Easter, by any other name.

[ob77]

Now that the "Easter Holiday" has passed, I can now rile people up. I want to change the name of Christ's resurrection. I wish to name it after the goddess of Baal. Baal is another name for Satan as you may or may not know. So, what do you think?

Ahh....too late, for that has already happened. Yes, boys and girls, we were deceived again. In Acts 12-4 in some English versions of the bible (including the 1611 King James version, which I use) Paul says" intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people" - This was in reference to Peter being apprehended and kept prisoned. Paul never wrote the word "easter".
He wrote the word Pascha, which is Passover in the greek. Christ became our Passover, not our easter.
Easter is a heathen term, derived from the saxon goddess Eastre. the same as Astarte, the Syrian venus, called Ashteroth, who was goddess of Baal. Baal, for those of you who may or not know is another name for Satan.
Why the translators chose this word I will never know, other than to confuse. Now, some will say - Yes but the word easter does not mean what it did then. Yes it does. words have meaning and God knows what they mean as they originally were used. So then why does the clergy continue to deceive? We mustn't rock the boat, we mustn't upset the moneygivers, we might reduce our fleecing of the sheep! Think upon this now....all the easter stuff, the bunnies, the eggs and so forth, these were all symbolic of the orgies of the Lupercalia and heathen fertility rites dating all back to the terms I provided above, lest I not mention the earth goddess Gaia, who came out of the sea onto the shore in a giant egg.
This is horrible stuff, I know, but we as Christians need to stand up and say NO! Listen, when I had small kids, we hid the baskets with all the candy and stuff, but when it came to what we were actually celebrating, the kids were already brainwashed into thinking that the easter bunny brought all those goodies, and who is the Christ guy, he did not bring us these things, the bunny did. I am guilty of these things, in ignorance at the time, yes, but still guilty. I have since asked for forgiveness, for I no longer partake in pagan rituals that is easter. For goodness sakes, at least consider these things I have said here. I do this out of love for my fellow brethren, more than chastisement.

 

[Nick01]

Now that the "Easter Holiday" has passed, I can now rile people up. I want to change the name of Christ's resurrection. I wish to name it after the goddess of Baal. Baal is another name for Satan as you may or may not know. So, what do you think?

A little surprised we haven't had more of these threads this Easter, but no matter.

IF it causes issues for you, that's fine, don't call it that. To be fair, I do think the KJV errs a little bit in using the term Easter at that point, but it's not major. Despite your assertion, the reality is that language changes. Even though the origins of the word Easter are far from clear (it's not even clear that Eastre actually was worshipped anywhere, given there is only one ambiguous source attesting to her worship in all of history - or that Eastre bears any relation to Astarte/Ashtoreth).

Likewise, the eggs, etc, have little if any shown connection with fertility rituals, least of all Lupercalia, which took place in February, not April. I have never heard of Gaia emerging from an egg of the sea (although I believe some of the Orphic stuff has the Earth originally formed roughly into the shape of an egg, with some combination of Gaia and Ouranos inside).

At the end of the day, I take Paul's line - if it's ok to eat food sacrificed to idols if done in conscience, it's ok to call Easter Easter, if done in conscience. Except I would say food sacrificed to idols is far worse than Easter, because almost all of the explicit pagan links to Easter are without real evidence, and are just the same fanciful conspiracy theories rehashed again and again, without any real reference to the sources of history.

 

[Hizikyah]

Deuteronomy 12:3, "You must destroy their altars, break down their sacred pillars and burn their sacred poles. Cut down the images of their gods and wipe out their names from those places. You must not worship Yahweh your Father in such ways."

