TIS THE SEASON!!!!!!!!!!

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M

miktre

Guest
#1
Is December the 25th the day Jesus was born? Is it a pagan holiday? Should we celebrate it?
Those are three very good questions that we will address. December 25 is not the day Christ was born. It was the date of His conception. The Scriptures easily document this fact as you will see.
Now clearly anyone who uses common sense can tell that this is so. Shepherds do not have their flocks out in the middle of winter. Mary would not have attempted to travel to her cousin Elizabeth in some rather cold temperatures over, I’m sure, rough terrain.
Having that said let’s document that December the 25th was Christ’s conception. This is not so much a study but rather to address the topic directly.
We are going to start in Luke with Zecharias. Many seem to forget this man was a priest and a had course twice a year to work in the temple. This is where you must start and learn when the course he served was. It was the course of Abia.
1 Chronicles 24:10

10 The seventh to Hakkoz, the eighth to Abijah,

The dates of the course was June 13-19.
So then we have Zecharias and his wife Elizabeth being full-blood Levites. A Levitical priest could only marry a Levite woman.
Luke 1:6

6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

In other words they fulfilled all the legal requirements of a Levitical Priest and his wife.
Luke 1:7

7 And they had no child, because that Elisabeth was barren, and they both were now well stricken in years.

Being childless at this time was a shame to a woman. Elizabeth was barren and could not conceive a child. It will take Divine Intervention for a miracle to take place.
Luke 1:8

8 And it came to pass, that while he executed the priest's office before God in the order of his course,

We see here that Zecharias is on duty to service the temple.
Now while he was doing this the angel Gabriel appears to him. Gabriel goes on to tell Zecharias that he shall have a son and name him John, which mean "Yahveh’s Gift". He of course being the forerunner of Christ.
Now Zecharias for some reason doubts the angels words and asks for a sign. Normal reaction I suppose, but when you have angel from God in front of you? Hmmm… Well, Gabriel becomes a bit impatient with Zecharias. He then gives him a sign all right.
Wait a minute? Are you saying Gabriel is male? That’s right. The name Gabriel means "Mighty man of God".
Luke 1:19-20

19 And the angel answering said unto him, I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God; and am sent to speak unto thee, and to shew thee these glad tidings.

20 And, behold, thou shalt be dumb, and not able to speak, until the day that these things shall be performed, because thou believest not my words, which shall be fulfilled in their season.

It seems Zecharias won’t saying a whole lot for a while.
Luke 1:23

23 And it came to pass, that, as soon as the days of his ministration were accomplished, he departed to his own house.

The course of Abia would not be finished until after June 20th. Zechariah lived about 30 miles from home. It would take a man his age at least 2 days to travel from the temple. This puts the date at June 23rd or 24th.
Luke 1:24-25

24 And after those days his wife Elisabeth conceived, and hid herself five months, saying,

25 Thus hath the Lord dealt with me in the days wherein he looked on me, to take away my reproach among men.

Elizabeth his herself 5 months. This will take us to November 24th, 5 months later.
Luke 1:26

26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,

Where are we chronologically? The sixth month from January? No. I have seen others make that mistake. We are not in June here. This is in the sixth month of Elizabeth’s pregnancy with John. On top of that the Hebrew calendar begins at the vernal equinox not January. So, we are now at December 25th. June to November being five months, plus December is six months from John’s conception.
Luke 1:27

27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.

This only states the Joseph was of the tribe of Judah.
Luke 1:28-31

28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

29 And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.

30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.

31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.

Jesus being Greek for Yahsha. It means "Salvation of Yahveh". God will bring salvation to the world through this One.
Luke 1:32-33

32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.


Luke 1:34-35

34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?

Mary was not doubting Gabriel’s message, she just didn’t understand how.

35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

This being December 25th, the conception of The Son of The Living God.
Luke 1:36

36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.

Now, here we will explain that Jesus was not of the tribe of Judah only, but also of Levi. How is that possible? It’s simple really. We already know that Elizabeth and Zecharias were full-blood Levites. If Elizabeth is Mary’s cousin, this meant that one of Mary’s parents was a Levite. It happens to be her mother. Her father naturally would be of Judah (Luke 3:33) for the scriptures say Jesus would inherit the throne of David back in verse 32. He would also be a high priest forever after the order of Melchizedek.
This also helps explain the "supposed" problems with the genealogy in Matthew and Luke. The genealogy in Matthew is obviously Joseph’s who had nothing to do with the birth of Christ other than by adoption. In Luke you will not see the word "begat" but "As was supposed" meaning by law. In other words, Mary did not have a brother, therefore Mary's father's heritage was passed on through the daughter to the son-in-law. That's why in Luke you don't see "begat" but "which was the son of..."
Hence, you have both the king line (Judah) and the priest line (Levi). Making Christ the priest of priests and king of kings, & the Lord of all Lords.
Luke 1:37-38

