Does water baptism save us

[resurrection33]

I have a friend that's an alcoholic but he has been water baptized so his church says he is saved and that's where grace comes in

When we resist temptation, life goes well. When we don't, life doesn't go well.

[17] "Yet your people say, `The way of the Lord is not just'; when it is their own way that is not just.
[18] When the righteous turns from his righteousness, and commits iniquity, he shall die for it.
[19] And when the wicked turns from his wickedness, and does what is lawful and right, he shall live by it.
[20] Yet you say, `The way of the Lord is not just.' O house of Israel, I will judge each of you according to his ways." Ezekiel 33:17-20 RSV

 

[SeaBass]

Water baptism is only connected to salvation under the preaching of the Gospel of the Kingdom.

Today, we do not preach the Gospel of the Kingdom. But rather, we preach the Gospel of the Grace of God.

There is and has been just one gospel.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

There is and has been just one gospel.

That is incorrect seabass. There are 4 Gospels mentioned in the New Testament.

 

[Timeline]

I have a friend that's an alcoholic but he has been water baptized so his church says he is saved and that's where grace comes in

No. That is all I have to say at this point!

 

[Illuminated]

To all that believe baptism is a must for salvation, I politely say this....

What if the plane I took to the land of Israel crashed before I was able to get to the Jordan river and be baptized? Would that mean I'd go to hell because I didn't complete the task? Of course it wouldn't! Look at the thief on the cross who had accepted Yeshua. He wasn't able to climb down from the cross and be baptized before he died on the cross. Yet Yeshua said he would be in paradise that very same day. Yeshua is the Savior. Not 99% Him and 1% us.

People are very bent on works. It's nothing new. But I respect you all. We all as a church need to be better at being in one accord. It's through the Word that this is possible.

 

[pastac]

the only way that is possible is to quit nit picking folks cant even say Jesus anymore and be correct because someone else wants to call him yeshua or whatever its embarrassing

 

[Illuminated]

That must of been a thrill to be baptized in the Jordan thanks for your input so now how do I tell my friend he is falling off a cliff when he think he is okay?

Sorry for my late response. I've had a long night.

It was a thrill and an awesome experience to be baptized there. I recommend all to go there and experience the land of the Bible. The best part of the trip for me was to stand inside the tomb where He was buried. I have pictures if anybody wants to any. Golgotha (where He was crucified) was kinda eerie. The tomb is right next to Golgotha.

As far as your friend goes, I don't know enough about him as a person therefore I shouldn't give advice. I worked with alcoholics for years as a volunteer at a community center. I helped a lotta people. Every person is a unique case. Let the Spirit guide you on what to say. From the Bible, there is lots that can be said. There is lots of scripture dealing with drunkenness. Share with him what it says. If he cares about what God says & feels, it should impact him.

 

[p_rehbein]

You show him in the word where it is a sin, If he does not listen, You take a witness. If that does not work. You pray the church confronts him (if they refuse, they are not a church of God and you need to find a different church)

Yes, and a good place in Scripture to start is:

Matthew 13:1) The same day went Jesus out of the house, and sat by the sea side.
2 .) And great multitudes were gathered together unto him, so that he went into a ship, and sat; and the whole multitude stood on the shore.
3 .) And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow;
4 .) And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:
5 .) Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:
6 .) And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
7 .) And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them:
8 .) But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.
9 .) Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Truth is, this parable speaks of many today....................

 

[mailmandan]

1 Pet 3:21 ...baptism doth also now save us....

1 Peter 3:21 tells us that baptism now saves you, yet when Peter uses this phrase he continues in the same sentence to explain exactly what he means by it. He says that baptism now saves you-not the removal of dirt from the flesh (that is, not as an outward, physical act which washes dirt from the body--that is not the part which saves you), "but an appeal to God for a good conscience" (that is, as an inward, spiritual transaction between God and the individual, a transaction that is symbolized by the outward ceremony of water baptism). We could paraphrase Peter's statement by saying, "Baptism now saves you--not the outward physical ceremony of baptism but the inward spiritual reality which baptism represents." By saying, "not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience - through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, Peter guards against saving power to the physical ceremony itself. So in 1 Peter 3:21; it's not the water itself that saves us, but the "appeal to God for good conscience". Just as the eight people in the ark were "saved THROUGH water" as they were IN THE ARK. They were not literally saved "by" the water. Hebrews 11:7 is clear on this point (..built an ark for the SAVING of his household). NOTE: The context reveals that ONLY the righteous (Noah and his family) were DRY and therefore SAFE. In contrast, ONLY THE WICKED IN NOAH'S DAY CAME IN CONTACT WITH THE WATER AND THEY ALL PERISHED.

 

[Jabberjaw]

That is incorrect seabass. There are 4 Gospels mentioned in the New Testament.

Galatians 1:8 (NKJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.


It is in the 3rd person singular, there is only one Gospel, but more than once account of it.

 

[Jabberjaw]

To all that believe baptism is a must for salvation, I politely say this....

What if the plane I took to the land of Israel crashed before I was able to get to the Jordan river and be baptized? Would that mean I'd go to hell because I didn't complete the task?

How many bodies of water did you fly over that you could have been baptized in? how many did you leave from your origination? how many chances did you leave behind? where in the Bible does it say you must be baptized in the Jordan?

