Does water baptism save us

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Mar 12, 2014
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#41
To all that believe baptism is a must for salvation, I politely say this....

What if the plane I took to the land of Israel crashed before I was able to get to the Jordan river and be baptized? Would that mean I'd go to hell because I didn't complete the task? Of course it wouldn't! Look at the thief on the cross who had accepted Yeshua. He wasn't able to climb down from the cross and be baptized before he died on the cross. Yet Yeshua said he would be in paradise that very same day. Yeshua is the Savior. Not 99% Him and 1% us.

People are very bent on works. It's nothing new. But I respect you all. We all as a church need to be better at being in one accord. It's through the Word that this is possible. :)
An atheist was on a plane that was moments away from crashing. He begins to think there there is a "higher power" and life after death, but dies in the crash before knowing who or what to believe. He would have believed in Christ if he had just more time. So he can be saved in his unbelief. >>> If one scenario can supposedly nullify the bible's teaching on the necessity of water baptism then another scenario can nullify the bible's teaching on the necessity of faith. Moral of story: scenarios do not change the truth of God's word.


The thief on the cross is not an example of NT salvation. Also, as far as we know the thief may have been one of those of Mk 1:5 that was baptized of John but later fell into a life of crime.



1 Pet 3:21 "...baptism doth also now save us...."
 
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ChosenbyHim

Senior Member
Sep 19, 2011
3,343
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#42
No, there is just one gospel.
Wrong again.

No, there is not just one Gospel. There are four mentioned in the New Testament.

Now in regards to this dispensation which we call the Church Age, yes there is only Gospel that we are to preach today and that is Paul's Gospel, which is the Gospel of the Death, Burial, and Resurrection (1 Cor. 15:1-6). This is the Gospel which was commited unto Paul by revelation from the Lord Jesus Christ (Gal. 1:11-12).

However though, once the Rapture of the Body of Christ happens, the Church Age ends. And a new Dispensation and Administration begins.

The Gospel that will be preached in the time of Jacob's trouble is the Gospel of the Kingdom. And this Gospel of the Kingdom will be preached in all the world by the 144,000 sealed Jews from the twelve tribes. The Gospel of the Kingdom will be preached for a witness to all nations (Matt. 24:14) and then the end (end of the tribulation) will come. Just as the Lord Jesus Christ prophesied.


It may be called by different phrases but there is just one gospel, one faith, that is to be preached to all the world.
Today for the Church Age, there is only One Gospel.

But in resprect to the different dispensations, there are four different Gospels mentioned in the New Testament.



There is not 'another' gospel, Gal 1:6,7.
Well today, there is not another Gospel.

But there will be another Gospel preached in the time of Jacob's trouble. It is called the 'everlasting Gospel' and it is preached by an Angel (Rev. 14:6).
 
Feb 21, 2012
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#43
Water baptism is a prerequisite to salvation. One must be water baptized, but that does not save us.

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

Act 2:38 Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

<snip>
Water baptism is NOT a prerequisite to salvation. It is not required nor necessary as a prior condition to salvation. (Acts 10) 'born of water' is NOT water baptism - but relates to your first birth as in v6 - That which is born of the flesh is flesh; [born of water] and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

to "be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ" is to be baptized in holy spirit - the holy spirit penetrates and permeates the entire person. "Born again" shows that God is the Father of the Christian and when a person is saved something is actually "born." "Born again" is not just a metaphor; it describes a spiritual reality. God the Father puts his nature inside each saved person via spiritual birth. The "child" of God gets the divine nature of the Father. Christians are "holy", not because of their behavior but because of their holy spiritual nature.
 
L

Linda70

Guest
#44
What Is the Meaning of Baptism?

Water baptism is a picture and public testimony of spiritual realities. It is called a "figure" in 1 Peter 3:21.

(1) Baptism is a public testimony of repentance and faith in Christ (Acts 8:34-38; 16:30-34; 2:37-38).

(2) Baptism identifies one with Christ and depicts salvation-dying with Christ and being raised to eternal life with Him (Romans 6:3-6). Baptism shows the Gospel-the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ

What Is the Purpose of Baptism?

It is not for salvation, but is a public testimony of faith in Christ and a picture of the gospel. To interpret the Bible properly, the Bible teacher must "compare spiritual things with spiritual" (1 Corinthians 2:13). The false teacher, though, takes verses out of context and uses isolated verses to overthrow the clear teaching of the Bible as a whole. He puts one definition on a Bible word and then forces that definition into all passages, regardless of the context. That is what those do who teach that baptism is a part of salvation

Believer's Baptism is a church ordinance. Baptismal regeneration is a false teaching.

