Did Jesus Return in AD 70?

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mrsouthside

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#1
Matthew 24:3-34 New King James Version (NKJV)

The Signs of the Times and the End of the Age

3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”
4 And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. 6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake.10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations,
and then the end will come.

The Great Tribulation

15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’[c] spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.
23 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand.

26 “Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28 For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.

The Coming of the Son of Man

29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The Parable of the Fig Tree

32 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So you also, when you see all these things, know that it[d] is near—at the doors!34 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.


What "things" is Jesus referring to? Clearly He's referring to what He has just elucidated from verse four through verse 31. In other words, the generation that sees all the things (not some, not most, but ALL)

The all-important question is, have all the events spoken of by Jesus taken place as they were taught by Him? A clue to understanding this is a detail such as is found in vs. 9 - "you will be hated by all nations on account of my name"

Factors that need to be considered are: vs. 12 and "most people's love will grow cold". The context of this verse is Christ talking about believers. Was this happening to a marked degree in AD 70? There's no biblical or extra biblical support for such a conclusion. Then, in vs. 14, "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world..." Had the entire world heard the message of the gospel by AD 70? The preterist sites Romans 1:8 as support that the gospel had indeed reached the entire world


2 Timothy 2:16-18 New King James Version (NKJV)

16 But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness. 17 And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, 18 who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some.
 

Timeline

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2014
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#2
[SUP]
[/SUP]Galatians 2:11-21 [SUP]11 [/SUP]But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. [SUP]12 [/SUP]For prior to the coming of certain men from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he began to withdraw and hold himself aloof, fearing the party of the circumcision. [SUP]13 [/SUP]The rest of the Jews joined him in hypocrisy, with the result that even Barnabas was carried away by their hypocrisy. [SUP]14 [/SUP]But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in the presence of all, “If you, being a Jew, live like the Gentiles and not like the Jews, how is it that you compel the Gentiles to live like Jews?
[SUP]15 [/SUP]“We are Jews by nature and not sinners from among the Gentiles; [SUP]16 [/SUP]nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified. [SUP]17 [/SUP]But if, while seeking to be justified in Christ, we ourselves have also been found sinners, is Christ then a minister of sin? May it never be! [SUP]18 [/SUP]For if I rebuild what I have once destroyed, I prove myself to be a transgressor. [SUP]19 [/SUP]For through the Law I died to the Law, so that I might live to God. [SUP]20 [/SUP]I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me. [SUP]21 [/SUP]I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.”

You do not think that Peter's (Cephas) heart had grown cold. Did you read Acts? And now Peter, fearing the party of the circumcision? And not Peter only.
 
Mar 12, 2014
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#3
Mat 24:

[SUP]2 [/SUP]And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?


The disciples ask Jesus two questions:

1) when shall these things be (referring to one stone not left upon top of another - destruction of Jerusalem by the Roman army 70AD)

2) what shall be the sign of thy coming and the end of the world?


Jesus answers the first question in verses 4-35 and answers the second question in verses 36ff


So Jesus in verses 4-35 is not talking about His return but signs of the coming Roman army destroying Jerusalem which occured 70AD.
 
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crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,704
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#4
Those that love to 'spiritualize' scriptures are of course going to 'spiritualize' his 2nd coming.
No longer in the flesh? Please.

Acts 1:9-11 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
 

Timeline

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2014
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#5
Did you know that the phrase "second coming" is not in the bible?
 
M

mrsouthside

Guest
#6
Matt 24:26-27: "Therefore if they say to you, 'Look, He is in the desert!' do not go out; or 'Look, He is in the inner rooms!' do not believe it. "For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

In other words when it happens it will be immediate, quick. When He does come back to earth he removes men's governments to install His kingdom.

At the Mount of Olivet the angels said the way He left is the way He returns. Acts 1:9-11: “Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, who also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven."

He will come back the same way He left, visibly and furthermore to the same spot. Jesus tells us the way he will return. He was taken up in glory 1 Tim 3:16 “Received up in glory.”

Rev 1:7 “Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.”


