New Muslim

[Osiyo]

Here we go again, everyone of us would make Christ proud! I do understand way people won't and don't think nicely about what they call Christians, because the first chance we get we pull out our pistols and start shooting. I pray we all have on our bullet-poof underwear. It makes me sick the amount of love there is here, it is smothering, what a testimony. Praise the Lord! I really told my mind to that Islamic person, the angels in heaven are talking about me!

Forgive the attack but come on, who are we kidding? Who are we representing? And with what Spirit are we talking? It is not godly what is going on here in this thread! And we claim to be the blood bought? For the bible tells us one day that we all will stand at the Judgment seat of Christ and Gods going to ask us, why we served the Body of Christ, and with what Spirit. It reminds all of us today that we have to do Gods work with Gods Spirit. We have to do Gods work and approach it with Gods heart because one day, it does not matter if your friends approve of you or how popular you are or I might be. One day the Bible says we all will stand, in front of the one whose eyes are like fire, and you can’t get over on Him.

 

[Hizikyah]

Leviticus 19:17, "You shall not hate your neighbor in your heart. Rebuke your brother frankly, so you will not share in his guilt."

 

[Hizikyah]

satan says to accept all false doctrines

 

[Osiyo]

@Hizikyah, be blessed brother, thank you for the words of wisdom, yes we are to rebuke, I have asked our guest a few questions but he has not been able to answer my questions as of yet. I do know the Koran, I have read it, how else can one converse with Islamic people? I as a former member of the 75th Ranger Regiment in Vietnam do know what hate is and how to respect those that don't have a chance in hell for heaven, and I do know that we are to show love, and compassion on people such as our guest.

 

[GodTruth]

i am happy to see good people here and that shows its not religion thats bad but people who don't know respect

 

[Osiyo]

So my friend, how do you know that you're heaven bound?

 

[Osiyo]

For it is a very valid question. I will walk to the gates of Hell with you with the pray on my lips for your salvation before I give up on you.

 

[GodTruth]

So my friend, how do you know that you're heaven bound?

brother i don't know what heaven bound means !!

 

[Cycel]

my flag is indian flag bro..

Ah, so it is.

the militants in nigeria are sick people and they only represent how retard they are..
all islamic groups have condoned such sickness !!

Condemned by many, yes, but nevertheless they are ruthless and they are Muslim. We can hardly go a day without hearing about Islamic terrorist attacks somewhere in the world. Islamic violence is wide spread and common place.

One concern I have is that Islam does not allow anyone to give up that faith. Apostates from some Christian sects are shunned by former friends and family members, but Christianity does not advocate killing them. Apostates from Islam are often sentenced to death, or killed, or threatened with death. I have seen in the Hadith (2171) that the Prophet says the blood of a Muslim may be spilled only under three conditions. The third condition: “The one who turns renegade from Islâm (apostate) and leaves the group of Muslims.”

By the way the same Hadith also justifies the killing of “A married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse.” We hear of this often in Islamic countries and I think most of us in the West see this as barbaric. While we may not approve of infidelity in marriage few, if any of us, think the state has any business in the bedrooms of the nation – at least that would be the view of the majority of Canadians.

In the light of contemporary secular society, at least, a number of the provisions of Islam strikes us as immoral at best and criminal at worst.

Where do you stand on the enforcement of Islamic rules against apostasy and sexual relations outside marriage?

 

[TheAristocat]

what godissalvation told was his view of islam and the people he is with and i can tell u it has no truth in it...
i can post anti-christian videos and atheist videos on christianity but its stupid to post such things because they are just views and not facts..

Well, what he said is a fact. There were certain verses in the Qur'an that have been subsequently removed. Of course there are Islamic explanations for these verses, but nothing that you could expect a member of another faith to believe.

If we're talking about a matter of doctrine, then you could claim his views of the Qur'an are in error. But if we're talking about a matter of how the Qur'an was originally written, then you could not claim that this was a lie when the evidence is there for all to see. So it would be difficult to convince any Christian here of the authenticity of the Qur'an. But you can, say, ask any question concerning Christianity or Judaism you like and receive an answer.

 

[Jackson123]

Islam was not founded by Roman Catholics, that is historically incorrect in all ways.

