Does Leviticus Say Masturbation is Okay?

DavidLOVESsnow · Apr 12, 2014

To make it simple, laws are written on our hearts, correct? I felt bad everytime I did it, so I've stopped again. Besides, it just seems like a cop-out to be honest.

Here is my logic:

If we lust after every women we see, should we marry them all so they're all our wives and we don't commit adultery? - no
If we have a violent nature, should we find ways to be violent instead of bundling it up inside? - no

Basically, my point is is that if you have a problem, you don't just give into it in order to get better at controlling it. What I mean is, you dont play videogames to help stop a videogame addiction, you dont do violent things to curve your violence, etc. So from my understanding, me "doing the deed" is just feeding into the weakness I have for sexual things. Besides, I talked to people on CC and they explained that in intercourse the seedd of copulation isnt always 100% inside.

I apologize if this thread is offensive to some people, but I think it shouldn't be. There are a lot of young Christians who think that everything except intercourse is okay, or that clubbing is oka, or dressing anyways is okay "Galatians 5:19-21". We need to have self control.

As for the people who have argued that it is bad, I appreciate your input. I disagree with some of your reasonings, like saying its all about self, but I agree that it is bad. I don't think that is why it is bad. My main reason I think it is bad, and my understanding, is that you should have control. You should be able to control your desires, not be controlled by them and have to masturbate in order to make yourself have control again. Thats like a drug addict who has to take their drug to stop shaking [or itching if its something like crack cocaine]. Therefore, I think it is bad. I feel it is bad anyways, so that says enough for me.

Thanks again for the help,

David.

P.S

I really don't think any issue regarding Christianity should "not be spoken of". Whether it be masturbation, or anything at all. People can get confused, and they need to know the anwswer. By not allowing people to ask certain questions, people are left in the dark and my do something wrong in God's eyes and we never even tried to help them because what tehy are doing "should not be spoken of".

dcontroversal · Apr 12, 2014

After reading a few lines of thought I pondered if this was a good CC topic or rather or not my pc had been hacked by Larry Flint or Ole Hugh Hefner!

Timeline · Apr 12, 2014

dcontroversal said:

I think it is a good topic, but I am concerned about the age limit for the topic. I am not sure if there is an age requirement on this forum. But other than that, I suppose this is probably one of the best mediums for frank and straightforward discussion.

ji · Apr 13, 2014

Nautilus said:

i'll get to you in a short time..
Meanwhile you can show me if there are verses that are related to promoting perverse ways to do things in the unnatural way from the Holy Scripture.And where did you get the info to do and make it as a right to Practice things immorally even within marriage..Which pagan method or which source told you to do so?,etc

you think i live in a cave and people from the past mentioned in Holy Scripture were neanderthal people(never existed)..

i will list you everything.One of us is going to be corrected.

ji · Apr 13, 2014

DavidLOVESsnow said:

To make it simple, laws are written on our hearts, correct? I felt bad everytime I did it, so I've stopped again. Besides, it just seems like a cop-out to be honest.

Here is my logic:

If we lust after every women we see, should we marry them all so they're all our wives and we don't commit adultery? - no
If we have a violent nature, should we find ways to be violent instead of bundling it up inside? - no

Basically, my point is is that if you have a problem, you don't just give into it in order to get better at controlling it. What I mean is, you dont play videogames to help stop a videogame addiction, you dont do violent things to curve your violence, etc. So from my understanding, me "doing the deed" is just feeding into the weakness I have for sexual things. Besides, I talked to people on CC and they explained that in intercourse the seedd of copulation isnt always 100% inside.

I apologize if this thread is offensive to some people, but I think it shouldn't be. There are a lot of young Christians who think that everything except intercourse is okay, or that clubbing is oka, or dressing anyways is okay "Galatians 5:19-21". We need to have self control.