Isayah 30:9-13, "That this rebellious people, lying children, are children who will not hear; (listen to), the Law of Yahweh; Who say to the seers; Do not see! Who say to the prophets; Do not prophesy right things to us, speak smooth things to us, prophesy deceits; Get out of the way, turn away from the path, cause the Holy One of Israyl to cease from our presence! Therefore, this is what the Holy One of Israyl says: Because you despise this word (the Law) , and trust in oppression and perverseness, and stay thereon. Therefore, this iniquity will be to you like a breach; a weakened wall ready to fall a bulge of a high wall which breaks suddenly, in an instant."

 

[Hizikyah]

"Eostre: Saxon and Neo-Pagan goddess of fertility and springtime whom the holiday Easter was originally named after." (Gerina Dunwich, The Concise Lexicon of the Occult, New York: Citadel Press, 1990 p.54)

"EASTER: Bæde Temp. Rat. XV. derives the word from Eostre (Northumb. spelling Éastre), the name of a goddess whose festival was celebrated at the vernal equinox; her name...shows that she was originally the dawn-goddess." (The Oxford English Dictionary, 2nd ed. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1989)

"Astarte: a Phoenician goddess of fertility and sexual love who corresponds to the Babylonian and Assyrian goddess Ishtar and who became identified with the Egyptian Isis, the Greek Aphrodite, and others." (Oxford Dictionary of English)

"Ishtar: ancient fertility deity, the most widely worshiped goddess in Babylonian and Assyrian religion. Ishtar was important as a mother goddess, goddess of love, and goddess of war. Her cult spread throughout W Asia, and she became identified with various other earth goddesses (see GREAT MOTHER OF THE GODS). Great Mother of the Gods: in ancient Middle Eastern religion (and later in Greece, Rome, and W Asia), mother goddess, the great symbol of the earth's fertility. As the creative force in nature, she was worshiped under many names, including ASTARTE (Syria), CERES (Rome), CYBELE (Phrygia), DEMETER (Greece), ISHTAR (Babylon), and ISIS (Egypt). The later forms of her cult involved the worship of a male deity (her son or lover, e.g., ADONIS, OSIRIS), whose death and resurrection symbolized the regenerative power of the earth." (www.encyclopedia.com)

 

[ob77]

A little surprised we haven't had more of these threads this Easter, but no matter.

IF it causes issues for you, that's fine, don't call it that. To be fair, I do think the KJV errs a little bit in using the term Easter at that point, but it's not major. Despite your assertion, the reality is that language changes. Even though the origins of the word Easter are far from clear (it's not even clear that Eastre actually was worshipped anywhere, given there is only one ambiguous source attesting to her worship in all of history - or that Eastre bears any relation to Astarte/Ashtoreth).

Likewise, the eggs, etc, have little if any shown connection with fertility rituals, least of all Lupercalia, which took place in February, not April. I have never heard of Gaia emerging from an egg of the sea (although I believe some of the Orphic stuff has the Earth originally formed roughly into the shape of an egg, with some combination of Gaia and Ouranos inside).

At the end of the day, I take Paul's line - if it's ok to eat food sacrificed to idols if done in conscience, it's ok to call Easter Easter, if done in conscience. Except I would say food sacrificed to idols is far worse than Easter, because almost all of the explicit pagan links to Easter are without real evidence, and are just the same fanciful conspiracy theories rehashed again and again, without any real reference to the sources of history.

I stand solidly with what I said. Words mean things. There is no earthly reason to call Passover, Easter. None.

 

[Nick01]

"Eostre: Saxon and Neo-Pagan goddess of fertility and springtime whom the holiday Easter was originally named after." (Gerina Dunwich, The Concise Lexicon of the Occult, New York: Citadel Press, 1990 p.54)

"EASTER: Bæde Temp. Rat. XV. derives the word from Eostre (Northumb. spelling Éastre), the name of a goddess whose festival was celebrated at the vernal equinox; her name...shows that she was originally the dawn-goddess." (The Oxford English Dictionary, 2nd ed. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1989)

"Astarte: a Phoenician goddess of fertility and sexual love who corresponds to the Babylonian and Assyrian goddess Ishtar and who became identified with the Egyptian Isis, the Greek Aphrodite, and others." (Oxford Dictionary of English)

