View Poll Results: According to 1 John 3:9 "No one who is born of God will continue to sin..." means:

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  • It means we can not keep on sinning.

    7 77.78%
  • It means we can not sin if God is in us.

    1 11.11%
  • I have no clue because I did not read the OP.

    1 11.11%
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Thread: Apparent Contradiction in 1 John:

  1. #61
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    Default Re: Apparent Contradiction in 1 John:

    Quote Originally Posted by Cobus View Post
    HAHAHAHA I have to laugh at this efford to make sence of the ones in iniquity and the ones God fills with Himself...

    Dan this is really a foolish thing to try to sell. First how will we EVER agree if we agree not with the WHOLE of scripture.

    And now 1 John 1. For the fimnal time I am going to attempt with the KJV to show you that in 1 John 1 there is a process.

    This time pray this with me and forget that you as a sinner can please God or make sence of a HOLY WORD of God. So here goes.

    Lord Jesus you are light. Lord you are perfect. Lord you cannot sin and in you IS NO SIN, not even the accidental sin, or sinful life or habitual or unhabitual sin... Lord in you is NO SIN OF ANY KIND... In your light there is NO DARKNESS. Lord please let us see that your holiness is indeed HOLY AS GOD IS HOLY.... Lord OPEN THE EYES OF THE BLIND PLEASE! Amen!

    1 John 1

    1Jn 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
    (I believe the closest to two languages of this WORD (Jesus) for me is the Old King James and the Afrikaans Old translation as the Word of God) This is the Scripture I will exclusively qoute and use as my reference.
    1Jn 1:2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us
    This life is the Word of God made flesh (Jesus and the life he lived... (perfect and sinless and everlasting)
    1Jn 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
    (Fellowship with the light, with the Holy Father and the perfect son)
    1Jn 1:4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.
    (My joy will only be full if God is FULL in me, NEVER BEFORE THAT)
    1Jn 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
    (Look if there is still darkness in me I am not FULL OF LIGHT)
    1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
    (How can I that still have darkness in me say I walk with God? I am lier then... but I am not lier I say there is darkness in me. I SIN that is why there is not light in me but DARKNESS! I do NOT walk like Jesus in the light with the light in me.... I have darkness in me, may God save me from the dark...
    1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
    (Ah but if I walk in the light as JESUS is in the light, then we have fellowship with him... How can I walk in the light and in the DARK at the same time? I LIE then. If I WALK in the light the blood cleanse me. Not if I walk in the DARK..... I have to STOP sinning before the sin is washed OFF.... I cannot walk in sin and Jesus cleanse me, I have to WALK IN THE LIGHT and in the light is NO SIN.....
    1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
    I NEVER said I have no sin. But I have way less that I had before I started walking OUT OF DARKNESS and into the light. I am not fully in the light yet, but I believe the two verses following as they fit perfectly into 1 John 3:9 and 1 John 5:18 and the rest of the Bible.
    1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
    I confess my sin as the Holy Spirit lies it on my heart and as God ENABLES me I nail it to the cross. And that is how the OLD MAN IS CRUCIFIED with Christ. Remember if I walk in the light he CLEANSE me... Every sin I lay down, I put LIGHT in its place, and that is how the SIN IS NAILED to NEVER return and that is How it is WASHED and CLEANSED FOREVER....If Jesus forgive a sin in my life HE REMOVES IT FROM THE LIFE IN THE LIGHT...
    The moment the last sin is removed this happens...... SIN IS IN THE PAST.... GONE FOREVER FOR THE MAN OF GOD....

    1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
    If we say we have not SINNED... PAST TENSE.... People please get this... ALL saved people are saved by God to be EXACTLY like His Son on earth. NOt 99%, 100% like Jesus. God says to HIS (Jesus) measure, stature and fulness.

    How can God make a man 100% to the measure of Jesus, 100% to the stature of Jesus, and 100% to the fulness of Jesus, and the man still sin? How can God mess that up? HE CANNOT!

    Every person that is BORN OF GOD is exactly to the measure, stature and fulness of Chrsit Jesus... PERFECT MAN...
    Eph 4:13....
    Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

    I believe God and His Word.... GOd makes a man perfect when He joins the man to the Body of Christ. May the Lord join me to that Body as well. And you Dan. I Love you man.

