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Thread: Churches of Christ with or without instruments, which is the right way to worship?

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    Default Re: Churches of Christ with or without instruments, which is the right way to worship

    (concerning Jeroboam)

    And he walked in all the sins of his father, which he had done before him: and his heart was not perfect with the LORD his God, as the heart of David his father.
    Nevertheless for David's sake did the LORD his God give him a lamp in Jerusalem, to set up his son after him, and to establish Jerusalem:
    Because David did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD, and turned not aside from any thing that he commanded him all the days of his life, save only in the matter of Uriah the Hittite.

    (1 Kings 15:3-5)

    personally, i think that if your agenda causes you to search out reasons to curse David, or to teach blatant lies (*cough* instruments of God *cough*), then it ought to clue you in that your agenda may not be a righteous one.

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    Default Re: Churches of Christ with or without instruments, which is the right way to worship

    Always be mindful of the word "Lord". Look up the word Baal in the Hebrew dictionary and you will find the word lord in the definition. Baal is another name for Satan, just as Eve said "I have gotten a man child from the "lord".

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    Default Re: Churches of Christ with or without instruments, which is the right way to worship

    Quote Originally Posted by ob77 View Post
    Always be mindful of the word "Lord". Look up the word Baal in the Hebrew dictionary and you will find the word lord in the definition. Baal is another name for Satan, just as Eve said "I have gotten a man child from the "lord".
    That's true but people tend to believe Eve even when Paul said that she was wholly seduced and Cain was OF that wicked one.

    If god turned Israel over to WORSHIP THE STARRY HOST then who is the lord and the gods the Jews worshipped. The Jewish Encyclopedia proves what is evident: that the worship of the abandoned Jews was STAR and SERPENT worship. Amos and Acts 7 tells us some of the names of the gods they worshipped even when they called him Jehovah. They said that the calf or calves was the god that brought them out of Egypt.

    dĕus , (Gr. zeus), heaven: dévas, God; cf. Gr. dios, eudia; but not theos

    zeus God; cf. Gr. dios, eudia; but not theos, Curt
    D. In eccl. Lat., esp. the God of the Hebrews and Christians, God: “Deus summus,” Lact. 1, 1: “omnipotens,” Vulg. Gen. 17, 1

    Jer. 8:7 Yea, the stork in the heaven knoweth her appointed times; and the turtle and the crane and the swallow observe the time of their coming; but my people know not the judgment of the LORD.
    Jer. 8:8 How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the LORD is WITH US? LO, CERTAINLY IN VAIN MADE HE IT; THE PEN OF THE SCRIBES IS in vain.

    Jesus called the Scribes, HYPOCRITES and Ezekiel 33 defines hypocrites.

    Even the stork in the heavens knows her times; and the turtledove, swallow, and crane keep the time of their coming; but my people know not the ordinance of the LORD."How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie. The wise men shall be put to shame, they shall be dismayed and taken; lo, THEY HAVE REJECTED THE WORD OF THE LORD, and what wisdom is in them? Jeremiah 8:8-9 RSV

    Cyril of Alexandria, Commentary on John,

    That the Pharisees puffed up unto strange boasting,
    .......were wont to pretend that the Divine Word was with them and in them,
    .......and therefore foolishly affirmed that they had advanced to marvellous wisdom,
    .......he Spirit Itself will testify,
    .......since Christ says by the Prophet Jeremiah unto them,
    ..............How do ye say, WE are wise, and the word of the Lord is with us?
    ..............For nought to the scribes became their lying pen;
    ..............he wise men were ashamed, were dismayed and taken;
    ..............what wisdom is in them? because they rejected the word of the Lord.

    For how are they not taken rejecting the Living and Hypostatic Word of God, receiving not the faith to Him-ward, but dishonouring the Impress of God the Father, and refusing to behold His most true Form (so to say) through His God-befitting Authority and Power?

    Anyone who has read even the SCRIBE'S account of the unlawful monarchy finds a list of things that David DID ON HIS OWN and no one can say that The TRUE LORD was just plain ignorant.

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    Default Re: Churches of Christ with or without instruments, which is the right way to worship

    Even as I write one of my "investments with the lord" is being diverted because the Preacher said that God commanded the instruments used by the Levites. Scripture will show that God commanded that the Jacob-cursed Levites like the flaming swords of Eden and against David are commanded to EXECUTE the musical idolaters and BLOCK THEM OUT OF THE BOOK OF LIFE.

    The golden calf or calves represented Osiris, Isis and little Horus: they were the father, spiriit (mother) and little inferior son of the pagan triads.

    Exodus 32:4 And he received them at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.
    Exodus 32:5 And when Aaron saw it, he built an altar before it; and Aaron made proclamation, and said, To morrow is a feast to the LORD.
    Exodus 32:6 And they rose up early on the morrow, and offered burnt offerings, and brought peace offerings; and the people sat down to eat and to drink, and rose up to play.

    Ludo A. To sport, play with any thing, to practise as a pastime, amuse one's self with any thing, B. To sport, dally, wanton Esp., to play on an instrument of music, to make or compose music or song:
    A. To sport, play with any thing, to practise as a pastime, amuse one's self with any thing: .—Esp., to play on an instrument of music, to make or compose music or song: “ludere quae vellemcalamo permisit agresti,” Verg. E. 1, 10: “talia fumosi luduntur mense Decembri,” Ov. Tr. 2, 491: “quod tenerae cantent, lusit tua musa, puellae, id. Am. 3, 1, 27: “coloni Versibus incomptis ludunt,” Verg. G. 2, 386: “carmina pastorum,” id. ib. 4, 565; Suet. Ner. 3: “si quid vacui sub umbra Lusimus tecum,” Hor. C. 1, 22, 2.—
    B. To sport, dally, wanton (cf. "amorous play,"

    Empaizō , fut. To be deluded 2. euphem. in mal. part., LXXJd. 19.25.
    II. sport in or on, hôs nebros chloerais e. leimakos hêdonais E.Ba. 866 (lyr.); tois choroisin e. to sport in the dance, Ar.Th.975; tôi Luc.Lex.5

    Paig-ma , atos, to, A. play, sport, lōtos hotan . . paigmata bremē whene'er the pipe sounds its sportive strains, E.Ba.161(lyr.); “Ludia p. luras” Lyr.Alex.Adesp.37.15.
    II. 'child's play', to toiouto p. tōn logōn

    1 Cor. 10:7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.

    1 Corinthians 10.7 mēde eidōlolatrai ginesthe, kathōs tines autōn: hōsper gegraptai “Ekathisen ho laos phagein kai pein, kai anestēsan paizein.”
    Paizōpais I. properly, to play like a child, to sport, alla pepaistai metriōs hēmin, of the chorus, Ar. Th.1227. 4.play on a musical instrument,h.Ap.206: c. acc., “Pan ho kalamophthogga paizōn” dance and sing,Pi. O.1.16.

