Question about Judas

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Dec 9, 2013
753
5
0
#1
Mathew 27:3-8 NIV
Then when Judas, who had betrayed Him, saw that He had been condemned, he felt remorse and returned the thirty [a]pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders, 4 saying, “I have sinned by betraying innocent blood.” But they said, “What is that to us? See to that yourself!” 5 And he threw the pieces of silver into the temple sanctuary and departed; and he went away and hanged himself. 6 The chief priests took the pieces of silver and said, “It is not lawful to put them into the temple treasury, since it is the price of blood.” 7 And they conferred together and [b]with the money bought the Potter’s Field as a burial place for strangers. 8 For this reason that field has been called the Field of Blood to this day.


Acts 1: 18-19 NIV
(With the payment he received for his wickedness, Judas bought a field; there he fell headlong, his body burst open and all his intestines spilled out. 19 Everyone in Jerusalem heard about this, so they called that field in their language Akeldama, that is, Field of Blood.)

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In all my reading of the bible I had never noticed these verses, I am posting this for two reasons.

1) To make christians aware of what the bible says.

2) To ask for insight among christians as to how they reconcile these verses in respect to the harmony of the gospels and the inerrancy of scripture.

Is this not giving two contradictory accounts concerning who bought potter's field with the thirty pieces of silver?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,530
13,098
113
#2
don't Peter & Matthew both say the same money was used to buy the same field?

conflicting details are consistent with eyewitness accounts, and inconsistent with premeditated & purposeful deception. things like this are an evidence against the new testament being a conspiratorial forgery. neither Peter nor Matthew was present at these events, and the narrative of Matthew being more detailed than the synopsis of events given in Peter's sermon introduction, since the priests could not accept the money into the treasury, they lawfully considered it Judas' money still, so it could not by deed have been the temple that purchased the land. is it plausible that they handed the money over, and Judas' name being ascribed to it, with everyone in Jerusalem knowing this, it would be commonly said that Judas had bought the field?

my mother has given us money for presents for our child, and we tell him "grandma bought this for you" though she never went to the store.
 
Dec 9, 2013
753
5
0
#3
don't Peter & Matthew both say the same money was used to buy the same field?

conflicting details are consistent with eyewitness accounts, and inconsistent with premeditated & purposeful deception. things like this are an evidence against the new testament being a conspiratorial forgery. neither Peter nor Matthew was present at these events, and the narrative of Matthew being more detailed than the synopsis of events given in Peter's sermon introduction, since the priests could not accept the money into the treasury, they lawfully considered it Judas' money still, so it could not by deed have been the temple that purchased the land. is it plausible that they handed the money over, and Judas' name being ascribed to it, with everyone in Jerusalem knowing this, it would be commonly said that Judas had bought the field?

my mother has given us money for presents for our child, and we tell him "grandma bought this for you" though she never went to the store.
Ok I also considered this, and I mostly agree that is the most plausible explanation for these accounts.

My only contention is that these books are considered absolute truth inspired by God not various accounts based on testimony and common tradition.
 
J

Jda016

Guest
#4
The two verse together actually make sense.

lets look at the first part.

Judas hanged himself. I believe after a time his body would have decomposed and either the rope or branch would have broke thus causing his body to hit the ground and burst. The decomposition caused his guts to spill forth.

Then we have the Jews buying the field versus Judas buying the field. This is where translations into English kind of fail us. Judas threw the money at the Pharisees, but they would not accept it back as their own money, so when they bought the field it is like them buying it in Judas' name. That is why we have in Acts where is says Judas bought the field.

We have another example of this in John 19:1. "Then Pilate therefore took Jesus, and scourged him." Pilate didnt actually scourge Jesus, the roman soldiers did, but it was under his authority that Jesus was scourged. The Pharisees took Judas money and bought the field with his money therefore making it as though Judas bought it.

Source: Who bought the Potter's Field, Judas or the Jews? | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry
 
Dec 9, 2013
753
5
0
#5
The two verse together actually make sense.

lets look at the first part.

Judas hanged himself. I believe after a time his body would have decomposed and either the rope or branch would have broke thus causing his body to hit the ground and burst. The decomposition caused his guts to spill forth.

Then we have the Jews buying the field versus Judas buying the field. This is where translations into English kind of fail us. Judas threw the money at the Pharisees, but they would not accept it back as their own money, so when they bought the field it is like them buying it in Judas' name. That is why we have in Acts where is says Judas bought the field.

We have another example of this in John 19:1. "Then Pilate therefore took Jesus, and scourged him." Pilate didnt actually scourge Jesus, the roman soldiers did, but it was under his authority that Jesus was scourged. The Pharisees took Judas money and bought the field with his money therefore making it as though Judas bought it.

Source: Who bought the Potter's Field, Judas or the Jews? | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry
Thanks for the link.

Ok so the contradiction has been cleared up. I completely accept the explanation because it makes logical sense.

However, isn't this typical of writings written by different fallible men, how does this further the belief that the bible is special and inspired by a perfect infallible God?
 
J

Jda016

Guest
#6
Thanks for the link.

Ok so the contradiction has been cleared up. I completely accept the explanation because it makes logical sense.

However, isn't this typical of writings written by different fallible men, how does this further the belief that the bible is special and inspired by a perfect infallible God?
Heh if everything did line up perfectly we would have people saying it couldn't be God either, because generally lies would be practiced and wouldn't have discrepancies, like Post was saying.

Jesus often spoke in parables and later explained them further to the disciples. I believe the Bible is infallible, but I also believe God desires us to seek Him out and find out what he is really saying through prayer, cross referencing, and diligent study.

The more I study God's word because something was at first confusing, the more I find myself growing closer to him and the truth of what he is trying to say is being revealed to me.

