I think I finally got the message loud and clear today: I don't belong in institutional churches. I was going to a church that just got a visiting pastor a month ago from overseas who came in and called himself a prophet. He proceeded to milk the people of their money-- two offerings a Sunday, to brag almost non-stop of his spiritual conquests, to teach what he calls special 'mysteries' that others don't know, and to hint to the congregation that on some level he's God. This guy was fake from day one, and he knew that I knew. But after the Lord made it clear that I don't belong in the extremely tight confines of institutional church and that I'd be leaving this church soon (didn't know it'd be like this), I finally got the left boot of fellowship today. Well... several left boots.
The prophet allows people to interact during the service. He prefers to be the only one speaking and lets people ask questions because he wants to be the savior with all the answers. (He gave my friend a fake word our first day there; that didn't help his credibility which was to be at 2% at the most.) So, when he said today that women can't be pastors, apostles, prophets, etc., I raised my hand. Most people just speak up, but I only raised my hand to show goodwill since I already knew that he hated my eyes looking through his facade. With a really pained look on his face, he raised his arm as if it was in a cast and pointed at me to speak. Again, knowing that he preferred I kept my mouth shut, I asked him if I could speak. Looking like he had sudden constipation, he said I could... but then he said I must stand to address him as everyone who addresses him must stand. I asked if I could remain seated, but he demanded that I stand. I mumbled something special about him as I stood up, then I began to explain to him that if women could be ministers in the OT, then the NT Law of Grace must be even more lenient. The women in church all agreed pretty vigorously (which was surprising since they all agreed with what he said since they felt obligated to this 'prophet'), and even some men nodded. Gee, but everyone was quiet except me. I continued, putting Paul's statement that women not teach in perspective. When this self-important waste of space (not very godly, but honest) realized that someone had read their Bible too, he went into attack mode. It was then that he told me to sit down and shut up. The women hoped I would keep speaking; the men were nervous and urged me to sit which I did, explaining all the way down that I wasn't trying to start an argument but was addressing what he said. When this prophet saw that he was losing his hold on the people, as people were murmuring and all that, he told me that my punishment for speaking against him (well, I certainly didn't feel I'd spoken against him though I wouldn't mind throwing him out of a moving car... excuse my honesty) was that I must remain standing the rest of the service or leave. Because I did neither, he sicked the usher on me. Still explaining my intention as I was led out, this prophet began to pretty much slander me. I'd had it and called him a false prophet who required and stole the people's worship and money, etc. I said his falsehood will surface in time. The church pastor, his loyal follower, had had it and ran at me to shove me out the church. There was a real commotion as four people laid hands on me (and not for prayer), restraining and pushing and shoving and trying to restrain the pastor from growing more hands that he could put on me. The pastor kept threatening to lay hands on me (as if he hadn't already) which I would've welcomed if I didn't respect people in authority (just being honest). We sort of tumbled out into the street (what people would've thought if they knew this was 'church' for us) as they tried to keep the pastor, who kept assuring me that he wasn't scared of me (as if a frightened person is a good opponent), from reaching me. After they restrained him and took himself inside, after his wife threatened to call the police on me, they told me I must leave and never return. I wasn't unhappy at the prospect.
Later on, two people from church and my friend said that agreed with me. At least two people (one a minister in the church) said that they didn't like what that were witnessing in the church in general and would not return. I didn't conduct myself in the godliest fashion, but I certainly wasn't feeling condemned at all.
In summer '12, I was standing outside a church that did a lot of prophetic stuff, waiting to go in for the service when the Lord (Jesus) began to speak to me. He told me clearly to leave that church and that He would lead me to a fellowship of likeminded believers whom He affectionately called, "The Lord's people" several times. When I returned to institutionai church looking for this fellowship, He reminded me of what the angel said to those who went to Jesus' tomb to find Him: "Why do you seek the living (Jesus) among the dead (institutional churches that keep Jesus at a distance when their programs)." I didn't get it and kept looking. A few days ago, He made it clear that I'd be leaving the church I got put out of today. I got put out, and now I get it. The truth is that something is either real or it's not; churches today give God a very little space to actually do anything (worship, sermon, and ending prayer) because they want to keep full control of all aspects of their lives. Even practically it doesn't make sense to pay loads for a building and even more to maintain it weekly but only use it once or two days or just several hours a week. When you start asking questions or state that you want something more realistic, you end up rocking the boat.
My friend had told me about a good book about how God has abandoned and literally left church as we know it. (I don't think it's very coincidental that most times I was in church and had to talk to God about anything important, I literally had to step outside the church where He was basically waiting. (This happened in the above experience I mentioned where the Lord told me to leave, in Rochester in '06, at a Messianic church in '12, and in another church last year.)) I was ordering this book on my phone from Amazon when the fiasco in the church started. I don't know about false prophets, but I think that was pretty prophetic! Here's the link: Amazon.com: Jesus Has Left the Building (9780971804081): Paul Vieira: Books.
