what Lord told me about my anger at pastors

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Dec 20, 2013
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4
0
#1
This is what Lord told me about my anger at pastors: Pastors start with a spirit, heart and most importantly, a desire to hear the voice of Yhvh. Then, almost without noticing, the weightiness of their responsibilities to their spiritual family (rent, attendance, utilities, missions, supplies, employees, etc.) and to their biological family (rent, utilities, cars, children, spouse, etc.) becomes their idol, confusing their ears to the voice of Lord.
Matt 13:22-23
"And the one on whom seed was sown among the thorns, this is the man who hears the word, and the worry of the world and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful.
Increasing church income to satisfy a burgeoning budget becomes the over-riding concern of pastors and elders rather than teaching the true blessings of Yhvh. Thus, holding onto the flock at all costs becomes vital to gaining mammon for the support of their desires. These idols eat away at the spirit of pastors and elders until they no longer hear the voice of Yhvh, but instead listen only to the spirit of their hearts.
Jeremiah 23:16-17
"Do not listen to what the prophets are prophesying to you; they fill you with false hopes.
They speak visions from their own minds, not from the mouth of the LORD.
They keep saying to those who despise me, 'The LORD says: You will have peace.'
And to all who follow the stubbornness of their hearts they say, 'No harm will come to you.' NIV

2 Cor 11:3
But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent's cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. NIV
Yhvh’s word warns with clarity, teaching how the adversary can slip in dressed as an angel of light.
2 Cor 11:12-15
But what I am doing I will continue to do, so that I may cut off opportunity from those who desire an opportunity to be regarded just as we are in the matter about which they are boasting. For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light . Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds.
Yet we all think ourselves impervious to the treacheries of Satan! I have seen Satan use this very ruse of mimicking an Angel of Light and was directed by my Lord in how I would discern the voice of the Spirit Of the Most High. Lord promised that no matter how far from the ‘norm’ His words in my ears seemed, He would always second them in the written Word, as His witness. (The bible is for proving the words we get from Yhvh.)
Prov 1:2-7
To know wisdom and instruction, To discern the sayings of understanding, To receive instruction in wise behavior, Righteousness, justice and equity; To give prudence to the naive, To the youth knowledge and discretion, A wise man will hear and increase in learning, And a man of understanding will acquire wise counsel, To understand a proverb and a figure, the words of the wise and their riddles. The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge
Definition of discern - transitive and intransitive verb to be able to tell the difference between two or more things
2 Tim 3:15-17
All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work. NASB
Definition of "inspired" - based on a particular motive or example
Definition of "adequate" - enough = sufficient in quality or quantity to meet a need or qualify for something or just barely enough = just barely sufficient in quality or quantity to meet a need or qualify for something.
As I came into understanding what Lord was teaching me, I could easily see how Satan had blinded the majority of people trying their best to be men of Yhvh. I could also see how man had chosen to ignore much of what the word says in an attempt to cling to his precepts.
Many present day teachings are merely manipulations of the masses by pastors, priests, rabbis, scribes and governors who are entrenched in a business paradigm: limiting their trust in Yhvh to meeting their needs and their desire to control man through the self-righteousness they developed for comfort zones. In blindness we have had those awash in the traditions of man and those who simply do not know the truth and others trapped by their desire to resist change, preaching what they think they know to be the truth.
All this must change as we prepare the way for the return of the Lord. That change begins with the first things you must understand to begin your true walk with Lord and Creator. The teaching of these have been called for since the beginning of biblical teachings and reaffirmed by the teachings of our Messiah and his disciples. The following verse is something I (as should we all) take very seriously:
Matt 5:19-20
"Whoever then "annuls" one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.
(Annuls, or breaks, translates from the Greek word: luo [loo’-o]; a primary verb; 'to loosen'’)
So it is truly said: anyone who loosens even one of the least of Yhvh's commandments will be least in heaven. Yet church leaders for the last 2000 years take away from and add to the words of Yhvh as they please with “question me not” or “you have to understand” or “touch not the anointed of the Lord” arguments to justify themselves.
 
