They kill messengers don't they?

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Yet

Banned
Jan 4, 2014
3,756
69
0
#1
True messengers are driven out. False messengers are worshipped. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.

Col. 2:18 NIV. ' Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of Angels-Greek, Angelo's- messengers, disqualify you....' This is pastor/preacher worship which is idolatry.

The problem is age old. 'Give us a king'. Today 'give us a man'. We must have someone to elevate and adore. The invisible Christ is not quite enough. We must have a mediator between us and Jesus....behold the man......the preacher/pastor.

This is idolatry. Few words here. Ten thousand words will not open the understanding. The Holy Spirit in these last days must do that.

But allow me to indulge though few ears will receive.

1Thess. 2:15 ' they killed The Lord Jesus and the prophets and also drove us out...'

This continues unto this hour in the Babylonian church. When even one man is elevated above others, (a worshipped messenger), , this displaces(kills) Christ and kills(stops), His true messengers.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,196
6,539
113
#2
QUOTE:

This continues unto this hour in the Babylonian church. When even one man is elevated above others, (a worshipped messenger), , this displaces(kills) Christ and kills(stops), His true messengers.

END QUOTE...............

The Babylonia church?

???
 
Mar 23, 2014
435
1
0
#3
Matthew 5:17-23

King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]17 [/SUP]Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.


So no one tilde, or dot of the law? now look under you underwear and see if you circumcised? do you go to the synagogue in Saturdays, and offer sacrifices in the altar like Jesus ordered to Luk 5:12-16 . I am sure the answer is NO.

So what happened?... no a tilde no a dot!
What happened? .... The law was fulfilled in the cross..... so the law of moses is GONE.

So do not worry to much about the OT, concentrate your efforts in the NT
 

Yet

Banned
Jan 4, 2014
3,756
69
0
#4
Those that read the letter then try to obey it hate those that are led of the Spirit.

The priests (followers of the written law) killed the prophets (messengers of Gods spoken word).

The Pharisees(teachers of the law) killed Jesus the living word and many of His disciples.

Today those that study to walk according to the bible hate those that are Spirit filled and led.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,196
6,539
113
#5
Those that read the letter then try to obey it hate those that are led of the Spirit.

The priests (followers of the written law) killed the prophets (messengers of Gods spoken word).

The Pharisees(teachers of the law) killed Jesus the living word and many of His disciples.

Today those that study to walk according to the bible hate those that are Spirit filled and led.
ok...........so is this what you are calling the Babylonia Church?
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,706
3,650
113
#6
Today those that study to walk according to the bible hate those that are Spirit filled and led.
Why do you pit one against the other?
That has to be the most self refuting, contradictory statements I have ever heard...but I don't hate you.
 

clarkthompson

Senior Member
Jul 8, 2012
624
7
18
#7
I have not came across this problem. I look at the pastor of my church as a friend, someone I go to for sound advice for the things I am going thru.
 

Yet

Banned
Jan 4, 2014
3,756
69
0
#8
Your pastor is elevated above the rest. Jesus condemned the clerical/laity system. It stifles both Christ and the folks. It takes away from the every member participation ideal of 1Cor. 12 and14. Jesus said in Matt.20 '....The kings of the Gentiles rule over their subjects but it shall not be so among you...'. Jesus is to be the only one exalted and in charge of the gathering. Diotrephes elevated himself as 'pastor' he would not accept John into his (note possessiveness) group.

Again, when one man sets the agenda and rules over the group, Jesus is forced to take a back seat.

The exalted will be humbled, the humble will be exalted. Jesus came as a servant to serve, not to be served. He set the example by washing their feet then said 'to be a leader, do as I do'.

In all of your NT the single elevated paid pastor cannot be found. We need to stick with His word on this.

So the church has become worshipers of the bible and men. Led by the letter and not by the Spirit for He has been quenched by the elevated leader. Read my first posts to verify what I just said.
 

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
4,225
99
48
#9
True messengers are driven out. False messengers are worshipped. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.

