What Mormons believe

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fatboys

Guest
#1
I am a active LDS member I was surfing the internet under the tag Mormon and this website came up. I did get a chuckle over what you think we believe and this just confirms the statement that a little knowledge is dangerous I know your intentions are sincere but as the other member stated if you want to know what we really believe ask one. If I wanted to find out what you believe does it make sense to you that I would seek out an ex member who wrote a book your beliefs and all the hypocritical people that live within your religion. Or even better say that a person could all the truth from someone that literally hates your religion.
There many here that probably believe that the bible is infallible. There are those here that believe that the very church which compiled the bible is a pagan religion. I have never understood why those of you that believe this can have any confidence that the bible is without mistakes and then believe that all of the scriptures found its way in the book of canon and take the man made understanding of the very character of God from pagans
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#2
how do you reconcile this:

Since then we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus, the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession.
(Hebrews 4:14)

with the Mormon practice of ordaining "high priests" as outlined in D&C 107:65-66, and particularly D&C 107:70-71 which describes that the 'Mormon high priest' should be a literal descendant of Aaron?

aren't you rejecting Christ as your high priest?

why does the Mormon church reject the priesthood of Jesus in favor of the Levites? in D&C 107:76 again it is specifically stated that a descendant of Aaron should preside over your congregations. do you deny that Jesus has become our high priest, and that there has been a changing of the priesthood? do you say that this angel whose likeness decorates the top of your temples has abrogated the scripture?

does Jesus not yet live, that his office must be filled by some human?

it is good to have an actual Mormon here, so we can hear what the LDS really teaches, instead of hearsay.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#3
For every high priest chosen from among men is appointed to act on behalf of men in relation to God,
to offer gifts and sacrifices for sins.

(Hebrews 5:1)

Jesus has gone as a forerunner on our behalf,
having become a high priest forever after the order of Melchizedek.

(Hebrews 6:20)

the Catholic church's practices bother me just as much as the Mormon's in this regard.
:(
 
U

Ugly

Guest
#4
I am a active LDS member I was surfing the internet under the tag Mormon and this website came up. I did get a chuckle over what you think we believe and this just confirms the statement that a little knowledge is dangerous I know your intentions are sincere but as the other member stated if you want to know what we really believe ask one. If I wanted to find out what you believe does it make sense to you that I would seek out an ex member who wrote a book your beliefs and all the hypocritical people that live within your religion. Or even better say that a person could all the truth from someone that literally hates your religion.
There many here that probably believe that the bible is infallible. There are those here that believe that the very church which compiled the bible is a pagan religion. I have never understood why those of you that believe this can have any confidence that the bible is without mistakes and then believe that all of the scriptures found its way in the book of canon and take the man made understanding of the very character of God from pagans
Funny you come here trashing 'our religion' when every Mormon i've seen has tried desperately to tie LDS into Christianity. Even when Christians deny LDS as part of our faith, LDS always argue and take offense for being denied any connection with Christianity.
Coming to this site to preach a non-Christian doctrine, or just to trash what we believe, is a surefire way to get banned. Not to mention a sign of weak character.
 
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fatboys

Guest
#5
Funny you come here trashing 'our religion' when every Mormon i've seen has tried desperately to tie LDS into Christianity. Even when Christians deny LDS as part of our faith, LDS always argue and take offense for being denied any connection with Christianity.
Coming to this site to preach a non-Christian doctrine, or just to trash what we believe, is a surefire way to get banned. Not to mention a sign of weak character.
Who am I trashing, I asked a question about the bible. Are you saying that from what I have read that my question is more harsh than what I have read others say about the LDS church? All I said was that there are those in mainstream Christianity which believe that those who compiled the bible were pagans, and if this is true how can you be confident that the bible is infallible, as well as the creed which came about by the same group?
 
Dec 18, 2013
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#6
Lol are you implying the Bible characters that wrote the Bible are pagans? Seems to me they are all believers in God from Moses to John.

Now in terms of mormonism though, I do wonder how Mormons can trust Joseph Smith whom was a freemason pagan and then created a false gospel either of his own devices or because some being called Maroni told him to in the 1800s AD.

