Faith and Works

[Shyness]

Philippians 2:12-13

Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

John 14:21

Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them."

John 14:23

Jesus replied, "Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.

John 14:15-16

If you love Me, you will keep My commandments. "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever.

Matthew 7:21-23

Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'… Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

James 2:14-26

What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? [SUP]15 [/SUP]If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, [SUP]16 [/SUP]and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good[SUP][a][/SUP] is that? [SUP]17 [/SUP]So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. [SUP]18 [/SUP]But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. [SUP]19 [/SUP]You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! [SUP]20 [/SUP]Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? [SUP]21 [/SUP]Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? [SUP]22 [/SUP]You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; [SUP]23 [/SUP]and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God. [SUP]24 [/SUP]You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. [SUP]25 [/SUP]And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? [SUP]26 [/SUP]For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

To tell you the truth, faith cannot exist without works and it is impossible to please God without faith.

 

[notuptome]

Philippians 2:12-13

Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

John 14:21

Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them."

John 14:23

Jesus replied, "Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.

John 14:15-16

If you love Me, you will keep My commandments. "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever.

Matthew 7:21-23

Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'… Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

James 2:14-26

What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? [SUP]15 [/SUP]If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, [SUP]16 [/SUP]and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good[SUP][a][/SUP] is that? [SUP]17 [/SUP]So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. [SUP]18 [/SUP]But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. [SUP]19 [/SUP]You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! [SUP]20 [/SUP]Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? [SUP]21 [/SUP]Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? [SUP]22 [/SUP]You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; [SUP]23 [/SUP]and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God. [SUP]24 [/SUP]You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. [SUP]25 [/SUP]And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? [SUP]26 [/SUP]For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

To tell you the truth, faith cannot exist without works and it is impossible to please God without faith.

You need to know the Truth to tell the truth. You are judging God.

Men are saved by the will of God and not the works of their hands. Grace is the means by which God in His great mercy saves souls who cannot merit it. Cannot merit it. Not only don't merit salvation but cannot merit salvation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[followjja]

Shyness,

I thought Paul was the one who said, that one is saved by grace and NOT by works? If you chop Paul out of the picture, I think you will be MUCH closer to the truth.

followjja---follow just jesus always

 

[Allin]

I think the OP is saying that you need faith to please God and that faith always comes with following actions. James says this as well as the Bible and the Lord. It doesn't contradict what Paul said. When Paul talked about by Grace alone, he isn't saying that you just believe then sit. To believe really means to follow in the NT. Grace and faith/works go together. If you love someone, you respect and treat them well. This is what Grace (loving the person) and faith (treating them well) look like working together.

 

[crossnote]

Shyness,

I thought Paul was the one who said, that one is saved by grace and NOT by works? If you chop Paul out of the picture, I think you will be MUCH closer to the truth.

followjja---follow just jesus always

the Epitome of Phariseeism.
They attacked Paul then and still do because they can only understand God by the Law so Paul is nonsensical to them.

 

[followjja]

the Epitome of Phariseeism.
They attacked Paul then and still do because they can only understand God by the Law so Paul is nonsensical to them.

"Brothers I am a Pharisee, a son of Pharisees." Acts 23:6

Spoken by PAUL, if you want to believe that Acts is literal, Paul never changed-- or he lied to save his skin.

 

[RedTent]

Shyness,

I thought Paul was the one who said, that one is saved by grace and NOT by works? If you chop Paul out of the picture, I think you will be MUCH closer to the truth.

followjja---follow just jesus always

I think Paul, the Torah, Christ, God, all scripture is only speaking truth and if we would see it as a unity speaking with the same voice in truth (as it is) we would be seeing cleanly and correctly. It is only when one verse is brought out as "only" without seeing the unity that sour notes are brought in.

As a glaring example, some want written law and works adjusted, and if someone objects he is accused of trying to make law or works front and center. So no matter what is said about law or works after this, someone is taking it out of the unity of the word, out of balance If demons can manage to get the church to belittle it, no matter what truths they use to justify it, they win a battle, so the lack of unity wins, no matter what is said for or against and demons win by sitting back and letting us battle. For unity of all is the truth.

 

[followjja]

There is NO UNITY when contradictions are plainly seen. Covering one's eyes will not do the trick.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Work is a natural byproduct of faith. It is not faith plus works. Faith saves, and as a result works follow.

Why do people think they can save themselves. Don;t you realise you can do NOTHING at all to make yourself right with God?

God must make you right with him, If you could make yourself right with him. He would not have had to come and die.

 

[RedTent]

There is NO UNITY when contradictions are plainly seen. Covering one's eyes will not do the trick.

God is one is fundamental, just like God is love is fundamental. If you don't see God as one in scripture, it is not of God or a true picture of God, it is your picture that is off, not God. There are no contradictions in scripture.