    God abandoned Israel to WORSHIP THE STARRY HOST: That includes Apollo, Abaddon or Apollyon who has been unleashed as the LEADER (or Spiritus) of the MUSES John called Sorcerers. They will be blotted out and they will be cast alive into the lake of fire.

    Consult the literature of the ages which was required to DEFINE WORDS even for children

    Aristoph. Frogs 225
    Rightly so, you busybody.
    the Muses of the fine lyre love us
    And so does horn-crested Pan, playing his reed pipe.
    And the harpist Apollo delights in us as well,
    On account of the reed, which as a bridge for his lyre

    Apollōn , ho, Apollo: Abaddon, Apollyon The name of a NUMBER
    phorm-iktēs , ou, Dor. phorm-miktas , ho, A. lyre-player, of Orpheus, Pi.P.4.176
    phorm-iktos , ē, on, A. sung TO the phormigx, kai peza kai ph. (sc. melē) S.Fr.16.

    Melos , eos, to, 2. music to which a song is set, tune, Arist.Po.1450a14;
    3. melody of an instrument,phormigxd'au phtheggoith' hieronm. ēde kaiaulos” ; “aulōnpamphōnon m.” Pi.P.12.19; Melody in a "holy place" is called SOPHISTRY and Jesus said that God HIDES from the wise or Sophists.

    Exodus 32:7 And the LORD said unto Moses, Go, get thee down; for thy people, which thou broughtest out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves:
    Exodus 32:8 They have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them: they have made them a molten calf, and have worshipped it, and have sacrificed thereunto, and said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which have brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.

    HERE IS WHAT EVERYONE COMMANDED OF THE LEVITES STANDING READY TO EXECUTE THE IDOLATERS


    Exodus 32:26 Then Moses stood in the gate of the camp, and said, Who is on the LORD’s side? let him come unto me. And all the sons of Levi gathered themselves together unto him.

    sto , a. To stand in the ranks or under arms, to fight: c. Transf., of a battle, to last, hold out, continue (a favorite expression of Livy)


    Exodus 32:27 And he said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour.
    Exodus 32:28 And the children of Levi did according to the word of Moses: and there fell of the people that day about three thousand men.
    Exodus 32:33 And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.
    Exodus 32:34 Therefore now go, lead the people unto the place of which I have spoken unto thee: behold, mine Angel shall go before thee: nevertheless in the day when I visit I will visit their sin upon them.
    Exodus 32:35 And the LORD plagued the people, because they made the calf, which Aaron made.

    THE PATTERN FOR INFILTRATING AND DIVERTING CHURCHES INTO INSTRUMENTS

    2Chronicles 29:26 And the Levites stood with the instruments of David, and the priests with the trumpets.

    sto , a. To stand in the ranks or under arms, to fight: c. Transf., of a battle, to last, hold out, continue (a favorite expression of Livy)

    The command to the Levies was to STAND IN RANK and EXECUTE any of the "brethren" who came near or into any of the "holy" places now TURNED OVER to worship the Starry host. They would be BLOTTED OUT OF THE BOOK OF LIFE.

    2Chronicles 29:27 And Hezekiah commanded to offer the burnt offering upon the altar. And when the burnt offering began, the song of the LORD began also with the trumpets, and with the instruments ordained by David king of Israel.

    QUESTION: Who ordained the INSTRUMENTS?

    Christ in Isiah 1 and Jeremiah said that God DID NOT COMMAND sacrifices or burnt offerings: He ABANDONED the Israelite to a Jebusite High Place already set up for SUN worship. Acts 7 said that:

    God PERMITTED David a TENT on Mount Zion because he could never return to Gibeon.
    But, SOLOMON Built God a HOUSE
    But, God does not live in houses built by human hands and He cannot be worshipped by the WORKS of human hands.

    Those who enagaged in musical idolatry at Mount Sinai were "blotted out of God's book of life." The Craftsmen (staff), singers and instrument players in Revelation 18 are called SORCERERS and Jesus had John say that they WILL BE CAST ALIVE into the Lake of fire.

    At least, granted that the ASSAULTED are not a CULT for staying awake to prevent the ASSAULTERS from taking down the GUARD (elders) and invited you to be executed by the Levite execution squad.

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    Default Re: Churches of Christ with or without instruments, which is the right way to worship

    Quote Originally Posted by KSublett View Post
    Even as I write one of my "investments with the lord" is being diverted because the Preacher said that God commanded the instruments used by the Levites. Scripture will show that God commanded that the Jacob-cursed Levites like the flaming swords of Eden and against David are commanded to EXECUTE the musical idolaters and BLOCK THEM OUT OF THE BOOK OF LIFE.

    The golden calf or calves represented Osiris, Isis and little Horus: they were the father, spiriit (mother) and little inferior son of the pagan triads.

    Exodus 32:4 And he received them at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.
    Exodus 32:5 And when Aaron saw it, he built an altar before it; and Aaron made proclamation, and said, To morrow is a feast to the LORD.
    Exodus 32:6 And they rose up early on the morrow, and offered burnt offerings, and brought peace offerings; and the people sat down to eat and to drink, and rose up to play.

