other and speak to each other but in vs 26 we see they cannot interact. Those in Abraham's bosom cannot extend help to those in hades. OK then, here are some points to consider...

If this is not a parable but rather direct teaching then...

1) Saved mothers in heaven can see their lost children in hell being burned and tormented.

2) Saved mothers in heaven can hear their lost children in hell shrieking and screaming in the fire.

3) Saved mothers in heaven are restricted from helping their children in hell suffering horribly.

So this is your idea of the way a loving God deals with His children for ALL ETERNITY?

It is a parable and not teaching on the subject of heaven and hell.

Here is a good explanation of this parable...

The Real Meaning of The Rich Man and Lazarus by Dr. Ernest Martin
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
#35
...........well, yes, and no............. is there a parable you DO NOT understand the meaning of? Lemme know, mayhaps I can help you....... :)
Hmmm, my point was that parables are not stories to make the meaning clear to simple farm-folk, they are designed to hide the meaning from those who are not called at this time. But since you offered, how about a verse by verse explanation of Lazarus and the Rich Man.
 
Dec 29, 2013
599
6
0
#36
Hi,
Maybe this can shade some light.

Angelica Zambrano 3rd Testimony of Heaven and Hell


Posted on January 20, 2014 by christiscoming777
This is the 3rd revelation of Heaven

and Hell that the LORD
gave to Angelica Zambrano. She was shown the beauty of Heaven and also many people who ended their lives in the everlasting torments of Hell because of various sins. She was given important warnings to the church and told of the low percentage of christians that are ready for the LORD’S RETURN.
Evangelist Angelica Zambrano lives in Ecuador in South America. It was around 12.30am at night when her near death experience & revelation of heaven and hell began (see the full video at the end of this post for more info). The ministers and brethren were all in intercessory prayer during the experience. The first thing that occurred was that angels took her from her house to a heavenly viewpoint.
THE CONDITION OF THE CHURCH – FEW ARE READY
From a heavenly viewpoint an angel said “Look you are seeing the earth. Look at all the churches and congregations of the earth. This church has 20,000 members. There is another with 10,000 members. This other church has 1000 members.” He continued to show me many congregations and then said “But there are very few people in these churches who are actually the true church.”
The angel said “I must tell you what the Father wants me to tell you”. The Archangel Michael was the one speaking to me. He said “Look at the earth. The churches are filled with sin, there is so much sin in these churches. Many of the people are spiritually dead”.
Through the angels the LORD showed me that 80% of the Evangelical Christian Church on earth will be Left Behind. They will be left behind because they are cold. Because they dont seek God’s presence. Because of their sin. Because they are discouraged. Only 20% will be caught up (Raptured) to be with Jesus, this is only for true Christians. That is why His word says `Many are called, but few are chosen’ (Matt 22,14). We are all called but we not only must be called, we must be chosen.
Let me explain what takes place inside many of the churches. There is very much religiosity. There is no loyalty to the word of God. Inside church, brothers and sisters happily praise the Lord. They rejoice, they dance and they speak in tongues. But when they get home they are completely different. They act like the devil himself. This is what takes place. People go home and speak things that hurt God’s heart. At home they dont pray, read God’s word or seek His presence. God does not want any of us to be left behind. It hurts me that 80% of the Church congregants are not ready for the Lord’s return. Because few of the churches truly demonstrate the true love of Jesus.
There were angels all around, then Jesus spoke to me, while the angels remained silent. The LORD said “Daughter my heart breaks to see how many people are discouraged. To see how many people have backslid. Tell my people to return to the old paths, to the First Love”
Church, you must encourage the believers. Tell them to seek God, to reject hypocrisy. Listen to what the LORD told me. The LORD said “Do you know which commandment my church has forgotten? Some think its love. Some think its faith. The forgotten commandment within my church is Holiness. My Word say ‘Be holy, for I am holy.’” (1Pet1,16). This is what the Lord says, we have to be holy inside and outside. We must have a pure heart, a clean heart that is filled with His presence. A heart filled with His love. A heart filled with God.
Rev 3, 15-16 “I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth. … 19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent.”
These visions are not of God, these people have not been given that which was given the the apostle John on the island of Patmos.
 

TheAristocat

Senior Member
Oct 4, 2011
2,150
26
0
#37
I still run into issues with hell, like the biblical fact that spiritual beings dont have physical bodies so ... how can spiritual things feel physical pain? not sure.
I think the Bible's clear that there will be two resurrections: 1. the resurrection to eternal life and 2. the resurrection of the damned. The damned then will have both body (their physical resurrected body) and spirit destroyed after the judgment. Except possibly for a couple of exceptions, everyone not found in the Book of Life will be utterly destroyed. In my opinion.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
#38
I think the Bible's clear that there will be two resurrections: 1. the resurrection to eternal life and 2. the resurrection of the damned. The damned then will have both body (their physical resurrected body) and spirit destroyed after the judgment. Except possibly for a couple of exceptions, everyone not found in the Book of Life will be utterly destroyed. In my opinion.
Not opinion, fact!

The idea of an ever burning hell was perpetrated on the world through a book by Dante Alighieri called the Divine Comedy. It was written as satire but adopted as doctrine.
 
Dec 29, 2013
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#39
Luke 16;19-31 speaks of hell as a very real place of torment. I have never met anyone who could successfully show otherwise from the Scriptures. What are your views?
Because it has the characteristics of a parable, and occurs in a sequence of parables, it is a parable. The Bible does not tell us that "...the dead know not anything" (Eccl. 9:5), that their "...thoughts perish" (Psalm 146:4), that "...the dead...go down into silence" (Psalm 115:17), etc., and then contradict this with a literal account of two people who continue after death as thinking feeling entities. Jesus, in telling this parable did not contradict a preponderance of scripture texts which speak clearly on the state of the dead. The Old, and the New scriptures compare death to "sleep." Over and over we are told that the dead, saved and unsaved, are in a state of "sleep" until resurrection day.

The moral of the story in the rich man and Lazarus centers, not on the state of the dead, or what punishment is, but on repentance. And repentance, according to our Lord himself, includes the hearing of "...Moses and the prophets." The antinomian (anti-law) establishment does not want you to know this.
 
Dec 29, 2013
599
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#40
I think the Bible's clear that there will be two resurrections: 1. the resurrection to eternal life and 2. the resurrection of the damned. The damned then will have both body (their physical resurrected body) and spirit destroyed after the judgment. Except possibly for a couple of exceptions, everyone not found in the Book of Life will be utterly destroyed. In my opinion.
Good thinking, and remember, that in 1 Thess. 4:16-17 and 1 Cor. 15 is "..the first resurrection," it is one and the same with that described as "first" in Rev. 20:4-6. It does not occur as the dispensational futurists say, i.e., it does not occur as a "rapture" several years before the "first resurrection." If this were true that in Rev. 20:4-6 could not be the "first."