37 For with God nothing shall be impossible.

38 And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.

Mary is a good example of faith and trust in God.
Luke 1:39-40

39 And Mary arose in those days, and went into the hill country with haste, into a city of Juda;

40 And entered into the house of Zacharias, and saluted Elisabeth.

As soon as Mary was able she went to Elizabeth. No doubt she was excited.
Luke 1:41-44

41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:

42 And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.

43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

44 For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.

The soul and spirit that was placed in Mary's womb was so strong, that when she cried to Elizabeth with the good news knowing that Elizabeth had good news, that John being six months in the womb, leapt. So, when exactly did God begin to dwell with man?
Luke 1:45-50

45 And blessed is she that believed: for there shall be a performance of those things which were told her from the Lord.

46 And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,

47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.

48 For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.

49 For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is his name.

50 And his mercy is on them that fear him from generation to generation.

Written by Phil Najera

By posting this I am in no way saying to go celebrate christmas with pagan traditions. I am saying that this is a very special time. Its when God first manifest Himself in flesh to be with us; God with us. I don't call it it "christmas" but for the sake of communication of that day with most people. For example "I'll be at home on christmas day spending time with my family". I also wanted to mention that Tebeth, the tenth month in the Hebrew calendar, begins Dec 25. Ten denotes Ordinal perfection; Another new first.(Companion Bible; Appendix 10)

If you want to debate this, that is fine. Please bring scripture and others facts with you though please. Otherwise I won't respond.


 
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G

greatkraw

Guest
#2
Mary conceived on 25th December 1 BC (smile)
 
M

miktre

Guest
#3
I wanted to clear up where Elisabeth and Zacharias lived so we can document it being about 30 miles and a 2 day travel from the temple.

Luke 1
39And Mary arose in those days, and went into the hill country with haste, into a city of Juda;
40And entered into the house of Zacharias, and saluted Elisabeth.

Juda is the same as Juttah.
The following is from the Smith's Bible dictionary(a very useful resource;))


JUT'TAH (YUTAH, inclined). An ancient city
of Judah, allotted to the priests (Josh. xv. 55).
The residence of Zacharias, a priest, the father of
John the Baptist. It is now a large villiage, five
miles south of Hebron. (See Luke i.). It is found
on the Egyptian monuments as tah-n-nu, a fort
of the Anakin, near Hebron. Called "a city of
Juda" in Luke i. 39.





Find Jerusalem and go straight down past Hebron and you will find Juttah.


 
C

charisenexcelcis

Guest
#4
Mary conceived on 25th December 1 BC (smile)
Shouldn't it be January 1st, 1 AD? Since he was in the womb, would it be the conception date or the birthdate?
 
G

greatkraw

Guest
#5
would you believe that the fact that the british tax year ends on 5 april is all connected with december 25th

in fact I think the same applies in US - does it?
 
C

charisenexcelcis

Guest
#6
would you believe that the fact that the british tax year ends on 5 april is all connected with december 25th

in fact I think the same applies in US - does it?
April 15th-one month after the Corporate returns are do. We are all about the corporation.
 
G

greatkraw

Guest
#7
tax time in uk centuries ago was 25 march

on the basis that jesus was born on 25 dec then he ws conceived on 25 march

that became the start of the ecclesial year and eventually the tax year

at one stage britain had to lose 11 days to bring the calendar back in line with the solar cycle (I think a switch to the gregorain calendar)

no one wanted a shortened tax year - someone would get ripped off. it is 11 days from 25 march to april 5

in britain everything is tradition
 
Jan 31, 2009
2,225
11
0
#8
MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE





Lu 2:9
And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid. 10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. 11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. 12 And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger. 13 And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying, 14 Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men. 15And it came to pass, as the angels were gone away from them into heaven, the shepherds said one to another, Let us now go even unto Bethlehem, and see this thing which is come to pass, which the Lord hath made known unto us. 16And they came with haste, and found Mary, and Joseph, and the babe lying in a manger.


 
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M

miktre

Guest
#9
If you want to celebrate Christ's birth it would be better to do so on September 29.
Nevertheless have a blessed day on December 25th, the day Christ came to dwell with men.