Islam began when Mahomet, whom started as a good man, albeit a pagan worshipper of the pagan moon-idol Allah had an experience with either a demon or Satan in the Cave of Hira. One can easily see by the accounts of his biographers, his edicts, and the accounts of even his closest companions and wives that from the moment he was deceived in the cave of Hira that Mahomet's life turned into a downward spiral of depravity. Do not even hate Mahomet, for Mahomet is your brother. Our fight is not against Mahomet, it is against the spiritually wicked thing that twisted him and continues to destroy countless of our brothers today.

Our fight is not against the people caught in the snare of Islam, it is against Islam itself for the reason that it is killing our brothers every single day!

Remember the goodly words of the Apostle Paul

Ephesians 6

1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Honour thy father and mother; which is the first commandment with promise;
[SUP]3 [/SUP]That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;
[SUP]7 [/SUP]With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men:
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
[SUP]19 [/SUP]And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,
[SUP]20 [/SUP]For which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]But that ye also may know my affairs, and how I do, Tychicus, a beloved brother and faithful minister in the Lord, shall make known to you all things:
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Whom I have sent unto you for the same purpose, that ye might know our affairs, and that he might comfort your hearts.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Peace be to the brethren, and love with faith, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Grace be with all them that love our Lord Jesus Christ in sincerity. Amen.

Brother, I am not hate muslim. Our duty is to love not hate that's way we have to inform our islam brother to make research deeply for his own salvation.

About history, it depend on who write. In indonesia, we have 2 version of communist history of insurgency. Government version, and Prof Ben Anderson version.

Consider these fact.

1. Islam founded after catholic. So it is possible that Catholic create Islam.
2. The story of Moses, Adam etc in Quran similar to the bible.

Let say, I call myself a prophet and I declare, last night the Lord tell me that Washington is the capital of United state.
What I said is correct. But do you believe the Lord speak to me?

It is in the Geography that Washington is the capital city. I get information from the Book not from the Lord.

It is similar to what is in Quran. the story of Moses, Mary etc is in the bible and I believe Mohamad know this story from his wife Katijah which is Catholic.

3. The principle of the teaching is similar, salvation by work.

4. Doctor Alberto Rivera write his book in 1972, and said the reason to create islam is to take Jerusalem ( I heard from other resource that the reason vatican want Jerusalem is because Catholic believe Pope is Jesus representative on earth. Bible said Jesus will come for second time and will reign from Jerusalem. so because Pope represent Jesus, he must reign from Jerusalem.) I read his book in about 1992 back then I doubt

Now I after 40 years look at the fact. I Google vatican want Jerusalem. I found more than 3 million article.

I can go on and on and on and on,

Dr Alberto Rivera said a lot of thing 40 years ago about Vatican plan and he said years before it happen and we see it happening now.

About 3,230,000 results (0.47 seconds)

​

[h=2]Search Results[/h]

1. [h=3]U.S. plan gives Jerusalem holy sites to Vatican[/h]www.wnd.com/.../u-s-plan-gives-jerusalem-holy-sites-to-...
   
   
   
   WorldNetDaily
   
   
   
   Dec 15, 2013 - U.S. plan gives Jerusalem holy sites to Vatican. International .... AFL-CIOwants Federal Government to Bail Out Detroit Union Facts | Comprehensive Database of Information on US Labor Unions.
   
   
2. [h=3]June 2013 – “The Vatican Wants Jerusalem” | Prophecies Of ...[/h]propheciesoftheendtimes.com/june-2013-the-vatican-wants-jerusalem/
   
   
   
   
   
   The Vatican Seeks to Reclaim its Own –. “The Vatican Wants Jerusalem”. As Study in the Israeli-Vatican Diplomatic Relations that will Lead to the Prophetic ...
   
   
3. [h=3]Expose: The Vatican Wants to Lay its Hands on Jerusalem[/h]www.israelnationalnews.com › News
   
   
   
   Arutz Sheva
   
   
   
   Dec 15, 2011 - The Vatican is now reiterating demands for control of religious sites inJerusalem. Jordan's occupation 1948-1967 didn't bother them.
   
   
4. [h=3]WND: Kerry proposed deal to give Vatican control of at least ...[/h]
   
   
   
   
   www.cogwriter.com/.../wnd-kerry-proposed-deal-to-give-vatica...
   

   
   
   
   
   by Bob Thiel - in 45 Google+ circles
   Dec 16, 2013 - Essentially, this plan divides Jerusalem in a way that Israel does not care for, gets the Muslims involved, and gets the Vatican what it wants.​
   
   
   
   
5. [h=3]Vatican Moves on Temple Mount [/h]
   

​

 

[GodTruth]

Ah, so it is.