God used fallible men, but he gave them His infallible truth to write down.
 
K

Karraster

Guest
#7
Thanks for the link.

Ok so the contradiction has been cleared up. I completely accept the explanation because it makes logical sense.

However, isn't this typical of writings written by different fallible men, how does this further the belief that the bible is special and inspired by a perfect infallible God?
How else would it be possible that so many men spanning so many years, having never met, yet all agree and write the same harmonious message were it not that their source was of One origin? Further proof it (original autographs) is Divinely inspired is finding another layer of communication with means of computers.
 
S

Sirk

Guest
#8
This is a lot off topic and may be reading between the lines but I've often wondered if judas had good intentions. Let me explain. Judas figured that he would force the issue of Jesus declaring himself king of the Jews. Judas having witnessed Jesus miracles and such figured there was no way he would allow harm to come to himself???? Thus the saying....the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Rebuke me if I am outa line.
 
J

Jda016

Guest
#9
This is a lot off topic and may be reading between the lines but I've often wondered if judas had good intentions. Let me explain. Judas figured that he would force the issue of Jesus declaring himself king of the Jews. Judas having witnessed Jesus miracles and such figured there was no way he would allow harm to come to himself???? Thus the saying....the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Rebuke me if I am outa line.
I wouldn't rebuke you, but there is no Biblical evidence to really support it.

We know Judas was a thief and lover of money. The Bible seems to support that Judas was motivated out of greed (and the fact that satan entered him).
 
K

Karraster

Guest
#10
This is a lot off topic and may be reading between the lines but I've often wondered if judas had good intentions. Let me explain. Judas figured that he would force the issue of Jesus declaring himself king of the Jews. Judas having witnessed Jesus miracles and such figured there was no way he would allow harm to come to himself???? Thus the saying....the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Rebuke me if I am outa line.
I think I see where you're coming from, as I have wondered if the intent was to rush Jesus along in claiming His Kingdom on earth, thereby justifying his (Judas) actions. Then again it is obvious that greed played a pivotal role by his reaction to using the oil to anoint Jesus. Bottom line, Messiah knew what was in Judas' heart all along, and it must have been dark indeed.
 
S

Sirk

Guest
#11
I think I see where you're coming from, as I have wondered if the intent was to rush Jesus along in claiming His Kingdom on earth, thereby justifying his (Judas) actions. Then again it is obvious that greed played a pivotal role by his reaction to using the oil to anoint Jesus. Bottom line, Messiah knew what was in Judas' heart all along, and it must have been dark indeed.
Exactly. The funny thing is that the disciples right up until Jesus' resurrection didn't understand what Jesus meant when he said he would raise the temple in 3 days. Judas was looking for authority in an earthly kingdom....really, all the disciples were jockeying for position.
 
N

nw2u

Guest
#12
Whether before, during or after the passion, death, and resurrection, would Judas have been forgiven if he asked Jesus? Another off-topic question. Sorry...I just desire to know. I don't know why.
 
S

Sirk

Guest
#13
Whether before, during or after the passion, death, and resurrection, would Judas have been forgiven if he asked Jesus? Another off-topic question. Sorry...I just desire to know. I don't know why.
I've wondered that as well but am no were near keen enough to answer it.
 
J

Jda016

Guest
#14
Well Jesus forgave the woman at the well who committed adultery (before). He forgave the thief on the cross (during the passion). And we know anyone who calls out to God in belief can be saved (after death).

so I would imagine Judas could have been forgiven any time if he truly repented from his heart.

I think the fact that he killed himself showed that he never came to repentance though.
 
N

nw2u

Guest
#15
That's what I was thinking, Jda016. I think he didn't believe that Jesus was God in the flesh and therefore had no faith that Christ could forgive him. Thanks. :)
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,530
13,098
113
#16
i always feel like i ought to plead Judas' case. it seems disingenuous for us to preach forgiveness and to each other but not to him.
Jesus called him "friend" in the garden when he kissed him. though He also called him a devil, didn't he speak even more harshly to Peter? and Judas' acts after Jesus was taken - throwing the money back at the priests, and killing himself - these are acts of a heart that has turned away in grief and regret from what it had done.

if Judas cannot have received mercy, why could an of us?
 
S

Sirk

Guest
#17
i always feel like i ought to plead Judas' case. it seems disingenuous for us to preach forgiveness and to each other but not to him.
Jesus called him "friend" in the garden when he kissed him. though He also called him a devil, didn't he speak even more harshly to Peter? and Judas' acts after Jesus was taken - throwing the money back at the priests, and killing himself - these are acts of a heart that has turned away in grief and regret from what it had done.

if Judas cannot have received mercy, why could an of us?
I'm with ya. I can't imagine what a confusing time it was for all of those men.....and each one played a role in your and my salvation.
 
K

Karraster

Guest
#18
Exactly. The funny thing is that the disciples right up until Jesus' resurrection didn't understand what Jesus meant when he said he would raise the temple in 3 days. Judas was looking for authority in an earthly kingdom....really, all the disciples were jockeying for position.
Hindsight is clearer than foresight, how well I know. It was a bit disturbing to me when I first saw how badly the disciples of Messiah acted at times, wanting to call down fire on people and such, and yeah also arguing about who was going to sit where, but really that is the human condition. A good lesson to us how diligently we should perpetually guard our hearts.
 
S

Sirk

Guest
#20
Hindsight is clearer than foresight, how well I know. It was a bit disturbing to me when I first saw how badly the disciples of Messiah acted at times, wanting to call down fire on people and such, and yeah also arguing about who was going to sit where, but really that is the human condition. A good lesson to us how diligently we should perpetually guard our hearts.
I am sure that had I been in any of the disciples shoes I would have been a complete disaster.