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S
Water baptism is a ceremony in which the believer declares allegiance to, and identification with, Jesus Christ. The change has already occurred in the person's life....regeneration, repentance, and faith.
All you get when you baptize an unbeliever is a wet unbeliever.
With regards to your friend, he could still be a believer and struggling with alcoholism as a sin. There's no way of knowing for sure. You should encourage him rather than discourage him.
Regards,
Robert
All you get when you baptize an unbeliever is a wet unbeliever.
With regards to your friend, he could still be a believer and struggling with alcoholism as a sin. There's no way of knowing for sure. You should encourage him rather than discourage him.
Regards,
Robert
A
As God said:
Isaiah 55:8
8 | For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith Jehovah.
if you want to know the truth about your friend, start to know what is the thought of God in the bible
Mark 12:24
24 | Jesus said unto them, Is it not for this cause that ye err, that ye know not the scriptures, nor the power of God?
unless, you will never know like this "church"
who can be baptized?
Matthew 28:19
19 | Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit:
someone who is a disciple of Christ, someone who is aware and decided and can choose his way, (not a child)...
the baptized man should not sin no more, because he will become a son of God,begotten of God, see John 3:5
and even he will hate sin:
Ezekiel 20:43
43 | And there shall ye remember your ways, and all your doings, wherein ye have polluted yourselves; and ye shall loathe yourselves in your own sight for all your evils that ye have committed.
1John 3:9
9 | Whosoever is begotten of God doeth no sin, because his seed abideth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is begotten of God.
So whoever feels that it is yet hard to not sin,or it is difficult to do without the world and its lust, it is better to this person to find where is the true way to be free
John 8:36
36 | If therefore the Son shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
if you say "this way is Jesus", and after?...Why do you continu to do sin????perhaps you are not in this way because you are in the way of sin and so a bondservant of sin as the Scripture says:
John 8:34
34 | Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Every one that committeth sin is the bondservant of sin.
if you sin before being baptized, and you continu to sin, the baptism made to you is not the baptism as the Bible said
because if the true baptism set us free, the false set a curse to you
John 5:14
14 | Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing befall thee.
Isaiah 55:8
8 | For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith Jehovah.
if you want to know the truth about your friend, start to know what is the thought of God in the bible
Mark 12:24
24 | Jesus said unto them, Is it not for this cause that ye err, that ye know not the scriptures, nor the power of God?
unless, you will never know like this "church"
who can be baptized?
Matthew 28:19
19 | Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit:
someone who is a disciple of Christ, someone who is aware and decided and can choose his way, (not a child)...
the baptized man should not sin no more, because he will become a son of God,begotten of God, see John 3:5
and even he will hate sin:
Ezekiel 20:43
43 | And there shall ye remember your ways, and all your doings, wherein ye have polluted yourselves; and ye shall loathe yourselves in your own sight for all your evils that ye have committed.
1John 3:9
9 | Whosoever is begotten of God doeth no sin, because his seed abideth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is begotten of God.
So whoever feels that it is yet hard to not sin,or it is difficult to do without the world and its lust, it is better to this person to find where is the true way to be free
John 8:36
36 | If therefore the Son shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
if you say "this way is Jesus", and after?...Why do you continu to do sin????perhaps you are not in this way because you are in the way of sin and so a bondservant of sin as the Scripture says:
John 8:34
34 | Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Every one that committeth sin is the bondservant of sin.
if you sin before being baptized, and you continu to sin, the baptism made to you is not the baptism as the Bible said
because if the true baptism set us free, the false set a curse to you
John 5:14
14 | Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing befall thee.
Water baptism is a cerimoinal law only used in carnal ordinances. Its roots are in the Old testament in respect to when a new priest enter the ministry. Because we are a kingdom of priest it is still a valid ceremonial law that has nothing to do with getting saved but again has everything to do with the desire of a believer to enter the ministry as a kingdom of priest . In that sense we are typified as if we came from the tribe of Levi..offering spiritual sacrifices, the fruit of our lips, as we bring the gospel into the world and pray that God would apply it to the heart...
Baptized into Christ does not mean water baptized into the body of Christ. We are Spirit baptized (not water baptized) into the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:13). In what sense are believers water baptized into Christ? In the same sense that the Israelites were "baptized into Moses" in 1 Corinthians 10:2. Now were the Israelites literally water baptized into the body of Moses? Of course not, but they were in regards to identification, just as into His death or in relation to his death in Romans 6, which relation Paul proceeds to explain by the symbolism of the ordinance.