As for the people who have argued that it is bad, I appreciate your input. I disagree with some of your reasonings, like saying its all about self, but I agree that it is bad. I don't think that is why it is bad. My main reason I think it is bad, and my understanding, is that you should have control. You should be able to control your desires, not be controlled by them and have to masturbate in order to make yourself have control again. Thats like a drug addict who has to take their drug to stop shaking [or itching if its something like crack cocaine]. Therefore, I think it is bad. I feel it is bad anyways, so that says enough for me.

Thanks again for the help,

David.

P.S

I really don't think any issue regarding Christianity should "not be spoken of". Whether it be masturbation, or anything at all. People can get confused, and they need to know the anwswer. By not allowing people to ask certain questions, people are left in the dark and my do something wrong in God's eyes and we never even tried to help them because what tehy are doing "should not be spoken of".

you did nothing wrong.i admire your courage to change and know things better

ji · Apr 14, 2014

Nautilus said:

am doing a complete scan of the Holy Bible.
And already from Genesis itself i get results.
This will take a little time,since the results are huge.(yea,you might be thinking good riddance,but no am doing this for others who read this,i have seen 'smarty pants' like you before also)

But meanwhile i need to know if you're still here and curious.
And this is not for you alone,but to any who think other than natural ways is ok.

So i will send things in detail once i see reply for what i asked too,which i have repeated below in this comment.

So chew on this(the link below) for now:-
Oral Sex in Marriage
[nothing filthy in this like,so don't get scared seeing the title of the link]
This is just about one pagan method or unnatural way.Just to give a head start.

Ignore the 'tobit part'.Read in connection with the Galatians verses in the end and the Reality related to abnormal practices.
And its exactly the same probs i thought which, the person who wrote the article has written based on Reality.

Yeah the article is from something related to a catholic article.But wow,i must say wow! to how early 'catholics' had this much discernment but the present generation from even protestants haven't got this much knowledge.

The main thing is about discernment.

Glad you brought this up.

i recently thought too much reasoning is bad,but i think sometimes its needed for latter Good.

Meanwhile like i already mentioned above,you can show me if there are verses that are related to promoting perverse ways to do things in the unnatural way from the Holy Scripture.And where did you get the info to do and make it as a right to practice things immorally even within marriage..Which pagan method or which source told you to do so?,etc

we can proceed mutually regarding this?
i think the link i gave is already proof enough for many to DISCERN

There is a chance for not getting a reply for this.
So your silence to this comment shows that you are not interested anymore and you are afraid to talk more related to this.
That means i don't need to waste time..seen a lot of 'short term' curious people like you.
And i hope people with doubts on things like this including the person who started this thread get some satisfactory results through the link i have provided which can mold their life better and have a better walk with God.Also i hope and Pray to God that people with sensitive issues are able to detect 'troll's better and look at people who can give solutions,in order to NOT run in circles without knowing the way out.

Try browsing the internet related to this articles that compares with Holy Scripture..
Also use other search engines other than 'silly google'..you will also be able to find answers related.
It all depends on how much you crave for God's Holiness.
Struggles doesn't matter,how much you 'desire for God' matters,..be it married or unmarried.
am getting married soon,but with God will that marriage move ahead(even if there are struggles) in decent ways.
(yea,i know ....its my personal life,but to show that it matters)
Because my ways are all filthy.Same with anyone who thinks 'i dont care about scripture,in my personal and married life i will be like the way i want it' -that's not right.self-pride is the root of all this.
God gives everything,and He knows how to take also.

God Bless all

note:-This is indeed a sensitive issue but an important issue as many get lost here in Christian walk,trying to find a way out.And rarely people give suggestions and such are spiritually stoned to death by people like you and condemnation preachers.!
No hate issue,but talking about reality..
So no offence meant,i have seen a lot of people getting isolated because of sensitive issues like this be it in Church or somewhere else.