S

Sirk

Guest
#2
I understand what you are saying but you are painting with a pretty broad brush. I am not a pastor but I am close with several and what you are describing is by and large, not my experience.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
113
#3
howdy!

this is off-topic, so you can ignore it if you want... so just a question... why do you use the Yhvh for God's name? why not follow the New Testament practice of using the greek word 'lord'... not sure how to spell that greek word... something like 'kyrios' if I remember :)
 
Jan 6, 2012
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#4
"These idols eat away at the spirit of pastors and elders until they no longer hear the voice of Yhvh, but instead listen only to the spirit of their hearts." This has been my experience: when church leaders start focusing on things like money, the first thing to go (and the first thing they'll start hating) is the voice of the Lord.

Sirk, it's okay to paint with a broad brush actually. Only in our permissive times did it become a bad thing. God paints this way often, both in the OT and NT. When God destroyed cities and nations, He didn't stop to tell the Israelis to leave the innocent babies and animals unharmed. In Jer. 6:10-11 and 8:13-14, God paints it really broad: "From the least of them even to the greatest, EVERYONE is given to covetousness, and from the prophet to the priest, EVERYONE deals falsely. They have also healed the hurt of My people slightly saying, 'Peace, peace' when there is no peace." We may say that practically everyone at the time fit that; but Jesus had followers who were Pharisees... yet He painted all Pharisees with a broad brush. If we think this broad brush of judgment only applied under the Old Covenant, let's look at the broad brush in the NT:

"Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, saying: 'The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do. For they bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. But all their works they do to be seen by men. They make their phylacteries broad and enlarge the borders of their garments. They love the best places at feasts, the best seats in the synagogues, greetings in the marketplaces, and to be called by men, "Rabbi, Rabbi".’" (Matt. 23.)

From there, Jesus pronounced seven woes on the Pharisees as a whole; He didn't name Nicodemus, Joseph of Arimathea, or any of the other Pharisees who believed. This is because the broad brush and generalizing was always firstly meant to cover what it applied to and to leave out what it didn't apply to.

God pronounced judgment on all of Sodom and Gomorrah and on other nations without stopping to tell us all the little children or other people who were innocent. We can't always pick and choose or be delicate with the Word; it has to be thrown out like a net so that it catches the fish it catches and the ones it doesn't don't therefore fit or apply. A certain sower went out to sow seed, and he scattered the seed here and there; he didn't take time to set each seed in a certain place as that's impractical and would take forever. Often when the Word is preached or spoken, it doesn't need to be and shouldn't be qualified: scatter it and let it fall where it will. Wherever it applies, it will adhere, and wherever it doesn't, it won't stick. Let the Holy Spirit be the One who divides things to each person; but let people spread the seed as is natural. Fear of 'broad brushing' and generalizing is man-made (man made it so that judgment had to be precise with pointing fingers which can't point at many simultaneously... but a broad stroke, brush, or indication can); God does it all the time. Let the seed fall where it will and God, who alone knows what applies to who, will apply it to those to whom it applies.
 
Jan 6, 2012
1,233
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#5
I understand what you are saying but you are painting with a pretty broad brush. I am not a pastor but I am close with several and what you are describing is by and large, not my experience.
I should mention that the Pharisees and scribes and teachers of the Law of Jesus' time were His day's pastors and ministers; yet, He painted them all with a broad brush of being hypocrites. While we may think we know that our Christian leaders, Christian friends, and others have a relationship with the Lord, the Bible says, "The Lord knows those who are His." Until we exercise and see by discernment, only Jesus really knows who follows Him. I like police because of what they represent (authority for good); but I don't like the way they are trained (I won't go into it). In the same way, though hasn't pastors today have good hearts, the way they are trained, by seminary or experience or the people, tends to lead away from God and not to Him.
 