Are we to believe that they saw him coming in glory 70 AD as the angels said he would in Acts 1:11. And how was this redemption for them (a rescue) if Israel was being judged and scattered? Did angels gather the elect then? Did the sign of the son of man appear in heaven? Why look up if you cannot see him come to rescue you? Words as “see” “every eye will see” are used to explain that people will see HIM, physically, just as they did when he was raised to heaven, as described in

Acts 1:11. "Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven."
 

Timeline

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2014
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#7
Matt 24:26-27: "Therefore if they say to you, 'Look, He is in the desert!' do not go out; or 'Look, He is in the inner rooms!' do not believe it. "For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

In other words when it happens it will be immediate, quick. When He does come back to earth he removes men's governments to install His kingdom.

At the Mount of Olivet the angels said the way He left is the way He returns. Acts 1:9-11: “Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, who also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven."

He will come back the same way He left, visibly and furthermore to the same spot. Jesus tells us the way he will return. He was taken up in glory 1 Tim 3:16 “Received up in glory.”

Rev 1:7 “Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.”


Are we to believe that they saw him coming in glory 70 AD as the angels said he would in Acts 1:11. And how was this redemption for them (a rescue) if Israel was being judged and scattered? Did angels gather the elect then? Did the sign of the son of man appear in heaven? Why look up if you cannot see him come to rescue you? Words as “see” “every eye will see” are used to explain that people will see HIM, physically, just as they did when he was raised to heaven, as described in

Acts 1:11. "Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven."
Do you think Jesus is coming or going in these verses?

Daniel 7:13-14

[SUP]13 [/SUP]“I kept looking in the night visions,
And behold, with the clouds of heaven
One like a Son of Man was coming,
And He came up to the Ancient of Days
And was presented before Him.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]“And to Him was given dominion,
Glory and a kingdom,
That all the peoples, nations and men of every language
Might serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion
Which will not pass away;
And His kingdom is one
Which will not be destroyed.
 

And

Banned
Apr 10, 2014
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#8
Jesus can do whatever he wants
we call it the second comin when he comes to pick up his people, he stays on the cloud and in thessalonians we go up to meet him

He can come to earth on cloudy chariots, on horses and any way he wants
so
in answer to your uestion
did he return in 70 for his people
of course not we are still here.
 

And

Banned
Apr 10, 2014
364
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#9
If you have to have 3everything figured out and make sense before you believe it can happen, you are going to be disappointed
when Jesus comes he will come wether or not you know about it, wether or not you are ready and wether or not your pastor agrees with it

hubris is a terrible sin and makes it impossible to go to heaven.
 

Timeline

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2014
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#10
[SUP][/SUP]Matt 25:31-33[SUP] 31 [/SUP]“But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. [SUP]32 [/SUP]All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; [SUP]33 [/SUP]and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left.

Hebrews 8:1-6 Now the main point in what has been said is this: we have such a high priest, who has taken His seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, [SUP]2 [/SUP]a minister in the sanctuary and[SUP] [/SUP]in the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, not man. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices; so it is necessary that this high priest also have something to offer. [SUP]4 [/SUP]Now if He were on earth, He would not be a priest at all, since there are those who offer the gifts according to the Law; [SUP]5 [/SUP]who serve a copy and shadow of the heavenly things, just as Moses was warned by God when he was about to erect the tabernacle; for, “See,” He says, “that you make all things according to the pattern which was shown you on the mountain.” [SUP]6 [/SUP]But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.
 

Timeline

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Mar 20, 2014
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#11
[SUP][/SUP]Matt 21:43[SUP] 43 [/SUP]Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people, producing the fruit of it.
 

Timeline

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2014
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#12
Rev 19:11-19[SUP] 11 [/SUP]And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sat on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and wages war. [SUP]12 [/SUP]His eyes are a flame of fire, and on His head are many diadems; and He has a name written on Him which no one knows except Himself. [SUP]13 [/SUP]He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. [SUP]14 [/SUP]And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following Him on white horses. [SUP]15 [/SUP]From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty. [SUP]16 [/SUP]And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written, “KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.”
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out with a loud voice, saying to all the birds which fly in midheaven, “Come, assemble for the great supper of God, [SUP]18 [/SUP]so that you may eat the flesh of kings and the flesh of commanders and the flesh of mighty men and the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them and the flesh of all men, both free men and slaves, and small and great.”