Speaking of which brings me to remembrance the woman who had the 'issue of blood' and suffered with it for long years and in the hope of getting Healed she secretly touched the cloth Jesus wore(she was so terrified with the sensitivity of the problem that she didn't have the courage to discuss openly.And when she came and fell down at His feet realizing Jesus became aware of the virtue that went out from Him,.......Jesus might have felt compassionate to Her
..That one thing we don't get often in Christendom which leads to coldness of heart and thus even pagan practices in every sort gets into every path a Christian takes).

Nautilus · Apr 14, 2014

I've looked around some myself and the ones I'v e found completely follow the anyuthing goes between two married and long aas there is mutual consent.

What is a Christian couple aloowed to do during sex?

What does the BIble say about oral sex?

And those sites aren't catholic. And I'll say this up front I'm not looking to have my mind changed just to help people realize that your narrow opinion isnt the only one available within Christianity.

dcontroversal · Apr 14, 2014

I am thinking that D.L.S has been to the doctor with (tennis) elbow..........

YEAH I KNOW>>>>>>>>!

ji · Apr 14, 2014

Nautilus said:

Narrow is the way brother.
And i said it was catholic because of the first verse mentioned,but i have to say that its true(that verse from tobit).wife/Husband should not consider each other like objects for lusting.

If a couple goes and drinks(be merry in it) in their house and promote it to other couples,would you correct them?Is it the same as drinking wine described in Holy Scripture?
am not saying that couples shouldn't be with each other and keep distance and do everything mechanically.
No.That's not what i meant.

" Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.
But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment." 1 corinth 7:5,6 KJV

If couples Pray,what is Permissible by God also is a must.
you cannot do things in unnatural ways if you have ever developed or tried to develop a habit to Pray more than 1 hour.Its all about Love and holding each others hands,not just Physical 'making Love' alone.

i came this far in life after getting enough chastisement from God.And the marks i carry is enough evidence for me,and from my own views regarding this topic here was something like you had,maybe even worse.but when i came to God,God made me respect me more as His creation and my future wife also not as a lust able object but Love her even if its hard..
Rest God handles.Its the person who says 'i don't care,i want it this way..even if Holy Scripture is against it' that doesn't have the proper understanding.

But you can have your personal views.i have no prob nor am i some one to judge you.The Judge is going to come who will Judge all of us in His Perfect Just ways.

Only prob here(regarding your case,not in general) is you imposing or telling others that its ok to do it as one pleases.
A person who Prays(even weeps when Holy Spirit comes in more Power and Anointing) to God for long time(sitting,working,Praying,doing household things) no matter where they are in their life;
even thinking of unnatural ways will make them feel like vomiting.Sorry,had to say this..
Just for others who are going to read this(to understand the right way).

i have nothing offensive against you nor am i taking time for all this to get more reputation here(don't need any,Christ is enough).

May God Bless you and take you to more Revelations in Him and Give you a Heart to Pray more, that Strengthens us even if a troop marches against us.(nothing off topic in that,its for you)

Timeline · Apr 14, 2014

Some say that you have to think about women and lust to ... . But when I was young, All that was required was waking up, something brushing my leg. Now that I am older...not quite that quick anymore, but I still don't think you must lust after other women. Let me just say this, sometimes my body thinks it is time and my wife thinks that it is not. Something's got to give. When Paul said that I should get married to avoid giving into sin, He forgot to mention that sometimes the one you married will not be interested.

ji · Apr 14, 2014

Timeline said:

i don't think Paul forgot,we forget that it's all about Love.
Speaking of which how much i regret of my past and its various lusts.

sparkman · Aug 28, 2014

I find it crazy that some above think that anything a Christian can do will cause them to lose their salvation, if they are truly saved. God knows the beginning from the end, and knows every sin you will ever commit at the time you are saved. He gave you eternal life, not probationary "eternal life". Everyone needs to examine themselves to determine if they are in the faith to start with, though.

John Piper is a sound teacher and doesn't speak with vile, disrespectful language like Mark Driscoll. He's a good source of information.

