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Spokenpassage

Guest
#1
[video=vimeo;27599491]http://vimeo.com/27599491[/video]


Thank the Lord we were saved by His amazing grace and relentless love!
 
Dec 9, 2013
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#2
Let me address an age old question regarding total depravity:

If we are born depraved by nature, not able to do any good thing apart from God, how are we to be accountable for what we do?

Why are we judged for being a sinner, when that is the fate we were dealt from the very beginning?
 
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Spokenpassage

Guest
#3
Let me address an age old question regarding total depravity:

If we are born depraved by nature, not able to do any good thing apart from God, how are we to be accountable for what we do?

Why are we judged for being a sinner, when that is the fate we were dealt from the very beginning?
Maybe that's why you need know the gospel, because that's the flip side of all of this... :)
 
Dec 9, 2013
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#4
Maybe that's why you need know the gospel, because that's the flip side of all of this... :)
Yes i understand the gracious gift of grace of which we as christians receive with gratitude because it is unearned because we were totally depraved, hence making the salvation that much sweeter :)

However, it doesn't address or answer the underlying questions I posted above.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,706
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#5
Let me address an age old question regarding total depravity:

If we are born depraved by nature, not able to do any good thing apart from God, how are we to be accountable for what we do?

Why are we judged for being a sinner, when that is the fate we were dealt from the very beginning?
John 3:18-19 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

btw, you say here you're christian, perhaps you should update your profile...or?
 
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Spokenpassage

Guest
#6
Doseofreality the real question is, why does He save anyone at all? That's the real question.
 
Feb 17, 2010
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#7
I agree with Crossnote. ALL called were offered the light when God called them. But they did not like hte light! Their choice. No matter how we are born. Wheter we had unbelieving parents or believing parents, we were ALL called, and it is now OUR choice whether we ANSWER or NOT. Many SEEK to enter into the gate but few succeed.

Only the ones that REALLY lay down all sin will enter. NO SIN ALLOWED. So there is how we CHOOSE the light. but letting GO of the DARK.

GBU all that read this... With the NEW CREATURE in Him. Amen!
 
Dec 9, 2013
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#8
John 3:18-19 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

btw, you say here you're christian, perhaps you should update your profile...or?
haha no sorry I was just speaking from a christian perspective.
 
Dec 9, 2013
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#9
Doseofreality the real question is, why does He save anyone at all? That's the real question.
I disagree, the real question is Why did He allow a situation where everyone needed saving?

The reason He saves anyone is for His own glory.
 
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Spokenpassage

Guest
#10
I disagree, the real question is Why did He allow a situation where everyone needed saving?

The reason He saves anyone is for His own glory.
Doseofreality, God is not obligated to saving anyone, neither is He unjust for righteously judging all men for their iniquity.

The question still stands, why does God save anyone at all? He doesn't have to, He has every right to condemn man for their mistakes...
 
Dec 9, 2013
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#11
Doseofreality, God is not obligated to saving anyone, neither is He unjust for righteously judging all men for their iniquity.

The question still stands, why does God save anyone at all? He doesn't have to, He has every right to condemn man for their mistakes...
Why? Thats the point I am trying to make, our mistakes were already destined to us by our very nature given to us by God.
 
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Spokenpassage

Guest
#12
He loves you man. Why does He judge men for what would happen anyway? I cannot answer that except what i have said, but I do know that God made a way out. He loves you man. :)
 
Dec 9, 2013
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#13
By the way I do not contest your position that the bible teaches total depravity, I think it does as well.
I am trying to draw attention to the deeper question that total depravity presents and possible problems with this theology.
 
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Spokenpassage

Guest
#14
By the way I do not contest your position that the bible teaches total depravity, I think it does as well.
I am trying to draw attention to the deeper question that total depravity presents and possible problems with this theology.
Man is the problem, not the theology.
 
Dec 9, 2013
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#15
He loves you man. Why does He judge men for what would happen anyway? I cannot answer that except what i have said, but I do know that God made a way out. He loves you man. :)
I thank you for your sentiment. If He loves me then He'll save me.
There is another unanswerable question .... Why does He not save everyone?

Why does He not just forgive us? Why the need for a perfect sacrifice? A loophole to satisfy His own cosmic justice?

keep asking questions my friend
 
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Spokenpassage

Guest
#16
Why? Thats the point I am trying to make, our mistakes were already destined to us by our very nature given to us by God.
Actually we were made sinless, but because of the fall everyone under Adam took the fallen nature with Adam. God is not the author of sin. God judges everyone by their sins,,by their disobedience to Him. Through Jesus is the escape from eternal punishment.
 
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Spokenpassage

Guest
#17
I thank you for your sentiment. If He loves me then He'll save me.
There is another unanswerable question .... Why does He not save everyone?

Why does He not just forgive us? Why the need for a perfect sacrifice? A loophole to satisfy His own cosmic justice?

keep asking questions my friend
He said in the blood is the life. Blood needs to be shed for our sins. Sin must be placed somewhere, Christ is He who we placed it on! :)

Everyone has the chance to be forgiven, everyone, but until they repent and believe they won't be forgiven.

God is just my friend, it would be unjust not to punish us for our sins. God's wrath needs to be placed on someone, only a perfect sacrifice - Jesus - would satisfy His judgement and still keep Him just.
 
Dec 9, 2013
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#18
Actually we were made sinless, but because of the fall everyone under Adam took the fallen nature with Adam. God is not the author of sin. God judges everyone by their sins,,by their disobedience to Him. Through Jesus is the escape from eternal punishment.
Yes this is the typical argument.

I speak of personal responsibility however, yes Adam may have sinned while not being totally depraved but how then can I be held accountable for his actions?

There is a inherit contradiction with saying that "God is not author of sin" and "God is sovereign" . If God did not want there to be sin in the world then He would not have allowed it.
 
Dec 9, 2013
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#19
He said in the blood is the life. Blood needs to be shed for our sins. Sin must be placed somewhere, Christ is He who we placed it on! :)

Everyone has the chance to be forgiven, everyone, but until they repent and believe they won't be forgiven.

God is just my friend, it would be unjust not to punish us for our sins. God's wrath needs to be placed on someone, only a perfect sacrifice - Jesus - would satisfy His judgement and still keep Him just.
Or as a calvinist would say....they repent and believe because they are forgiven :)
 
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Spokenpassage

Guest
#20
Yes this is the typical argument.

I speak of personal responsibility however, yes Adam may have sinned while not being totally depraved but how then can I be held accountable for his actions?

There is a inherit contradiction with saying that "God is not author of sin" and "God is sovereign" . If God did not want there to be sin in the world then He would not have allowed it.
Doseofreality, God is all sovereign, but the present sin in the world does not violate His sovereignty. If there wasn't evil present in the world, then it wouldn't be a choice in worshipping Him while in Him.

Evil is the absence of Good.