In regards to contacting the blood of Christ. "Through His blood" (Colossians 1:14) is a reference not limited to the fluid as if the blood has saving properties in it's chemistry and we literally contact it in the waters of baptism, but is an expression pointing to the totality of Christ's atoning work as a sacrifice for sin. The word "cross" is used similarly to refer to the whole atoning work of Christ on the cross (1 Corinthians 1:18; Galatians 6:12,14; Ephesians 2:16). I understand you needing to accommodate your Campbellism theories but this is ridiculous!
Acts 10:43 - Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins. BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:47).
Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.
Romans 3:24 - Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, throughthe forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
In regards to contacting the blood of Christ. "Through His blood" (Colossians 1:14) is a reference not limited to the fluid as if the blood has saving properties in it's chemistry and we literally contact it in the waters of baptism, but is an expression pointing to the totality of Christ's atoning work as a sacrifice for sin. The word "cross" is used similarly to refer to the whole atoning work of Christ on the cross (1 Corinthians 1:18; Galatians 6:12,14; Ephesians 2:16). I understand you needing to accommodate your Campbellism theories but this is ridiculous!
Acts 10:43 - Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins. BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:47).
Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.
Romans 3:24 - Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, throughthe forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
wow, 82 pages!?!?!
Well I will add my 2 cents, but I doubt it will make any difference and doubt that I will sway anyone off their positions.
saved by faith - yes
saved by grace - yes
need to repent of sin -yes
need to confess Jesus as Lord
need to be Baptized - yes
Why would anyone ignore the very plain scriptures that say that, especially when Jesus himself said it very plainly (mat 28:19, mark 16:16)
If Jesus says to do it, then I'm going to try and obey, its that simple!! If he tells me to put peanut butter on my head and stand on one foot for 2 hours, then I'm at least going to try!! Even if baptism is not necessary, its still very plainly commanded, so the safe way to go is to simply do what it says!!
being baptized is not a work, it is simply how God delivers entry into the body of Christ (Romans 6:3), I will give an illustration of something that I heard that made sense to me.
I tell you that I'm going to give you a million dollars as a gift, you say wow great, when and how can I pick that up? I say I will meet you at the bank at the corner of main and elm street and I will give you the money.
You would not think you earned the million dollars by driving to the bank would you? But you would also understand that driving to the bank is the only way that I will hand you your gift.
Well I will add my 2 cents, but I doubt it will make any difference and doubt that I will sway anyone off their positions.
saved by faith - yes
saved by grace - yes
need to repent of sin -yes
need to confess Jesus as Lord
need to be Baptized - yes
Why would anyone ignore the very plain scriptures that say that, especially when Jesus himself said it very plainly (mat 28:19, mark 16:16)
If Jesus says to do it, then I'm going to try and obey, its that simple!! If he tells me to put peanut butter on my head and stand on one foot for 2 hours, then I'm at least going to try!! Even if baptism is not necessary, its still very plainly commanded, so the safe way to go is to simply do what it says!!
being baptized is not a work, it is simply how God delivers entry into the body of Christ (Romans 6:3), I will give an illustration of something that I heard that made sense to me.
I tell you that I'm going to give you a million dollars as a gift, you say wow great, when and how can I pick that up? I say I will meet you at the bank at the corner of main and elm street and I will give you the money.
You would not think you earned the million dollars by driving to the bank would you? But you would also understand that driving to the bank is the only way that I will hand you your gift.
I look at those verses you offered a little differently. I think they confirm we walk by faith the unseen.
To be baptized is to be cleansed by the pure living water of the word, the gospel of our salvation.
I believe it is showing no believing(no faith), no cleansing.Cleaning is a integral part of believing , as the Holy Spirit gives us the hearing of faith we can believe.
As they go out into the world to preach the gospel we understand we are figuratively as a parable baptizing them in the authority of the word of God, represented by the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:The whole God head
Water baptism is an old testament ceremonial action used when a new priest enters the ministry .It can be applied in the same way today seeing we are typified as a kingdom of priests as ambassadors from a foreign land. This is after the order of Arron a Levite from the tribe of Levi. and is why Jesus from the tribe of Judah could not baptize until John a Levite performed the ceremony, officially making Jesus an officiator as our high priest .
Mat 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
This was at the beginning of His ministry as our scapegoat to be tried, having been cerimoinal baptized using water to symbolize the word of God He was sent..