    The more love in me the less sin... WOW! Mayhbe god's love is growing in this Cobus that God RECREATE to a NEW CREATURE where all the old is GONE.. WOWOOWOWOWO!
    and all of Satan's minions rejoiced

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    Default Re: Apparent Contradiction in 1 John:

    Quote Originally Posted by Kerry View Post
    and all of Satan's minions rejoiced
    Kerry I do not understand? can you tell me what you mean?

  3. #63


    haz
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    Default Re: Apparent Contradiction in 1 John:

    Quote Originally Posted by gotime View Post
    nice one, but context again matters or else I could just post this:

    Rom_7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
    You seemed to have missed my point in quoting Gal 3:12.
    The law is not of faith is referring to the fact that by works of the law no flesh shall be justified.
    Anyone determining righteousness by obedience to the law makes themselves a sinner, Gal 2:18.

    Gal 2:16
    Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.


    Quote Originally Posted by gotime View Post
    but only the doers of the law will remain justified.

    Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

    So why does Paul seem to contradict himself here?
    The problem is in our understanding. If I try to be saved by works of the law then I am rejecting the fact that Jesus is the only one who can save me.
    but on the other hand If I am saved by faith in Jesus then the power of the Spirit brings forth fruit of obedience.
    Thus Paul can speak in one place about not being saved by the law and yet in another place he says only those who keep the law are justified. It's a matter of perspective and context.
    Was the thief on the cross who called Jesus "Lord" a "doer of the law" and thus justified thereby, as you claim we need to be?

    It seems that you are suggesting that those with death bed salvation, short life spans or basically any Christian who fails to attain perfect obedience to the law, all fail to be justified as they never got to attain perfect obedience to the law/be "doers of the law". According to the doctrine you follow, only those who attain perfect obedience to the law are justified as "doers of the law".

    Quote Originally Posted by gotime View Post
    we are not saved by keeping the law.
    keeping the law is evidence that we are saved.
    Here you claim that most, if not all Christians here on CC are not saved unless we obey the law perfectly.

    Yet the simplicity of the gospel was discovered by the thief on the cross. He believed on Jesus.

    Scriptures gives many warnings about turning back to the law for righteousness by works of the law. Christians fight the good fight of faith (believing on Jesus) and thus are to avoid false doctrine that can corrupt our minds luring us back under the law for righteousness.
    2Cor 11:3
    But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

    Doctrines that say we're saved by grace and not by works of the law, but then subtly add that without works of the law then you're lost, are really just lukewarm doctrines that mix works of the law with grace. And we all know that this cannot be, Rom 11:6.

  4. #64


    CWJ
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    Default Re: Apparent Contradiction in 1 John:

    Response to OP

    Whosoever is born of God

    doth not commit sin;
    for His seed remaineth in him:
    and He cannot sin,
    because He is born of God.'

    (1 John 3:9)

    'If we say that we have no sin,
    we deceive ourselves,
    and the truth is not in us.'

    (1 John 1:8)

    Hi Danschance,

    looking at 1 John 3:9, I interpret it to refer to the new nature, which is born of the Spirit of God, and indwells the believer in the Lord Jesus Christ.

    'He' (God's seed - being 'spirit') 'remaineth' in the believer.
    'He' (God's seed - being 'spirit') cannot sin.
    Because 'He' (the indwelling new nature or 'spirit') is born of God.

    If we say we (in the flesh) have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.'

    * The contrast is between flesh and spirit (see Rom.5:12-8:39).

    In Christ Jesus
    Chris
    Last edited by CWJ; May 4th, 2014 at 09:12 AM.

  5. #65


    haz
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    Default Re: Apparent Contradiction in 1 John:

    Quote Originally Posted by CWJ View Post
    The contrast is between flesh and spirit
    Rom 8:9
    But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

  6. #66


    CWJ
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    Default Re: Apparent Contradiction in 1 John:

    Exactly Haz!



    Praise God!

