when DID the kingdom of God arrive??

followjja · Mar 25, 2014

Jesus told us if you are willing to look. The kingdom has arrived. The word kingdom is used more than 120 times in the four gospels. It was/is very imortant to Jesus.

"Seek first the kingdom of God." Matt 6:33, Luke 12:31 Of course you won't find the kingdom, if you are not looking for it. This is a command of Jesus. Why would Jesus tell us to look for something if it cannot be found?

"But I tell you truly, that there are some standing here who will not TASTE death before they see the kingdom of God come." Matt 16:28, Mark 9:1, Luke 9:27

This was a prophecy of Jesus. The kingdom must have come soon after this statement was made or Jesus would have been a false prophet. If the kingdom of God had not yet arrived when the four gospels were written then why include this prophecy stated by Jesus? Why put him up to unnecessary ridicule?

to be continued....

RedTent · Mar 25, 2014

To answer that we would have to know exactly what Jesus meant when he spoke of the Kingdom of God, and Jesus didn't tell us. Certainly if God has a Kingdom, it would mean that God rules that kingdom. God is not ruling in our world governments, today. God rules in varying degrees in individuals lives.

Some people live their entire life in relation to God. If they marry, they become one with someone and would never have sex with anyone but that person. If they spend money, they are aware it comes from God so anything they buy would be in keeping with God's way. The only way they would buy a car would be the most economical and sure way for that car to give transportation keeping in mind being manufactured with simplicity, order, and simple beauty. If they think of the people who share Christ with them, they think of ways to build them up. They put everything they do under God. So they are walking in the kingdom.

In other scriptures it is talking about the world after the return of Christ, when God will create a new Jerusalem that is truly ruled by God.

We need to look to what Kingdom of God meant to Jesus when He spoke of it, we need to look at our lives to see how completely they are lived within that kingdom, but Jesus didn't ask us to determine exactly when it happened.

john832 · Mar 25, 2014

At His return. Oh wait, it has not happened yet.

GrandHoboMaster · Mar 25, 2014

In that particular meaning, it was spoken about real opportinity to reach (through Jesus) that kingdom of God, which inside of us. It is about abilitty (of any human) to be filled with eternal energy = to that non-created invisible light which was opened to the choosed apostels in the Holy Transfiguration.

And only through such partaking (fullfillment) in eternal non-created light (Energy) of God, human can feel on practice what kind of beatited is awaited saved brethren in the Kingdom of God, which finally will be unfolded after the Doomsday.

And all the miracles of the saints was made only through getting of such eternal (non-created) light=energy of God.

Acctually the obtaining of that special (eternal=non-created) light is the main practical goal of whatsoever christian devotee (any monk or any believing commoner).

Elin · Mar 25, 2014

followjja said:

Jesus told us if you are willing to look. The kingdom has arrived. The word kingdom is used more than 120 times in the four gospels. It was/is very imortant to Jesus.

"Seek first the kingdom of God." Matt 6:33, Luke 12:31 Of course you won't find the kingdom, if you are not looking for it. This is a command of Jesus. Why would Jesus tell us to look for something if it cannot be found?

"But I tell you truly, that there are some standing here who will not TASTE death before they see the kingdom of God come." Matt 16:28, Mark 9:1, Luke 9:27

This was a prophecy of Jesus. The kingdom must have come soon after this statement was made or Jesus would have been a false prophet. If the kingdom of God had not yet arrived when the four gospels were written then why include this prophecy stated by Jesus? Why put him up to unnecessary ridicule?

to be continued....

The Kingdm of God arrived at the completion of Jesus' saving work and the sending of the Holy Spirit.

The Kingdom of God is invisible (Lk 17:20) and within the hearts where Jesus rules and reigns Lk 17:21).

john832 · Mar 25, 2014

Elin said:

Luk 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
Luk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

He was talking to these guys?

Mat 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

Better translation is the Kingdom of God is among you.

Bullinger has...

within = in the midst of, or, among: i.e. already there in the Person of the King (whose presence marks a kingdom). Greek entos, the same meaning as Greek. en (App-104.), with the plural rendered "among" 115 times in N.T. The same meaning as in Mat_12:28. Joh_1:26.