(Source: Way of Life Encyclopedia: BAPTISM - IMMERSION)
 
S

Sirk

Guest
#45
No but the life raft floating on the ocean of sin you are drowning in does. Seriously tho....baptism in the name of the father son and Holy Spirit is a public expression of Jesus lordship over your life. The old man goes under and the new man emerges.
 
Mar 12, 2014
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#46
1 Peter 3:21 tells us that baptism now saves you, yet when Peter uses this phrase he continues in the same sentence to explain exactly what he means by it. He says that baptism now saves you-not the removal of dirt from the flesh (that is, not as an outward, physical act which washes dirt from the body--that is not the part which saves you), "but an appeal to God for a good conscience" (that is, as an inward, spiritual transaction between God and the individual, a transaction that is symbolized by the outward ceremony of water baptism). We could paraphrase Peter's statement by saying, "Baptism now saves you--not the outward physical ceremony of baptism but the inward spiritual reality which baptism represents." By saying, "not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience - through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, Peter guards against saving power to the physical ceremony itself. So in 1 Peter 3:21; it's not the water itself that saves us, but the "appeal to God for good conscience". Just as the eight people in the ark were "saved THROUGH water" as they were IN THE ARK. They were not literally saved "by" the water. Hebrews 11:7 is clear on this point (..built an ark for the SAVING of his household). NOTE: The context reveals that ONLY the righteous (Noah and his family) were DRY and therefore SAFE. In contrast, ONLY THE WICKED IN NOAH'S DAY CAME IN CONTACT WITH THE WATER AND THEY ALL PERISHED.
In Acts 2:38 Peter said to be baptized for remission of sins (salvation). In 1 Pet 3:21 Peter said baptism saves, so both verses speak of the one baptism of Eph 4:5 that saves, and they are both the human administered water baptism of the great commission.


OT type: saved by water
NT antitype: saved by water

Peter said 8 souls saved by/through water. Peter did NOT say 8 souls saved in an ark, as many change verse 20 to say.

The NT antitype (antitupos) is a mirror reflection of the OT type: they were saved by water > we are saved by water. So it cannot some "spirit baptism" under consideration for the world was not flooded by spirit, but by literal water. Again, the NT antitype: water is a mirror reflection of the OT type; water. No spirit here. No ark here.

After Peter says baptism saves he say what baptism is NOT for, it is "not the putting away of the filth of the flesh". Obviously Peter is talking about water baptism, water being used to clean the filth of the flesh.


Peter then says baptism is "the answer of a good conscience toward God". In water baptism, sins are remitted where one can have a good conscience toward God. In Acts 2, Peter convicted his Jewish listeners of the sin of curcifying the Christ. Their guilty conscience lead them to ask Peter what shall they do. The "answer" Peter gave them for their guilty conscience of sin was to repent and be baptized for the remission of sins.....answer > be baptized., their appeal to God for a good conscience would come through water baptism.

Coffman Commentary points out:

It was the water of the flood that separated Noah from the disobedient generation that perished; and it is the water of Christian baptism that separates between the saved of today and the disobedient who perish.

Further reading on 1 Pet 3:21 for those interested:

https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/263-please-explain-1-peter-3-21

From above link:

The Greek term that is translated “answer” in 1 Peter 3:21 is eperotema. It basically means a request, or an appeal (see ASV footnote). It is found only in this passage in the New Testament, but it is employed in other sources in Greek literature.
J. H. Thayer gives the term this sense: “which (baptism) now saves us [you] not because in receiving it we [ye] have put away the filth of the flesh, but because we [ye] have earnestly sought a conscience reconciled to God” (1958, 230).
Or note the preferred rendition of Arndt and Gingrich: baptism is “an appeal to God for a clear conscience” (1967, 285).
In Kittel’s Theological Dictionary, the rendition is this: “Baptism does not confer physical cleansing but saves as a request for forgiveness” (1972, 262).
Even Charles B. Williams, a respected Baptist scholar, in his translation of the New Testament, yielded this phrase in this fashion: baptism is “the craving for a clear conscience toward God” (1966, 520).
These renditions indicate, of course, that the good conscience follows the immersion.
 