S

Sirk

Guest
#6
I should mention that the Pharisees and scribes and teachers of the Law of Jesus' time were His day's pastors and ministers; yet, He painted them all with a broad brush of being hypocrites. While we may think we know that our Christian leaders, Christian friends, and others have a relationship with the Lord, the Bible says, "The Lord knows those who are His." Until we exercise and see by discernment, only Jesus really knows who follows Him. I like police because of what they represent (authority for good); but I don't like the way they are trained (I won't go into it). In the same way, though hasn't pastors today have good hearts, the way they are trained, by seminary or experience or the people, tends to lead away from God and not to Him.
I think you do make a good point. The reality is that our churches are full of pharisees. They are the ones who are no longer following Jesus but know the language, bow their heads when praying and are all about doing instead of receiving. They look a lot like Christians but more like the world. They gossip and hang around in their little clicks...... Get together over beers bought with church money. I know exactly what this post is referring to and I am not in disagreement.
 
Feb 16, 2011
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#7
Some problems I see with pastors bother me too. Tithe: Im not against tithe but most pastors fail to bring it to the New Testiment. They quote the Old Testiment law which is when tithe was payed to the Levites. I give but I dont pretend I owe 10% to someone assuming an old testiment role. Levites had no inheritance. If you want the tithe live like a levite. Pastor only: alot of pastors for years have preached like pastor is the only office of the Church. All the other offices ceased supposedly. I challenge you if all the other offices ceased to prove that pastor didnt cease with them. How convenient pastor says he gets to stay but everything else pretty much goes.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,647
13,121
113
#8
i must have teh plankeye because i see so many popular threads about condemning this group or that group and arguing over interpretation and theology, but very few "praise God for His goodness" threads.

so:

praise God for His goodness! He has given us another day, in his mercy & patience putting off judgement, and in His great grace sending Christ as a propitiation for our sin!
 
R

Richie_2uk

Guest
#9
Hello Woodartdon. We all know that these things go on in all churches, what ever religion, faiths, or beliefs you are currently serving at. and without realizing, you could be painting a broad picture and many people may take offense. It would be wise for you not to get caught up in there doings if they are doing wrong. Let God deal with them, but love them in God's love and focus on your own journey. yes you will see many agreements and disagreements no matter church you go to. You tell me were is a perfect church? and I will go to it. Let God deal with each person individually, and you concentrate on your own journey with God.

Pastors, deacons, leaders, elders or what ever titles they have, have one common thing with you all, It's called being human, not everyone can be right all the time, and of course as you kn ow, we ALL make mistakes, so if a pastor is somewhat making you anger, then wouldn't be better to pull him aside, and have a quiet word, not to express your anger, but to share your anger and reasons why you are angry? If you believe in God's wisdom, he will give you the right words to say and even ask. but at least then you are therefore approaching the situation a more Godly way, rather talking behind his back on a Christian website.

God is a good God, people should trust him once in a while, don't you think? Even though that pastors, deacons, leaders and elders all have titles, they are still our brothers in Christ. A few scriptures to ponder over:

Luke 17:3
Pay attention to yourselves! If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him,

Matthew 18:15
If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother.

Luke 17:4 And if he sins against you seven times in the day, and turns to you seven times, saying, ‘I repent,’ you must forgive him.

Just a few scriptures for you to ponder over. God bless. I hope there can be peace between you and your pastor.
 

breno785au

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2013
6,002
764
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Australia
#10
I love my pastors, they are wise, have insight into spiritual matters and have a strong desire to see people continually growing in the Lord and realising who God has made them to be for His glory. They are nothing like the people that this thread describes.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,647
13,121
113
#11
I love my pastors, they are wise, have insight into spiritual matters and have a strong desire to see people continually growing in the Lord and realising who God has made them to be for His glory. They are nothing like the people that this thread describes.

thank God for raising up godly men!
we should pray for every pastor and every teacher and every shepherd that bears His name, that none will shame it, and that God may forgive them, and any led astray by them, and cause them to turn to Him, that He will bring them back into His presence, if they should falter :)
 
D

danschance

Guest
#12
howdy!

this is off-topic, so you can ignore it if you want... so just a question... why do you use the Yhvh for God's name? why not follow the New Testament practice of using the greek word 'lord'... not sure how to spell that greek word... something like 'kyrios' if I remember :)
I just started a thread on this topic. I see others using various hebrew names for Christ and I have long wondered what is wrong with His revealed Greek name?
 