Barclay has...

We are not quite sure what Jesus went on to say. The Greek may mean two things.

(a) It may mean, the kingdom of God is within you. That is to say, the kingdom of God works in men's hearts; it is to produce not new things, but new people. It is not a revolution in material things that we are to look for, but a revolution in the hearts of men.

(b) It may mean, the kingdom of God is among you. That would refer to Jesus himself. He was the very embodiment of the kingdom, and they did not recognize him. It was as if he said, "The whole offer and secret of God are here--and you will not accept them."

Now with Mat 23:13 clearly in mind, you can take your pick.

Elin · Mar 25, 2014

john832 said:

You wrestle with the plain meaning.

ThomistColin · Mar 25, 2014

Personally, I hold that the truth of the Kingdom came at Jacob's Well in Sycchar. "For the time is coming, and NOW is..."

tarzan · Mar 25, 2014

Actually the Kingdom of God on earth began when Jesus was born.

The wise men worshiped Him as King. Herod was threatened knowing that the true King was born. Jesus told the Pharisees when they accused Him of casting out devils by means of having a devil, He said that if He did not cast out devils by a devil, then therefore the Kingdom had come unto them.

RedTent, you say that God says that if you belong to God, you will choose the vehicle that is the most economical without regard for brilliance or any other thing. Why do you limit God to make choices for us purely based upon what we consider to be wise? Why limit God to our understanding? Some have only what they have available. Other times, God may have a will which comes to pass because one chose a vehicle that at first had not seemed to be the wisest decision in our own eyes. Please understand I speak humbly and with much respect sir.

But then, the Kingdom of God found its way to earth many times before the birth of Jesus. Had not the Kingdom come unto the people through prophets?

But then I see what argument the OP desires. It's a silly argument at that. There is a day of Judgment. Jesus Christ will return in the same manner in which He left. He went to prepare for us a place to live. If it weren't so, He would have told us.

But any who say that the completion of the Lord's work is manifest is incorrect. The saving work is continual, for there are still others to be saved. The act indeed has already been performed by the Lord, but if the work were complete, then what are we still doing here? Why are we still suffering and dying? Think about it.

When the kingdom of Babylon was expanding, did that mean that the kingdom of Babylon did not exist until its completion? The same for the empires of Persia, Greece, and Rome. Were they not empires even as they were expanding? And had they not reformations even in the center of their kingdoms as they were expanding?

So then we know that God is expanding the borders of the Kingdom of God, and the expansion is not yet complete, and the reformation is not yet complete. But still we know that the Kingdom of God is with us.

However, because of very little faith, even if professed, we see very little of the Kingdom. As we decrease here, so the borders of the Kingdom are enlarged. Therefore our King increases and we decrease until the fulfilling of all things.

I do not understand how it is difficult for people to comprehend these things. I do not understand the need to argue the silly things and the need to cast stumbling blocks before people. Though at one time I was found in ignorance as well, it certainly was never my intent to be so. I also learned quickly that there must be something wrong with what I was thinking and with what I was saying and I learned quickly to stay silent, though I was still in the wrong mindset, because it was occurring to me at the time that the things that I was saying would cause hurt to people, though I only intended to "lead people to the truth". But in reality, I was angry with people for being hypocrites, and so I had found something with which to accuse people and to bring them down so that they understood what kind of hypocrites they were. I had not realized the level of hypocrite I had to become in order to have my petty vengeance, which I had no idea that is what I was doing until after I had stopped doing it. It is interesting how even we sometimes do not understand what is pulling the reins of our hearts. Thank God for so much mercy. I certainly suffered much of my own devices. Oh my, so much. But He has healed me. He will heal you, if you are able and willing to realize.

Elin · Mar 25, 2014

ThomistColin said:

He began his ministry with "The kingdom of God is near." (Mk 1:16)

tarzan · Mar 25, 2014

That means the Kingdom already existed at that point. And the Kingdom was within Jesus Christ. Wherever He stood, wherever He spoke, the manifestation of the Kingdom of God on earth was near to whomever was near Him. And within His disciples. And His apostles. And His children. And any of us who are in His holy name, Jesus Christ. Is this a hard thing?