Col. 2:18 NIV. ' Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of Angels-Greek, Angelo's- messengers, disqualify you....' This is pastor/preacher worship which is idolatry.

The problem is age old. 'Give us a king'. Today 'give us a man'. We must have someone to elevate and adore. The invisible Christ is not quite enough. We must have a mediator between us and Jesus....behold the man......the preacher/pastor.

This is idolatry. Few words here. Ten thousand words will not open the understanding. The Holy Spirit in these last days must do that.

But allow me to indulge though few ears will receive.

1Thess. 2:15 ' they killed The Lord Jesus and the prophets and also drove us out...'

This continues unto this hour in the Babylonian church. When even one man is elevated above others, (a worshipped messenger), , this displaces(kills) Christ and kills(stops), His true messengers.
I guess Paul is a false preacher according to your understanding;

Philippians 3
17 Brethren, join in following my example, and note those who so walk, as you have us for a pattern. 18 For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they arethe enemies of the cross of Christ:

And also I suppose Timothy in whom Paul sent to the Corinthians;

1 Corinthians 4
16 Therefore I urge you, imitate me. 17 For this reason I have sent Timothy to you, who is my beloved and faithful son in the Lord, who will remind you of my ways in Christ, as I teach everywhere in every church.

So I guess you totally ignore;
Ephesians 4
11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ,
 

Yet

Banned
Jan 4, 2014
3,756
69
0
#10
These are functions, not upper positions....'it shall not be so among you'. I see you ignore that verse.
I suppose you also ignore 'lord it not over His heritage'.

Note Ephesians says 'pastors' plural, not single paid executive. Someone said these truths are the hardest to get Christians to understand. I'm not putting anyone down. It took me 27 years to wake up and smell the folgers.

Go to A Wilderness Voice in Search of a City to study this out if you r truly interested.
 

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
4,225
99
48
#11
These are functions, not upper positions....'it shall not be so among you'. I see you ignore that verse.
I suppose you also ignore 'lord it not over His heritage'.

Note Ephesians says 'pastors' plural, not single paid executive. Someone said these truths are the hardest to get Christians to understand. I'm not putting anyone down. It took me 27 years to wake up and smell the folgers.

Go to A Wilderness Voice in Search of a City to study this out if you r truly interested.
A pastor who serves out of equality, humility and servitude is biblical, whither you call him head elder or pastor I don't care. Jesus told Peter to take care of His sheep, one guy! Jesus just wouldn't leave the sheep without a shepherd after Peter died.

If a pastor assumed himself above another or congregation, you wouldn't find me there.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,196
6,539
113
#12
These are functions, not upper positions....'it shall not be so among you'. I see you ignore that verse.
I suppose you also ignore 'lord it not over His heritage'.

Note Ephesians says 'pastors' plural, not single paid executive. Someone said these truths are the hardest to get Christians to understand. I'm not putting anyone down. It took me 27 years to wake up and smell the folgers.

Go to A Wilderness Voice in Search of a City to study this out if you r truly interested.
I am SO VERY TIRED of people who claim to be Christian HATING ON PREACHERS/MINISTERS...........sigh........

Romans 10:8) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 .) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 .) For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 .) For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 .) For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 .) For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 .) How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 .) And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

quit hating on those chosen, called, anointed BY GOD to Preach the Gospel, to Shepherd His Flock, to minister to the Church...........

(haters gonna hate.............goodness)
 

Yet

Banned
Jan 4, 2014
3,756
69
0
#13
I can see you guys are not ready yet. We even received a prophesy in '77 'the church is not ready for you yet'. But the day is coming.
 

Yet

Banned
Jan 4, 2014
3,756
69
0
#14
Read Galatians. Who has bewitched you? Answer: the church. The letter kills, the Spirit gives life. The flesh profits nothing. This means striving to obey NT commands and precepts will not profit you. You're getting the cart ahead of the horse. Paul expounded over and over that this life is to be lived by Christ in us both to will and to do of His good pleasure those works He established before the foundations of the world. The father had prepared a body, us, for His Son. We need to discern the body of Jesus.....it is His people, the ekklesia.
Ink on paper is not enough. That's right, I said it. The bible in and of itself is not enough. The first century believers had no KJV, authorized or otherwise, under their arm, yet they turned their little world upside down for the Master.