 

[crossnote]

"Brothers I am a Pharisee, a son of Pharisees." Acts 23:6

Spoken by PAUL, if you want to believe that Acts is literal, Paul never changed-- or he lied to save his skin.

I said 'Phariseeism'.

 

[followjja]

God is one is fundamental, just like God is love is fundamental. If you don't see God as one in scripture, it is not of God or a true picture of God, it is your picture that is off, not God. There are no contradictions in scripture.

Jer 7:22, "For in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, I did NOT speak to your fathers or command them concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices."

Despite what is accredited to Moses, about sacrifices being required; Jeremiah says that God never told him about it.

"Go and LEARN what this means, I desire mercy and NOT SACRIFICE." Matt 9:13, Matt 12:7


Matt 19:8, Mark 10:5, Jesus said that Moses allowed divorce because of the hardness of their hearts, but from the beginning it was not so.

LEARN from Jesus, don't stick your head in the sand.

 

[Karraster]

I love those verses Shyness, thanks. Here's a few more, written in red.

CHAPTER 15
​

Jesus teaches union with himself​

15:1-8 - "I am the real vine, my Father is the vine-dresser. He removes any of my branches which are not bearing fruit and he prunes every branch that does bear fruit to increase its yield. Now, you have already been pruned by my words. You must go on growing in me and I will grow in you. For just as the branch cannot bear any fruit unless it shares the life of the vine, so you can produce nothing unless you go on growing in me. I am the vine itself, you are the branches. It is the man who shares my life and whose life I share who proves fruitful. For the plain fact is that apart from me you can do nothing at all. The man who does not share my life is like a branch that is broken off and withers away. He becomes just like the dry sticks that men pick up and use for the firewood. But if you live your life in me, and my words live in your hearts, you can ask for whatever you like and it will come true for you. This is how my Father will be glorified - in your becoming fruitful and being my disciples.



15:9-15 - "I have loved you just as the Father has loved me. You must go on living in my love. If you keep my commandments you will live in my love just as I have kept my Father's commandments and live in his love. I have told you this so that you can share my joy, and that your happiness may be complete. This is my commandment: that you love each other as I have loved you. There is no greater love than this - that a man should lay down his life for his friends. You are my friends if you do what I tell you to do. I shall not call you servants any longer, for a servant does not share his master's confidence. No, I call you friends, now, because I have told you everything that I have heard from the Father.
15:16 - "It is not that you have chosen me; but it is I who have chosen you. I have appointed you to go and bear fruit that will be lasting; so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he will give it to you.

 

[Karraster]

You need to know the Truth to tell the truth. You are judging God.

Men are saved by the will of God and not the works of their hands. Grace is the means by which God in His great mercy saves souls who cannot merit it. Cannot merit it. Not only don't merit salvation but cannot merit salvation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Judging God? By posting the words of Jesus? Hmm, I thought it was ok to post things Jesus said on a Bible discussion board.

Judging God by quoting Jesus.....well...

 

[Karraster]

I said 'Phariseeism'.

Now, is that a real word? anyhow, the Pharisee of Jesus' day that set about to kill Him was not following God's Law, no, they were making their own law, much like today.

 

[OwenHeidenreich]

27 Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the ‘law’ that requires faith. 28 For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, 30 since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. 31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

The LAW requires faith.
Because the LAW itself is WORKS.
Do your works with a pure heart, confident in God who is unseen.

 

[crossnote]

Now, is that a real word? anyhow, the Pharisee of Jesus' day that set about to kill Him was not following God's Law, no, they were making their own law, much like today.

But even back then a Pharisee could be a true believer yet try to impose the law on those not under the law.

When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and the elders, and they declared all that God had done with them. But some believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees rose up and said, "It is necessary to circumcise them and to order them to keep the law of Moses." The apostles and the elders were gathered together to consider this matter.
(Act 15:4-6)

I see this still going on here on CC even by non Jewish pharisees or Gentile wanna be's.
If a person wants to keep the Mosaic law, have at it, but please don't foist it on us poor Goyim.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

But even back then a Pharisee could be a true believer yet try to impose the law on those not under the law.

When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and the elders, and they declared all that God had done with them. But some believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees rose up and said, "It is necessary to circumcise them and to order them to keep the law of Moses." The apostles and the elders were gathered together to consider this matter.
(Act 15:4-6)

I see this still going on here on CC even by non Jewish pharisees or Gentile wanna be's.
If a person wants to keep the Mosaic law, have at it, but please don't foist it on us poor Goyim.

they do not like to see this, they have to believe they followed a perverted law. and not Gods law so they can still excuse themselves and why they still follow an old law which was supposed to lead them to christ, then be set aside once it did its job so they can get onto far better things.