Mar 12, 2014
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#47
Jesus came to save sinners, So if baptism saves, then a sinner can be baptised to save them.
But water baptism doesn't save.
The Greek Bible texts says, The emphasis for, "Saved", in Mk 16: 16, Is on the "Believing", Not baptism.
The Greek emphasis for, "Remission of sins", In Acts 2: 38, Is on, "Repenting", Not baptism.
1 Pet 3: 21 says baptism is only a figure, a type of salvation.
Water baptism saves becasue God has chosen water baptism as the means by which he saves:

In Rev 1:5 John said Christ "washed us from our sins in his own blood"

Christ's blood that washes away sins was shed in His death, Jn 19:34

So we must have a way into Christ's death to access that shed blood, and water baptism is what puts one into Christ's death..."Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:" Rom 6:3-5.


Mk 16:16 has two subjects; salvation and condemnation.

There are two requiremnts for salvation: belief and baptism
There is one requirement for condmenation: unbelief

One has nothing to do with the other. So if one desires to be saved he must believe and be baptized.

In Acts 2:38 Peter commanded BOTH repentance and baptism, not just repentance. And it is not until one is baptized are his sins remitted.


1 Pet 3:21 the OT type is saved by water, The NT antitype is saved by water baptism. THe word translated "atitype" does not mean that baptism is only a symbol, but the word means a mirror reflection.
 
Mar 12, 2014
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#48
Wrong again.

No, there is not just one Gospel. There are four mentioned in the New Testament.

Now in regards to this dispensation which we call the Church Age, yes there is only Gospel that we are to preach today and that is Paul's Gospel, which is the Gospel of the Death, Burial, and Resurrection (1 Cor. 15:1-6). This is the Gospel which was commited unto Paul by revelation from the Lord Jesus Christ (Gal. 1:11-12).

However though, once the Rapture of the Body of Christ happens, the Church Age ends. And a new Dispensation and Administration begins.

The Gospel that will be preached in the time of Jacob's trouble is the Gospel of the Kingdom. And this Gospel of the Kingdom will be preached in all the world by the 144,000 sealed Jews from the twelve tribes. The Gospel of the Kingdom will be preached for a witness to all nations (Matt. 24:14) and then the end (end of the tribulation) will come. Just as the Lord Jesus Christ prophesied.




Today for the Church Age, there is only One Gospel.

But in resprect to the different dispensations, there are four different Gospels mentioned in the New Testament.





Well today, there is not another Gospel.

But there will be another Gospel preached in the time of Jacob's trouble. It is called the 'everlasting Gospel' and it is preached by an Angel (Rev. 14:6).
The NT only speaks of one gospel, one faith. Paul preached the same gospel as Peter and the other apostles. If Paul preached anything different from Peter, then Paul was preaching a false gospel. There was not 'another' gospel when Paul said it in Gal 1 and there is still not another gospel today or ever will be another gospel.

We are in the last days now, there are no more dispensations so if one is not saved in this Christian dispensation he will be lost. The 144,000 is figurative not literal.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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#49
Water baptism is NOT a prerequisite to salvation. It is not required nor necessary as a prior condition to salvation. (Acts 10) 'born of water' is NOT water baptism - but relates to your first birth as in v6 - That which is born of the flesh is flesh; [born of water] and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

to "be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ" is to be baptized in holy spirit - the holy spirit penetrates and permeates the entire person. "Born again" shows that God is the Father of the Christian and when a person is saved something is actually "born." "Born again" is not just a metaphor; it describes a spiritual reality. God the Father puts his nature inside each saved person via spiritual birth. The "child" of God gets the divine nature of the Father. Christians are "holy", not because of their behavior but because of their holy spiritual nature.
Aw c'mon, water doesn't mean water?
 
Mar 12, 2014
6,433
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#50
Water baptism is NOT a prerequisite to salvation. It is not required nor necessary as a prior condition to salvation. (Acts 10) 'born of water' is NOT water baptism - but relates to your first birth as in v6 - That which is born of the flesh is flesh; [born of water] and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

to "be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ" is to be baptized in holy spirit - the holy spirit penetrates and permeates the entire person. "Born again" shows that God is the Father of the Christian and when a person is saved something is actually "born." "Born again" is not just a metaphor; it describes a spiritual reality. God the Father puts his nature inside each saved person via spiritual birth. The "child" of God gets the divine nature of the Father. Christians are "holy", not because of their behavior but because of their holy spiritual nature.
Acts 10:47,48 "Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days."