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    Default Re: Apparent Contradiction in 1 John:

    Quote Originally Posted by CWJ View Post
    Response to OP

    Whosoever is born of God

    doth not commit sin;
    for His seed remaineth in him:
    and He cannot sin,
    because He is born of God.'

    (1 John 3:9)

    'If we say that we have no sin,
    we deceive ourselves,
    and the truth is not in us.'

    (1 John 1:8)

    Hi Danschance,

    looking at 1 John 3:9, I interpret it to refer to the new nature, which is born of the Spirit of God, and indwells the believer in the Lord Jesus Christ.

    'He' (God's seed - being 'spirit') 'remaineth' in the believer.
    'He' (God's seed - being 'spirit') cannot sin.
    Because 'He' (the indwelling new nature or 'spirit') is born of God.

    If we say we (in the flesh) have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.'

    * The contrast is between flesh and spirit (see Rom.5:12-8:39).



    In Christ Jesus
    Chris
    Chris it is more than what you think... You make it as if these people still do sin but only in the flesh... God says this....
    And this is the SEED God talks about? Why did God not say they have the Spirit of God in them that is why they sin not... No God says SEED becasue this is the SEED...

    Ezek 36 :26 and 27.... A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
    Eze 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

    Chris these poeple do not sin becasue the heart that made the flesh sin (the stony heart IS GONE)! And the NEW heart CANNOT sin for it is the heart of PURE HOLINESS that God implants. Not only the heart but also a NEW Spirit.... HIS Spirit. I truly believe God's seed is the Spirit and the NEW HEART that cannot sin. And God CAUSE them to walk in His will.... GOD HIMSELF CAUSE THEM TO WALK IN HIS WILL.... His will in short?

    Mat 5:48...
    Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

    GOD CAUSE THEM ALL TO BE PERFECT!

  8. #68
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    Default Re: Apparent Contradiction in 1 John:

    Quote Originally Posted by CWJ View Post
    Response to OP

    Whosoever is born of God

    doth not commit sin;
    for His seed remaineth in him:
    and He cannot sin,
    because He is born of God.'

    (1 John 3:9)

    'If we say that we have no sin,
    we deceive ourselves,
    and the truth is not in us.'

    (1 John 1:8)

    Hi Danschance,

    looking at 1 John 3:9, I interpret it to refer to the new nature, which is born of the Spirit of God, and indwells the believer in the Lord Jesus Christ.

    'He' (God's seed - being 'spirit') 'remaineth' in the believer.
    'He' (God's seed - being 'spirit') cannot sin.
    Because 'He' (the indwelling new nature or 'spirit') is born of God.

    If we say we (in the flesh) have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.'

    * The contrast is between flesh and spirit (see Rom.5:12-8:39).

    In Christ Jesus
    Chris
    It is nice that you have an opinion but I posted an article which explained it from the Greek. It is more an issue with the peculiarities of certain Greek tenses and they are not the same as tenses in English.

    Please read this and you will see: Can a true Christian sin or not? | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry
    But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code. Romans 7:6

  9. #69
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    Default Re: Apparent Contradiction in 1 John:

    Quote Originally Posted by Cobus View Post
    Chris it is more than what you think... You make it as if these people still do sin but only in the flesh... God says this....
    And this is the SEED God talks about? Why did God not say they have the Spirit of God in them that is why they sin not... No God says SEED becasue this is the SEED...

    Ezek 36 :26 and 27.... A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
    Eze 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

    Chris these poeple do not sin becasue the heart that made the flesh sin (the stony heart IS GONE)! And the NEW heart CANNOT sin for it is the heart of PURE HOLINESS that God implants. Not only the heart but also a NEW Spirit.... HIS Spirit. I truly believe God's seed is the Spirit and the NEW HEART that cannot sin. And God CAUSE them to walk in His will.... GOD HIMSELF CAUSE THEM TO WALK IN HIS WILL.... His will in short?

    Mat 5:48...
    Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

    GOD CAUSE THEM ALL TO BE PERFECT!
    If Matt 5:48 means we can be perfect then God is a liar because:

    If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 1 John 1:8
    Certainly God is not a liar and the bible must harmonize if it is true. So what does Matt 5:48 mean? Man can not acheive sinless perfection, as the bible clearly states in 1 John 1:8. The Greek word translated into the word perfect above does not mean sinless perfection. It means complete or mature (e.g. 1Cor 2:6, Phil 3:5, Heb 5:14).