    Ludo A. To sport, play with any thing, to practise as a pastime, amuse one's self with any thing, B. To sport, dally, wanton Esp., to play on an instrument of music, to make or compose music or song:
    A. To sport, play with any thing, to practise as a pastime, amuse one's self with any thing: .—Esp., to play on an instrument of music, to make or compose music or song: “ludere quae vellemcalamo permisit agresti,” Verg. E. 1, 10: “talia fumosi luduntur mense Decembri,” Ov. Tr. 2, 491: “quod tenerae cantent, lusit tua musa, puellae, id. Am. 3, 1, 27: “coloni Versibus incomptis ludunt,” Verg. G. 2, 386: “carmina pastorum,” id. ib. 4, 565; Suet. Ner. 3: “si quid vacui sub umbra Lusimus tecum,” Hor. C. 1, 22, 2.—
    B. To sport, dally, wanton (cf. "amorous play,"

    Empaizō , fut. To be deluded 2. euphem. in mal. part., LXXJd. 19.25.
    II. sport in or on, hôs nebros chloerais e. leimakos hêdonais E.Ba. 866 (lyr.); tois choroisin e. to sport in the dance, Ar.Th.975; tôi Luc.Lex.5

    Paig-ma , atos, to, A. play, sport, lōtos hotan . . paigmata bremē whene'er the pipe sounds its sportive strains, E.Ba.161(lyr.); “Ludia p. luras” Lyr.Alex.Adesp.37.15.
    II. 'child's play', to toiouto p. tōn logōn

    1 Cor. 10:7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.

    1 Corinthians 10.7 mēde eidōlolatrai ginesthe, kathōs tines autōn: hōsper gegraptai “Ekathisen ho laos phagein kai pein, kai anestēsan paizein.”
    Paizōpais I. properly, to play like a child, to sport, alla pepaistai metriōs hēmin, of the chorus, Ar. Th.1227. 4.play on a musical instrument,h.Ap.206: c. acc., “Pan ho kalamophthogga paizōn” dance and sing,Pi. O.1.16.

    God abandoned Israel to WORSHIP THE STARRY HOST: That includes Apollo, Abaddon or Apollyon who has been unleashed as the LEADER (or Spiritus) of the MUSES John called Sorcerers. They will be blotted out and they will be cast alive into the lake of fire.

    Consult the literature of the ages which was required to DEFINE WORDS even for children

    Aristoph. Frogs 225
    Rightly so, you busybody.
    the Muses of the fine lyre love us
    And so does horn-crested Pan, playing his reed pipe.
    And the harpist Apollo delights in us as well,
    On account of the reed, which as a bridge for his lyre

    Apollōn , ho, Apollo: Abaddon, Apollyon The name of a NUMBER
    phorm-iktēs , ou, Dor. phorm-miktas , ho, A. lyre-player, of Orpheus, Pi.P.4.176
    phorm-iktos , ē, on, A. sung TO the phormigx, kai peza kai ph. (sc. melē) S.Fr.16.

    Melos , eos, to, 2. music to which a song is set, tune, Arist.Po.1450a14;
    3. melody of an instrument,phormigxd'au phtheggoith' hieronm. ēde kaiaulos” ; “aulōnpamphōnon m.” Pi.P.12.19; Melody in a "holy place" is called SOPHISTRY and Jesus said that God HIDES from the wise or Sophists.

    Exodus 32:7 And the LORD said unto Moses, Go, get thee down; for thy people, which thou broughtest out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves:
    Exodus 32:8 They have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them: they have made them a molten calf, and have worshipped it, and have sacrificed thereunto, and said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which have brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.

    HERE IS WHAT EVERYONE COMMANDED OF THE LEVITES STANDING READY TO EXECUTE THE IDOLATERS


    Exodus 32:26 Then Moses stood in the gate of the camp, and said, Who is on the LORD’s side? let him come unto me. And all the sons of Levi gathered themselves together unto him.

    sto , a. To stand in the ranks or under arms, to fight: c. Transf., of a battle, to last, hold out, continue (a favorite expression of Livy)


    Exodus 32:27 And he said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour.
    Exodus 32:28 And the children of Levi did according to the word of Moses: and there fell of the people that day about three thousand men.
    Exodus 32:33 And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.
    Exodus 32:34 Therefore now go, lead the people unto the place of which I have spoken unto thee: behold, mine Angel shall go before thee: nevertheless in the day when I visit I will visit their sin upon them.
    Exodus 32:35 And the LORD plagued the people, because they made the calf, which Aaron made.

    THE PATTERN FOR INFILTRATING AND DIVERTING CHURCHES INTO INSTRUMENTS

    2Chronicles 29:26 And the Levites stood with the instruments of David, and the priests with the trumpets.

    sto , a. To stand in the ranks or under arms, to fight: c. Transf., of a battle, to last, hold out, continue (a favorite expression of Livy)

    The command to the Levies was to STAND IN RANK and EXECUTE any of the "brethren" who came near or into any of the "holy" places now TURNED OVER to worship the Starry host. They would be BLOTTED OUT OF THE BOOK OF LIFE.

    2Chronicles 29:27 And Hezekiah commanded to offer the burnt offering upon the altar. And when the burnt offering began, the song of the LORD began also with the trumpets, and with the instruments ordained by David king of Israel.

    QUESTION: Who ordained the INSTRUMENTS?

    Christ in Isiah 1 and Jeremiah said that God DID NOT COMMAND sacrifices or burnt offerings: He ABANDONED the Israelite to a Jebusite High Place already set up for SUN worship. Acts 7 said that:

    God PERMITTED David a TENT on Mount Zion because he could never return to Gibeon.
    But, SOLOMON Built God a HOUSE
    But, God does not live in houses built by human hands and He cannot be worshipped by the WORKS of human hands.

    Those who enagaged in musical idolatry at Mount Sinai were "blotted out of God's book of life." The Craftsmen (staff), singers and instrument players in Revelation 18 are called SORCERERS and Jesus had John say that they WILL BE CAST ALIVE into the Lake of fire.

    At least, granted that the ASSAULTED are not a CULT for staying awake to prevent the ASSAULTERS from taking down the GUARD (elders) and invited you to be executed by the Levite execution squad.
    1 Sam16:22-23 Saul sent to Jesse, saying, “Let David now stand before me, for he has found favor in my sight.” 23 So it came about whenever the evil spirit from God came to Saul, David would take the harp and play it with his hand; and Saul would be refreshed and be well, and the evil spirit would depart from him.

    So you are saying that evil made an evil spirit depart and made a man well. Sounds kind of like what the Pharisees said to Jesus.
    posthuman likes this.

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    Default Re: Churches of Christ with or without instruments, which is the right way to worship

    Quote Originally Posted by KSublett View Post
    2Chronicles 29:26 And the Levites stood with the instruments of David, and the priests with the trumpets.

    sto , a. To stand in the ranks or under arms, to fight: c. Transf., of a battle, to last, hold out, continue (a favorite expression of Livy)

    The command to the Levies was to STAND IN RANK and EXECUTE any of the "brethren" who came near or into any of the "holy" places now TURNED OVER to worship the Starry host. They would be BLOTTED OUT OF THE BOOK OF LIFE.