Elin · Mar 25, 2014

tarzan said:

No, the kingdom of God is the hearts in whom Jesus rules and reigns.

Timeline · Mar 25, 2014

Jesus also said in Matt 21:43, "Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people, producing the fruit of it. Maybe it was more of a transfer and restructure.

RedTent · Mar 25, 2014

tarzan said:

The kingdom couldn't have begun "when Jesus was born" because Jesus was at the beginning of time, as it says in the first verse of John. The Old Testament is absolutely filled with Jesus, even each referral to blood is referring to the blood of Jesus to come.

I don't think we can live our material life perfectly in the kingdom. Can't you just see a thread titled What is most within the Kingdom, Toyota or Lexus? If we could know what God wants us to do every minute we wouldn't be in our human bodies. We would have perfect understanding of all of God and we don't. What I meant to convey was people putting their understanding of God's plan for them first, even in everything they do everyday.

I don't think scripture tells us the Kingdom is Christ, either. Christ is salvation, through Christ we have the Holy Spirit, there are many things that Christ is. We need Christ to live within the kingdom. We are NOT to add our reasoning to God's word, and God's word does not lead to an understanding that Christ is the beginning or the entire explanation of the kingdom.

And by the way, what is closer to God, Toyota or Lexus? (Surely!! you know I am kidding)

paulsfam4 · Mar 25, 2014

when Jesus was baptized by john. John’s message was one of rebuke and warning. He called for people to repent before the “coming” of the Lord. People responded to his preaching and were baptized. Baptism, or ritual immersion as the Jews described it, was frequent in Israel. Jewish people immersed themselves in ritual baths before entering the holy place as a sign of inner purification. And the Jewish sect of Essenes in the desert at Qumran used ritual baths frequently to represent ritual purification. Converts to Judaism also would undergo such a ritual as part of their initiation into the faith. So “baptism,” as the gospels call it, was fairly common in the religious life of Israel. John, though, was pressing them with an urgency to repent before it was too late: “The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.” It was a warning for people to repent; and repentance meant a change of life, not just feeling sorry for wrongs done. To seal that repentance and commitment, John baptized them (meaning probably that he witnessed their immersion and said appropriate words to them, but probably did not touch them since that was never done).
But John announces that one greater than he was coming, who would baptize them with the Holy Spirit and with fire. There are a lot of interpretations offered for this prediction (as a survey of the commentaries will reveal), but I believe John is referring to the events that we know are connected with the first coming (the giving of the Spirit at Pentecost to baptize all believers into one body [1 Cor. 12:13]) and then with the second coming (a baptism of fire that he says will burn up the wicked). I know there were tongues of fire at Pentecost, but the context of John’s “fire” is the judgment with unquenchable fire. John was really an Old Testament prophet; he would not have known that centuries would pass between the two events. The Old Testament prophets would include in their oracles descriptions of both comings of Christ, as we now know them.

RedTent · Mar 25, 2014

paulsfam4 said:

when Jesus was baptized by john. John’s message was one of rebuke and warning. He called for people to repent before the “coming” of the Lord. People responded to his preaching and were baptized. Baptism, or ritual immersion as the Jews described it, was frequent in Israel. Jewish people immersed themselves in ritual baths before entering the holy place as a sign of inner purification. And the Jewish sect of Essenes in the desert at Qumran used ritual baths frequently to represent ritual purification. Converts to Judaism also would undergo such a ritual as part of their initiation into the faith. So “baptism,” as the gospels call it, was fairly common in the religious life of Israel. John, though, was pressing them with an urgency to repent before it was too late: “The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.” It was a warning for people to repent; and repentance meant a change of life, not just feeling sorry for wrongs done. To seal that repentance and commitment, John baptized them (meaning probably that he witnessed their immersion and said appropriate words to them, but probably did not touch them since that was never done).
But John announces that one greater than he was coming, who would baptize them with the Holy Spirit and with fire. There are a lot of interpretations offered for this prediction (as a survey of the commentaries will reveal), but I believe John is referring to the events that we know are connected with the first coming (the giving of the Spirit at Pentecost to baptize all believers into one body [1 Cor. 12:13]) and then with the second coming (a baptism of fire that he says will burn up the wicked). I know there were tongues of fire at Pentecost, but the context of John’s “fire” is the judgment with unquenchable fire. John was really an Old Testament prophet; he would not have known that centuries would pass between the two events. The Old Testament prophets would include in their oracles descriptions of both comings of Christ, as we now know them.