Anyone else spoken up and gotten the left boot of fellowship? At least I finally know without a doubt that HD institutional church isn't for me. The worst part is that it's not for the Lord either.
The prophet allows people to interact during the service. He prefers to be the only one speaking and lets people ask questions because he wants to be the savior with all the answers. (He gave my friend a fake word our first day there; that didn't help his credibility which was to be at 2% at the most.) So, when he said today that women can't be pastors, apostles, prophets, etc., I raised my hand. Most people just speak up, but I only raised my hand to show goodwill since I already knew that he hated my eyes looking through his facade. With a really pained look on his face, he raised his arm as if it was in a cast and pointed at me to speak. Again, knowing that he preferred I kept my mouth shut, I asked him if I could speak. Looking like he had sudden constipation, he said I could... but then he said I must stand to address him as everyone who addresses him must stand. I asked if I could remain seated, but he demanded that I stand. I mumbled something special about him as I stood up, then I began to explain to him that if women could be ministers in the OT, then the NT Law of Grace must be even more lenient. The women in church all agreed pretty vigorously (which was surprising since they all agreed with what he said since they felt obligated to this 'prophet'), and even some men nodded. Gee, but everyone was quiet except me. I continued, putting Paul's statement that women not teach in perspective. When this self-important waste of space (not very godly, but honest) realized that someone had read their Bible too, he went into attack mode. It was then that he told me to sit down and shut up. The women hoped I would keep speaking; the men were nervous and urged me to sit which I did, explaining all the way down that I wasn't trying to start an argument but was addressing what he said. When this prophet saw that he was losing his hold on the people, as people were murmuring and all that, he told me that my punishment for speaking against him (well, I certainly didn't feel I'd spoken against him though I wouldn't mind throwing him out of a moving car... excuse my honesty) was that I must remain standing the rest of the service or leave. Because I did neither, he sicked the usher on me. Still explaining my intention as I was led out, this prophet began to pretty much slander me. I'd had it and called him a false prophet who required and stole the people's worship and money, etc. I said his falsehood will surface in time. The church pastor, his loyal follower, had had it and ran at me to shove me out the church. There was a real commotion as four people laid hands on me (and not for prayer), restraining and pushing and shoving and trying to restrain the pastor from growing more hands that he could put on me. The pastor kept threatening to lay hands on me (as if he hadn't already) which I would've welcomed if I didn't respect people in authority (just being honest). We sort of tumbled out into the street (what people would've thought if they knew this was 'church' for us) as they tried to keep the pastor, who kept assuring me that he wasn't scared of me (as if a frightened person is a good opponent), from reaching me. After they restrained him and took himself inside, after his wife threatened to call the police on me, they told me I must leave and never return. I wasn't unhappy at the prospect.
Later on, two people from church and my friend said that agreed with me. At least two people (one a minister in the church) said that they didn't like what that were witnessing in the church in general and would not return. I didn't conduct myself in the godliest fashion, but I certainly wasn't feeling condemned at all.
In summer '12, I was standing outside a church that did a lot of prophetic stuff, waiting to go in for the service when the Lord (Jesus) began to speak to me. He told me clearly to leave that church and that He would lead me to a fellowship of likeminded believers whom He affectionately called, "The Lord's people" several times. When I returned to institutionai church looking for this fellowship, He reminded me of what the angel said to those who went to Jesus' tomb to find Him: "Why do you seek the living (Jesus) among the dead (institutional churches that keep Jesus at a distance when their programs)." I didn't get it and kept looking. A few days ago, He made it clear that I'd be leaving the church I got put out of today. I got put out, and now I get it. The truth is that something is either real or it's not; churches today give God a very little space to actually do anything (worship, sermon, and ending prayer) because they want to keep full control of all aspects of their lives. Even practically it doesn't make sense to pay loads for a building and even more to maintain it weekly but only use it once or two days or just several hours a week. When you start asking questions or state that you want something more realistic, you end up rocking the boat.
My friend had told me about a good book about how God has abandoned and literally left church as we know it. (I don't think it's very coincidental that most times I was in church and had to talk to God about anything important, I literally had to step outside the church where He was basically waiting. (This happened in the above experience I mentioned where the Lord told me to leave, in Rochester in '06, at a Messianic church in '12, and in another church last year.)) I was ordering this book on my phone from Amazon when the fiasco in the church started. I don't know about false prophets, but I think that was pretty prophetic! Here's the link: Amazon.com: Jesus Has Left the Building (9780971804081): Paul Vieira: Books.
Anyone else spoken up and gotten the left boot of fellowship? At least I finally know without a doubt that HD institutional church isn't for me. The worst part is that it's not for the Lord either.
