Dr. Charles Stanley

[homwardbound]

So you you believe what Charles Stanley says here?

[video=youtube;NrhFrQJritc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrhFrQJritc[/video]

That God is faithful to carry on the good work God started in the one that believes yes, now the other side of that, did that person really beleive to begin with, if they Did one can trust God to reveal truth that sets them free from that backslide. If they did not, they continue in as an excuse for to sin, taking this amazing grace for granted and the word says:
Hebrews 2:3 how shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

Stanely is preaching truth, yet leaves out this side of the truth. this I know for fact that those that do believe God. God becomes their teacher to all truth, and that one can't help but to love all whether they beleive or not. is that not what God did through Son for us while we were yet sinners he went to the cross for us in our stead. To do what? Could it be to give us new life in his resurrection in the Spirit of truth (Father)? Proof at Pentecost?

 

[Timeline]

Charles Stanley clearly implies "If they were saved, but live in sin that they are still saved, but just miss out on heavenly benifits"...The bible clearly states a believer does not live in habitual sin. Stanley is using the word "if" not as if their salvation is in question, but as to assume a definite reality.

What he says may be true, but I would be reluctant to say it to some because they may think themselves saved when they are not. Either way, we should always strive to avoid sinful things and to strive for holiness.

 

[homwardbound]

I'm more in line with Greg Laurie on this

[video=youtube;V3elNE7mZXY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3elNE7mZXY[/video]

With most of waht is said, not all, as the same is with Stanley, I see gold nuggets from each
Thanks for that bookends

 

[homwardbound]

><>t<><

Genuine SALVATION will always produce the desire and the ability to do good works.

Good Works will NEVER produce Salvation.

We were SAVED as a gift of GOD through faith that the HOLY SPIRIT HIMSELF PUT IN US, the very moment we first believed, which produces in us (IF IT WAS REAL) a deep conviction of sin and a willingness to surrender to Jesus Christ as LORD which means MASTER. That genuine Salvation (past tense) will become evident in our works. Hence "Work out your own salvation" LITERALLY MEANS "If you are saved, then ACT LIKE IT." That is all possible ONLY BECAUSE the HOLY SPIRIT at the moment of our Salvation brought our once DEAD to the Will of GOD human spirit, to an ETERNAL LIFE of being ALIVE to the Will of GOD. (BORN AGAIN)

Does that answer your question?

Yes work out our own salvation with fear and trembling yes truth, and what does it say next verse? Who does this if we beleive God to do as God said God would, if we belief guess what it is done God did it for us through Son

[h=3]Philippians 2:12-13[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)


[SUP]12 [/SUP]Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. [SUP]13 [/SUP]For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.



[h=3]Philippians 3:10-11[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)


[SUP]10 [/SUP]that I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; [SUP]11 [/SUP]if by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.


[h=3]Colossians 1:21-23[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)


[SUP]21 [/SUP]And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled [SUP]22 [/SUP]in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: [SUP]23 [/SUP]if ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

 

[homwardbound]

Charles Stanley clearly implies "If they were saved, but live in sin that they are still saved, but just miss out on heavenly benifits"...The bible clearly states a believer does not live in habitual sin. Stanley is using the word "if" not as if their salvation is in question, but as to assume a definite reality.

If I am guilty between God and me and maybe a neighbor, Do I need apologize? To who God and neighbor or thank God i am forgiven and tell neighbor I am sorry for acting as if I am not saved, that sign of repentance is showing you agree with God that you need God and are saved and are learning truth over error

If not then one shows they plain and simply do not beleive and have not as of yet, and might not ever. this to me is between God and them, and anyone that has done me wrong are forgiven, by me in response to God for forgiving me already before I was ever born via the cross
Believe, receive and see, becoming a responder over being an initiator

 

[homwardbound]

A prodigal son comes back, that's the key. Stanley preaches you can be prodigal son and never come back, and still be saved.

If they don't then they were not ever saved and those that don't; know this they made their choice no matter how they act, for there are those that act all righteous in belief and are not, for Prostitutes will enter first before the religious zealots acting as if they are something they are not. Be wise as a serpent and harmless as a dove is what i hear

 

[homwardbound]

what if a person died before he has a chance to come back. Or commits the "sin unto Death" Were they still saved, and how could we judge it? and again, the key word is IF THEY WERE SAVED.

God is Faithful to carry out God's promises period, and the ways of this world try and do mess up those that do beleive, but nothing can make God's promises void

 

[homwardbound]

OKAY, I see now that you had a video clip attached that DID NOT SHOW UP on my OPERA Browser.