"Ishtar: ancient fertility deity, the most widely worshiped goddess in Babylonian and Assyrian religion. Ishtar was important as a mother goddess, goddess of love, and goddess of war. Her cult spread throughout W Asia, and she became identified with various other earth goddesses (see GREAT MOTHER OF THE GODS). Great Mother of the Gods: in ancient Middle Eastern religion (and later in Greece, Rome, and W Asia), mother goddess, the great symbol of the earth's fertility. As the creative force in nature, she was worshiped under many names, including ASTARTE (Syria), CERES (Rome), CYBELE (Phrygia), DEMETER (Greece), ISHTAR (Babylon), and ISIS (Egypt). The later forms of her cult involved the worship of a male deity (her son or lover, e.g., ADONIS, OSIRIS), whose death and resurrection symbolized the regenerative power of the earth." (www.encyclopedia.com)

All 20th century sources. Can you direct me to a primary source, or at least something older than, say, the 10th century, from where this information presumably comes, please? Particularly some primary source material on Eostre would be nice. The entries you linked regarding Astarte and Ishtar are irrelevant to the immediate question of Easter ( I will also note that the encycolopedia.com entry seems erroneous anyway - Adonis did not die and rise again in any of his related stories until the post-Christian era, while Osiris wasn't really resurrected - he became the keeper of the underworld and judge of the souls of the dead.

 

[Kerry]

Okay alright. the English word Easter comes from German and the pagan Germans worshiped some false god and they used the egg to represent its dying in winter and return in spring and the bunny or rabbit as the produce wildly in the spring. I meant if you have two rabbits in a month you will have 45 rabbits, so to speak. The life of a rabbit. But is was introduced to the church saying that a chicken when born left behind a empty tomb, speaking of the egg. I would rather the whole thing be left out. But does your church have a druid Christmas tree come December 25. The question is where is your faith.

 

[And]

Easter is not in the bible.
the king james guys mistranslated pascha into easter

pascha was translated 29 times into passover
and one time into easter

obviously catholic false doctrine trying to change the Bible
passover and easter is NOT the same thing they occur at different times.

 

[Nick01]

I stand solidly with what I said. Words mean things. There is no earthly reason to call Passover, Easter. None.

Words change meaning, and connote different things at different times. The word bless comes from an old German word referring to a pagan blood sprinkling ritual. Do you propose to change that word as well? The word defecate originally meant purify - would you consider using that in your English today, in church services perhaps, when referring to Christ purifying us? Do you see how hopelessly reductionist the statement 'words mean things' is?

In any case, the word Easter (and for that matter, Eostre) most likely, according to Bede, who is the only source on this matter, comes from the month in which the Passover was celebrated in the British Isles when Christianity was first taken there. There may or may not be a connection to some pagan goddess earlier than that, but if there is, any detailed description of what, if any, that ritual or goddess was about is gone at this point. It may just be (in fact, is almost certain) that that month was picked because it corresponded to the Jewish Passover, and that was that name it happened to have. If you want to call if Pascha or whatever (you might run in to difficulty trying to call it Passover), fine. I simply take umbrage at saying that it is inherently wrong - it's not.

 

[Hizikyah]

All 20th century sources. Can you direct me to a primary source, or at least something older than, say, the 10th century, from where this information presumably comes, please? Particularly some primary source material on Eostre would be nice. The entries you linked regarding Astarte and Ishtar are irrelevant to the immediate question of Easter ( I will also note that the encycolopedia.com entry seems erroneous anyway - Adonis did not die and rise again in any of his related stories until the post-Christian era, while Osiris wasn't really resurrected - he became the keeper of the underworld and judge of the souls of the dead.

There is overwhelming evidence everywhere, some just dont want to see it.

If we defended Messiah as much as we did pagan holidays there may be more followers of truth.