Jesus' date of birth


Luke 1,5-13
In the time of Herod king of Judea there was a priest named Zechariah, who belonged to the priestly division of Abijah; his wife Elizabeth was also a descendant of Aaron. Both of them were upright in the sight of God, observing all the Lord's commandments and regulations blamelessly. But they had no children, because Elizabeth was barren; and they were both well on in years. Once when Zechariah's division was on duty and he was serving as priest before God, he was chosen by lot, according to the custom of the priesthood, to go into the temple of the Lord and burn incense. And when the time for the burning of incense came, all the assembled worshippers were praying outside. Then an angel of the Lord appeared to him, standing at the right side of the altar of incense. When Zechariah saw him, he was startled and was gripped with fear. But the angel said to him: "Do not be afraid, Zechariah; your prayer 32 has been heard. Your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you are to give him the name John.
Luke 1,23-24
When his time of service was completed, he returned home. After this his wife Elizabeth became pregnant and for five months remained in seclusion.
Luke 1,26-31
In the sixth month, God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth, a town in Galilee, to a virgin pledged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of David. The virgin's name was Mary. The angel went to her and said, "Greetings, you who are highly favoured! The Lord is with you." Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be. But the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, you have found favour with God. You will be with child and give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus.
Luke 1,32-36
He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob for ever; his kingdom will never end."
"How will this be," Mary asked the angel, "since I am a virgin?" The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God. Even Elizabeth your relative is going to have a child in her old age, and she who was said to be barren is in her sixth month.

1 Chronicles 24,3
With the help of Zadok a descendant of Eleazar and Ahimelech a descendant of Ithamar, David separated them into divisions for their appointed order of ministering.
1 Chronicles 24:7-19
The first lot fell to Jehoiarib, the second to Jedaiah,
the third to Harim, the fourth to Seorim,
the fifth to Malkijah, the sixth to Mijamin,
the seventh to Hakkoz, the eighth to Abijah,
the ninth to Jeshua, the tenth to Shecaniah,
the eleventh to Eliashib, the twelfth to Jakim,
the thirteenth to Huppah, the fourteenth to Jeshebeab,
the fifteenth to Bilgah, the sixteenth to Immer,
the seventeenth to Hezir, the eighteenth to Happizzez,
the nineteenth to Pethahiah, the twentieth to Jehezkel,
the twenty-first to Jakin, the twenty-second to Gamul,
the twenty-third to Delaiah and the twenty-fourth to Maaziah.
This was their appointed order of ministering when they entered the temple of the LORD, according to the regulations prescribed for them by their forefather Aaron, as the LORD, the God of Israel, had commanded him.
The bible quotes above contain the key to the question after Jesus' birthday:
Irrespective of the new-year, the month of Nissan starts the counting of the months, the feast seasons and the priestly duty periods in the temple in Jerusalem. Each priestly division had to serve for one week [2]. During the feasts of pilgrimage all 24 division had to serve in the temple.
This means, the priest Zechariah, a descendant of Abijah, could return to his wife not before the end of the feast of Pentecost.




As shown above Elisabeth did conceive John the Baptist end of the 3. month (Sivan). 6 month later (Elisabeth was in here sixth month), this means end of the 9. month (Kislev), the angel Gabriel came to Mary and she did conceive.
Jesus was born approximately 280 days later (a normal period of human gestation), which gives the seventh month (Tishri). The feast of Tabernacles is appointed for the days between the 15. - 21. Tishri.
Therefore, Jesus was borne around the feast of Tabernacles. [1]

Of course, this argumentation does not lead to an exact dating of Jesus' birthday. We need to consider even two more ambiguities:


  • [*]The priestly division of Abijah including Zechariah had to serve in the temple a second time around six month later in the year. This boils down to a second possibility for Jesus' birthday approximately six month later during the month of Nissan, perhaps in the time of the Passover feast.
    [*]If a leap year lies in the period of the events mentioned above, which means the respective year would contain a thirteens month of Adar, Jesus' birth would be one month earlier.
Nevertheless, there are more considerations pointing in a similar direction:

  • [*] For climatic reasons, it is hardly possible, that Jesus was born end of December. Example: It is too cold in Bethlehem end of December to find shepherds with there flocks of sheep out in the country during night time.
    [*] Ancient records say that December 25 is the date of conception.[3]The perfect period of human gestation is 280 days. That would make September 29 the date of birth of the Son of God, about the time of the feast of Tabernacle.
    [*] The word was made flesh, and dwelt (tabernacled) among us. John 1:14
    The feast of Tabernacles fittingly symbolises the dwelling of God among men.[3]
 
H

Harley_Angel

Guest
#10
We all know the Catholic church picked this day because it's close to Yule and winter solstice festiivals and could be used to make the transfer from pagan to Christian seem less volatile. Christmas trees are a pagan ritual even. Is it wrong to celebrate Christmas? I doubt it. Is it really Christ's birthday or conception day. I doubt it. Is it a great excuse to praise God, get people to donate to charities, and get hundreds of thousands of people who don't normally go to church to sit in on one service a year...yes. And what's not against you, is for you.
 
M

miktre

Guest
#11
Bump :D Have a blessed day!
 
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