If anyone knows how to fix that OPERA glitch with flash player videos, please tell me, because I cannot get their support team to answer me.

><>t<><

So, do I agree 100% with Dr. Stanley's conclusions about someone walking away from GOD at a certain point in their life, remains saved?

No, you cannot lose your salvation, BUT a genuine prodigal son will ALWAYS return to the Father.

But what if they NEVER come back, did they LOSE their Salvation?

NO! BECAUSE THAT PROVES THEY NEVER HAD GENUINE SALVATION IN THE FIRST PLACE.


1 John 2:19 (HCSB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] They went out from us, but they did not belong to us; for if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. However, they went out so that it might be made clear that none of them belongs to us.

So if they die before they returned they are not saved is that what you are saying here? Just curious
It sounds as if what you are saying is
That i can make my amends, be all prayed up, go out to the bar and get killed and not go to heaven because I was now not prayed up?
Is that what you are saying?

My Sister died on an over does at 18. Is that evidence she was not saved and therefore is in hell?

 

[homwardbound]

See my post 363. I do not think we can judge that, because only GOD can see the heart, to see if they are prodigal or someone who settled for a false gospel and only thought they were saved.

Yes truly only God is our judge, as Paul said this to those that said Paul used this liberty as a license to sin, told them he is to be judged by no one and that he does not even Judge himself, it is god who does this and Paul is at peace with this, and me so am I and are you and you yet as well.
Our Spirit and God's Spirit testifies to each of us personally to this truth as it is

 

[homwardbound]

I quess that would be up to God to determine, if their repentance and faith was genuine or not.

It is a ridiculous argument that you are making anyway, what if a a person who never professed Christ with his lips nor knew Him, never heard the gospel, they died young, say 20? How would we know if he wouldn't have heard and received Christ later in his life.

God declares that "ALL" will know, all will have been given the conscious choice to either believe or not, and those that choose to not will know the consequence of there choice.
therefore man is without excuse when the day comes for their Judgment no ands ifs or buts

 

[homwardbound]

The problem is that Stanley doesn't know they are saved or not. The fact that Stanley doesn't mention that the prodigal who is "genuinely saved" always comes back. Stanley implies that you can be saved, and live a carnal life until you die and still be saved. My understanding is if you never come back, you were probably never saved to begin with because the bible teaches genuine Christians transform into His likeness.

The fact that Stanley believes you can be saved and live your life contrary to God all your life is what I disagree with.

And for this same reason is why Paul wrote 1 Cor. to the Corinthians to straighten out the heresy they received in taking for granted that they are forgiven, which they are and was never meant to be taken for granted and we can just sin becuause we are forgiven already, that is what they had thought and received a thought from the enemy in high places that said hey why not drink up all the wine and eat all the food, have sex with whomever you want, hearing you are forgiven, you can do it, because you are forgiven.

The forgiven part is 100% correct, but that type of reaction is not in appreciation, rather an excuse to sin. And the Corinthians got the message received and came compassionate and loved their neighbor as Christ has loved them in appreciating being forgiven over taking it for granted

Hebrews 2:3 how shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

 

[VCO]

So if they die before they returned they are not saved is that what you are saying here? Just curious
It sounds as if what you are saying is
That i can make my amends, be all prayed up, go out to the bar and get killed and not go to heaven because I was now not prayed up?
Is that what you are saying?

My Sister died on an over does at 18. Is that evidence she was not saved and therefore is in hell?

Where did you read that, I certainly did not say it. I said ONLY GOD can see the heart to determine who is a prodigal and who is only a psuedo-Christian who has never been saved. IF THEY WERE SAVED, when was the sin of prodigalism paid for, before or after they committed it?

If one GENUINELY WAS SAVED, (ONLY GOD KNOWS THE HEART OF A MAN) and then backslides into prodigalism, they can lose rewards, they can lose crowns, and they certainly can lose spiritual maturity, but they cannot lose their Salvation. WHY NOT? Because it was a FREE GIFT UNEARNED and GOD does not take back what He has given, in fact it is NOT US who HOLDS ON to our Salvation, it is the Father and Jesus Christ. AND THEY WILL NOT LET GO.

John 10:28-29 (HCSB)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever! No one will snatch them out of My hand.
[SUP]29 [/SUP] My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all. No one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

1 Corinthians 3:12-15 (HCSB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] If anyone builds on that foundation with gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay, or straw,
[SUP]13 [/SUP] each one’s work will become obvious, for the day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire; the fire will test the quality of each one’s work.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] If anyone’s work that he has built survives, he will receive a reward.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] If anyone’s work is burned up, it will be lost, but he will be saved; yet it will be like an escape through fire.