Regarding this topic, I heard a message from John Piper about oral sex that made sense. I think the same four principles below would apply to all types of sexual activity within the marital relationship. If a couple is not married, these activities are fornication, and there isn't any excuse for fornication, period.

Here's the URL:

Is Oral Sex Okay? | Desiring God

The following is a transcript of the audio.
It’s episode number 400. Such a milestone should be marked with an epic episode. You ask the questions, I offer them to Pastor John, and he answers them. That’s how it works on the Ask Pastor John podcast. We get a lot of questions about relationships, dating, marriage, and of course sex. And that leads to episodes that may not be suitable for all listeners and are really designed to be listened to by married couples. Such is the case today. In the last month ten questions have arrived on the question of oral sex. The question is always the same: Pastor John, is this practice permissible in a Christian marriage, or is it always sinful?

Questions relating to sexual intimacy should, I think, be handled with what you might call verbal modesty, rather than shocking or crass words. I think dressing and talking in immodest ways are both ways. So that is kind of governing some of my language now.
These are real concerns. I am ok with this question. It is a little bit, you know, difficult and sensitive, but it is ok. People want biblical guidance and so here is my effort at biblical wisdom. First of all I am assuming the question is only relating to people who are married when I give this counsel. I think it is wrong outside marriage. And we can talk about that another time more extensively. But here is the short answer. Why? Oral sex is even more intimate and delicate, it seems, then copulation. And we know this because even married couples are wondering if they should go there. It is as if it is a stage of intimacy that may not even be proper for married people. And so to think it can be an innocent substitute for copulation so people can obey the letter of the law outside marriage is a mirage. That is the first observation.
In marriage here is what I would say. If oral sex is wrong, I can think of four possible reasons it would be wrong. I will name them and then I will ask this question. Do those four things exist?

It would be wrong if it were prohibited in the Bible.
It would be wrong if it were unnatural.
It would be wrong if it were unhealthy or, that is, harmful.
It would be wrong if it were unkind.

So let’s take those one at a time.

Number one, I don’t think oral sex is explicitly prohibited in any biblical command. If the Bible pro-scribes it, it would have to be by principle and not by an explicit command.

Number two, is it unnatural? This is a tricky one. The male and female genitals are so clearly made for each other that there is a natural fitness or beauty to it. What about oral sex? Now you might jump to the conclusion and say: Nope, that is not natural, but I am slow to go there because of what the Proverbs and the Song of Solomon say about a wife’s breasts. This is kind of an analogy. So consider this. It seems to me nothing is more natural than a baby snuggling in his mother’s arms drinking at her breast. That is what breasts are. They are designed to feed babies. So is there anything physically natural about a husband’s fascination with his wife’s breasts? Well, you might say no. That is not what breasts are for. But Proverbs 5:19 says: Let her breasts fill you at all times with delight. Be intoxicated always with her love. And Song of Solomon 7:7–8 are even more explicit, speaking of the woman: Your stature is like a palm tree and your breasts are like its clusters. I say I will climb the palm tree and lay hold of its fruit. Oh, may your breasts be like clusters of the vine.
Well, even though there is very little anatomical correlation between a man’s hands or his lips and his wife’s breasts, it surely seems to be, quote, natural, in another way, namely built in delight and desire that God in his Word seems to commend for our marital enjoyment. So I ask: Well, might there be similar desires for oral sex or other kinds of sex? So I doubt that we should put a limit on a married couple based on the claim of it being unnatural. That is risky, but that is where I come down on the naturalness of it.

Here is number three. Is it unhealthy or harmful. Well, it certainly might be if there are any sexually transmitted diseases present. And it could be performed in harmful ways. And so the couple needs to be very honest and caring by not taking risks that would be unloving.

