REVELATION

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phil112

Guest
#1
I am no prophecy scholar, nor, for that matter, even a student. I have no special insight to it nor do I claim to. I do, however, recognize when someone does. I am going to put up some of a book by just such a man, and altho I do not agree with all he has to say aboutit, mush of what he says cannot be denied as truth. The first thing he will tell us is how symbolim works, and he hits it dead center. All that I post here will be from The Revelation Explained, by F. G. Smith.
The Revelation Explained by F. Smith - Full Text Free Book (Part 1/7)

"Nature of Symbolic Language.


Before proceeding with the interpretation of this wonderful book, it
will be necessary for us to pause and make inquiry concerning the nature
of the language employed in its prophecies and concerning the mode of
its interpretation. It will be seen at a glance that it is wholly unlike
the common language of life; and it will be useless for us to undertake
to ascertain its signification unless we understand perfectly the
principles upon which it is founded.

The question may be asked, "Is the language intelligible at all?"
Considering the variety of interpretations placed upon it by expositors
and the opinions generally held respecting it, we might conclude that it
is not. The majority of the people look upon these prophecies as "a mass
of unintelligible enigmas," and are ready to tell the student of
Revelation that this book "either finds or leaves a man mad." But are we
to look upon its language as being applied at a venture, without any
definite rule, capable of every variety of meaning, so that we can never
be quite _sure_ that we have its correct interpretation?

Commentators generally unite in attaching a definite meaning to certain
symbols, and they tell us that these can not be applied otherwise
without violating their nature. They may not give us their reasons for
thus applying them (in fact, they generally do not), yet it is evidently
assumed that such reasons do exist. Now, if reasons actually exist why a
definite signification must be applied to the symbol in the one case,
why do they not exist in another case, and in all cases? If any law
exists in the case at all, it is a uniform one, for a law that does not
possess uniformity is no law; otherwise, it would be an unintelligible
revelation, and the only possible thing left for us to do would be to
attempt to solve it like a riddle--guess it out. It would be as if the
writer were to use words with every variety of meaning peculiarly his
own attached, without informing the reader what signification to give
them in a given instance. No man has a right thus to abuse written or
spoken language; and we may take it for granted that the God of heaven
would not make such an indiscriminate use of symbolical language when
making a revelation to men. There is no other book the wide world around
in which language is as carefully employed as in the Bible; and we can
rest assured that when God gave this Revelation to Jesus Christ "to
_show_ unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass," he
made choice of proper symbols whose meaning can be definitely evolved,
provided we can but ascertain the great underlying principles upon which
their original selection was based.

In the ordinary communication of our thoughts we employ arbitrary signs
and sounds to which we have universally agreed to fix a definite
meaning. Thus, our entire spoken language is made up of a great variety
of sounds or words with which by long practise we have become familiar.
We call a certain object a horse, not because there is any similarity
between the sound and the animal designated, but because we have agreed
that that sound shall represent that object. So, also, we have agreed
that the characters h-o-r-s-e shall represent the same thing; and by the
use of twenty-six characters, called the alphabet, placed together in
various combinations, we are able to write our entire spoken language.

The incidents connected with the introduction of written language among
a barbarous people are worthy of remark in this connection. That thought
can be conveyed to persons at a distance by the use of certain
cabalistic characters seems to them incredible, and when compelled to
believe it, they look upon the person that can accomplish such wonders
as embodying something supernatural. These things I mention merely to
call attention to the fact that spoken and written language is a curious
and wonderfully complicated affair. This is brought forcibly to our
minds when we hear persons conversing in a foreign tongue, or when we
pick up a book the characters of which are wholly unlike those of our
own language. To us an English book is full of instinctive beauty, every
letter or mark possessing a definite meaning that is instantly conveyed
to our minds, because we have become familiar with them by diligent
study and practise."

This is the opening of the book, and it is much more detailed than the small part I have posted. I encourage everyone involved in this discussion to read what this man has to say. It is in depth and clearly he had spiritual guidance while undertaking it.
 
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phil112

Guest
#2
"To establish the principle of analogy here laid down, it will be
necessary to refer only to a few of the numerous examples of divinely
interpreted symbols in the Scriptures. Any one can readily perceive the
analogy between the seven fat kine of Pharaoh's dream and as many years
of plenty; so, also, with the seven full, healthy ears that grew up on
seven stalks. Likewise, the analogy between the seven thin kine and as
many years of famine, and the seven thin, blasted ears that represented
the same thing, is apparent. One fat kine or one full ear would
symbolize one year of plenty, when crops were abundant; while seven
would represent as many distinct seasons of prosperity, etc. Kine do not
represent kine, but something analagous. The beasts of Daniel's visions
do not represent animals like themselves, or a multitude of such
animals, but something of analagous disposition. The analogy between a
wild, ferocious beast, stamping upon or devouring everything within its
reach, and a cruel, persecuting, tyrannical government is apparent. A
horn does not signify a horn, but some great power, such as a dynasty of
kings or rulers; and what the horn is to the animal in manifesting its
desolating disposition, kings and rulers are to an empire in executing
the persecuting or oppressive principles of the body politic. A pure,
chaste virgin is used to symbolize the true church of God; whereas a
corrupt harlot is chosen to represent an apostate church, and
fornication her idolatrous worship.

Although this principle is worthy of further elucidation, yet enough has
been said to firmly establish the point that symbolic language is
founded upon analogy. It is also clear that, whenever we attach a
literal signification to a symbolic object, we immediately destroy
entirely its use as a symbol. So we may accept it as one established
landmark in the interpretation of the Apocalypse, that every symbol,
regardless of the department from which it is taken--whether from the
material universe, the animal kingdom, human life or the heavenly
realm--stands as the representative, not of itself, but of some other
object of analagous character not found in the same department from
which it is drawn.