 

[ob77]

A little surprised we haven't had more of these threads this Easter, but no matter.

IF it causes issues for you, that's fine, don't call it that. To be fair, I do think the KJV errs a little bit in using the term Easter at that point, but it's not major. Despite your assertion, the reality is that language changes. Even though the origins of the word Easter are far from clear (it's not even clear that Eastre actually was worshipped anywhere, given there is only one ambiguous source attesting to her worship in all of history - or that Eastre bears any relation to Astarte/Ashtoreth).

Likewise, the eggs, etc, have little if any shown connection with fertility rituals, least of all Lupercalia, which took place in February, not April. I have never heard of Gaia emerging from an egg of the sea (although I believe some of the Orphic stuff has the Earth originally formed roughly into the shape of an egg, with some combination of Gaia and Ouranos inside).

At the end of the day, I take Paul's line - if it's ok to eat food sacrificed to idols if done in conscience, it's ok to call Easter Easter, if done in conscience. Except I would say food sacrificed to idols is far worse than Easter, because almost all of the explicit pagan links to Easter are without real evidence, and are just the same fanciful conspiracy theories rehashed again and again, without any real reference to the sources of history.

Depends on your level of study, I guess. This is not to belittle you or others in any way, but I must tell you that I have been at this sort of thing a long time. I feel sorry for those who cannot access the materials that I have , for they have long since been destroyed at the hands of those who do not want you to know certain things, Yes, and I know the argument already, that I can invent anything I choose, which is true with anything. Surely, I say to you that truth is the only thing I am interested in, I gain nothing in doing otherwise. I will say this: that upon my death, many things will go with me, including my library, in which I have many old books, long out of print, that no one will care about and will be tossed out as mere nonsense.
As long as I have this medium, I may share what is true and what is false.

 

[Hizikyah]

Okay alright. the English word Easter comes from German and the pagan Germans worshiped some false god and they used the egg to represent its dying in winter and return in spring and the bunny or rabbit as the produce wildly in the spring. I meant if you have two rabbits in a month you will have 45 rabbits, so to speak. The life of a rabbit. But is was introduced to the church saying that a chicken when born left behind a empty tomb, speaking of the egg. I would rather the whole thing be left out. But does your church have a druid Christmas tree come December 25. The question is where is your faith.

"The question is where is your faith"

I agree, is it in "worshiping" the Creator in ways of paganism or true worship?

Yahchanan (John) 4:23-24, "But the hour comes, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in Spirit and in truth; for the Father seeks just such worshipers to worship Him. Yahweh is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth."

 

[JustAnotherUser]

It's good to see there's people that actually know their origin of the terms that are supposed to be religious holidays when many if not all root from Paganism, which is what the Bible is 100% against.

 

[Nick01]

There is overwhelming evidence everywhere, some just dont want to see it.

If we defended Messiah as much as we did pagan holidays there may be more followers of truth.

Oh believe me, I defend Messiah plenty. I just do so offline, not online on a forum presumably populated by Christians.

To you and ob77, you make much of the fact that there are plenty of sources. Then it is all really quite simple - give me solid, primary sources from the relevant time periods (NOT contemporary sources, not from amateur Egyptologists, not from theologians, but from actual historical sources at least earlier than the 10th century) that shows me the connections between eggs, easter bunnies, the word Easter, or whatever, with all of these pagan gods, goddesses and rituals that we have supposedly adopted. It simply does not matter how much you have read - not to belittle you or others in any way, but it the only thing that matters is whether what you have read is TRUE and has a foundation in reality.

But this comes back to my original point - EVEN IF I conceded every argument you have made, at the end of the day, how is this any different to what Paul has to say about eating food sacrificed to idols?

 

[Daley]

Now that the "Easter Holiday" has passed, I can now rile people up. I want to change the name of Christ's resurrection. I wish to name it after the goddess of Baal. Baal is another name for Satan as you may or may not know. So, what do you think?