I don't mind mormon people though, I just think they should give up on the Book of Baal and re-embrace the Bible. Mormons have a leg up on the other pagans. Unlike the other pagans who have to totally re-do their thinking, all a mormon pagan must do is drop the dead weight of Smith and retain the Bible. I think more of the fault lays with Mormon Temple members whom are the elites in the pyramid scheme of mormonism and perpetuate this fantasy rather than the commonfolk of the Mormon Church who know not any better.
 
F

fatboys

Guest
#7
how do you reconcile this:

Since then we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus, the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession.
(Hebrews 4:14)

with the Mormon practice of ordaining "high priests" as outlined in D&C 107:65-66, and particularly D&C 107:70-71 which describes that the 'Mormon high priest' should be a literal descendant of Aaron?

aren't you rejecting Christ as your high priest?

why does the Mormon church reject the priesthood of Jesus in favor of the Levites? in D&C 107:76 again it is specifically stated that a descendant of Aaron should preside over your congregations. do you deny that Jesus has become our high priest, and that there has been a changing of the priesthood? do you say that this angel whose likeness decorates the top of your temples has abrogated the scripture?

does Jesus not yet live, that his office must be filled by some human?

it is good to have an actual Mormon here, so we can hear what the LDS really teaches, instead of hearsay.
I am not trying to deflect but who wrote Hebrews? It is attributed to Paul, but it is doubtful that he was the author..

I will try and explain. During the time of Moses, God gave to Israel two orders of priesthoods. One was the Levitical order, and the other was the Aaronic order. The levitical order was given to the Levites as their inheritance.. Each of the eleven other tribes had one twelfth of the tribe of Levi to carryon the physical ministrants of Israel. The Aaronic order was given to those that could do work in the Holies of Holies in the Tabernacle. It was a higher priesthood calling. Moses had an even Higher priesthood which he had gotten from his Father in law who was a Midianite from the linage of Abraham. So Moses was a Levite, yet he also held a higher priesthood.


The first two lower priesthood were given to Israel as a preparatory priesthood and was given to Israel because they were not willing to live in a higher order. If you remember when Moses went to Mt. Sinai to get the law. When Moses returned, Israel had got wild. Moses destroyed those laws, and went to get a lower law, or the spoon fed laws from God. The Ten Commandments. He then introduced the priesthood to Israel. At one time they had the Priesthood because Jacob received it from his father who had gotten it from his father who paid tithes to Melchizedec a High Priest.


Before Jesus started his ministry, he went to a man by the name of John the Baptist. Why? Baptism is unto repentance. Jesus was perfect and had not disobeyed God, and therefore did not need to be Baptized unto repentance. John said that it was he who needed to be baptized of him. And Jesus said that he needed to be baptized to fulfill all righteousness. John was not a High priest after the order of Melchizedec. He was a literal descendant of Aaron because his father was a high Priest after the order of Aaron or the Aaronic Priesthood. Only the literal descendants of Aaron could offer sacrifice in the Temple. What is interesting is that a member of the higher lower Priesthood could administer in the lower, but the lower could not administer in the higher.


When Christ was working his ministry, he was a High Priest after the order of Melchizedec. He is the highest High Priest in that order. That does not mean that the order is done away with here on earth. It existed from the time of Adam to Moses, and from Moses to Jesus Christ. Christ then laid his hands upon his disciples and gave them the Priesthood to act in God's name and to teach the world about the gospel.

In 1829, While Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery were translating the final chapters of the Book of Mormon, they had inquired to the Lord about Baptism. While in Prayer, an Angel appeared who identified himself as John, the same one that was called John the Baptist. He was a resurrected being and placed his hands upon both Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery and conferred the Aaronic Priesthood upon them which also included the Levitical order. Not long after that, Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery were in running along the Susquehanna River, trying to elude the law which had placed them in Jail on trumped up charges in which the Jail keeper had released them. As the were running, they stopped to get their breath along the river and knelt down in Prayer when three angels appeared to them. They identified themselves as Peter, James and John. The told Joseph Smith that he and Oliver were to be ordained after the order of Melchizedec. We believe that all the priesthood authority has been restored to the earth, and those who are worthy can obtain these priesthoods.

I know that you are not going to accept this, but this is what we truly believe happened.
 
F

fatboys

Guest
#8
Lol are you implying the Bible characters that wrote the Bible are pagans? Seems to me they are all believers in God from Moses to John.

