I have reason to believe that being lesbian is not a sin.
The idea that being lesbian is a sin, particularly an act of sexual immorality, appears to be referring to two things found in the Bible.
The first, is this:
Leviticus 18:22
"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." (KJV)
"You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination." (ESV & NSRV)
"You are not to sleep with a man as with a woman; it is detestable." (HCSB)
which is a line in a list of sexual immoralities addressed directly by GOD.
However, this is a line that specifically states a man may not sleep with a man in the same way as they would with a woman.
This does not say that a woman can not sleep with a woman as they would with a man.
In other words, this is a rule for men, not women.
Argument 1:
It's implied that same sex relations are wrong.
Counterargument 1:
The very next line states "Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto". This addresses a rule specifically for women in a separate section of the same line. It comes off as strange that it would be so specific here, yet not specific in the rule made immediately before it. If it was a rule against women doing it with women, then it would likely say something along the lines of "You are not to sleep with a man as with a woman; Neither shall any woman sleep with a woman as with a man: it is detestable". However, it did not do so, which comes off as strange considering the formatting of the rule that comes immediately after it.
Argument 2:
"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.". The bolded part is saying that women may not do so either.
Counterargument 2:
If that were the case, then "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." the bolded part here would be separate. Even if they are not separate, then no matter how you twist this, the closest thing you are going to get to a rule about lesbians would be "You may not sleep with a man as you would with a woman, neither shall any woman sleep with a man as they would with a woman."
Argument 3:
If it is not okay for two men to have a sexual relationship, then why would it be okay for two women to have a sexual relationship?! Just because the bible does not explicitly say it is unacceptable for two women to have a sexual relationship does not mean that it is okay!
Counterargument 3:
See Counterargument 1:. We can't assume that it is a sin if it does not explicitly say so. There is actually nothing here suggesting it is wrong to have a lesbian relationship, so there is no reason to act like it is.
Argument 4:
Are you a lesbian? If so, then this whole topic is you twisting the Bible and manipulating to have your way! You are just making it mean something else to your own benefit! That is not good in the eyes of GOD.
Counterargument 4:
I am not lesbian. In fact, the thought of doing something like that personally grosses and creeps me out a bit (Although the thought of doing it with a man also grosses me out. I'm a virgin btw. I plan on staying that way for life.). That much is irrelevant regardless. As for what my motive is behind this topic, a few things. You are making lesbians feel like they will go to hell for what they are and how they feel. Moreover, it is possible that it is not even a sin in the first place! More importantly, you are turning them away from GOD by saying so. You may think that because they would turn from GOD to indulge in being lesbian, that they were already too sinful in the first place. This is incorrect. It turns them away because they believe that if GOD is the kind of person that would send people to hell over something like love, that GOD is a cruel being. Even so, many lesbians try to be Christian regardless, and are put down by daring to call themselves Christian while being so sexually perverse and immoral. This makes Christians, some who are likely the home of much more sin in general, look bad, and turns them away from the religion. This also makes them feel like a minority doomed to hell for how they are. In other words, you are making Christianity a thing that makes them miserable and ruins their life. And for what? Because we think a verse may imply that it is wrong without even explicitly saying so? Aren't we contradicting ourselves, to think we will be fine for our sins that we choose to do in our lives as well as the sinful tendencies that we call a part of who we are and what we are? Unforgivable, by most but not GOD who is understanding and has forgiven you for all of your sins that are much more vast than the one potential sin you pointed out.
Additionally, there is nothing logically incorrect about anything that I pointed out. It does not say it is a sin for women to sleep with women as they would with a man. That means there is nothing suggesting that it is a sin in the first place. Why would this "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." be worded this way, but the line "Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto" that comes immediately afterwards be so specific and address women separately?
Argument 5:
So according to you, it's perfectly fine to be lesbian! Great! Now society is one step closer to incest and pedophilia!
Counterargument 5:
No more so than heterosexual relationships. In fact, GOD specified against incest and pedophilia in the section regarding sexual immoralities. Do not forget, however, that we are not to judge, and that we need to focus on ourselves as much as possible. We are sinful ourselves, and have no time to focus on the immorality of society or the acts of others. It is not your place to judge, and I believe, judging is the one of very few ways to get GOD to judge you now that Jesus has died for your sins. Another, is sinning purposefully as though you have a get out of jail free card and do true evil feeling you will meet no consequence. Do not judge, or you too will be judged, and with your unit of measure, it will be measured to you.
In other words, focus on yourself. Focus on yourself as much as you can. You need to do all you can to be good yourself. Teach others, but do not force the word down their throats. Do not abhore a sinful Christian, as they are in need of Christianity the most. Do not say "How dare you call yourself Christian when X" because the same should be said to you.
The other part:
Romans 1:18
That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relations with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men, and as a result of this sin, they suffered within themselves the penalty they deserved.
Note here, that it is not GOD speaking, but the apostle Paul.
This appears to be written from the perspective of Paul who was watching what became of the people who worshiped an idol instead of GOD.
The verse does have this line "Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other.". The way this is worded, seems more like a declaration of geniune surprise in response to the observation that even women were doing it with women.
The lines "And the men, instead of having normal sexual relations with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men, and as a result of this sin, they suffered within themselves the penalty they deserved.", also said by Paul, all seems to be referring specifically to men.
Although Paul was an apostle and therefore technically able to declare lesbian relationships as a sin, he was certainly not doing so at this time.
This combined with the list of sexual immoralities stated directly by GOD that specified for women in the line "Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto" but not in the line "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." convinced me that perhaps it is not actually a sin. It doesn't appear to be mentioned anywhere else in the Bible as far as I know, unless i'm wrong? It appears as though it isn't explicitely or clearly stated anywhere in the Bible that lesbian relationships are wrong.