    2Chronicles 29:27 And Hezekiah commanded to offer the burnt offering upon the altar. And when the burnt offering began, the song of the LORD began also with the trumpets, and with the instruments ordained by David king of Israel.

    how great is God's mercy that He suffers you to continue to post LIES without shame!
    how longsuffering is He that waits for the cup of His indignation to be filled!

    i have already showed you the truth. yesterday i laughed at folly, but today i weep for the judgement promised to false teachers. the Lord desires that all should come to the Truth; i will show you again:

    QUESTION:
    are the "instruments of David" weapons purposed to execute the people gathered together to offer praise to God?


    And the priests waited on their offices : the Levites also with instruments of musick of the Lord, which David the king had made to praise the Lord, because his mercy endureth for ever, when David praised by their ministry; and the priests sounded trumpets before them, and all Israel stood.

    (2 Chronicles 7:6)

    ANSWER: no.


    Quote Originally Posted by KSublett View Post

    QUESTION: Who ordained the INSTRUMENTS?
    And he set the Levites in the house of the LORD with cymbals, with psalteries, and with harps, according to the commandment of David, and of Gad the king's seer, and Nathan the prophet: for so was the commandment of the LORD by his prophets.
    And the Levites stood with the instruments of David, and the priests with the trumpets.

    (2 Chronicles 29:25-26)

    ANSWER: The LORD






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    Default Re: Churches of Christ with or without instruments, which is the right way to worship

    ♪ isn't it good that His mercy endures forever!! ♫

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    Default Re: Churches of Christ with or without instruments, which is the right way to worship

    ABOUT David's harp which probabably three strings of gut stretched over three sticks wihout a sounding board, this simple series of notes where a melody might have one note, is shown to STOP the Prophesying of Saul which was PROOF that God had abandoned Saul. What was Saul doing while he had his SPEAR in his hand ready to pin David to the wall?

    1 Sam 16:1 AND the Lord said unto Samuel, How long wilt thou mourn for Saul,
    seeing I have rejected him from reigning over Israel? fill thine horn with oil, and go,
    I will send thee to Jesse the Beth-lehem: for I have provided me a king among his sons.

    1 Sam 16:2 And Samuel said, How can I go? if Saul hear it, he will kill me. And the Lord said,
    Take an heifer with thee, and say, I am come to sacrifice to the Lord.


    1 Sam 16:14 But the Spirit OF the Lord departed from Saul,
    and an evil spirit FROM the Lord
    troubled him.

    Being abandoned to worship the starry host where the SPIRIT of Abaddon or Apollyon (defining SERVICE) at the temple was the LEADER was:


    Spiritus in Latin has the same literal meaning of wind or breath [ The breath of a god, inspiration, A haughty spirit, haughtiness, pride, arrogance] but because God had abandoned Israel to worship the starry host (and gave them kings in His anger) the word is widely used in the sense of

    spīrĭtus spiritum Phoebus mihi, Phoebus [Abaddon, Apollyon] artem Carminis [music, enchantment] dedit, poetic spirit or inspiration, Hor. C. 4, 6, 29; cf an evil spirit

    1 Sam 16:15 And Sauls servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit FROM the God troubleth thee.

    ex-ăgĭto , āvi, ātum, 1, v. freq. a., I.to drive out of its position or place; to stir up, rouse up, disturb. like a laded burden

    1 Sam 16:16 Let our lord now command thy servants, which are before thee, to seek out a man, who is a cunning player on an harp: and it shall come to pass, when the evil spirit FROM the God is upon thee, that he shall play [psallo] with his hand, and thou shalt be well.

    The word psallo means pluck with your FINGERS but never with a plectrum or guitar pick. This would forbid wind and persussion instruments.

    1 Sam 16:17 And Saul said unto his servants, Provide me now a man that can play well, and bring him to me.

    1 Sam 16:18 Then answered one of the servants, and said, Behold, I have seen a son of Jesse the Beth-lehem, that is cunning in playing, and a mighty valiant man, and a man of war, and prudent in matters, and a comely person, and the Lord is with him.

    1 Sam 16:23 And it came to pass, when the evil spirit FROM theGod was upon Saul,
    that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, [Could breath freely]
    and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him.


    An EVIL spirit caused Saul to prophesy mălus , : “gramina,” id. A. 2, 471: carmen, i. e. an incantation,a Laded Burden, to harass, annoy, I would rather you should be unfortunate than effeminate, insane, deranged

    WHAT HAPPENED WHEN GOD ABANDONED SAUL TO A EVIL SPIRIT.
    This Evil Spirit which God abandoned Saul to to make him look insane to discredit him was:

    1Sa 18:10 And it came to pass on the morrow, that the evil spirit FROM God came upon Saul,
    and he prophesied in the midst of the house: and David played with his hand, as at other times: and there was a javelin in Saul's hand.


    prŏphēta and prŏphētes , a forteller, soothsayer, [used of Sorcery]
    : sacerdotes Aegyptiorum, quos prophetas vocant,” Macr. S. 7, 13, 9: “Aegyptius, propheta primarius,” App. M. 2, p. 127, 3.—Of the Jewish prophets, Lact. 1, 4, 1; 4, 11, 1; 7, 24, 9; Vulg. Luc. 1, 70.

    Miriam and the Levites "prophesied" with musical instruments as the prīmārĭus , a, um, adj. id., I.one of the first, of the first rank, chief, principal, excellent, remarkable (class.): primarius parasitus,

    1Sa 18:11 And Saul cast the javelin; for he said, I will smite David even to the wall with it. And David avoided out of his presence twice.
    1Sa 18:12 And Saul was afraid of David, because the LORD was with him, and was departed from Saul

    When God "turned Israel over to worship the starry host" because of musical idolatry at Mount Sinai, David assigned the Warrior Levites to STAND IN RANKS and make noise which was exorcism.

    "He prophesied in the midst of the house. He was beside himself; made prayers, supplications, and incoherent imprecations: 'God preserve my life,' 'Destroy my enemies,' or such like prayers, might frequently escape from him in his agitated state. The Arabic intimates that he was actually possessedby an evil spirit, and that through it he uttered a sort of demoniacalpredictions." (Clark, 1 Sam 18, p. 270).