Ahh....too late, for that has already happened. Yes, boys and girls, we were deceived again. In Acts 12-4 in some English versions of the bible (including the 1611 King James version, which I use) Paul says" intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people" - This was in reference to Peter being apprehended and kept prisoned. Paul never wrote the word "easter".
He wrote the word Pascha, which is Passover in the greek. Christ became our Passover, not our easter.
Easter is a heathen term, derived from the saxon goddess Eastre. the same as Astarte, the Syrian venus, called Ashteroth, who was goddess of Baal. Baal, for those of you who may or not know is another name for Satan.
Why the translators chose this word I will never know, other than to confuse. Now, some will say - Yes but the word easter does not mean what it did then. Yes it does. words have meaning and God knows what they mean as they originally were used. So then why does the clergy continue to deceive? We mustn't rock the boat, we mustn't upset the moneygivers, we might reduce our fleecing of the sheep! Think upon this now....all the easter stuff, the bunnies, the eggs and so forth, these were all symbolic of the orgies of the Lupercalia and heathen fertility rites dating all back to the terms I provided above, lest I not mention the earth goddess Gaia, who came out of the sea onto the shore in a giant egg.
This is horrible stuff, I know, but we as Christians need to stand up and say NO! Listen, when I had small kids, we hid the baskets with all the candy and stuff, but when it came to what we were actually celebrating, the kids were already brainwashed into thinking that the easter bunny brought all those goodies, and who is the Christ guy, he did not bring us these things, the bunny did. I am guilty of these things, in ignorance at the time, yes, but still guilty. I have since asked for forgiveness, for I no longer partake in pagan rituals that is easter. For goodness sakes, at least consider these things I have said here. I do this out of love for my fellow brethren, more than chastisement.

“The shape of the [two-beamed cross] had its origin in ancient Chaldea, and was used as the symbol of the god Tammuz (being in the shape of the mystic Tau, the initial of his name) in that country and in adjacent lands, including Egypt.

“By the middle of the third century AD, the churches had either departed from, or had travestied, certain doctrines of the Christian faith. In order to increase the prestige of the apostate ecclesiastical system, pagans were received into the churches apart from regeneration by faith, and were permitted largely to retain their pagan signs and symbols.
“Hence the Tau or T, in its most frequent form, with the cross-piece lowered, was adopted to stand for the cross of Christ.” (An Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words (London, 1962), W. E. Vine, p. 256)


Did Paul reject the cross because of its pagan roots? No, rather, he looked upon it as a reminder of what Jesus did for him.
“For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God (1 Corinthians 1:18). He speaks of those who reject the gospel as “enemies of the cross of Christ”. (Philippians 3:18)


Those who argue against the use of Easter for pagan origins usually are not consistent in this logic, for they too accept a host of other practices linked to paganism. For example, marriage customs: “Although for Americans covering the bride’s face with a veil has come to represent innocence and purity, the practice was originally used in other cultures as protection from harm or molestation and was one of many rituals adopted out of concern for the happiness, safety, and fertility of the bride and groom.

“The current Western practice of having a bridal party to attend the couple evolved from a Roman tradition, in which the bridesmaids and ushers dressed exactly like the bride and groom, to protect the wedding couple by confusing evil spirits.” (Something Old, Something New – Ethnic Weddings in America, 1987, p. 8)


The custom of giving a wedding ring also dates back to the ancient Romans, and the wedding cake has its origins far back in time. Should we reject these as well? I suppose you don't even use the calendar.


“Our [Roman] calendar is not Christian in origin. It descends directly from the Egyptians, who originated the 12-month year, 365-day system.

“A pagan Egyptian scientist, Sosigenes, suggested this plan to the pagan Emperor Julius Caesar, who directed that it go into effect throughout the Roman Empire in 45 BC. As adopted, it indicated its pagan origin by the names of the months – called after Janus, Maia, Juno, etc.” (Journal of Calendar Reform, Sept. 1953, p. 128.) All the names of the days of the week are named after false gods, so should we stop using Thursday (god of thunder) and Monday (the moon god)? What should we call these days?