1) God purpose was for salvation to also go to the Gentiles and that savlation came in the form of water baptism and any Jew that forbid the Gentiles from being water baptized (saved) would be going against the will of God.,,cf Acts 11:17:

Peter’s question, “Who was I that I could withstand God?” (NKJV) justified his actions.
A. “Withstand” = “to stand against, to oppose or resist, with either physical or moral force.”
B. G2967 koluo:
“to prevent, to stop (by word or force), stand against, oppose, withstand.”
C. To “stand in God’s way” (NASB) would have been to “oppose or stand against” God!
D. Peter was saying, “What could I do other than assist the Gentiles in obeying, since it was God’s will that they be permitted to do so?” (He couldn’t “prevent” God from His will!)
IV. Peter would not “withstand” (oppose) God, but yet so many people in the world do!
[Prepared by Nathan L Morrison]



2) This baptism "in the name of the Lord" of Acts 10:47,48 is water baptism as it was in Acts 2:38.
 
Feb 21, 2014
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#51
Acts 10:47,48 "Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days."

1) God purpose was for salvation to also go to the Gentiles and that savlation came in the form of water baptism and any Jew that forbid the Gentiles from being water baptized (saved) would be going against the will of God.,,cf Acts 11:17:

Peter’s question, “Who was I that I could withstand God?” (NKJV) justified his actions.
A. “Withstand” = “to stand against, to oppose or resist, with either physical or moral force.”
B. G2967 koluo:
“to prevent, to stop (by word or force), stand against, oppose, withstand.”
C. To “stand in God’s way” (NASB) would have been to “oppose or stand against” God!
D. Peter was saying, “What could I do other than assist the Gentiles in obeying, since it was God’s will that they be permitted to do so?” (He couldn’t “prevent” God from His will!)
IV. Peter would not “withstand” (oppose) God, but yet so many people in the world do!
[Prepared by Nathan L Morrison]



2) This baptism "in the name of the Lord" of Acts 10:47,48 is water baptism as it was in Acts 2:38.
It is a public acknowledgement of a person's faith; and the Gospel in Acts spread to Gentiles also.

But the water itself did not save; it is a symbol.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#52
boy if water baptism is all it takes, preachers need to put down their bibles and pick up a firehose!
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#53
Galatians 1:8 (NKJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.

.
You should apply this to your works for or to keep salvation doctrine!
 

Apostol2013

Senior Member
Jan 27, 2013
2,105
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#54
No. We are saved by grace through faith, that which is a gift of God --> Ephesians 2:8-9
it is part of our faith it is necesary like every other commandment by our Lord or it would of not been said at all
 
Mar 12, 2014
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#55
Aw c'mon, water doesn't mean water?
If water cannot mean water, then spirit does not mean spirit...at least for consistencies sake.

Wonder why some have no problem with spirit meaning spirit but cannot in any way let water mean water? Bias maybe?
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#56
boy if water baptism is all it takes, preachers need to put down their bibles and pick up a firehose!
I agree and will add.....

If baptism is so important for salvation then why would a man who wrote almost half of the N.T. say...

I thank GOD I BAPTIZED NONE OF YOU EXCEPT.........
 
Feb 21, 2014
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#57
If water cannot mean water, then spirit does not mean spirit...at least for consistencies sake.

Wonder why some have no problem with spirit meaning spirit but cannot in any way let water mean water? Bias maybe?
I don't see water saving in Acts 10.47-48. Not bias to say so; it's plainly not the case.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#58
If water cannot mean water, then spirit does not mean spirit...at least for consistencies sake.

Wonder why some have no problem with spirit meaning spirit but cannot in any way let water mean water? Bias maybe?
because:

Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.
(John 4:10)

however i can't think of a scripture where Christ used "spirit" as a metaphor.
i wouldn't say "don't get baptized" -- i encourage it! we're flatly told to be baptized!
but baptism of water isn't where we place our faith: that is in Christ, from whom we receive true baptism unto salvation.

there is only one way into the Kingdom: Jesus.
why ascribe that glory to anything else? a bathtub is not the mediator between God and men.
 
Mar 12, 2014
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#59
It is a public acknowledgement of a person's faith; and the Gospel in Acts spread to Gentiles also.

But the water itself did not save; it is a symbol.
God saves, but God uses water baptism as the means by which He saves, Christ's blood is accessed in water baptism, so that is why Peter could say water baptism doth also now save us.