Mar 10, 2013
329
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#13
"This is what Lord told me about my anger at pastors"

Seriously?

This is what God has told me about my anger:

Psalm 37:8 Refrain from anger and turn from wrath; do not fret—it leads only to evil.

Ecclesiastes 7:9 Do not be quickly provoked in your spirit, for anger resides in the lap of fools.

Ephesians 4:31 Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice.

Colossians 3:8 But now you must also rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips.

James 1:20 because human anger does not produce the righteousness that God desires.
 
Feb 16, 2011
2,957
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#14
I am curious what the doctrine was when protestantism began about pastors. Did they vote them in as symbolic. Did they believe God had spoken to them. Was there politics. What did they believe the process was for becoming an office of a Church that was dead for years. We have centuries of tradition. I think its good to consider what makes a pastor.
 
S

Sirk

Guest
#15
Paul was a Pharisee and was set for life before meeting Christ. He later learned the trade of tentmaker so he could pay his own way. Paul was the Mediterranean conference pastor and I don't think he had a salary and a 401k. Just sayin.
 
K

Kerry

Guest
#16
I just started a thread on this topic. I see others using various hebrew names for Christ and I have long wondered what is wrong with His revealed Greek name?
The only reason I can think of is that it makes the flesh feel good. I know something you don't know. Or in some crazy way it makes them feel closer to God or makes them feel more holy than others, you know them more holy than thou people that speak Christianese language. Not talking about tongues but, the speak old English when they get holy.

My bible say's that there is power in the name of ​Jesus.
 
Mar 8, 2014
273
3
0
#17
This is what Lord told me about my anger at pastors: Pastors start with a spirit, heart and most importantly, a desire to hear the voice of Yhvh. Then, almost without noticing, the weightiness of their responsibilities to their spiritual family (rent, attendance, utilities, missions, supplies, employees, etc.) and to their biological family (rent, utilities, cars, children, spouse, etc.) becomes their idol, confusing their ears to the voice of Lord.
Matt 13:22-23
"And the one on whom seed was sown among the thorns, this is the man who hears the word, and the worry of the world and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful.
Increasing church income to satisfy a burgeoning budget becomes the over-riding concern of pastors and elders rather than teaching the true blessings of Yhvh. Thus, holding onto the flock at all costs becomes vital to gaining mammon for the support of their desires. These idols eat away at the spirit of pastors and elders until they no longer hear the voice of Yhvh, but instead listen only to the spirit of their hearts.
Jeremiah 23:16-17
"Do not listen to what the prophets are prophesying to you; they fill you with false hopes.
They speak visions from their own minds, not from the mouth of the LORD.
They keep saying to those who despise me, 'The LORD says: You will have peace.'
And to all who follow the stubbornness of their hearts they say, 'No harm will come to you.' NIV

