Did the Pharisee spirit die long ago and now all is well?

[Yet]

Let's see!


The Pharisees were exalted above the folks.
The pastors are exalted above the folks.
The Pharisees loved the upper seats.
The pastors love the upper seats.
The Pharisees loved financial gain.
The pastors love financial gain.
The Pharisees loved religious titles.
The pastors love religious titles, such as 'pastor'.
The Pharisees rob widows.
The pastors rob widows.
The Pharisees didn't work secular jobs as Paul commanded.
The pastors don't work secular jobs as Paul commanded.
The Pharisees loved the praise of men.
The pastors love the praise of men.
The Pharisees put burdens on the folks.
The pastors put burdens on the folks.
The Pharisees did all the ministering.
The pastors do all the ministering, which is contrary to scripture.
The Pharisees were front and center.
The pastors are front and center.
The poor languished under the Pharisees rule and reign.
The poor languish under the pastor's rule and reign.
The folks were not allowed to question the Pharisees teaching.
The folks are not allowed to question the pastor's teaching.
Under the Pharisees the folks were constrained to give.
Under the pastors the folks are constrained to give, no matter how poor.
The Pharisees were seen as the 'oracles of God'.
The pastors are seen as the 'oracles of God'.
The Pharisees were seen as mediators between the folks and God.
The pastors are seen as the mediators between the folks and Christ.
The Pharisees exalted themselves as Diotrephes did.
The pastors exalt themselves as Diotrephes did.
The Pharisees twisted the scriptures for profit.
The pastors twist the scriptures for profit.
The Pharisees were arrogant.
The pastors are arrogant. That's what happens when you are elevated above others. Unavoidable.
The Pharisees claimed a special calling.
The pastors claim a special calling.
The Pharisees were seen as special.
The pastors say 'all are special', but they claim more specialness than the folks.
The Pharisees spoke and all became silent to listen.
The pastors speak and all become silent to listen.
The Pharisees expect special financial support.
The pastors expect special financial support.
The Pharisees expected to be obeyed as they rule.
The pastors expect to be obeyed as they rule.
The folks believed that only the Pharisees could hear the clear word of God.
The folks believe today that only the pastor can hear the clear word of God.
The folks believed that only the Pharisees could interpret the written word concisely.
The folks today believe that only the pastor can interpret the written word concisely.
The Pharisees loved pomp and ceremony.
The pastors love pomp and ceremony.
The Pharisees would not enter in and kept others from entering in.
The pastors refuse to enter in and are keeping others from entering in.
The Pharisees loved their traditions of men.
The pastors love the traditions of men that make the 'word' null and void.
The Pharisees loved displacing God.
The pastors love displacing Christ. Taking the rightful place of Christ. (Antichrist). Whoops! Did I really say that?!

Any self elevation above others results in pride, greed, and every devilish sin in the above list. Welcome to Pharisee land. Will the ekklesia ever wake up?? Hope does spring eternal.
'The prophets prophesy for gain.....and my people love it so'. 'Give us a king( a man) to rule over us like the nations'. Has anything really changed?
Jesus stands at the outside now for about 1800 years knocking to get in....will someone please answer the door????
I have my crash helmet on. Start slinging those stones.

 

[followjja]

Just wondering what you think of this guy?

"I am a Pharisee, a son of Pharisees." Acts 23:6

If Acts is literal, it paints a poor picture of Paul.

 

[thecreationtutor]

Pharisee's were churchfolk = the word means seperated

 

[Yet]

Allow me to correct you. It paints a very, very poor picture of Paul as a Pharisee BC..
Read Matt. 23. Jesus called the exalted ones serpents. A very, very poor picture indeed.

 

[GodIsSalvation]

Just wondering what you think of this guy?

"I am a Pharisee, a son of Pharisees." Acts 23:6

If Acts is literal, it paints a poor picture of Paul.

Heh why even refer to Acts? Paul himself call himself the least of apostles because he persecuted the Christians. Also yes Acts is literal.

 

[Hoffco]

Yet, I think in many incidences you are right. For example, look at Benn Hen and men and women like him. the are rich and notorious with evil deeds, exploiting the people. Love to all, Hoffco But we know many self giving pastor who serve the people of God.

 

[RedTent]

Here are some additional facts about the Pharisees.

They believed history is divinely controlled,
The Pharisees believed in an afterlife.
They believed in Angels & Spirits.
They believed God would restore the glories of David’s Kingdom.
They believed the Messiah would overthrow gentile supremacy.
They believed they were the progressive ones who would reform Judaism through accurately defining and enforcing law.
The Pharisees were sure they had interpreted all prophecy concerning the Messiah with accuracy.

 

[crossnote]

Some were christians, albeit confused...