Condemned by many, yes, but nevertheless they are ruthless and they are Muslim. We can hardly go a day without hearing about Islamic terrorist attacks somewhere in the world. Islamic violence is wide spread and common place.

One concern I have is that Islam does not allow anyone to give up that faith. Apostates from some Christian sects are shunned by former friends and family members, but Christianity does not advocate killing them. Apostates from Islam are often sentenced to death, or killed, or threatened with death. I have seen in the Hadith (2171) that the Prophet says the blood of a Muslim may be spilled only under three conditions. The third condition: “The one who turns renegade from Islâm (apostate) and leaves the group of Muslims.”

By the way the same Hadith also justifies the killing of “A married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse.” We hear of this often in Islamic countries and I think most of us in the West see this as barbaric. While we may not approve of infidelity in marriage few, if any of us, think the state has any business in the bedrooms of the nation – at least that would be the view of the majority of Canadians.

In the light of contemporary secular society, at least, a number of the provisions of Islam strikes us as immoral at best and criminal at worst.

Where do you stand on the enforcement of Islamic rules against apostasy and sexual relations outside marriage?

and people who bomb muslim countries, what are they called?
the american people who killed millions of iraqis, what was their religion? christianity i guess?
and drone attacks, whats their religion?
and who are killing afghans?
i don't wanna discuss politics here..
if u wanna discuss islam and what it teaches, u can ask me but um not into politics..

 

[Hizikyah]

Koran 2:106 Nothing of our revelation (even a single verse) do we abrogate or cause be forgotten, but we bring (in place) one better or the like thereof.

So much for reliability of the text, if it can be changed or made to be forgotten and its ok how can there be any authenticity.

 

[GodTruth]

Ah, so it is.


Condemned by many, yes, but nevertheless they are ruthless and they are Muslim. We can hardly go a day without hearing about Islamic terrorist attacks somewhere in the world. Islamic violence is wide spread and common place.

One concern I have is that Islam does not allow anyone to give up that faith. Apostates from some Christian sects are shunned by former friends and family members, but Christianity does not advocate killing them. Apostates from Islam are often sentenced to death, or killed, or threatened with death. I have seen in the Hadith (2171) that the Prophet says the blood of a Muslim may be spilled only under three conditions. The third condition: “The one who turns renegade from Islâm (apostate) and leaves the group of Muslims.”

By the way the same Hadith also justifies the killing of “A married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse.” We hear of this often in Islamic countries and I think most of us in the West see this as barbaric. While we may not approve of infidelity in marriage few, if any of us, think the state has any business in the bedrooms of the nation – at least that would be the view of the majority of Canadians.

In the light of contemporary secular society, at least, a number of the provisions of Islam strikes us as immoral at best and criminal at worst.

Where do you stand on the enforcement of Islamic rules against apostasy and sexual relations outside marriage?

and u talked about asostacy. what u think of this:
Deuteronomy 13:6-9 "If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying: Let us go and worship other gods (gods that neither you nor your fathers have known, gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other, or gods of other religions), do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people."

Deuteronomy 17:3-5 "And he should go and worship other gods and bow down to them or to the sun or the moon or all the army of the heavens, .....and you must stone such one with stones and such one must die."

Chronicles 15:13 "All who would not seek the LORD, the God of Israel, were to be put to death, whether small or great, man or woman."

And about adultery:

Exodus 20:14 "You shall not commit adultery."
Deuteronomy 22:22 "If a man is found sleeping with another man's wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die."
Leviticus 20:10 "If a man commits adultery with another man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death."
Proverbs 6:32 "But a man who commits adultery lacks judgment; whoever does so destroys himself." He destroys himself by being put to death as shown above.
Leviticus 21:9 "And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire." Why should only a daughter of a priest gets burnt to death if she profanes herself? Why can't this law apply to all daughters?
Deuteronomy 25:11-12 "If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity." This doesn't make any sense what so ever! Why should the woman get her hands cut off for defending her husband? It's not like she was cheating on him or anything like that!