    "In ancient times, says Justin, kings used a spear instead of a diadem: And as spears were the emblems of supreme power, hence they were reputed as attributes of the Divinity, and were worshipped as representatives of the gods." (Adam Clark, 1 Sam. 18, p. 270)

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    Default Re: Churches of Christ with or without instruments, which is the right way to worship

    Quote Originally Posted by KSublett View Post
    The word psallo means pluck with your FINGERS but never with a plectrum or guitar pick. This would forbid wind and persussion instruments.
    oh wonderful!
    so now you agree that Colossians 3:16 and Ephesians 5:19 tell us it is well to encourage and edify each other with music,
    but it's guitar picks that make one wicked!




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    Default Re: Churches of Christ with or without instruments, which is the right way to worship

    Quote Originally Posted by KSublett View Post
    When God "turned Israel over to worship the starry host" because of musical idolatry at Mount Sinai, David assigned the Warrior Levites to STAND IN RANKS and make noise which was exorcism.

    this is a LIE.

    i hate lies. don't you?

    see 2 Chronicles 7:6 again.

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    Default Re: Churches of Christ with or without instruments, which is the right way to worship

    If God turned Israel over to worship the starry host some named by Amos and Acs 7 then the gods they worshipped were the starry host and not the CREATOR of the Host. The Spirit OF Christ speaks for the Spiritual fork and repudiates the Civil-Military-Clergy complex He called robbers.

    Is. 1:8 And the daughter of Zion is left as a cottage in a vineyard, as a lodge in a garden of cucumbers, as a besieged city.
    Is. 1:9 Except the LORD of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah.
    Is. 1:10 Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.
    Is. 1:11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.
    Is. 1:12 When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?
    Is. 1:13 Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.
    Is. 1:14 Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.
    Is. 1:15 And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.
    Is. 1:16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;
    Is. 1:17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.
    Is. 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
    Is. 1:19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:
    Is. 1:20 But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it


    The Isaiah DSS Scroll the Ethiopean Enoch would have with him.
    12. (10) Hear the word of YHWH princes of Sodom and give ear to the Torah of our God people of Gomorrah. (11) What are they to me,
    13. your multiplied sacrifices, says YHWH, I am sated with holocausts of rams and the fat of fatlings, and in the blood
    14. of bulls and lambs and goats I have no delight. (12) When you come to see my face to make this request
    15. from your hands treading my courtyard. (13) Do not continue to bring empty gifts, Incense is an abomination
    16. to me, new moon and sabbaths, calling of reading meetings,
    I am not able to endure even the sacred assembly.
    Your new moons and seasonal feasts
    17. my soul hates, they are a burden to me, I am tired of bearing them.
    And when you spread your hands I will hide my eyes
    18. from you, also when you multiply prayer I will not listen, your hands are full of blood. [+and your fingers+] [
    19. [+of iniquity+] (16) Wash and make yourselves clean and turn away the evil of your habitual practices from before my eyes, stop doing evil. (17) Learn

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    Default Re: Churches of Christ with or without instruments, which is the right way to worship

    even the LORD plays music as He exercises judgement:

    The Assyrians will be terror-stricken at the voice of the LORD, when he strikes with his rod.
    And every stroke of the appointed staff that the LORD lays on them will be to the sound of tambourines and lyres.
    Battling with brandished arm, he will fight with them.

    (Isaiah 30:31-32, ESV)

    one good thing about having a false teacher in the forum; the Spirit of Truth uses them to point God's children at some amazing things!

    rejoice!
    SarahM777 likes this.

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    Default Re: Churches of Christ with or without instruments, which is the right way to worship

    Numbers 4:15 And when Aaron and his sons have made an end of covering the sanctuary, and all the vessels of the sanctuary, as the camp is to set forward;
    .....after that, the sons of Kohath shall come to bear it:
    .... but they shall not touch any holy thing, lest they die.
    .....These things are the burden of the sons of Kohath in the tabernacle of the congregation.

    Numbers 4:17 And the LORD spake unto Moses and unto Aaron, saying,
    Numbers 4:18 Cut ye not off the tribe of the families of the Kohathites from among the Levites:

    per-do to make away with; to destroy, ruin; to lose utterly or irrecoverably:

    Numbers 4:19 BUT thus do unto them, that they may live, and not die,
    .....when they approach unto the most holy things:
    .....Aaron and his sons shall go in,
    .....and appoint them every one to his service and to his burden:
    Numbers 4:20 But they shall not go in to see when the holy things are covered, lest they die.

    Numbers 18:22 Neither must the children of Israel henceforth .....come nigh the tabernacle of the congregation, lest they bear sin, and die.

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    Default Re: Churches of Christ with or without instruments, which is the right way to worship

    The people went to Jerusalem in musical procession to burn infants to Moloch. The Assyrian worship dominated in Jerusalem and in 2 Chronicles 29 the "instruments" of the Assyrians were removed: even so no musical Levite was permitted to enter any "holy" place even to carry out the pagan garbage.

    Topheth "denotes properly what causes loathing or abhorrence; that which produces disgust and vomiting" (Barnes). This association between loathing of Topheth and the tabret was so clear that the early revisers have Job 17:6 KJV saying:
    "He that speaketh flattery to his friends, even the eyes of his shildren shall fail. He hath made me also a byword of the people; and aforetime I was as a tabret."

    Thus, "I was an abhorrence" became "I was a tabret." In either case one beat upon it or him when he was just as innocent as the child sacrificed to Moloch. "This valley was early selected as the seat of the worship of Moloch, where his rites were celebrated by erecting a huge brazen image with a hollow trunk and arms, which was heated, and within which, or on the arms of which, children were placed as a sacrifice to the horrid idol. To drown their cries, drumswere beaten, which were called Tophim." (Barnes, Isaiah 33, p. 463).

    In Revelation 18 the craftsmen singers and instrument players were called SORCERERS and Jerusalem was called Sodom. They would be CAST ALIVE INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE. Christ in Isaiah exactly defines what happened in Jerusalem where a million unbaptized people were BURNED and cast on too the garbage pit to burn and be consumed by maggots. We don't know of a single levite harp player or harp that survived: the Jews NEED one of those harps to restart the HOLOCAUST which God did not command.