But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
(Act 15:5)

And today...still the same...sad.

 

[ob77]

Out of 400 Pharisees, only 27 were true adamites, the rest were Kenites. All one needs do is read what Christ said of them in John chapter 8. They are the same as the tares, in Matthew 13. They are still among us, only they use a different name now. They are the goats, the bad fig, and the tares.

 

[jjtj22]

Yes the pharisees are alive and well but in many more ways. I have more issues personally with the ruling families of the church. Every church I have ever been to has had them, the families with the most money so they get to call the shots. Church shotcallers Most pastors not wanting to rock the money boat give in to these families (and maybe just to keep their jobs) This is detrimental to the church (at least mine) James addresses this tendency in chapter 2.

2For if a man comes into your assembly with a gold ring and dressed in fine clothes, and there also comes in a poor man in dirty clothes, 3and you pay special attention to the one who is wearing the fine clothes, and say, "You sit here in a good place," and you say to the poor man, "You stand over there, or sit down by my footstool," 4have you not made distinctions among yourselves, and become judges with evil motives?


While I do agree that many celebrity pastors are completely in it for profit and probably a lot of the mega church pastors and some are just devoured by the devil I truly believe that most pastors feel the call of God to preach and are God's servants. I don't know how many of you are pastors, I am not, but if you are thank you. The loving authority I am called to over my children makes me appreciate the loving authority my husband has over our family and the loving authority many pastors display to their people.

Does anyone else have the problem of the pharisee families?

 

[ob77]

There is a two volume book titled "The Pharisees" , written by Louis Finkelstein, published in 1947. Anyone who can find this book still intact, will have your eyes opened to be sure. I am fortunate to be old enough to have gained access to this. I do not know if is still available at libraries or not, things like this tend to be taken off the shelves and destroyed, just as one cannot acquire the "Talmud" at libraries other than in perhaps a synagogue library. The Talmud, in and of itself is quite a read, as it portrays Christ as a "Mamzir"= one of mixed race, and has Him calling out to God for forgiveness and declaring that the Kenites should be exalted among all peoples. It also has Christ boiling in human excrement, as just punishment for pretending to be the Messiah. It is then of course, no mystery as why you cannot find the Talmud in any public library today. The Talmud , was of course what Christ was referring to when He said to the Kenites - "You make of none effect the word of God, by your traditions". The "traditions" were at the time, the reciting of the Talmud in word of mouth, from one to another. The Talmud was not codified in writing until about 400 A.D.

 

[ob77]

Yes, Jjtj, I do have a problem with them, but you may be off the mark a tad bit, for the Kenites are not of God, they are not of Adam, they are not the sheep. I know of what you speak, though. Remember, that it is the LOVE of money that is the root of evil............but that in itself does not make one a Kenite.

 

[followjja]

Some were christians, albeit confused...

But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
(Act 15:5)

And today...still the same...sad.

Why did Paul circumcize Tim then in Acts? Paul in his letter said, it shouldn't be done?

 

[RedTent]

I disagree with the labeling of everything about an entire sect as bad. You are labeling individuals as a group. All nigers. All Kikes. I believe that someone said it is sad that anyone would define the stated beliefs of this sect.

I love how this thread brings out ways we can live against the law of the Lord. We can see it acted out in character profiles in the gospels. We can identify some things with what we see in ourselves and in others in the church, and learn to stay away from those things. But I don't think that should mean that we may not learn anything about Pharisees except what Christ pointed out that we should stay away from.

I think if Christ was here he would never label people before he knew them. Christ knew and dined with people from every group, from every occupation, every social class. Christ knew the Pharisees who wished to kill Him because He was not helping them get rid of the Romans, and Christ knew them for that not for a label put on them.

 

[crossnote]

Why did Paul circumcize Tim then in Acts? Paul in his letter said, it shouldn't be done?

Paul was saying it shouldn't be done in order to be justified before God. Paul's motive was not for justification but not to give offense to the Jews in order for Timothy to accompany him amongst the Jews.

Paul came also to Derbe and to Lystra. A disciple was there, named Timothy, the son of a Jewish woman who was a believer, but his father was a Greek. He was well spoken of by the brothers at Lystra and Iconium. Paul wanted Timothy to accompany him, and he took him and circumcised him because of the Jews who were in those places, for they all knew that his father was a Greek. As they went on their way through the cities, they delivered to them for observance the decisions that had been reached by the apostles and elders who were in Jerusalem.
(Act 16:1-4)

 

[RedTent]

Paul was saying it shouldn't be done in order to be justified before God. Paul's motive was not for justification but not to give offense to the Jews in order for Timothy to accompany him amongst the Jews.