Did you know the Bible allows Christians to eat meat offered in sacrifice to pagan idols as long as the Christian eating the meat does so with a heart of gratitude toward God and does not cause a weaker brother to stumble by doing so? (1 Corinthians 8:4, 7-8)


We have many examples in the Bible of God's people, with God's approval, using pagan elements with a different meaning. So it matters not if we use the word Easter, it only matters what we mean and what is in our hearts when we do.

 

[Hizikyah]

Oh believe me, I defend Messiah plenty. I just do so offline, not online on a forum presumably populated by Christians.

To you and ob77, you make much of the fact that there are plenty of sources. Then it is all really quite simple - give me solid, primary sources from the relevant time periods (NOT contemporary sources, not from amateur Egyptologists, not from theologians, but from actual historical sources at least earlier than the 10th century) that shows me the connections between eggs, easter bunnies, the word Easter, or whatever, with all of these pagan gods, goddesses and rituals that we have supposedly adopted. It simply does not matter how much you have read - not to belittle you or others in any way, but it the only thing that matters is whether what you have read is TRUE and has a foundation in reality.

But this comes back to my original point - EVEN IF I conceded every argument you have made, at the end of the day, how is this any different to what Paul has to say about sacrificing to idols?

the wave of the hand and any source is discredited...

It is not ok to sacrifice to idols

It is not ok to worship Yahweh in pagan ways

These holidays are so blatantly pagan I dont even know what to say...


"The term 'Easter' is not of Christian origin. It is another form of Astarte, one of the titles of the Chaldean goddess, the queen of heaven. The festival of Pasch [Passover and the Feast of Unleavens] was a continuation of the Jewish [that is, God's] feast....from this Pasch the pagan festival of 'Easter' was quite distinct and was introduced into the apostate Western religion, as part of the attempt to adapt pagan festivals to Christianity." (W.E. Vine, Merrill F. Unger, William White, Jr., Vine's Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words, article: Easter, p.192)

 

[Nick01]

the wave of the hand and any source is discredited...

It is not ok to sacrifice to idols

It is not ok to worship Yahweh in pagan ways

These holidays are so blatantly pagan I dont even know what to say...


"The term 'Easter' is not of Christian origin. It is another form of Astarte, one of the titles of the Chaldean goddess, the queen of heaven. The festival of Pasch [Passover and the Feast of Unleavens] was a continuation of the Jewish [that is, God's] feast....from this Pasch the pagan festival of 'Easter' was quite distinct and was introduced into the apostate Western religion, as part of the attempt to adapt pagan festivals to Christianity." (W.E. Vine, Merrill F. Unger, William White, Jr., Vine's Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words, article: Easter, p.192)

What wave of the hand? I'm telling you exactly what I want - a source that tells me what people did and believed in history. Your sourcing hasn't improved any since last time we spoke - citing Vine et all is all well and good, but where do they get their information from? What sources are they referring to? How do they know what they know? How do I even know they're not making stuff up? Even a footnote reference to whatever texts they are basing their work on would be appreciated?

As for your other points:

Easter is not sacrificing to idols. (I mispoke - Paul does not say sacrificing to idols is ok, but he DOES say eating food sacrificed to idols is ok, under certain circumstances)

It depends on what you consider to be a pagan way. This cycles back in to the above discussion, but either way, I suspect it relies on a very arbitrary idea of what classifies as 'pagan' and thus 'not allowed'. For instance, should I be reading the Bible in English, or in Hebrew/Greek? Should we only use the lyre, harp, etc in church music, and are organs right out? Why or why not? Can I catch the train to church, or should I walk? Etc, etc

 

[Karraster]

Psalm 19: 4Their line has gone out through all the earth, And their utterances to the end of the world. In them He has placed a tent for the sun, 5Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber; It rejoices as a strong man to run his course.…

From the Hebrew I learn that the reference "their line" is better translated "their chorus line". The Heavens proclaims the Glory of Yahwey! He is creating for Himself a people who will glorify Him and give praise and worship and honor to Him in spirit and truth.