Hmmm, never thought of it before, but is a very good verse to support the fact that Salvation has nothing to do with works. It is by GOD's GRACE alone that we are Saved. AND it is by GOD's MERCY alone that we do not get what we deserve.

 

[Bookends]

Where did you read that, I certainly did not say it. I said ONLY GOD can see the heart to determine who is a prodigal and who is only a psuedo-Christian who has never been saved. IF THEY WERE SAVED, when was the sin of prodigalism paid for, before or after they committed it?

If one GENUINELY WAS SAVED, (ONLY GOD KNOWS THE HEART OF A MAN) and then backslides into prodigalism, they can lose rewards, they can lose crowns, and they certainly can lose spiritual maturity, but they cannot lose their Salvation. WHY NOT? Because it was a FREE GIFT UNEARNED and GOD does not take back what He has given, in fact it is NOT US who HOLDS ON to our Salvation, it is the Father and Jesus Christ. AND THEY WILL NOT LET GO.

John 10:28-29 (HCSB)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever! No one will snatch them out of My hand.
[SUP]29 [/SUP] My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all. No one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

1 Corinthians 3:12-15 (HCSB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] If anyone builds on that foundation with gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay, or straw,
[SUP]13 [/SUP] each one’s work will become obvious, for the day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire; the fire will test the quality of each one’s work.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] If anyone’s work that he has built survives, he will receive a reward.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] If anyone’s work is burned up, it will be lost, but he will be saved; yet it will be like an escape through fire.

Hmmm, never thought of it before, but is a very good verse to support the fact that Salvation has nothing to do with works. It is by GOD's GRACE alone that we are Saved. AND it is by GOD's MERCY alone that we do not get what we deserve.

Did you ever hear the verse where you can't serve two masters?

[h=3]God and Possessions[/h]19 “Don’t collect for yourselves treasures[n] on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal. 20 But collect for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys, and where thieves don’t break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
22 “The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eye is good, your whole body will be full of light. 23 But if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. So if the light within you is darkness—how deep is that darkness!
24 “No one can be a slave of two masters, since either he will hate one and love the other, or be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot be slaves of God and of money.

and

1 John 1
5 Now this is the message we have heard from Him and declare to you: God is light, and there is absolutely no darkness in Him. 6 If we say, “We have fellowship with Him,” yet we walk in darkness,we are lying and are not practicing the truth.

One who falls into habitual sin and never comes out, never chastised unto repentance by the Father, was never a child of God to being with. Seems to me they thought the wide path suited them better.

 

[VCO]

Did you ever hear the verse where you can't serve two masters?

God and Possessions

19 “Don’t collect for yourselves treasures[n] on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal.
20 But collect for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys, and where thieves don’t break in and steal.
21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
22 “The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eye is good, your whole body will be full of light. 23 But if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. So if the light within you is darkness—how deep is that darkness!
24 “No one can be a slave of two masters, since either he will hate one and love the other, or be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot be slaves of God and of money.

and

1 John 1
5 Now this is the message we have heard from Him and declare to you: God is light, and there is absolutely no darkness in Him.
6 If we say, “We have fellowship with Him,” yet we walk in darkness,we are lying and are not practicing the truth.

One who falls into habitual sin and never comes out, never chastised unto repentance by the Father, was never a child of God to being with. Seems to me they thought the wide path suited them better.

I agree, GOD does not spank the Devil's kids.

I am not sure this will line up right when I post it, but here is the pyramid IDOL most Americans bow down to:

++++I++++
++++ME++++
+++EGO+++
++SELF++
++PRIDE++
+GREEDY+
"""""""""""

 

[VCO]

I am EXPERIMENTING with a new browser called TORCH. I am abandoning OPERA because after reporting for three month that the YouTube videos and others do not work at all, as it freezes up OPERA, and even links to videos flat do not show up; and Radio stations do not work on OPERA either. I do not use IE any more because it had frequent lock up issues too. So I stumbled across TORCH, and decided to give it a try. Even tho I have been using it for only less than half an hour, so far I like it. Yes I found one of my Country Gospel sites, that would not load, but HEY, they already notified me that they are working on fixing the issue. I have been begging OPERA to fix their issues for three month with NO RETURN RESPONSE.