[SUP]19[/SUP]And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies assembled to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.


Acts 4:23-31
[SUP]23 [/SUP]When they had been released, they went to their own companions and reported all that the chief priests and the elders had said to them. [SUP]24 [/SUP]And when they heard this, they lifted their voices to God with one accord and said, “O [SUP][p][/SUP]Lord, it is You who made the heaven and the earth and the sea, and all that is in them, [SUP]25 [/SUP]who by the Holy Spirit, through the mouth of our father David Your servant, said,
‘Why did the Gentiles rage,
And the peoples devise futile things?
[SUP]26 [/SUP]‘The kings of the earth took their stand,
And the rulers were gathered together
Against the Lord and against His Christ.

[SUP]27[/SUP]For truly in this city there were gathered together against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, [SUP]28 [/SUP]to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose predestined to occur. [SUP]29 [/SUP]And now, Lord, take note of their threats, and grant that Your bond-servants may speak Your word with all confidence, [SUP]30 [/SUP]while You extend Your hand to heal, and signs and wonders take place through the name of Your holy servant Jesus.” [SUP]31 [/SUP]And when they had prayed, the place where they had gathered together was shaken, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak the word of God with boldness.
 
Apr 19, 2014
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#13
Hi,

Addressing the question only.
God works through his Mighty Arm.

Jesus is his Mighty Arm, who is called the LORD of Hosts, by our Spiritual Father the prophet Isaiah.
Jesus came with the Roman army and destroyed, Jerusalem, the Temple, many high ranking Jews...
The Apostles told about these things.
John the baptist mentioned it.

Matt.3
[5] Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan,
[6] And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.
[7] But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism,
he said unto them, O generation of vipers
who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

Isa.13
[4] The noise of a multitude in the mountains,
like of a great people;
a tumultuous noise of the kingdoms of nations gathered together:
the LORD of hosts -Jesus- mustes the host of the battle.
[5] They come from -Rome- a far country, from the end of heaven,
even the LORD, and the weapons of his indignation,
to destroy the whole land. -70 A.D.-
[6] Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand
it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.
[7] Therefore shall all hands be faint,
and every man's heart shall melt:

The Spiritual kingdom exists now.
The literal Kingdom is pending.

The God of Israel is always in the midst of his people...
Gentiles misunderstand many things --even baptism

May you find
 

Timeline

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2014
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#14
If you have to have 3everything figured out and make sense before you believe it can happen, you are going to be disappointed
when Jesus comes he will come wether or not you know about it, wether or not you are ready and wether or not your pastor agrees with it

hubris is a terrible sin and makes it impossible to go to heaven.
what's hubris?
 

Timeline

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2014
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#15
Ezekiel12:21-28 [SUP]21 [/SUP]Then the word of the Lord came to me, saying, [SUP]22 [/SUP]“Son of man, what is this proverb you people have concerning the land of Israel, saying, ‘The days are long and every vision fails’? [SUP]23 [/SUP]Therefore say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God, “I will make this proverb cease so that they will no longer use it as a proverb in Israel.” But tell them, “The days draw near as well as the fulfillment of every vision. [SUP]24 [/SUP]For there will no longer be any false vision or flattering divination within the house of Israel. [SUP]25 [/SUP]For I the Lord will speak, and whatever word I speak will be performed. It will no longer be delayed, for in your days, O rebellious house, I will speak the word and perform it,” declares the Lord God.’”
[SUP]26 [/SUP]Furthermore, the word of the Lord came to me, saying, [SUP]27 [/SUP]“Son of man, behold, the house of Israel is saying, ‘The vision that he sees is for many years from now, and he prophesies of times far off.’ [SUP]28 [/SUP]Therefore say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God, “None of My words will be delayed any longer. Whatever word I speak will be performed,”’” declares the Lord God.