Of course it wouldn't! Look at the thief on the cross who had accepted Yeshua. He wasn't able to climb down from the cross and be baptized before he died on the cross. Yet Yeshua said he would be in paradise that very same day. Yeshua is the Savior. Not 99% Him and 1% us.

Again and again, the "thief on the cross" is not a NT example, Christ was still alive, He could by His word save anyone He wanted, period... but once the testator died, Christ is bound by His own laws and would not have been able to save anyone "by speaking the words to them" without being "unjust".

Hebrews 9:16-17 (NKJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. [SUP]17 [/SUP]For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives.

People are very bent on works. It's nothing new. But I respect you all. We all as a church need to be better at being in one accord. It's through the Word that this is possible.

when you say "We all as a church need to be better at being in one accord" is absolutely correct, but can only be possible if people would realize that its only (and Ill quote you again) "through the Word that this is possible" and if people would throw away their man made manuals, creeds, catechisms and confessions of faith etc... and use "the Word of God" we could in one accord see baptism is a command, that obeying commands are not works of merit, but works of obedience, therefore like the obedience of Abraham offering Isac, and Naaman dipping 7 times in the Jordan were "righteous saving works of obedience" and not of merit.

 

[john832]

Water baptism is a prerequisite to salvation. One must be water baptized, but that does not save us.

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

Act 2:38 Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Yet, we are saved by Christ's life...

Rom 5:10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

The mechanisms involved are grace and faith...

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

by grace and through the faith of God, Christ's life (His resurrection) saves us.

*Edit*

Let me add that the seal we receive is the Holy Spirit to salvation.

Eph 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Yet, one cannot continue wilfully in sin...

Heb 10:26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 Anyone who has rejected Moses' law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
Heb 10:29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?

So, no matter what the board of deacons say, the pastor says or the grand imperial wizard says, the above is what the Word of God says.

 

[gleener]

my wife was an alcoholic but not any more Jesus healed her when she gave her life to Him 2nd cor 5 - 17 therefor if anyone is in Christ he is anew creation the old has passed away behold all things become new Jesus does not heal you then keep you an alcoholic

 

[okeyxyz]

Water baptism is not even important. It was practiced in bible times because the old cultures were deeply steeped in symbolisms, a carry-over from the laws of Moses/old testament. The important thing in christianity is the understanding(re-interpretations) of the true significance of these symbolisms(shadows) and living according to the new revelations.

 

[Jabberjaw]

Water baptism is not even important. It was practiced in bible times because the old cultures were deeply steeped in symbolisms, a carry-over from the laws of Moses/old testament.

Okay, we got your opinion, now how about scripture to back that all up?

 

[gleener]

Sorry for my late response. I've had a long night.

It was a thrill and an awesome experience to be baptized there. I recommend all to go there and experience the land of the Bible. The best part of the trip for me was to stand inside the tomb where He was buried. I have pictures if anybody wants to any. Golgotha (where He was crucified) was kinda eerie. The tomb is right next to Golgotha.

As far as your friend goes, I don't know enough about him as a person therefore I shouldn't give advice. I worked with alcoholics for years as a volunteer at a community center. I helped a lotta people. Every person is a unique case. Let the Spirit guide you on what to say. From the Bible, there is lots that can be said. There is lots of scripture dealing with drunkenness. Share with him what it says. If he cares about what God says & feels, it should impact him.

that's okay for the late response we have eternity thanks be to our Lord and Savior

 

[ChosenbyHim]

Galatians 1:8 (NKJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.


It is in the 3rd person singular, there is only one Gospel, but more than once account of it.

There is only one Gospel for today. In the Church Age we only preach the Gospel of the Grace of God (Acts 20:24).

But in respect to the different dispensations, there are a total of four Gospels that are mentioned in the New Testament.

The Gospel of the Kingdom (Matt. 24:14).

The Gospel of the Grace of God (Acts 20:24)

The everlasting Gospel (Rev. 14:6)

And the counterfeit Gospel; which Paul refers to as 'another gospel' (Gal. 1:6-9).

 

[saved1975]

Baptism saves, Mk 16:16; Acts 2:28; 1 Pet 3:21, but one who is living in sin cannot be baptized and continue to live in sin and expect to be saved. Repentance has to take place before one is baptized.

Jesus came to save sinners, So if baptism saves, then a sinner can be baptised to save them.
But water baptism doesn't save.
The Greek Bible texts says, The emphasis for, "Saved", in Mk 16: 16, Is on the "Believing", Not baptism.
The Greek emphasis for, "Remission of sins", In Acts 2: 38, Is on, "Repenting", Not baptism.
1 Pet 3: 21 says baptism is only a figure, a type of salvation.

 

[gleener]

Jesus came to save sinners, So if baptism saves, then a sinner can be baptised to save them.
But water baptism doesn't save.
The Greek Bible texts says, The emphasis for, "Saved", in Mk 16: 16, Is on the "Believing", Not baptism.
The Greek emphasis for, "Remission of sins", In Acts 2: 38, Is on, "Repenting", Not baptism.
1 Pet 3: 21 says baptism is only a figure, a type of salvation.

nice to see people understanding the emphasis of scripture well said thru scripture

 

[SeaBass]

That is incorrect seabass. There are 4 Gospels mentioned in the New Testament.

No, there is just one gospel. It may be called by different phrases but there is just one gospel, one faith, that is to be preached to all the world. There is not 'another' gospel, Gal 1:6,7.