    And his breath [SPIRIT], as rushing water in a valley, reach reach as far as the neck, and be divided, to confound the nations [EVERYONE] for their vain error; error also shall pursue them and overtake them. Isaiah 30:28 LXX

    Must ye always rejoice, and go into my holy places continually, as they that keep a feast? and must ye go with a pipe, as those that rejoice into the mountain of the Lord, to the God of Israel Isaiah 30:29 LXX

    and the Lord shall make his glorious voice to be heard and the wrath of his arm, to make a display with wrath and anger and devouring flame: he shall lighten terribly, and his wrath shall be as water and violent hail. Isaiah 30:30 LXX

    For by the voice of the Lord the Assyrians shall be overcome, even by the stroke where with he shall smite them. Isaiah 30:31 LXX

    And it shall happen to him from every side, that they from whom their hope of assistance was, in which he trusted, themselves shall war against him in turn with drums and with harp. Isaiah 30:32 LXX

    For thou shalt be required before thy time: has it beenprepared for thee also to reign? nay, God has prepared for thee a deep trench, wood piled fire and much wood: the wrath of the Lord shall be as a trenchkindled with sulphur. Isaiah 30:33 LXX
    "We may understand a thing as spoken generally, even when it requires a certain special interpretation to be given to it. For some things spoken with a special reference contain in them general truth.

    When God admonishes the Isrealites of their duty, or sharply reproves them,
    He has surely a reference to all men;

    when He threatens destruction to Egypt and Ethiopia,
    He surely pre-condemns every sinning nation, whatever.

    If, reasoning from species to genus, every nation that sins against them is an Egypt and Ethiopia; so also, reasoning from genus to species, with reference to the origin of shows, every show is an assembly of the wicked.

    We DO know that the procession was in Jerusalem because that is where they burned infants just before 2 Chronicles 29 and just after 2 Chronicles 29. Hezekiah's GOAT BURNING did not replace INFANTS.

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    Default Re: Churches of Christ with or without instruments, which is the right way to worship


    Yet I will rejoice in the LORD, I will joy in the God of my salvation.
    The LORD God is my strength, and he will make my feet like hinds' feet,
    and he will make me to walk upon mine high places.
    To the chief singer on my stringed instruments.


    (Habakkuk 3:18-19)

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    Default Re: Churches of Christ with or without instruments, which is the right way to worship

    I can understand that the senes of lostness can lead people to the High Places rejoice. However, this is not a command for the Ekklesia which is defined inclusively and exclusively as A SCHOOL OF THE WORD. They have 167 more hours to sing, play, dance, shout, hug and kiss all they want. However NOT when the Lord is in His Holy Temple which is MY Spirit or mind made into A holy spirit or A good conscience after baptism so that I can read BLACK text on WHITE paper (2 Corinthians 3). Then we will grasp that THE LORD IS THE SPIRIT.

    The direct command in Habakkuk 2 is to silence Awaking Lyres promoted by David claimging that they could TEACH and:

    Hab. 2:19 Woe unto him that saith to the wood, Awake; to the dumb stone, Arise, it shall teach! Behold, it is laid over with gold and silver, and there is no breath at all in the midst of it.
    Hab. 2:20 But the LORD is in his holy temple: let all the earth keep silence before him.

    David wanted to AWAKEN his lyre so that he could AWAKEN the dawn. Fits with the kings being abandoned to worship the starry host (re the Star of David) OR "poems tend to be poetic." Nonetheless, the uneducated fall sucker for poetic speech (says Jesus of speaking parables):

    We even have a mention at a later date of a similar custom in connection with the cult in Jerusalem, where certain Levites, called me'oreim, 'arousers," sang every morning this verse from Ps 44: 'Awake, Lord, awake! Do not abandon us for ever." The Talmud tells us that Johy Hyrcanus suppressed the practice because it recalled too readily a pagan custom.
    A similar practice is attested in connection with the cult of Herakles-Melkart. According to Menander, as he is quoted by Josephus, the king Hiram, who was a contemporary of Solomon, rebuilt the temples of Tyre and, 'he was the first to celebrate the awakening of Heracles in the month of Peritius." (de Vaux, p. 247)
    In an inscription from Cyprus, in one from Rhodes and in several from around the district of Carthage, there are references to important personages who bear the title Mqm"lm which we can translate as 'arouser of the god." (de Vaux, p. 247).
    Hab 3:1 A prayer of Habakkuk the prophet upon Shigionoth.

    ōrātĭo , ōnis, f. oro, I. In partic., formal language, artificial discourse, set speech (opp. to sermo, ordinary speech, conversational language):
    B. Prose (OPPOSITE. to poetry): “et in poëmatis et in oratione,” Cic. Or. 21, 70.—
    I.
    a speaking, speech, discourse, language I. In gen., the connection of words to express thought

    That removes Fanny Crosby from Churches of Christ!! Despair is a terrible thing.

    ignōrātĭo , ōnis, f. ignoro, I.want of knowledge or acquaintance, ignorance
    Shigionoth is a poem set to music and signals a judgmental message:
    Shiggayown (h7692) shig-gaw-yone' from 7686; prop. aberration, i. e. (tech.) a dithyramb or ramblingpoem: - Shiggaion, Shigionoth
    Shagah (h7686) shaw-gaw'; a prim. root; to stray (caus. mislead), usually (fig.) to mistake, espec. (mor.) to transgress; by extens. (through the idea of intoxication) to reel, (fig.) be enraptured: - (cause to) go astray, deceive, err, be ravished, sin through ignorance, (let, make to) wander.
    But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment. Is.28:7
    WINE is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise. Pr.20:1
    O Lord, I have heard thy speech, and was afraid: O Lord, revive thy work in the midst of the years, in the midst of the years make known; in wrath remember mercy. Hab 3:2

    Hab 3:17 Although the fig tree shall not blossom, neither shall fruit be in the vines; the labour of the olive shall fail, and the fields shall yield no meat; the flock shall be cut off from the fold, and there shall be no herd in the stalls:
    Hab 3:18 Yet I will rejoice in the Lord, I will joy in the God of my salvation.
    Hab 3:19 The Lord God is my strength, and he will make my feet like hinds feet, and he will make me to walk upon mine high places.

