Why do some Christians think modern crossdressing is an abomination?

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Aerin

Guest
#1
I was reading over past threads here and am surprised at the reasoning used to condemn some cross dressers and transgenders. Why would a modern cross dresser be an abomination? The context in Deuteronomy 22 seems to be more cultural to Israel of the day than universal for all time.

Is it possible that surrounding pagan peoples used cross dressing in their religious rituals? There could be many reasons why one wouldn't want to walk among the tents and camps of Israel and not be clearly distinguished as male or female from a distance (including personal protection, vulnerable to enemies, mistakenly offending a woman's husband and receiving harsh penalties, etc). Not to mention the sanitary issue of male / female body fluids that were in contact with under garments.

Modern cross dressing is something entirely different. When you're at the park and see men and women jogging, it's sometimes hard to discern genders from a distance because of all the shorts and exposed clothing that everyone wears anyway (male proper and female proper). But do we condemn a woman who wears her man's over sized t-shirts because she likes the way they feel and smell? Or a man who wears women's shorts / skinny jeans because they fit well? A transgender who has a naturally petite body? Or a woman who wears baggy man pants? Women tend to cross dress more than men because society gives them that freedom - I know many women who are NOT shy to personally shop in the men's section of any retail store. Why isn't that an abomination? To me it looks like a double standard and a cultural issue.
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
9,325
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#2
The clothes are not the real issue.

The real issue is deeper.

WHY do you want to dress, and look, intentionally like the opposite sex?
 
A

Aerin

Guest
#3
Because clothes that are tailored to one gender fit better or can look just as good on the other gender in "some" cases. My next question would be does it make men uncomfortable to see a casual, non-tacky cross dresser? Because in my experience women honestly don't seem to care - it's all about personal preference.

From the spiritual view, is it more wrong for a man to simply "see" a woman in something attractive that may cause him to have lustful thoughts, or for him to "see" a cross dresser in the same outfit? And should the woman change and cover up her dress style to accommodate the men or should the man practice self control to overcome temptation from simply seeing it?
 
S

Sirk

Guest
#4
I guess when I think of cross dressing I think of someone massaging their fleshly desires. I had a family member who engaged in this activity and it was plain and simple sexual sin.
 
Dec 19, 2009
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#5
I was reading over past threads here and am surprised at the reasoning used to condemn some cross dressers and transgenders. Why would a modern cross dresser be an abomination? The context in Deuteronomy 22 seems to be more cultural to Israel of the day than universal for all time.

Is it possible that surrounding pagan peoples used cross dressing in their religious rituals? There could be many reasons why one wouldn't want to walk among the tents and camps of Israel and not be clearly distinguished as male or female from a distance (including personal protection, vulnerable to enemies, mistakenly offending a woman's husband and receiving harsh penalties, etc). Not to mention the sanitary issue of male / female body fluids that were in contact with under garments.

Modern cross dressing is something entirely different. When you're at the park and see men and women jogging, it's sometimes hard to discern genders from a distance because of all the shorts and exposed clothing that everyone wears anyway (male proper and female proper). But do we condemn a woman who wears her man's over sized t-shirts because she likes the way they feel and smell? Or a man who wears women's shorts / skinny jeans because they fit well? A transgender who has a naturally petite body? Or a woman who wears baggy man pants? Women tend to cross dress more than men because society gives them that freedom - I know many women who are NOT shy to personally shop in the men's section of any retail store. Why isn't that an abomination? To me it looks like a double standard and a cultural issue.
We're supposed to keep our minds clear of unchaste thoughts.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#6
One problem today is that people interpret the Bible by what they think rather than what it says.

The Bible says not to do crossdressing and it is an abomination.
 
Dec 26, 2012
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#7
One problem today is that people interpret the Bible by what they think rather than what it says.

The Bible says not to do crossdressing and it is an abomination.
The Bible also says this which most leave out

Deuteronomy 25

16 For all that do such things, and all that do unrighteously, are an abomination unto the Lord thy God.

The Bible defines unrighteousness this way

1 John 5

17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

Do you understand what the Bible is plainly saying? It plainly means ALL WHO SIN are AN ABOMINATION BEFORE THE LORD. There are NO EXCEPTIONS. We are all in the same boat.