    So Cobus, if you claim to be perfect you also make the bible out to be a lie as it says in 1 John 1:8 that all men are sinners. The bible must harmonize or it is rubbish, so therefore your claim of sinless perfection can not be true.

    Here is a good article that explains what Matt 5:48 is about.
    Does Matthew 5:48 Require Sinless Perfection? | PhilGons.com
    But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code. Romans 7:6

  10. #70


    CWJ
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    Default Re: Apparent Contradiction in 1 John:

    Chris it is more than what you think... You make it as if these people still do sin but only in the flesh... God says this....
    And this is the SEED God talks about? Why did God not say they have the Spirit of God in them that is why they sin not... No God says SEED becasue this is the SEED...


    Ezek 36 :26 and 27.... A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
    Eze 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.


    Chris these poeple do not sin becasue the heart that made the flesh sin (the stony heart IS GONE)! And the NEW heart CANNOT sin for it is the heart of PURE HOLINESS that God implants. Not only the heart but also a NEW Spirit.... HIS Spirit. I truly believe God's seed is the Spirit and the NEW HEART that cannot sin. And God CAUSE them to walk in His will.... GOD HIMSELF CAUSE THEM TO WALK IN HIS WILL.... His will in short?


    Mat 5:48... Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
    GOD CAUSE THEM ALL TO BE PERFECT!






    It is nice that you have an opinion but I posted an article which explained it from the Greek. It is more an issue with the peculiarities of certain Greek tenses and they are not the same as tenses in English.


    Please read this and you will see: Can a true Christian sin or not? | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry
    Quoted from the link
    There is no contradiction. What is happening is that John is saying that the one who is born again does not habitually abide in sin. He may fall into it, but he does not practice it as a lifestyle. The nuances of the Greek language are not carried over to the English, but when we understand what is happening we then see there is no problem.
    danschance
    corbus


    Hello there,

    Thank you both for responding to my entry.

    I do appreciate the reference made by danschance to the Greek tenses, and having read the link provided, now understand perfectly the point being made in regard to the apparent contradiction between 1 John 1:8 & 3:9. Thank you danschance.

    --------------

    Corbus has a different approach, and I thank him for expressing it. Though I need to think it over a bit more before I can respond to it adequately.

    In God's eyes, we who have been saved by His grace, by means of the all-sufficient sacrifice of His Son, are now 'Holy and without blame', 'without blemish and without spot'. For we are identified with Christ, now risen and glorified. All of these things I learn from the letter to the Ephesians, written to and concerning the Church which is His Body, 'the Fulness of Him which filleth all in all.'

    I recognize the address on the envelope (of Ephesians), and identify myself as part of the company so described. This is addressed therefore to me, and I can claim it's truth to be my possession in Christ and rejoice in it.

    However, corbus, the references you have given, though containing wonderful truth, is not addressed to me, but to redeemed Israel (Ezek 36 :26 and 27). It is their portion, and awaits their repentance and regeneration. The address on the envelope of Ezekiel is not addressed to me (Eze 36:1), so I cannot claim it's truth to be for me.

    I thank you both.
    In Jesus Name
    Chris
    Last edited by CWJ; May 4th, 2014 at 03:58 PM.

  11. #71


    haz
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    Default Re: Apparent Contradiction in 1 John:

    Quote Originally Posted by danschance View Post
    In a nut shell, it means we do not keep on sinning or have a life style of sinning.
    Hi danschance.

    Here is one of the problems I find with your claim above.
    As keeping the Sabbath holy is part of the law, and sin is transgression of the law (1John 3:4), are you saying that Christians who make a life style of neglecting the Sabbath are of the devil (1John 3:8) and have not seen Christ, neither known him, (1John 3:6)?

    And what is the cut-off point where one is deemed to be "habitually" sinning and therefore excluded from the kingdom of Heaven?
    Is it 7x70 sins and then your rejected as a "habitual" sinner?