Daniel 8:26
The vision of the evenings and mornings
Which has been told is true;
But keep the vision secret,
For it pertains to many days in the future.”

How long was many days in the future?


Rev 22:10-11
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And he said to me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near. [SUP]11 [/SUP]Let the one who does wrong, still do wrong; and the one who is filthy, still be filthy; and let the one who is righteous, still practice righteousness; and the one who is holy, still keep himself holy.”

If Daniel 8:26 was many days in the future, then what is meant by the time is near?

The fact that scholars claim that Revelation was written between 70AD (very early date) and 100AD (Late date), I believe, has caused many of the problems with it's interpretation as I believe most or all of it had been fulfilled by 70AD (as we understand the timeline - 70AD is not recorded in the bible as the destruction of Jerusalem, meaning there is not a date given for the destruction).
 
M

mrsouthside

Guest
#17
Revelation 19:19-21
And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh. So as we can see it is not the roman armies God uses in armegeddon by the Messiah all by Himself.” Was the beast Nero, he was not captured as he died a few years before 70 AD.


Zechariah 14:2-5:
For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem; the city shall be taken, the houses rifled, and the women ravished. Half of the city shall go into captivity, but the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.Then the LORD will go forth and fight against those nations, as He fights in the day of battle. And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which faces Jerusalem on the east. And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, from east to west, making a very large valley; half of the mountain shall move toward the north and half of it toward the south. Then you shall flee through My mountain valley, for the mountain valley shall reach to Azal. Yes, you shall flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Thus the LORD my God will come, and all the saints with You.”


All nations are gathered, not nation - singular (Rome), this is what is known as Armageddon. It is the Lords return that vanquishes the nations that have come out to fight him. Does the Scripture say the Lord fights against the nations coming against Israel or he fights against Israel with the Pagan Roman armies? Did his feet touch down on the Mount of Olives and split it?
 

Timeline

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2014
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#18
What do you think about this verse?
John 3:13 No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man.
 

Timeline

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2014
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#19
Revelation 19:19-21
And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh. So as we can see it is not the roman armies God uses in armegeddon by the Messiah all by Himself.” Was the beast Nero, he was not captured as he died a few years before 70 AD.


Zechariah 14:2-5:
For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem; the city shall be taken, the houses rifled, and the women ravished. Half of the city shall go into captivity, but the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.Then the LORD will go forth and fight against those nations, as He fights in the day of battle. And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which faces Jerusalem on the east. And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, from east to west, making a very large valley; half of the mountain shall move toward the north and half of it toward the south. Then you shall flee through My mountain valley, for the mountain valley shall reach to Azal. Yes, you shall flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Thus the LORD my God will come, and all the saints with You.”


All nations are gathered, not nation - singular (Rome), this is what is known as Armageddon. It is the Lords return that vanquishes the nations that have come out to fight him. Does the Scripture say the Lord fights against the nations coming against Israel or he fights against Israel with the Pagan Roman armies? Did his feet touch down on the Mount of Olives and split it?
[SUP][/SUP]Acts 2:8-11 [SUP] [/SUP]And how is it that we each hear them in our own language to which we were born? [SUP]9 [/SUP]Parthians and Medes and Elamites, and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, [SUP]10 [/SUP]Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the districts of Libya around Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, [SUP]11 [/SUP]Cretans and Arabs—we hear them in our own tongues speaking of the mighty deeds of God.”

Why were these people in Jerusalem and when did they get there? Not to mention the verses that say, "For truly in this city there were gathered together against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose predestined to occur.

So, if Paul counts it, who am I to say that it doesn't count?
 
M

mrsouthside

Guest
#20
What do you think about this verse?
John 3:13 No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man.
you left out part of the scripture.

13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.


Proverbs 30:4
Who has gone up to heaven and come down? Whose hands have gathered up the wind? Who has wrapped up the waters in a cloak? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is his name, and what is the name of his son? Surely you know!