Now in terms of mormonism though, I do wonder how Mormons can trust Joseph Smith whom was a freemason pagan and then created a false gospel either of his own devices or because some being called Maroni told him to in the 1800s AD.

I don't mind mormon people though, I just think they should give up on the Book of Baal and re-embrace the Bible. Mormons have a leg up on the other pagans. Unlike the other pagans who have to totally re-do their thinking, all a mormon pagan must do is drop the dead weight of Smith and retain the Bible. I think more of the fault lays with Mormon Temple members whom are the elites in the pyramid scheme of mormonism and perpetuate this fantasy rather than the commonfolk of the Mormon Church who know not any better.
All of Gods words are perfect. When the reach mans ears they become less perfect. I am not saying that those that wrote the Bible were pagans., I said that there are those in Mainstream Christianity who believe that compiled the bible were pagans. Who compiled it? I will give you a hint. It was compiled around 300 years after the death of Christ.
 
Dec 18, 2013
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#9
Sigh there were not two priesthoods in Israel during Moses time. You do realize Moses and Aaron are of the tribe of Levi, right?

This whole comment is full of non-biblical fantasy.

Just more the reason not to trust in the twisted words of Joseph Smith, if they even be his words and not the doctrines of demons.
 
Dec 18, 2013
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#10
All of Gods words are perfect. When the reach mans ears they become less perfect. I am not saying that those that wrote the Bible were pagans., I said that there are those in Mainstream Christianity who believe that compiled the bible were pagans. Who compiled it? I will give you a hint. It was compiled around 300 years after the death of Christ.
Bible was compiled by the early Christians. Christians being followers of the Christ.

Who compiled the Book of Mormon, Pearl of Great Price, and Doctrines and Covenants? In fact who wrote these books? Joseph Smith in 1800s or his demon Maroni? Either way, I trust neither source. And that's all just by going by the story behind them without even delving into the vast mountain of physical evidence that disproves mormon paganism.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,624
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#11
fatboys i'm a little busy at the moment but i wanted to pop in and thank you for taking the time to address my Q's
:)
 
F

fatboys

Guest
#12
Funny you come here trashing 'our religion' when every Mormon i've seen has tried desperately to tie LDS into Christianity. Even when Christians deny LDS as part of our faith, LDS always argue and take offense for being denied any connection with Christianity.
Coming to this site to preach a non-Christian doctrine, or just to trash what we believe, is a surefire way to get banned. Not to mention a sign of weak character.
I reread what I had written.. I wrote this on my phone while I was waiting in between my runs on the school bus. Let me clarify.

Mormons get trashed all the time. I am not here to trash anyone. I am here to ask question and to share what we believe.. Not to convert anyone, but to clarify my beliefs to you. The only ones that might be interesting in what I share are those who are not happy with what they have.

My question is many mainstream Christians believe that the bible is infallible. I have to question that, not because I am LDS, or Mormon, but because of the research to learn the origin of the Bible. How it came to be. If the Bible has not mistakes in it because you believe as I do that all scriptures are God breathed, then we how can to feel comfortable knowing that those that compiled the bible were pagans from many of the mainstream Christian denominations believe. How can you know that these pagans allowed in all of Gods words into the bible. There were scriptures that Jesus quoted that are not contained in the Bible. There are books which many many Christians believed in which are not contained in the bible. And then you believe that these pagans got the character of God right, namely the Trinity. I just don't understand is all I am saying.
 
F

fatboys

Guest
#13
Sigh there were not two priesthoods in Israel during Moses time. You do realize Moses and Aaron are of the tribe of Levi, right?

This whole comment is full of non-biblical fantasy.

Just more the reason not to trust in the twisted words of Joseph Smith, if they even be his words and not the doctrines of demons.
To a Levite he held the priesthood. It was called the Levitical Priesthood or order. Aaron had the higher order.. Not two priesthoods, just one priesthood two orders.
 
Dec 18, 2013
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#14
Simply because the Bible wasn't compiled by pagans, it was compiled by early Christians and provably written by far older Christians, and provably copied and translated faithfully throughout time. Simple archaeology and history and linguistics my friend. Not to mention all the scrutiny the Bible has faced for millenia also proves its authenticity.

Lol it is somewhat ironic you think the Bible compiled by pagans when it is provably not so, yet ye do not question the mormon texts which were provably written by a pagan.