Paul came also to Derbe and to Lystra. A disciple was there, named Timothy, the son of a Jewish woman who was a believer, but his father was a Greek. He was well spoken of by the brothers at Lystra and Iconium. Paul wanted Timothy to accompany him, and he took him and circumcised him because of the Jews who were in those places, for they all knew that his father was a Greek. As they went on their way through the cities, they delivered to them for observance the decisions that had been reached by the apostles and elders who were in Jerusalem.
(Act 16:1-4)

In other words, Paul did not say "oh horrors Judaizers!!!" We can have none of those people here!! In todays church immoral people are accepted but Judaizers who accept circumcision certainly would not be, yet Paul calmly had Timothy circumcised. Paul knew that it was the spiritual circumcision that was important, not the physical one, yet he had Timothy physically circumcised. Perhaps todays church needs to take another look at how Paul looked at rituals.

 

[followjja]

Paul was saying it shouldn't be done in order to be justified before God. Paul's motive was not for justification but not to give offense to the Jews in order for Timothy to accompany him amongst the Jews.

Paul came also to Derbe and to Lystra. A disciple was there, named Timothy, the son of a Jewish woman who was a believer, but his father was a Greek. He was well spoken of by the brothers at Lystra and Iconium. Paul wanted Timothy to accompany him, and he took him and circumcised him because of the Jews who were in those places, for they all knew that his father was a Greek. As they went on their way through the cities, they delivered to them for observance the decisions that had been reached by the apostles and elders who were in Jerusalem.
(Act 16:1-4)

Acts 16:3, Paul circumcised Tim himself.
Wonder why Paul didn't get someone else to do it? Was Paul an expert at the process?
Who did the sucking of the wound? The person who circumcised the guy, LOL.
Acts makes fun of Paul again.

Tim wasn't willing to die for his faith, neither was Paul.

 

[Yet]

Everyone is way off topic. I again submit that the spirit of the Pharisees that Jesus confronted is alive and well in the 'church' (ekklesia). The spirit of Diotrephes alive and well. The spirit of the Nicolaitans alive and well, and all I hear from Christians is snoring.

Jesus biggest adversaries were the church leaders of His day. That has changed. It's now worse.
He went out of His way to take them head on. Why? Where was His love. Wasn't He 'not to touch Gods anointed?'
Was Jesus a maverick, a loose cannon for doing so?
Why didn't He submit to the Pharisee's self appointed anointed duly authorized upper chamber office, like we are told to do today?
Why did He call them snakes and whited seplechres full of dead men's bones?
Why did He condemn their high profile position and their self love adoration?
Why did He condemn them for taking money from poor widows?
All these things are done in the church today by self appointed, duly authorized pastors and most Christians believe this is of God.
So why did Jesus condemn all this with the religious leaders in His day but now He says its okee dokee for today?
Enquiring minds want to know?
Im just saying. Silly me!!

 

[thecreationtutor]

there isn't like a spirit floating around us that enters us called the "spirit of pharisee" or the spirit of lusta - if the sum total of your energy is spent bent on lust, or bent on pretending to be Holy, your the problem - not some outside force

 

[danalee]

Yes the pharisees are alive and well but in many more ways. I have more issues personally with the ruling families of the church. Every church I have ever been to has had them, the families with the most money so they get to call the shots. Church shotcallers Most pastors not wanting to rock the money boat give in to these families (and maybe just to keep their jobs) This is detrimental to the church (at least mine) James addresses this tendency in chapter 2.

2For if a man comes into your assembly with a gold ring and dressed in fine clothes, and there also comes in a poor man in dirty clothes, 3and you pay special attention to the one who is wearing the fine clothes, and say, "You sit here in a good place," and you say to the poor man, "You stand over there, or sit down by my footstool," 4have you not made distinctions among yourselves, and become judges with evil motives?


While I do agree that many celebrity pastors are completely in it for profit and probably a lot of the mega church pastors and some are just devoured by the devil I truly believe that most pastors feel the call of God to preach and are God's servants. I don't know how many of you are pastors, I am not, but if you are thank you. The loving authority I am called to over my children makes me appreciate the loving authority my husband has over our family and the loving authority many pastors display to their people.

Does anyone else have the problem of the pharisee families?

Peter is the rock that God builds his church, the sinner needing salvation. Wealth tends to corrupt in my opinion, because it is an perceived reward. The rock of the church of prosperity theology is built on the sinless attributes of those God seems to favor (those who have attractive traits, therefore are propagated). You can't really run a church without money, but as a pastor you can win over the sinner with the truth in the Gospels. Teaching the deceptions of wealth and prosperity in relation to sin may help to bring the whole church on the same level: sinners needing salvation. Pray for God to give guidance to your pastor.