    This is how a psalm which is not METRICAL may be presented by the Chief Singer who was the overseer of the corvee or work gangs. This instruction was not part of the original

    To the
    chief singer on my stringed instruments.
    Nacach (h5329) naw-tsakh'; to glitter from afar, to be eminent as a superintendent, especially of the Temple services and its music; also to be permanent, to excel, chief musician, singer, overseer, set forward.
    And the men did the work faithfully: and the overseers of them were Jahath and Obadiah, the Levites, of the sons of Merari; and Zechariah and Meshullam, of the sons of the Kohathites, to set it forward; and other of the Levites, all that could skill of instruments of musick. 2Chr.34:12

    Rather than letting the Kohathites be killed God permitted them to perform the work of a nation abandoned to Worship the Starry host. No one in recorded history assembled to SING psalms with or without instruments.

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    Default Re: Churches of Christ with or without instruments, which is the right way to worship

    Back to the meaning of Legalism. Stephen got himself murdered because he dared to tell the doctors of the Law.

    Israel rejoiced in the WORKS of their own hands and this PLAY word includes all of the performance roles.
    God PROMISED (rather than letting him be killed for his own sins) David a TENT on Mount Zion.
    BUT, Solomon built God a HOUSE (brick and mortar) on Mount Moriah set up for Jebusite Sin Worship where God had already PROVIDED.
    BUT, God does lot live in houses built by human hands: just forget it Jesus will be OUTSIDE
    God cannot be worshipped by the WORKS of human hands: waving, clapping, picking or beating. God IS holy or wholly Spirit and worship takes place only IN the washed spirit as it gives attendance to the TRUTH or the Word of God.
    While Jesus Christ is being REPROACHED by the self pleasure (all performance roles) those who are able to REST from their own works will be OUTSIDE where the Gospel is "come to me all ye that Labor and are heavey laden (all of the performance rhetoric and music) and I will give you REST. PAUO means STOP the speaking, singing, playing, acting or whatever meaning STOP the panic of religious ritual.
    Then the one-piece pattern can be practiced: "Come learn of ME."

    THE ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN DEFINITION OF LEGALISM:

    Plat. Laws 2.657b all this lapse of time are the compositions of Isis. Hence, as I said, if one could by any means succeed in grasping no principle [Nomos , ho, (nemō) b. in VT, of the law of God, “en nomō Kuriou to thelēma autou” ] of correctness in tune, one might then with confidence reduce them to legal form and prescription, since the tendency of pleasure and pain to indulge constantly in fresh music has, after all, no very great power to corrupt choric forms that are consecrated, by merely scoffing at them as antiquated. In Egypt, at any rate, it seems to have had no such power of corrupting,

    In the never-musical (legalism) message of Paul in Ephesians 5. Paul uses forms of Parallelism where BUT intends to reveal the Godly practice.

    Ephesians 5:17 Wherefore be ye not unwise,
    BUT understanding what the WILL [thelēma] of the Lord is.[The Word]

    The Bible is filled with the antithesis between the performing clergy of all religions using music as the primary tool to fool the foolish by literally changing the thinking power of the mind so that it accepts that which is false if it is presented by the "Muses" or the "Graces."

    II. Antithetical Parallelism--The thought of the first line is expressed by an antithesis in the second;
    or is counterbalanced by a contrast in the second. This parallelism is very common in the Book of Proverbs:

    (a) The tongue of the wise adorneth knowledge,
    {BUT} The mouth of the fool blurteth out folly. Prov., xv, 2.
    Artĭfex orator or writer: doctores cunning artifices scaenici
    canebant chanticleer; kuknos cock melodious notes, to sing, sound, play. Of men: “si absurdecanat,” tibicensine tibiis canere, Io! magna voce, Triumphe, canet,”

    Legalism is using the Works of Human hands. The Craftsmen in Revelation 18 John called sorcerers are silversmiths or "theater builders and stage managers." They simply do not know the infinite distance between an INFINITE Almighty God of the universe and their cuteness, lovely voice and playing an instrument cunningly or craftily. Jesus called them hypocrites in Ezekiel 33 and named them Scribes and Pharisees: they made up their own songs and sermons SO THAT they would not have to speak what God spoke. Jesus identifies them as OF the World or that Just Natural population for which Jesus did not pray and God will not speak.

    The WILL of the Lord is the WORD or Logos which is the regulative principle: it is opposite of talented rhetoric, singing, playing instruments or acting. It is easy to lie when singing that which is NOT written for our learning: "Nothing to the cross I bring." A Christian or Disciple or Student does not attend class to usurp the role of the professor to keep everyone from learning.
    Nomos , ho, (nemō) b. in VT, of the law of God, “en nomō Kuriou to thelēma autou
    Obeying God's Commands are not legalism because we didn't invent them
    A. that which is in
    habitual practice, use or possession, [You bought the house but I got possession]
    I. usage, custom, [
    Mousai] melpontai pantôn te nomous kai êthea kedna Hes.Th.66n. archaiosaristos
    2. Nomos personified, hoi theoi sthenousi khhō keinōn kratōn N. E.Hec.800, cf. Orph.Fr.105, 160.
    II. melody, strain,oida d' ornikhōn nomōs pantōn” type of early melody created by Terpander for the lyre as an accompaniment to Epic texts, for the flute, “n. aulōdikosPlu.2.1132d; without sung text, n. aulētikos composition including both words and melody

    ALL music is performed by rigid rules or LAWS and is performed by people who have worked for decades learning how to sing or play SKILLFULLY. My first cousin is a well known Saxaphonist: I cannot make the reed vibrate. He spent decades: I have never really tried. He paid a fortune for his instruments: I paid 12.50 for my claranet.

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    Default Re: Churches of Christ with or without instruments, which is the right way to worship

    Some more definitions of Legalism meaning the Works of Human hands.
    When a peaceable Church of Christ is clarged with being a LEGALIST because they will not agree them and turn A Church of Christ (A School of Christ in the prophets and apostles), this gives them the MORAL authority to, as they say, infiltrate and divert your congregation into an instrumental church: men are used in print and lectures to tell others how to TRANSISTION a church of Christ into the practice which is ceremonial legalism. Jesus said that the kingdom does not come with such OBSERVATIONS so it is reasonable that people who sow discord to confiscate have not trouble with that: The elders if APT are given to silence the cunning craftsmen meaning rhetoricians, singers and instrument players: Paul wrote that they lie in wait to deceive. Continuing:

    surigx , iggos, hē, A.shepherd's pipe, Panspipe, cat-call, whistle, hiss, as in theatres, surigmos:—the last part of the nomos Puthikos was called surigges, prob. because it imitated the dying hisses of the serpent Pytho, Str.9.3.10.