This develops another important fact worthy of attention. If the great
law of symbolic language is based upon analogy, it is clear to a
demonstration that the symbols employed _must be_ definitely applied.
They can not be arbitrary, as the words composing our spoken language
are. There is nothing in the nature of the thing to prevent our calling
a horse an elephant, provided we had only agreed universally to adopt
that designation of the animal referred to (arbitrary sounds can be
arbitrarily applied); but we violate nature when we attempt to make a
ferocious tiger the symbol of an innocent child, or represent a
blood-thirsty tyrant by the symbol of a lamb. A disgusting, polluted
harlot may be the proper symbol of an apostate church, but of the pure,
holy church of God--_never_. A proper correspondence must be kept up. We
must follow nature strictly.

Symbols are drawn from every department--from animate and inanimate
creation, from animal life and human life, from the visible universe
below and the heavenly world above, and also from some objects of fancy
to which there is no corresponding object in existence, such as Daniel's
four-headed beast, or the one in the Revelator's vision with seven heads
and ten horns; but in the selection of the same a proper correspondence
of quality is kept up. The symbols that are chosen to set forth the
great spiritual affairs of the church are such as are in themselves
nobler than those selected to describe the political affairs of kings
and empires, because in the divine estimation the church is of
infinitely greater importance and occupies a more honorable position
than worldly kingdoms. Thus, a beautiful virgin bride is chosen to
represent the church of God; whereas a great red dragon with seven heads
and ten horns is chosen to symbolize the Pagan Roman empire. The
glorious body of God's reformers is set forth under the symbol of an
angel from heaven, with his face as the sun, his feet as pillars of
fire, and a rainbow upon his head; whereas the Saracen warriors of
Mahomet are locusts upon the earth, with stings of scorpions. The
department of human and angelic life is chosen to set forth the
spiritual affairs of the church, while the department of nature and of
animal life represents the political affairs of nations. To this general
rule, there is at least one exception. Certain things connected with
God's chosen people under the old dispensation are considered proper
symbols to represent similar things or events in the New Testament
dispensation, without special regard to the department from which they
are drawn. Thus, the temple, altar, incense, candlesticks, holy city,
etc., of the former age, though not taken from the department of human
or angelic life, are, nevertheless, clearly used to represent affairs of
the church, the analogy in the case being apparent because of their
former prominence as connected with the Lord's covenant people."
 
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Karraster

Guest
#3
[FONT=&quot]Here's some Revelation.

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Yeshua.
Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.[/FONT]
 
Nov 30, 2012
2,396
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#8
The whole of personal revelation ended with the canon of Scripture. God still imparts revelation of understanding, but does not add one tittle or jot to the sacred traditions or canon of Scripture. There are no new mysteries (I am thankful for this, since we have enough mysteries to last us into eternity).

However, if one wants to understand the Book of Revelation. I hold that the preterist view (all of this prophecied the coming Caesars and the Fall of Rome to Christian Authority), the amillenialist view (all of this is the story of God's salvation of the world from the beginning of time to its end), and the premillenialist view (all of this is a prophecy of that which will happen soon) are all true. I believe Scripture can hold many meanings within one verse or chapter. I've often felt that this was another way God was inferring his Trinity to the masses.
 
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The_highwayman

Guest
#9
And it will always be the best you have read...especially if you never read another.
Was not Armstrong a false prophet who fleeced his members and only changed his theology when confronted?
 
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phil112

Guest
#10
Was not Armstrong a false prophet who fleeced his members and only changed his theology when confronted?
Armsrtong had a whole bunch of problems...among them incest, false doctrines, false prophecies.....I don't think I would accept anything from that man.
 
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sparkman

Guest
#11
Armsrtong had a whole bunch of problems...among them incest, false doctrines, false prophecies.....I don't think I would accept anything from that man.
Yes....I was a member of the church, but didn't start attending until a year before Herbert Armstrong died. I was not exposed to the false prophecies and the incest related issues or I never would have had anything to do with him or his teachings. To be honest, if I knew that people in my local church fellowship including pastors, elders, or members had any knowledge of those charges, I would be devastated. I can forgive unintentional doctrinal error, but not intentional deceit by not disclosing such things.

At any rate, that certainly disqualified him from any ministry if it was true. No church official should stay in ministry with such gross immorality.
 
F

flob

Guest
#12
Herbert Armstrong........lol, what joke
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#13
All I know is the name of the book reveals the fact that it can be understood and the word ana-ginosko as found in verse 3 chapter one is the key...to KNOW AGAIN and indicates a thorough study of the book MORE THAN ONCE and MORE THAN JUST READING IT.....it must also be placed along side numerous other books and or chapters of books in order to be properly interpreted and or understood.........IMV
 
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Gr8grace

Guest
#14
Herbert Armstrong........lol, what joke
I know I am preaching to the choir. But his message was a joke. The man was one whom Christ died for.
 
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Gr8grace

Guest
#15
All I know is the name of the book reveals the fact that it can be understood and the word ana-ginosko as found in verse 3 chapter one is the key...to KNOW AGAIN and indicates a thorough study of the book MORE THAN ONCE and MORE THAN JUST READING IT.....it must also be placed along side numerous other books and or chapters of books in order to be properly interpreted and or understood.........IMV
Isaiah 28:10~~New American Standard Bible
"For He says, 'Order on order, order on order, Line on line, line on line, A little here, a little there.'"

Repetition, repetition, repetition. Comparing scripture with scripture. And everyday we should study.

There are a lot of deep things in scripture that we will not get if we are not positive to learning His word.

And your spot on DC. the very name indicates REVELATION. But we can't sit on our donkey and expect it to come to us.