Deuteronomy12: 30 beware that you are not ensnared to follow them, after they are destroyed before you, and that you do not inquire after their gods, saying, 'How do these nations serve their gods, that I also may do likewise?' 31"You shall not behave thus toward the LORD your God, for every abominable act which the LORD hates they have done for their gods; for they even burn their sons and daughters in the fire to their gods. 32"Whatever I command you, you shall be careful to do; you shall not add to nor take away from it.

While no person has perfect and complete knowledge of our Creator, to disobey the truth that's been made known to you is not wise. His return is sure and soon.

 

[ob77]

All 20th century sources. Can you direct me to a primary source, or at least something older than, say, the 10th century, from where this information presumably comes, please? Particularly some primary source material on Eostre would be nice. The entries you linked regarding Astarte and Ishtar are irrelevant to the immediate question of Easter ( I will also note that the encycolopedia.com entry seems erroneous anyway - Adonis did not die and rise again in any of his related stories until the post-Christian era, while Osiris wasn't really resurrected - he became the keeper of the underworld and judge of the souls of the dead.

The information comes from the Companion Bible , printed in 1875.

 

[Hizikyah]

What wave of the hand? I'm telling you exactly what I want - a source that tells me what people did and believed in history. Your sourcing hasn't improved any since last time we spoke - citing Vine et all is all well and good, but where do they get their information from? What sources are they referring to? How do they know what they know? How do I even know they're not making stuff up? Even a footnote reference to whatever texts they are basing their work on would be appreciated?

As for your other points:

Easter is not sacrificing to idols. (I mispoke - Paul does not say sacrificing to idols is ok, but he DOES say eating food sacrificed to idols is ok, under certain circumstances)

It depends on what you consider to be a pagan way. This cycles back in to the above discussion, but either way, I suspect it relies on a very arbitrary idea of what classifies as 'pagan' and thus 'not allowed'. For instance, should I be reading the Bible in English, or in Hebrew/Greek? Should we only use the lyre, harp, etc in church music, and are organs right out? Why or why not? Can I catch the train to church, or should I walk? Etc, etc

We can question anything and everything... how do you know you really exist? Is the sun a giant firefly? Etc..

We should question things and search them out, and not just settle for the first thing we hear or read.

Each one must do this for themselves if they are honest.

I didnt bother to post any more refrences because if Oxford Dictionary and Vines is not atleast enough to wonder then IDK what will be.

If you study ancient pagan religions you will see every practice of the following or Ishtar is carried over into Easter, transformed but carried over none the less.

I have 2 grocery stores by me run by Chaldeans, one called Babylon Foods and the other Ishtar, they are cathlocs, why? Because their ancient religion is carried over into this modern one, AND THEY KNOW IT.

Did Messiah dye an egg on the execution tree? No dying eggs came from the cult of Ishtar in which the eggs were dyed in the blood of infants. Where is the Scripture commanding the dying of eggs? And why do catholics only dye their eggs red?

Now we can get silly with questions like, "what classifies as 'pagan' and thus 'not allowed'. For instance, should I be reading the Bible in English, or in Hebrew/Greek? Should we only use the lyre, harp, etc in church music, and are organs right out? Why or why not? Can I catch the train to church, or should I walk? Etc, etc "

There is a big gap between these silly things and celebrating Messiah in the ways of pagan Babylon goddess Easter. But I guess if one throws them together they can trivialize both and continue in the deception that was prophesied in Daniyl 7:25.

We are told to not worship Yahweh in their ways and to come out of Babylon...

...Not to fight tooth and nail to stay in babylon... (I say this to everyone not isolating you)