Which leads to the last one, number four: Is it unkind? Now I think this one is probably the one that touches the rawest nerve and the one that has the greatest impact. Will you pressure your spouse for oral sex if he or she finds it unpleasant? If so, then you are unkind. And it is a sin to be unkind. Ephesians 4:2. Be kind to one another. But the key word here is pressure. I know that 1 Corinthians 7:4 says the wife does not have authority over own body, but the husband does. Likewise, the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. And the context there is sex. So what does that mean practically? Well, it means that both the husband and the wife have the right to say to the other: I would like to blank. And both of them have the right to say: I would rather not blank. And in a good marriage, the biblically beautiful marriage, both of them seek to outdo the other in showing kindness.

So those are my principles, Tony, that would guide, I think, the Christian couple in this matter of oral sex.

The_highwayman · Aug 28, 2014

Animus said:

You should run from this guy, he has been asked by his own elders to step down and is facing several counts of sexual harassment, got caught lying and using church funds for other things

homwardbound · Aug 28, 2014

DavidLOVESsnow said:

Romans 14:10-23New International Version (NIV)[SUP]10 [/SUP]You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister[SUP][a][/SUP]? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. [SUP]11 [/SUP]It is written:
“‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord,
‘every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will acknowledge God.’”[SUP][b][/SUP]

[SUP]12 [/SUP]So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister. [SUP]14 [/SUP]I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean. [SUP]15 [/SUP]If your brother or sister is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy someone for whom Christ died. [SUP]16 [/SUP]Therefore do not let what you know is good be spoken of as evil. [SUP]17 [/SUP]For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, [SUP]18 [/SUP]because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and receives human approval.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. [SUP]21 [/SUP]It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother or sister to fall.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who does not condemn himself by what he approves. [SUP]23 [/SUP]But whoever has doubts is condemned if they eat, because their eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.[SUP][c][/SUP]

homwardbound · Aug 28, 2014

Actually not just the food chapter it is not limited to food only, you decide, yet, love your neighbor as God loves you
Eph. 3:16-18

sparkman · Aug 28, 2014

Agreed regarding Mark Driscoll. If what I've read concerning him is true, he should be ashamed of himself..including his demeaning language concerning fat people and those who struggle with same sex attraction and effeminacy.

I didn't hear anything on sexual harassment, lying or misusing church funds. He speaks of sex in a vile unchristian manner.

princeofpeace · Aug 28, 2014

ji said:

I'd totally buy this T-shirt !!

Nick01 · Aug 28, 2014

DavidLOVESsnow said:

So I wont lie, my viewpoint on this was that it was bad. However, I came upon this verse again. I used to see it differently [we're talking a year ago when I first started reading the Bible]. However, after reading it, I noticed something:

Leviticus 15:16-18

King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]16 [/SUP]And if any man's seed of copulation go out from him, then he shall wash all his flesh in water, and be unclean until the even.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And every garment, and every skin, whereon is the seed of copulation, shall be washed with water, and be unclean until the even.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]The woman also with whom man shall lie with seed of copulation, they shall both bathe themselves in water, and be unclean until the even.

If you read it, it differentiates semen going out from him and semen being on his clothing. Also, semen being on his wife. This makes me think that either it is okay for people to do sexual things besides just straight intercourse. So, what do you think? Does this make masturbation okay?

Personally, I always thought Sodomy = Masturbation, Oral sex, etc. Now I am curious. So please, write your responses I am curious as to everyone's perspective.

- David

P.S

Im studying for my finals tomorrow so yea, I might not respond super fast .

I don't think the Bible prescribes intercourse only. But, by the same token, I don't see how this passage could possibly condone masturbation, or at least what most people mean by masturbation. It is clear the activity described in this passage is in the context of a male-female relationship, not a man by himself.

homwardbound · Aug 29, 2014

princeofpeace said:

Everything changes except principles

homwardbound · Aug 29, 2014

We all are born to come to puberty and be led by flesh a lot to the point of not loving or fight and stay loving

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