How in the world? Answer: Christ in them the hope of glory. Filled with the Holy Spirit with no need of man to teach them anything or say 'know the Lord' for they knew that they knew The Lord, He dwelled within them. Those that no longer be tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine were no longer children. They that be led of the Spirit are the sons of God.

Paul pounded this home all day long but few there be that find it. Broad is the way that leads to destruction ( a fruitless life) and the majority travel that dry dusty road. The traditions of men and doctrines of demons have made His word null and void.

The modern church does not turn its surrounding world upside down, but rather the other way around, the world has turned the church upside down.

Man controls what goes on in the 'gathering'. Christ has carved Ichabod on the front door 'the Lord has departed this place'. I mean why should He hang out where He is not wanted or needed. Pastor Onthetake has everything under control.

Where the Spirit of the Lord is there is freedom for all members of His body to function according to 1Cor. 12 and 14 as God commanded. Where the flesh of man is in charge there is no such freedom. We are in bondage to laws and by-laws.

How is it that we have begun in the Spirit to end up trying to live this thing out by following ink on paper? What happened to the Spirit that leads and empowers?

The believers are the house of God, not brink and mortar. Not natural stones, but we are lively stones, built up a spiritual house, every member of His body functioning in the assembly.

I submit that what we call church today is not what the first century believers would recognize as scripturally legal. It has no biblical leg to stand on. No NT reference to draw from to support its existence.

The 'book' worshippers of today are no different than the law keepers of the old covenant, the Pharisees and Sadducees who twisted the scriptures so as to profit from them and keep the folks in religious chains. Then for 2000 years the wolves, false prophets, false teachers, and hirelings that Paul warned about all day long took the lead in exalting themselves over the sheep as 'Diotrephes who loveth to have the preeminence among them(above the folks).'

In a word, when man elevates himself above his fellows, this displaces Christ as Head. This, in turn, quenches the Holy Spirit, relegating Christ to the back of the bus, as it were. This, in turn, forces the flesh to 'carry on' without the Spirit, (think, endless programs to fill the void). This, in turn, causes the folks to die on the vine spiritually, and many don't even know they are dead. 'They have a name saying they are alive, yet they are dead.'

They feed on husks, scrolls of ink on parchment, the letter that killeth, absent the Spirit, absent liberty, absent life.

Please pray about this 1700 year travesty. Paul warned that this would happen after his death, 'after I depart wolves WILL rise up out of your midst and drag people into bondage with them into spiritual darkness'(mine).

Note: he did not say wolves might rise up and take over, he said they WILL take over. But even then, God has always had a remnant that could smell the coffee.

For further study check out A Wilderness Voice in Search of a City and Home
 
Last edited:

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
4,225
99
48
#15
These are functions, not upper positions....'it shall not be so among you'. I see you ignore that verse.
I suppose you also ignore 'lord it not over His heritage'.

Note Ephesians says 'pastors' plural, not single paid executive. Someone said these truths are the hardest to get Christians to understand. I'm not putting anyone down. It took me 27 years to wake up and smell the folgers.

Go to A Wilderness Voice in Search of a City to study this out if you r truly interested.
Perhaps you'd like to expound on this passage;

[h=3]Honor the Elders[/h]17 Let the elders who rule well be counted worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in the word and doctrine. 18 For the Scripture says, “You shall not muzzle an ox while it treads out the grain,”[c] and, “The laborer is worthy of his wages.

Honor:

G5092
τιμή
timē
tee-may'
From G5099; a value, that is, money paid, or (concretely and collectively) valuables; by analogy esteem (especially of the highest degree), or the dignity itself: - honour, precious, price, some.