I am listening to Love 101 FM from Kingston, Jamaica, as I type this, and what a blessing. Love 101

Give me a week or two of using the TORCH browser and I will give you an honest user review. Torch Web Browser - Your All in One Internet Browser

 

[homwardbound]

Think about it:

Jehovah Witnesses think they are saved or will be saved.

Mormons Think they are saved or will be saved.

Christian Science members think they are saved or will be saved .

The followers of Jim Jones and similar psuedo-christian cults thought they were saved.

Those who deny the Deity of Christ think they are saved or will be saved.

Those with $3 worth of God in stuffed in a brown paper bag deep in their pocket where no one can see it, think they are saved or will be saved.

Those who only want a Savior but NOT A LORD to rule over their lives, think they are saved or will be saved.

Those who only acknowledge the stories about Jesus are true think they are saved or will be saved.

Those who think they are earning their Salvation by their works think they will be saved.

They all follow false gospels, AND STILL, they all think they are saved or will be saved.

><>t<><

GOD LOOKS ON THE HEART AND KNOWS BETTER.


Matthew 22:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] "For many are called, but few are chosen."

Thanks and exactly what is it that makes you saved over these others; if you think that you are?
Is not that what each here are searching for security in God, the creator of all
What assurance do I have, that God will save me?

 

[homwardbound]

Where did you read that, I certainly did not say it. I said ONLY GOD can see the heart to determine who is a prodigal and who is only a psuedo-Christian who has never been saved. IF THEY WERE SAVED, when was the sin of prodigalism paid for, before or after they committed it?

If one GENUINELY WAS SAVED, (ONLY GOD KNOWS THE HEART OF A MAN) and then backslides into prodigalism, they can lose rewards, they can lose crowns, and they certainly can lose spiritual maturity, but they cannot lose their Salvation. WHY NOT? Because it was a FREE GIFT UNEARNED and GOD does not take back what He has given, in fact it is NOT US who HOLDS ON to our Salvation, it is the Father and Jesus Christ. AND THEY WILL NOT LET GO.

John 10:28-29 (HCSB)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever! No one will snatch them out of My hand.
[SUP]29 [/SUP] My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all. No one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

1 Corinthians 3:12-15 (HCSB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] If anyone builds on that foundation with gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay, or straw,
[SUP]13 [/SUP] each one’s work will become obvious, for the day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire; the fire will test the quality of each one’s work.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] If anyone’s work that he has built survives, he will receive a reward.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] If anyone’s work is burned up, it will be lost, but he will be saved; yet it will be like an escape through fire.

Hmmm, never thought of it before, but is a very good verse to support the fact that Salvation has nothing to do with works. It is by GOD's GRACE alone that we are Saved. AND it is by GOD's MERCY alone that we do not get what we deserve.

I don't know that is why I asked and do not assume, in order to listen further and not make Judgements that derail us all learning here
Thank you and let every man be a liar, but God does not lie
We are in agreement here

 

[homwardbound]

I agree, GOD does not spank the Devil's kids.

I am not sure this will line up right when I post it, but here is the pyramid IDOL most Americans bow down to:

++++I++++
++++ME++++
+++EGO+++
++SELF++
++PRIDE++
+GREEDY+
"""""""""""

Yep not easy to give up the self, to get out of being the center of attention, Flesh is flesh and Spirit of God is the Spirit of God that does not demand to be the center, which makes Father the Center from Jesus' view and the Son the center from Father's view, interesting yes? Neither one taking credit for self ever! and we are invited in to join in this type of fellowship, praising others over self

 

[VCO]

Thanks and exactly what is it that makes you saved over these others; if you think that you are?
Is not that what each here are searching for security in God, the creator of all
What assurance do I have, that God will save me?

GOD is very specific about what makes one a true Child of GOD.

John 3:5-7 (HCSB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Jesus answered, “I assure you: Unless someone is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Whatever is born of the flesh is flesh, and whatever is born of the Spirit is spirit.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Do not be amazed that I told you that you must be born again.

John 1:12-13 (HCSB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] But to all who did receive Him, He gave them the right to be children of God, to those who believe in His name,
[SUP]13 [/SUP] who were born, not of blood, or of the will of the flesh, or of the will of man, but of God. (born again)

Okay, but receive HIM as WHAT?

Colossians 2:6 (NIV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live in him,

The Word LORD means MASTER, but can I verify that is exactly what the Word of GOD teaches?