Solution seems simple to me. Drop the pagan texts of mormonism and pick up the Bible. It's simply that simple.
 
T

tarzan

Guest
#15
You raise excellent questions. I am reminded that while the Jews were in captivity, God had given the gentiles authority over the Jews. The temple was rebuilt on account of the decree of Cyrus. Jerusalem was reinstated. If God used the gentiles to restore the Jews, then could He not also use pagans to gather His instruction? This possibility cannot be discounted. And what more glorious and beautiful way to reveal the Word? That those who are against it gather it and compile it and reveal it as a witness to them, and against them, and to the world, and for the world, and also against the world. God certainly works in brilliant ways. The possibility should not be discounted.
 
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Jda016

Guest
#16
Joseph Smith's formative years were in Palmyra, New York. Stephen Mansfield describes this area in his book, "The Mormonizing of America."

Speaking of this area Mansfield says, "In short, the burned-over district became an occult buffet. Men used divining rods to find water and 'seer stones' to find lost cattle. Symbols, amulets, tokens, and shapes gave a person some control over the spirits around him. The initiated understood that the stages of the moon guided everything from fence building to baby making. How a bird landed on a windowsill and which way a dog was facing when he barked became important matters to know. Spirits spoke through crackling fires and the afterbirth of a cow, were blocked in their evil intent by rituals, sayings, gestures, and vigilance. Men bound themselves together as well-meaning brothers through handshakes and secret garmets, harmed each other with incantations and a dozen varieties of the evil eye. It became normal for a family to worship Jesus Christ with a Martin Luther hymn on a Sunday morning but then to read fortunes in ashes on Monday and pay dividers to walk their property midweek (85-86).

Joseph Smith's father was into all of this and so was he. You say we believe from Pagans, but you clearly believe a man of the occult received a "revelation" from God that called all the works of Christianity, and I quote, "an abomination." You believe a man knee-deep into witchcraft heard God correctly and received the true words of God.
 
T

tarzan

Guest
#17
Simply because the Bible wasn't compiled by pagans, it was compiled by early Christians and provably written by far older Christians, and provably copied and translated faithfully throughout time. Simple archaeology and history and linguistics my friend. Not to mention all the scrutiny the Bible has faced for millenia also proves its authenticity.

Lol it is somewhat ironic you think the Bible compiled by pagans when it is provably not so, yet ye do not question the mormon texts which were provably written by a pagan.

Solution seems simple to me. Drop the pagan texts of mormonism and pick up the Bible. It's simply that simple.
I think you're missing the OP's point. He is referring to the Romans who judged the Scriptures.
 
T

tarzan

Guest
#18
The OP is not asking for people to condemn what he is believing. He is asking us for our wisdom and understanding. How can one be helped by being constantly attacked for what he believes without justifying what we think he should believe? This seems counter productive.
 
J

Jda016

Guest
#19
Joseph Smith didn't simply declare the Bible had errors, he said declared that all works of Christian churches were an abomination to God.

Spring of 1820: " While Smith is praying in a grove one morning, God the Father and his son, Jesus Christ, appear. They forgive Smith's sins and tell him about all Christian churches are abominations and corrupt and that he should not join any of them. Mormons call this 'The First Vision.'"
(The Mormonizing of America by Stephen Mansfield)

all martyrs, all missionary work, all things done in the name of Jesus Christ struck down in one swift blow by Joseph Smith. I'm sorry, but this is the HEIGHT of arrogance.
 
Dec 18, 2013
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#20
I think you're missing the OP's point. He is referring to the Romans who judged the Scriptures.
Nay I miss his point not. It is a subtle point based on misinterpretation. For whom were those Romans? They were Christians, specifically the early Catholic Church. Thus not pagans.

As where we can look into mormonism's history and its quite frankly laden with paganism. Everything from Smith's connection to freemasonry paganism to a lot of the rituals he put into early mormonism are very lurid and have a basis in paganism.
I mean come on the Mormon Origin Myth is that Smith claims a being pretending to be an angel named Maroni gave him the plates of Nephi and he translated them from "Old Egyptian" into English with a seer stone. So not only is Smith heavily tied to paganism, but even for the translation and compilation of his books he using pagan techniques!


This topic could not get anymore ironic.