    It if a fact that ALL stringed instruments have their plucking or smiting from a violent attack. And, psallo PROHIBITS all but strings plucked with your fingers and NEVER with a plectrum. All body worship is the Works of human hands or bodies and that is the meaning of legalism. DANCE is part of MUSIC almost by definition: that might be hand clapping or body vibrating.

    molp-ē , hē, (melpō) A.dance or rhythmic movement with song, Od. 6.101, Il.18.606. 2. more freq. song, 1.472; “molpēs te glukerēs kai amumonos orkhēthmoio” 13.637; “molpē t'orkhēstus te” Od.1.152, cf. Hes.Th.69, Sapph.Supp.25.5, Pi.O.10.84,6.97 (pl.), A.Ag.106 (lyr.), etc.: Com. in lyr., molpa klagga Mnesim.4.57 (anap.): metaph., ou m. suriggos ekhōn the note, S.Ph.212 (lyr.): also in late Prose, as Luc.Salt.23.
    ...melpō , Il.1.474, melpeo kai kitharize h.Merc. 476; Melpomenos, epith. of Dionysus at Athens, Paus.1.2.5; dance and sing, as a chorus, “meta melpomenēsin en khorō” Il.16.182, cf.h.Hom. 19.21;

    klagg-ē , hē, metapl. dat. A.“klaggi” Ibyc.56: (klazō):—any sharp sound, e.g. twang of the bow, Il.1.49; scream of birds, esp. cranes, to which are compared confused cries of a throng, grunting of swine, Od. 14.412; later, howling of wolves and lions, h.Hom.14.4, cf. 27.8; hissing of serpents, Pi.Dith.2.18 (pl.), A.Th.381 (pl.); baying of dogs, X.Cyn.4.5, etc.; also, of musical instruments, Telest.4, Mnesim.4.57 (anap.); of song, S.Tr.208 (lyr.); k. aēdoneios (leg. -onios)

    This has the same meaning as Clanging Brass and Tinkling Cymbals.

    1Corinthians 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

    ala^l-azō , 2 generally, cry, shout aloud, Pi.l.c., E.El.855; esp. in orgiastic rites, A.Fr.57; of Bacchus and Bacchae, E.Ba.593 (in Med.), 1133, etc.; “ōloluxan hai gunaikes, psalmos d' alalazei A.Fr.57; “kumbalon alalazon 1 Ep.Cor.13.1.

    Other than the command to speak that which is written, SPEAKING in tongues has the same meaning as playing a lifeless instrument: neither can praise God and in fact creates mental confusion

    la^l-eō , III. of musical sounds, “aulō laleō” Theoc.20.29; of trees, v.supr.1.2; “di'aulou ē salpiggos l.” Arist. Aud.801a29; of Echo, D.C.74.14: also c.acc. cogn., magadin lalein sound the magadis,
    hupokrinô Peter outlawed private interpretation which means "further expounding." To PERFORM something especially as "seeing godliness as a means of financial gain" says Peter is to despise the fact that God VALIDATED the Words of Jesus with signs and wonders.

    I. interpreter or expounder, “tēs di' ainigmōn phēmēs” Pl.Ti. 72b; “oneirōn” Luc.Somn.17, etc.
    II in Att., one who plays a part on the stage, actor, Ar.V.1279, Pl.R.373b, Chrm. 162d, Smp.194b, X. Mem.2.2.9, etc.
    2.of an orator, poikilos hu. kai perittos ( Mania or religious frenzy.
    Rhêtor-ikos , ê, on, oratorical, hê rhêtorikê (sc. technê). These are the craftsmen lumped with the singers, musicians and "grinder" doing merchandise in the house of prayer. Rev. 18:22
    SIMILAR LATIN:canto I. Neutr., to produce melodious sounds (by the voice or an instrument), to sound, sing, play (class. in prose and poetry; to sing and play while the actor accompanies the song with gestures or dancing, C. Transf., of instruments, to sound, resound: 2. Of the singing pronunciation of an orator, to declaim in a singing tone, to sing

    Aristotle Politics 1341b and all the instruments that require manual skill. And indeed there is a reasonable foundation for the story that was told by the ancients about the flute. The tale goes that Athena found a flute and threw it away. Now it is not a bad point in the story that the goddess did this out of annoyance because of the ugly distortion of her features; but as a matter of fact it is more likely that it was because education in flute-playing has no effect on the intelligence, whereas we attribute science and art to Athena.

    And since we reject professional education in the instruments and in performance(and we count performance in competitions as professional, for the performer does not take part in it for his own improvement, but for his hearers' pleasure, and that a vulgar pleasure, owing to which we do not consider performing to be proper for free men, but somewhat menial;<>a nd indeed performers do become vulgar, since the object at which they aim is a low one, as vulgarity in the audience usually influences the music, so that it imparts to the artists who practise it with a view to suit the audience a special kind of personality, and also of bodily frame because of the movements required)--we must therefore give some consideration to tunes and rhythms, and to the question whether for educational purposes we must employ all the tunes and all the rhythms or make distinctions; and next, whether for those who are working at music for education we shall lay down the same regulation, or ought we to establish some other third one (inasmuch as we see that the factors in music are melody and rhythm, and it is important to notice what influence each of these has upon education), and whether we are to prefer music with a good melody or music with a good rhythm.

    It is a fact that there probably is not a Synagogue or Ekklesia as A School (only) of the Word (only) on the face of the earth. Christ called for a Restoration in Isaiah 58 by outlawing seeking our own pleasure or speaking our own words: Paul repeated that in Romans 15 including stopping the Areskos or Placeo meaning all of the PERFORMANCE roles which MUST be performed according to RULES and is therefore legalism. The direct command was to speak that which is written for our learning: you cannot add to that without imposing LEGALISM at one level. NOT using machines for doing hard work from the wilderness onward is NOT legalism.

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    Default Re: Churches of Christ with or without instruments, which is the right way to worship

    So....many words!

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    Default Re: Churches of Christ with or without instruments, which is the right way to worship

    someone has too much time on their hands for a pointless thread...

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