    And over what period?
    We all have different life spans.
    are those with death bed salvation blessed in that they didn't have to go through a "habitual" sin trial, whilst others who lived on had to reach some unspecified minimum standard over a given time frame based on how long they lived?

    I ask this because the "habitual" sin doctrine seems so full of ambiguity and confusion that it seems more likely to be man's doctrine.

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    Default Re: Apparent Contradiction in 1 John:

    Quote Originally Posted by danschance View Post
    I posted what I thought the answer was to this. Its an issue with Greek tenses. In a nut shell, it means we do not keep on sinning or have a life style of sinning.
    I don't usually agree with Matt Slick (he's a 5 point hyper Calvinist), but in this case, he is correct.

    Romans 6:1,2 and 15 are basically saying the same thing as 1 John 3:9:

    Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
    Romans 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
    Romans 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

    1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

    Our sin nature is not eradicated when we get saved and we will never reach a state of "sinless perfection" in this life. There will always be a "spiritual" battle between our "flesh" and the indwelling Holy Spirit (Galatians 5:16-17) but even though we still sin, we will "sin less".

    1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
    1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
    danschance likes this.
    If today, the Master came
    To catch His Bride away
    Would you be left behind in shame?
    Or enter that Glorious Day?

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    Default Re: Apparent Contradiction in 1 John:

    2Co_5:17Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away, and look, new things have come.

    1John3:9 it states:No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God. 1John 3:9

    We all accept 1John 1:8:If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 1John1:8-9

    Rom_7:18For I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh. For the desire to do what is good is with me, but there is no ability to do it.

    Why can’t we just accept the word of God like little children, not even have to analyze it.We, who are saved put on Christ and Christ cannot sin.The part of us that is Christ centered is sinless.

    It is also so that we are in the flesh, so we cannot say we have no sin.We are incapable of only living in Christ 24/7.Scripture says that if we say this we deceive ourselves.

    So it is true that as we put on Christ, we are sinless.It is also true that we are in the flesh that knows sin.Both are true.We need Christ.

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    Default Re: Apparent Contradiction in 1 John:

    Quote Originally Posted by haz View Post
    Hi danschance.

    Here is one of the problems I find with your claim above.
    As keeping the Sabbath holy is part of the law, and sin is transgression of the law (1John 3:4), are you saying that Christians who make a life style of neglecting the Sabbath are of the devil (1John 3:8) and have not seen Christ, neither known him, (1John 3:6)?

    And what is the cut-off point where one is deemed to be "habitually" sinning and therefore excluded from the kingdom of Heaven?
    Is it 7x70 sins and then your rejected as a "habitual" sinner?

    And over what period?
    We all have different life spans.
    are those with death bed salvation blessed in that they didn't have to go through a "habitual" sin trial, whilst others who lived on had to reach some unspecified minimum standard over a given time frame based on how long they lived?

    I ask this because the "habitual" sin doctrine seems so full of ambiguity and confusion that it seems more likely to be man's doctrine.
    That is your problem with the law, the Sabbath. If that were not there you would have no problem with people keeping the law would you?

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    Default Re: Apparent Contradiction in 1 John:

    BY the way haz its John that says it. go have a read its right there in your bible.

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    Default Re: Apparent Contradiction in 1 John:

    Quote Originally Posted by haz View Post
    Hi danschance.

    Here is one of the problems I find with your claim above.
    As keeping the Sabbath holy is part of the law, and sin is transgression of the law (1John 3:4), are you saying that Christians who make a life style of neglecting the Sabbath are of the devil (1John 3:8) and have not seen Christ, neither known him, (1John 3:6)?

    And what is the cut-off point where one is deemed to be "habitually" sinning and therefore excluded from the kingdom of Heaven?
    Is it 7x70 sins and then your rejected as a "habitual" sinner?

    And over what period?
    We all have different life spans.
    are those with death bed salvation blessed in that they didn't have to go through a "habitual" sin trial, whilst others who lived on had to reach some unspecified minimum standard over a given time frame based on how long they lived?

    I ask this because the "habitual" sin doctrine seems so full of ambiguity and confusion that it seems more likely to be man's doctrine.
    I don't think humans can use legalistic measurement sticks to gauge sins. Sins start with the spirit and flow into our actions. That is one of the reasons that we are not to judge other people. we cannot know of their spirit.