 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,706
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#8
At an elevated level it strikes me as a sign of CONFUSION promoted by a rejection of God's Word.
Here in Ca. we now have a Senate Bill passed that allows for a sexually confused kid to use the men or women's school bathroom depending on what sex they feel they are on that particular day.
 
A

Aerin

Guest
#9
One problem today is that people interpret the Bible by what they think rather than what it says.

The Bible says not to do crossdressing and it is an abomination.
I think this may be over stating the application of Deuteronomy 22:5. Abomination (Tow`ebah in the original text) is ominous language associated with idol worship, sacrifices to false gods, and sexual promiscuity, which is re-enforced throughout the Old Testament. The same word is used in Deuteronomy 24:1-4 in the instruction of a man who, if he finds some uncleanness or improper behavior in a new wife, may send her away with a bill of divorcement in which she is free to marry another man. But if the second husband dies, the first husband cannot take her back because she is now defiled and to do so would be abomination (Tow`ebah).

Because she wasn't defiled to the second husband even though she had a first husband, the abomination seems to come in the re-sharing of the body. I have to wonder if this was related to the command of not sharing garments between the sexes. Should we believe that buying new clothes from the women's section of Walmart if you happen to be male (or vice versa) was really the intent of Deuteronomy 22?

The Bible says nothing about cross dressing anywhere else in Scripture. If the context is universal instead of specific to the time, we are all utter failures to a law that should be fully applied today - even those who don't cross dress. My understanding is that failing the law simply demonstrates our need for a Savior. Abiding by one letter of the law doesn't save you from failure in 100 other ways.
 
A

Aerin

Guest
#10
At an elevated level it strikes me as a sign of CONFUSION promoted by a rejection of God's Word.
Here in Ca. we now have a Senate Bill passed that allows for a sexually confused kid to use the men or women's school bathroom depending on what sex they feel they are on that particular day.
Does the bill you speak of require some kind of litmus test before one can just enter a different restroom? Saying you feel like one gender while functioning normally as another isn't enough.

On the other hand, there are legitimate cases where a third restroom could be necessary to protect those with honest gender issues from harassment in a man's restroom. In many department stores, written policy allows women to go into men's fitting rooms but men aren't allowed in women's fitting rooms! Go to the mall and ask, you might be surprised. The separation seems to be for the purpose of protecting women from men, not the other way around. Cross dressers, intersex and transgenders have to deal with the same intimidation factor.

I would support a third restroom option (or at least the ability to use SOME restroom apart from men) for those who pass a series of medical / psychological tests.
 
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crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,706
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#11
Does the bill you speak of require some kind of litmus test before one can just enter a different restroom? Saying you feel like one gender while functioning normally as another isn't enough.

On the other hand, there are legitimate cases where a third restroom could be necessary to protect those with honest gender issues from harassment in a man's restroom. In many department stores, written policy allows women to go into men's fitting rooms but men aren't allowed in women's fitting rooms! Go to the mall and ask, you might be surprised. The separation seems to be for the purpose of protecting women from men, not the other way around. Cross dressers, intersex and transgenders have to deal with the same intimidation factor.

I would support a third restroom option (or at least the ability to use SOME restroom apart from men) for those who pass a series of medical / psychological tests.
Simply their preference.

California Governor Signs Landmark Bill for Transgender Students - US News
 
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pastac

Guest
#12
post like this confuse me you want to say its ok to dress like a woman or a man then wonder why people don't support it? The Lord is mot in confusion. When you twist or distort the word to hide behind sin deception is near by. And its looking for each of us!
 