2 Cor 11:3
But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent's cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. NIV
Yhvh’s word warns with clarity, teaching how the adversary can slip in dressed as an angel of light.
2 Cor 11:12-15
But what I am doing I will continue to do, so that I may cut off opportunity from those who desire an opportunity to be regarded just as we are in the matter about which they are boasting. For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light . Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds.
Yet we all think ourselves impervious to the treacheries of Satan! I have seen Satan use this very ruse of mimicking an Angel of Light and was directed by my Lord in how I would discern the voice of the Spirit Of the Most High. Lord promised that no matter how far from the ‘norm’ His words in my ears seemed, He would always second them in the written Word, as His witness. (The bible is for proving the words we get from Yhvh.)
Prov 1:2-7
To know wisdom and instruction, To discern the sayings of understanding, To receive instruction in wise behavior, Righteousness, justice and equity; To give prudence to the naive, To the youth knowledge and discretion, A wise man will hear and increase in learning, And a man of understanding will acquire wise counsel, To understand a proverb and a figure, the words of the wise and their riddles. The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge
Definition of discern - transitive and intransitive verb to be able to tell the difference between two or more things
2 Tim 3:15-17
All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work. NASB
Definition of "inspired" - based on a particular motive or example
Definition of "adequate" - enough = sufficient in quality or quantity to meet a need or qualify for something or just barely enough = just barely sufficient in quality or quantity to meet a need or qualify for something.
As I came into understanding what Lord was teaching me, I could easily see how Satan had blinded the majority of people trying their best to be men of Yhvh. I could also see how man had chosen to ignore much of what the word says in an attempt to cling to his precepts.
Many present day teachings are merely manipulations of the masses by pastors, priests, rabbis, scribes and governors who are entrenched in a business paradigm: limiting their trust in Yhvh to meeting their needs and their desire to control man through the self-righteousness they developed for comfort zones. In blindness we have had those awash in the traditions of man and those who simply do not know the truth and others trapped by their desire to resist change, preaching what they think they know to be the truth.
All this must change as we prepare the way for the return of the Lord. That change begins with the first things you must understand to begin your true walk with Lord and Creator. The teaching of these have been called for since the beginning of biblical teachings and reaffirmed by the teachings of our Messiah and his disciples. The following verse is something I (as should we all) take very seriously:
Matt 5:19-20
"Whoever then "annuls" one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.
(Annuls, or breaks, translates from the Greek word: luo [loo’-o]; a primary verb; 'to loosen'’)
So it is truly said: anyone who loosens even one of the least of Yhvh's commandments will be least in heaven. Yet church leaders for the last 2000 years take away from and add to the words of Yhvh as they please with “question me not” or “you have to understand” or “touch not the anointed of the Lord” arguments to justify themselves.
Yes of course there are those such as you describe.....too many in fact and they do their congregations a great disservice.
People week after week being fed nothing but dry husks and milk, when they should be fed the meat of the word.
There are a few who are rock solid and teach boldly and with authority, but they gain notoriety and usually are attacked by the Kenites and suffer at their hands until they are so beaten down they cannot continue their ministry. But prophesy teaches this will happen time and time again. To this I can only offer that Yahveh hears our groanings and knows are discontent with the world. I'm with you buddy. Hang tough, I've got your back.
 
Dec 20, 2013
695
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#18
I will rejoice at the news of any I have failed to discover shining forth, but please pardon my doubting as I hear your claim over and over only to find it was spoken out of friendship as I have many pastors that call me friend, I understand. changes nothing but I do hope that somewhere some of you are truly trying to be more.


I understand what you are saying but you are painting with a pretty broad brush. I am not a pastor but I am close with several and what you are describing is by and large, not my experience.
 
Mar 8, 2014
273
3
0
#19
The only reason I can think of is that it makes the flesh feel good. I know something you don't know. Or in some crazy way it makes them feel closer to God or makes them feel more holy than others, you know them more holy than thou people that speak Christianese language. Not talking about tongues but, the speak old English when they get holy.

My bible say's that there is power in the name of ​Jesus.
Just as YHVH is Yahveh and not Jehovah. Yahshua is the name everyone knew him as, at the time. The greek name for Jesus has no J pronunciation, but rather the "I". It would be pronounced as eeaysoos. At the time of Christ, when in Judea, they were not speaking greek, but Hebrew, Chaldean and Amamaic.
 
Mar 8, 2014
273
3
0
#20
I am curious what the doctrine was when protestantism began about pastors. Did they vote them in as symbolic. Did they believe God had spoken to them. Was there politics. What did they believe the process was for becoming an office of a Church that was dead for years. We have centuries of tradition. I think its good to consider what makes a pastor.
In these times, having a working knowledge of God's word is the least of their concerns. A degree in sociology, psychology and a business degree gets them hired faster than being learned in God's word.