These are all truths we need to know in order to walk in the kingdom, but these are not THE kingdom. The kingdom of God includes a lot, lot more than you can get in one paragraph. You have to open your heart, soul, and mind a lot further than this.

followjja · Mar 25, 2014

followjja said:

Thanks everybody for your interest in this topic. Jesus gave us some more clues.

1. Jesus was preaching the gospel of the kingdom. Matt 4:23, 9:35, Mark 1:14-15, Luke 16:16 The good news that Jesus preached was about this kingdom.

2. "Repent for the kingdom of God is at hand." Luke 9:2, Mark 1:15, Matt 4:17, 10:7 The kingdom was very near in time. In fact, we can find the exact moment when this kingdom arrived.

3. At the last supper, Jesus said, "for I tell you I will not DRINK again of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes." Luke 22:18 Notice the word "DRINK" again. It is a vital clue that Jesus gave us. Just look for when Jesus drank the fruit of the vine. Yes he did drink of it.

4. At the beginning of the crucifixion" "There they offered him wine to drink mixed with gall, but when he tasted it, he refused to drink it." Matt 27:34, Mark 15:23 He wouldn't drink the wine as it wasn't quite ready for the kingdom to come. Why would two gospel writers include this tidbit of information if it wasn't important?

Here are a couple of other clues that I haven't numbered. A crown of thorns was placed on Jesus (the future king).
He was annointed with oil a few days before the crucifixion in Matt, Mark and John. Samuel annointed both king Saul and king David with oil.
On the cross it was written, "This is the king of the Jews" (each gospel is a bit different on this)

5. After this Jesus knowing that all was now finished, said (to fulfill scripture) "I thirst" A bowl of VINEGAR (some translations say SOUR WINE) stood there, so they put a sponge full of the VINEGA on hyssop and held it to his mouth. When Jesus had RECEIVED the VINEGAR, he said, "It is finished." and he bowed his head and gave up his spirit. John 19:28-30 see also Matt 27:48, Mark 15:36 Please not the three gospel writers recorded this seemingly unimportant fact of the vinegar or sour wine. The kingdom had arrived, when Jesus had tasted and drank the fruit of the vine.

6. Only after the resurrection Jesus rightly say, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me" Matt 28:18 Doesn't a king have all authority?

7. If you don't see the kingdom, perhaps: Jesus speaking to Nicodemus said, "Truly, truly I say to you, unless one is begotten from above, he cannot see the kingdom of God." John 3:3 ( some translations say born again or born from again)

iamsoandso · Mar 25, 2014

4 more verses,,,,,,,luke 22;16,,luke 22;18,,,,,,,,,then compare to,,,luke 24;42-45,,and john 19;30,,,,then consider john 20;17,dont touch me,why?,,,then john 20;27,,,why could he touch him if she couldn't?,,,,these verses go together with the same verses you all are discussing,,,,,,

followjja · Mar 25, 2014

iamsoandso said:

I did not quote the Luke 22:16 and v 18 as "eat of it again" MAY mean eat the passover. But your point is a good one. If he would not eat anyting again until the kingdom arrived--and he did eat the fish and honey later on---then that would also show that the kingdom had arrived.

John 20:17, she could not touch him then as he had not ascended into heavenat that time. In v 27, this was a while later when he told Thomas to touch him, Jesus had ascended between these two instances.

Thanks for your imput.

dcontroversal · Mar 25, 2014

The Kingdom of God arrived with the King...did not Jesus say that it was within you and not observable in it's coming!

when DID the kingdom of God arrive??

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