Romans 10:9-10 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
[SUP]10 [/SUP] for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

NOTE: IT IS NOT A CONFESSION IF IT HAS NOT ALREADY HAPPENED IN YOUR HEART . It would only be a profession of Jesus as LORD, if you have never actually surrendered to Him in your heart as LORD and Master. A profession of who Jesus is, DOES NOT SAVE, even the Demons professed who Jesus was.

Where else does it describe that submission is HIS Lordship is linked to Salvation.

John 14:15 (HCSB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] “If you love Me, you will keepMy commands. (That is submitting to His Lordship.)

1 John 2:4-5 (HCSB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” yet doesn't keep His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] But whoever keeps His word, truly in him the love of God is perfected. This is how we know we are in Him: (That is submitting to His Lordship.)
Yes the Greek perfect tense of "KEEP" implies a lifestyle of striving to "KEEP". It is talking about the direction of one's Christian WALK, not the PERFECTION of it. NO desire to KEEP His commands, is a clear indication that the person does not even "KNOW HIM" as LORD yet.

What does it mean by spirit must be born of SPIRIT?

Man is make up of three distinct parts just like GOD. We are body, soul, and spirit. Because of Adam's sin, we all inherit a human spirit that is Dead to the will of GOD at natural birth (born in sin). ONLY the Holy Spirit can bring that Dead to the will of GOD human spirit to become Eternally ALIVE to the Will of GOD, (born again). That happens the moment we were first given that Gift of FAITH by HIS GRACE. That Eternally ALIVE to the Will of GOD human spirit thinks too, and desires to do the Will of GOD, starting with receiving JESUS as LORD which means Master. NO we are not perfect at it, and NO we will not become spiritually mature for some time, but as we feed that new Eternally Alive human spirit the Word of GOD it will mature to become more and more like CHRIST. NO I am NOT describing working to earn one's Salvation, that happened the very moment we first believed and is PURELY a Work of the Holy Spirit, and so is receiving Jesus as LORD, purely a work of the HOLY SPIRIT. But like Jesus said, one who has legitimately established that inner person LOVE relationship with HIM as LORD, will want to keep striving to KEEP His commands. It is a lifestyle characteristic of true believers; AND when we fail, we are also characterized as those who willingly confess each new sin as we become aware of it, 1 John 1:9.

So how do I know recognizing that the Spirit in the Human body of Jesus is GOD HIMSELF, AND that fact is a critical part of that Saving Faith?

It says JESUS is the Creator:

Colossians 1:16-19 (HCSB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For everything was created by Him, in heaven and on earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities— all things have been created through Him and for Him.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] He is before all things, and by Him all things hold together.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] He is also the head of the body, the church; He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He might come to have first place in everything.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] For God was pleased ⌊to have⌋ all His fullness dwell in Him,

What does GOD have to say about those who deny the Creator is GOD?

Romans 1:18-22 (HCSB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] For God’s wrath is revealed from heaven against all godlessness and unrighteousness of people who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth,
[SUP]19 [/SUP] since what can be known about God is evident among them, because God has shown it to them.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] For His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen since the creation of the world, being understood through what He has made. As a result, people are without excuse.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] For though they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God or show gratitude. Instead, their thinking became nonsense, and their senseless minds were darkened.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Claiming to be wise, they became fools
2 Corinthians 5:19 (ASV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] to wit, that God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself, not reckoning unto them their trespasses, and having committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

So how do I know that if they believe a different gospel, or different Jesus, they are not born again?

2 Corinthians 11:4 (NKJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted--you may well put up with it!

Galatians 1:6-7 (HCSB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] I am amazed that you are so quickly turning away from Him who called you by the grace of Christ ⌊and are turning⌋ to a different gospel—
[SUP]7 [/SUP] not that there is another ⌊gospel⌋, but there are some who are troubling you and want to change the good news about the Messiah.
Galatians 1:8 (ASV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach unto you any gospel other than that which we preached unto you, let him be anathema.


1 Corinthians 16:22 (ASV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] If any man loveth not the Lord, let him be anathema. Maranatha.

 

[VCO]

I don't know that is why I asked and do not assume, in order to listen further and not make Judgements that derail us all learning here
Thank you and let every man be a liar, but God does not lie
We are in agreement here

I would not have put it that way because of:

1 John 2:4-5 (HCSB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” yet doesn't keep His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

It is my understanding that is the SPECIFIC TYPE OF LIAR that He is talking about in this verse:

Revelation 21:8 (HCSB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But the cowards, unbelievers, vile, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars—their share will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”