Leviticus 16:10 But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the LORD, to make an atonement with him, and to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness.
Leviticus 16:26 And he that let go the goat for the scapegoat shall wash his clothes, and bathe his flesh in water, and afterward come into the camp.
I think the baptism as a ceremonial purifying rite shows Christ clothed in His righteous prepared to minister as our High Priest
Joh 3:25 Then there arose a question between some of John's disciples and the Jews about purifying.
To be baptized is to be cleansed by the pure living water of the word, the gospel of our salvation.
I believe it is showing no believing(no faith), no cleansing.Cleaning is a integral part of believing , as the Holy Spirit gives us the hearing of faith we can believe.
As they go out into the world to preach the gospel we understand we are figuratively as a parable baptizing them in the authority of the word of God, represented by the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:The whole God head
Water baptism is an old testament ceremonial action used when a new priest enters the ministry .It can be applied in the same way today seeing we are typified as a kingdom of priests as ambassadors from a foreign land. This is after the order of Arron a Levite from the tribe of Levi. and is why Jesus from the tribe of Judah could not baptize until John a Levite performed the ceremony, officially making Jesus an officiator as our high priest .
Mat 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
This was at the beginning of His ministry as our scapegoat to be tried, having been cerimoinal baptized using water to symbolize the word of God He was sent..
Leviticus 16:10 But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the LORD, to make an atonement with him, and to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness.
Leviticus 16:26 And he that let go the goat for the scapegoat shall wash his clothes, and bathe his flesh in water, and afterward come into the camp.
I think the baptism as a ceremonial purifying rite shows Christ clothed in His righteous prepared to minister as our High Priest
Joh 3:25 Then there arose a question between some of John's disciples and the Jews about purifying.
like I said, I doubt that I will sway anyone from their positions, but I simply do what it says.. very easy, if it says to be baptized then I do, end of story, no reason to fight against the words, if it has another meaning, then ohh well I did it the safe way.
I certainly know that there is no question that if a person is baptized then they are not being disobedient to God no matter how a person looks at it, where if a person were not to be baptized, then there is the possibility that they are obeying God. I choose to simply do what it says and not gamble in such a way. I am certainly not saying that I'm right and anyone else is wrong, I am simply saying that I look at scripture in as simple and straight forward way as possible, and If Jesus himself says to do something, then I am not one to question him, or to say that when he said to be baptized that he really meant something else.
I certainly know that there is no question that if a person is baptized then they are not being disobedient to God no matter how a person looks at it, where if a person were not to be baptized, then there is the possibility that they are obeying God. I choose to simply do what it says and not gamble in such a way. I am certainly not saying that I'm right and anyone else is wrong, I am simply saying that I look at scripture in as simple and straight forward way as possible, and If Jesus himself says to do something, then I am not one to question him, or to say that when he said to be baptized that he really meant something else.
Baptism according to scripture is a very important sacrament, however, Paul absolutely clears up the matter by completely removing baptism from the equation of Salvation. He plainly states that Jesus Christ said baptism was not a part of the Gospel, look at 1 Cor. 1:17, For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: This verse clearly removes baptism from the gospel. He said that Christ sent him, not to baptize but preach the gospel. If baptism was required to be saved would Paul have minimized it? Read 1 Cor. 1:14 I think God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius. WOW! did Paul just lose his concern for lost people? Or, maybe it clears the water (NPI) about baptism be a part of Salvation. We must be concerned about obeying the commands of Christ, but we must also be careful to always rightly divide the word of God. Especially concerning our salvation. This passage of scripture alone should clear-up any question's about adding to the gospel of Christ. I think we should be very careful. God has done all the work for our salvation, our part is to believe it, turn from our sin, and be obedient. The first command of a Christian is to be baptized to identify with Him after we are saved. But , in no way according to Jesus Christ does baptism play any part in obtaining salvation. ( "Chris sent me not to baptize...")
Mat_3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Mar_1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
Act_1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
Act_11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
So there are two different baptisms spoken here. One by water and the other by the Holy Ghost.
Eph_4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
So which baptism do you think is required for one to be Saved, that of water or that by the Holy Ghost?
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
Mar_1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
Act_1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
Act_11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
So there are two different baptisms spoken here. One by water and the other by the Holy Ghost.
Eph_4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
So which baptism do you think is required for one to be Saved, that of water or that by the Holy Ghost?
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