What do you think?
The idea that being lesbian is a sin, particularly an act of sexual immorality, appears to be referring to two things found in the Bible.
The first, is this:
Leviticus 18:22
"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." (KJV)
"You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination." (ESV & NSRV)
"You are not to sleep with a man as with a woman; it is detestable." (HCSB)
which is a line in a list of sexual immoralities addressed directly by GOD.
However, this is a line that specifically states a man may not sleep with a man in the same way as they would with a woman.
This does not say that a woman can not sleep with a woman as they would with a man.
In other words, this is a rule for men, not women.
Argument 1:
It's implied that same sex relations are wrong.
Counterargument 1:
The very next line states "Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto". This addresses a rule specifically for women in a separate section of the same line. It comes off as strange that it would be so specific here, yet not specific in the rule made immediately before it. If it was a rule against women doing it with women, then it would likely say something along the lines of "You are not to sleep with a man as with a woman; Neither shall any woman sleep with a woman as with a man: it is detestable". However, it did not do so, which comes off as strange considering the formatting of the rule that comes immediately after it.
Argument 2:
"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.". The bolded part is saying that women may not do so either.
Counterargument 2:
If that were the case, then "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." the bolded part here would be separate. Even if they are not separate, then no matter how you twist this, the closest thing you are going to get to a rule about lesbians would be "You may not sleep with a man as you would with a woman, neither shall any woman sleep with a man as they would with a woman."
Argument 3:
If it is not okay for two men to have a sexual relationship, then why would it be okay for two women to have a sexual relationship?! Just because the bible does not explicitly say it is unacceptable for two women to have a sexual relationship does not mean that it is okay!
Counterargument 3:
See Counterargument 1:. We can't assume that it is a sin if it does not explicitly say so. There is actually nothing here suggesting it is wrong to have a lesbian relationship, so there is no reason to act like it is.
Argument 4:
Are you a lesbian? If so, then this whole topic is you twisting the Bible and manipulating to have your way! You are just making it mean something else to your own benefit! That is not good in the eyes of GOD.
Counterargument 4:
I am not lesbian. In fact, the thought of doing something like that personally grosses and creeps me out a bit (Although the thought of doing it with a man also grosses me out. I'm a virgin btw. I plan on staying that way for life.). That much is irrelevant regardless. As for what my motive is behind this topic, a few things. You are making lesbians feel like they will go to hell for what they are and how they feel. Moreover, it is possible that it is not even a sin in the first place! More importantly, you are turning them away from GOD by saying so. You may think that because they would turn from GOD to indulge in being lesbian, that they were already too sinful in the first place. This is incorrect. It turns them away because they believe that if GOD is the kind of person that would send people to hell over something like love, that GOD is a cruel being. Even so, many lesbians try to be Christian regardless, and are put down by daring to call themselves Christian while being so sexually perverse and immoral. This makes Christians, some who are likely the home of much more sin in general, look bad, and turns them away from the religion. This also makes them feel like a minority doomed to hell for how they are. In other words, you are making Christianity a thing that makes them miserable and ruins their life. And for what? Because we think a verse may imply that it is wrong without even explicitly saying so? Aren't we contradicting ourselves, to think we will be fine for our sins that we choose to do in our lives as well as the sinful tendencies that we call a part of who we are and what we are? Unforgivable, by most but not GOD who is understanding and has forgiven you for all of your sins that are much more vast than the one potential sin you pointed out.
Additionally, there is nothing logically incorrect about anything that I pointed out. It does not say it is a sin for women to sleep with women as they would with a man. That means there is nothing suggesting that it is a sin in the first place. Why would this "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." be worded this way, but the line "Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto" that comes immediately afterwards be so specific and address women separately?
Argument 5:
So according to you, it's perfectly fine to be lesbian! Great! Now society is one step closer to incest and pedophilia!
Counterargument 5:
No more so than heterosexual relationships. In fact, GOD specified against incest and pedophilia in the section regarding sexual immoralities. Do not forget, however, that we are not to judge, and that we need to focus on ourselves as much as possible. We are sinful ourselves, and have no time to focus on the immorality of society or the acts of others. It is not your place to judge, and I believe, judging is the one of very few ways to get GOD to judge you now that Jesus has died for your sins. Another, is sinning purposefully as though you have a get out of jail free card and do true evil feeling you will meet no consequence. Do not judge, or you too will be judged, and with your unit of measure, it will be measured to you.
In other words, focus on yourself. Focus on yourself as much as you can. You need to do all you can to be good yourself. Teach others, but do not force the word down their throats. Do not abhore a sinful Christian, as they are in need of Christianity the most. Do not say "How dare you call yourself Christian when X" because the same should be said to you.
The other part:
Romans 1:18
That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relations with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men, and as a result of this sin, they suffered within themselves the penalty they deserved.
Note here, that it is not GOD speaking, but the apostle Paul.
This appears to be written from the perspective of Paul who was watching what became of the people who worshiped an idol instead of GOD.
The verse does have this line "Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other.". The way this is worded, seems more like a declaration of geniune surprise in response to the observation that even women were doing it with women.
The lines "And the men, instead of having normal sexual relations with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men, and as a result of this sin, they suffered within themselves the penalty they deserved.", also said by Paul, all seems to be referring specifically to men.
Although Paul was an apostle and therefore technically able to declare lesbian relationships as a sin, he was certainly not doing so at this time.
This combined with the list of sexual immoralities stated directly by GOD that specified for women in the line "Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto" but not in the line "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." convinced me that perhaps it is not actually a sin. It doesn't appear to be mentioned anywhere else in the Bible as far as I know, unless i'm wrong? It appears as though it isn't explicitely or clearly stated anywhere in the Bible that lesbian relationships are wrong.
What do you think?