    One person can religiously go to church and another never go, yet the one who doesn't go could be making the day holy to the Lord, the church goer could have no idea of keeping a Sabbath.

    Each of us knows if we worship the Lord with all our heart. It isn't done with avoiding sin, but with listening and worshipping God. Keeping to the ways of Christ flows from that.

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    Default Re: Apparent Contradiction in 1 John:

    Quote Originally Posted by gotime View Post
    That is your problem with the law, the Sabbath. If that were not there you would have no problem with people keeping the law would you?
    Gotime, are you sure you're not a Sabbitarian?
    You sure sound like one as they use this same argument as you used above.

    I use the Sabbath point in my post merely as an example, especially as I recall that Danschance is not a Sabbitarian.
    I raised the Saturday Sabbath point to try to make him consider the full implications of the error that Matt Slick was promoting through his teaching.

    Quote Originally Posted by gotime View Post
    BY the way haz its John that says it. go have a read its right there in your bible.
    You still seem to miss the point that whatever the law says it says to those under it, Rom 3:19.
    And, Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

    Christians are not under the law (Rom 8:2, Gal 3:24,25, Gal 5:18, 1Tim 1:9) hence they cannot be charged with it's transgression/sin. This is what John refers to in his epistles.
    Rom 8:33
    Who shall lay any thing(this includes sin) to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

    For Christians it's now our faith that is counted for righteousness, Rom 4:5.

    What I see from the doctrine you follow is a denial that our faith
    is counted for righteousness because you only see righteousness in terms of actual physical evidence of perfect obedience to the law (just as in the OT).

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    Default Re: Apparent Contradiction in 1 John:

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTent View Post
    I don't think humans can use legalistic measurement sticks to gauge sins.
    You are correct RedTent, we should not use legalistic measurement sticks. The law of righteousness is the measuring stick for righteousness and believers do not use this measuring stick to determine or even prove righteousness.

    Instead it's our faith that is counted for righteousness, Rom 4:5.
    That's how our righteousness is attained. Believe on Jesus.
    Christians are fighting the good fight of faith. We are to believe God's promise of everlasting life through Christ Jesus, until the end.

    But if we start mixing works of the law with grace, then this is being lukewarm and will be rejected by God, unless we repent of it.

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    Default Re: Apparent Contradiction in 1 John:

    OK, stop this at it's roots and be blessed while doing it, Who was without sin? Jesus, only him, we are although "Blood Bought, washed in the Blood of the Lamb, still sinners, what is being stated in these verses is the fact the we will not be "slaves" to sin. God's word also stated that if we say we are without sin, we make Him a liar and are a liar. Strong words, but we are saved sinners, and we will continue living in sin as long as we live in this fallen world. Make no mistake, scripture should not be taken out of context, meaning "what was said" "who said it" "who is it talking to" what was the "lead-in" to the scripture and the lead-out, and how can I use it in my daily life, do all this only with the help of the Holy Spirit through prayer, because God's Word is Spiritual and it speaks to us in ways that will open our minds and clear our thoughts, For God is Holy and he is the hammer, be holy as I am holy He said!
    In fact the Book of Revelations says, that when the 4 and twenty elders fall at the feet of Jesus, they have these golden bowls. And you know what’s in the bowls? This incense that is so fragrant to Christ, it’s the prayers of the saints. I mean what must prayer mean to God that He keeps it in bowls. Just imagine that when you or I kneel or stand or pray seated, and we really open our hearts to God. Somehow those things are kept. They are so precious to God.

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    Default Re: Apparent Contradiction in 1 John:

    I have often crossed every "t" and dotted every "i" and at times I could say, "I have no sin!" Then God would show me the hidden things of my heart. He would show me the hidden resentment or bitterness, the lingering fear or self-pity, the lasting pride or arrogance. Often when I think I am without sin God shows me the fallen motives of my heart. I believe we are free from sin in the spirit, but our flesh continually fails and that is why we are commanded to crucify it.

    Jeremiah 17:9 "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?"

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