Apostol2013

Senior Member
Jan 27, 2013
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#13
I see much confusion in your thread of the like that's not healthy , either we perceive the way God perceives therefore it is we as Christians help in gathering for salvation by mercy by mercy we speak of the love of Christ , just as He laid His life down for us , we ought to do the same for the brethren living a holy life nailing the flesh and every false incorrect percepts to the cross and taking on the eternal promise born of the spirit unto life being true gatherers for Christ by example true love of Christ , for Jesus says he that does not let me guather is against me
 
A

Aerin

Guest
#14
post like this confuse me you want to say its ok to dress like a woman or a man then wonder why people don't support it? The Lord is mot in confusion. When you twist or distort the word to hide behind sin deception is near by. And its looking for each of us!
Why is this confusing? I understand you not agreeing with how someone dresses or appears but the question is rather this verse, 22:5, in the greater context of surrounding chapters should be applied universally by all people at all times, or rather it was specific instruction to the people of Israel on the eve of capturing and settling the promise land.

If it's the former as you suggest, great care must be taken to divinely classify what in "our world" pertains to male clothing and what pertains to female clothing IN THIS VERSE. The command is given equally to women and men. Up until recent times, all men in society wore pants and all women wore long dresses. Would women wearing pants or tank tops classify as abomination?

Again I emphasize that Tow`ebah (abomination) is used in all other instances to describe idol worship and sexual promiscuity, then backed up elsewhere in the Old and New Testaments to describe the same behavior as wicked. The act of a woman simply going to the store and buying pants or a man's jersey from the men's section, for herself, then wearing it doesn't seem to meet that standard.
 
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Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
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#15
A healthy relationship between a man and woman each do have certain roles, I believe the social architects (puppets of the adversary) have gone to great lengths to rationalize things that promote gender confusion, now this may be a minor issue at hand, but it clears the path for greater issue down the road. There are children cartoons with a cross dressing super hero boy...30 years ago this may had brought outrage, now only a little. Why because the adversary has "worn" the people out (Daniyl 7:25). when Yahweh gives Instructions they are with purpose, even if we don't fully understand why.
 
Dec 18, 2013
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#16
Cross-dressing is simply shameful that's all there is to it.

Why should a man be ashamed he was born a man?

Why should a woman be ashamed she was born a woman?

A crossdresser shows publicly their shamefulness by wearing their Clothes of Confusion. I would advise a cross-dresser to cast aside the garb of their confusion and to take back their rightful place as they were made.
 

MrHonest

Senior Member
Jan 22, 2012
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#17
A lot of todays thinking is this: How can one really be sure of anything? How can one opinion overlap another; basically youre saying someone else is wrong, how dare you?

Hebrews 4:12
Matthew 12:37
Job 38:2
Ephesians 5:6
 
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pastac

Guest
#18
Why is this confusing? I understand you not agreeing with how someone dresses or appears but the question is rather this verse, 22:5, in the greater context of surrounding chapters should be applied universally by all people at all times, or rather it was specific instruction to the people of Israel on the eve of capturing and settling the promise land.

If it's the former as you suggest, great care must be taken to divinely classify what in "our world" pertains to male clothing and what pertains to female clothing IN THIS VERSE. The command is given equally to women and men. Up until recent times, all men in society wore pants and all women wore long dresses. Would women wearing pants or tank tops classify as abomination?

Again I emphasize that Tow`ebah (abomination) is used in all other instances to describe idol worship and sexual promiscuity, then backed up elsewhere in the Old and New Testaments to describe the same behavior as wicked. The act of a woman simply going to the store and buying pants or a man's jersey from the men's section, for herself, then wearing it doesn't seem to meet that standard.
I don't care what you wear that's your choice just as sin is a choice I care about how you live and apply scripture and that you understand you can distort it to say whatever you want ask Eve? if you think you are right wear dresses kilts skirts leggings or nothing at all your clothes wont keep you out of heaven but it will make it hard for you to be taken seriously on earth! If you are a man dress as a man if you are a woman dress as a woman if not its confusing what don't you get about that?
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,186
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#19
With regards to the OP...........oh goodness...............sigh..............here we go again..........
 

breno785au

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2013
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Australia
#20
Scriptures aside, are we able to discern the spirit of a person who chooses to wear the opposites sex clothing as if they were the opposite sex?