Let us see what Jesus peace be upon him said about adultery:
The following Verses are from the NIV Bible:
Matthew 19:9 "I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery." Wouldn't this cause the man to be put to death?
Mark 10:11 "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her." Again, wouldn't he then be put to death since he would have committed adultery?
Mark 10:12 "And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery." Same question I ask about the women who are considered have committed adultery. Wouldn't they be put to death also?
Luke 16:18 "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery."
My question here is: Would an adulterer in the New Testament be put to death?
Keep in mind that when Jesus gave the above laws, he gave them during the time when he spoke highly of the Old Testament's Law:
Jesus orders Christians to follow the Old Testament's laws: "Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law (the Old Testament) or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law (the Old Testament) until everything is accomplished. (Matthew 5:17-18)" It is quite clear from these verses from the New Testament that Jesus peace be upon him did honor the Old Testament and did say that every single "letter" of it has to be honored, followed and fulfilled.
"Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 'The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.' (Matthew 23:1-3)" We clearly see in these verses that Jesus peace be upon him did not prohibit for the Old Testament to be followed, but only warned his followers to not follow it the way the current religious leaders of the Law (the Jewish Rabies) were following it.
So according to Jesus peace be upon him, the adulterer in the New Testament must be put to death.



but i guess u don't read or believe in bible or are u atheist??

 

[Hizikyah]

However Scripture says:

Deuteronomy 4:2, "You shall not add to the word which I command you, nor shall you take anything from it, so that you may keep the Laws of Yahweh your Father which I command you."

 

[GodTruth]

Well, what he said is a fact. There were certain verses in the Qur'an that have been subsequently removed. Of course there are Islamic explanations for these verses, but nothing that you could expect a member of another faith to believe.

If we're talking about a matter of doctrine, then you could claim his views of the Qur'an are in error. But if we're talking about a matter of how the Qur'an was originally written, then you could not claim that this was a lie when the evidence is there for all to see. So it would be difficult to convince any Christian here of the authenticity of the Qur'an. But you can, say, ask any question concerning Christianity or Judaism you like and receive an answer.

there is nothing removed from Quran but i guess ur talking about bible:

List of Bible verses not included in modern translations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[prodigal]

and u talked about asostacy. what u think of this:
Deuteronomy 13:6-9"If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying: Let us go and worship other gods (gods that neither you nor your fathers have known, gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other, or gods of other religions), do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people."

Deuteronomy 17:3-5 "And he should go and worship other gods and bow down to them or to the sun or the moon or all the army of the heavens, .....and you must stone such one with stones and such one must die."

Chronicles 15:13"All who would not seek the LORD, the God of Israel, were to be put to death, whether small or great, man or woman."

And about adultery:

Exodus 20:14 "You shall not commit adultery."
Deuteronomy 22:22 "If a man is found sleeping with another man's wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die."
Leviticus 20:10 "If a man commits adultery with another man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death."
Proverbs 6:32 "But a man who commits adultery lacks judgment; whoever does so destroys himself." He destroys himself by being put to death as shown above.
Leviticus 21:9 "And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire." Why should only a daughter of a priest gets burnt to death if she profanes herself? Why can't this law apply to all daughters?
Deuteronomy 25:11-12 "If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity." This doesn't make any sense what so ever! Why should the woman get her hands cut off for defending her husband? It's not like she was cheating on him or anything like that!


Let us see what Jesus peace be upon him said about adultery:
The following Verses are from the NIV Bible:
Matthew 19:9 "I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery." Wouldn't this cause the man to be put to death?
Mark 10:11 "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her." Again, wouldn't he then be put to death since he would have committed adultery?
Mark 10:12 "And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery." Same question I ask about the women who are considered have committed adultery. Wouldn't they be put to death also?
Luke 16:18 "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery."
My question here is: Would an adulterer in the New Testament be put to death?
Keep in mind that when Jesus gave the above laws, he gave them during the time when he spoke highly of the Old Testament's Law:
Jesus orders Christians to follow the Old Testament's laws: "Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law (the Old Testament) or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law (the Old Testament) until everything is accomplished. (Matthew 5:17-18)" It is quite clear from these verses from the New Testament that Jesus peace be upon him did honor the Old Testament and did say that every single "letter" of it has to be honored, followed and fulfilled.
"Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 'The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.' (Matthew 23:1-3)" We clearly see in these verses that Jesus peace be upon him did not prohibit for the Old Testament to be followed, but only warned his followers to not follow it the way the current religious leaders of the Law (the Jewish Rabies) were following it.
So according to Jesus peace be upon him, the adulterer in the New Testament must be put to death.



but i guess u don't read or believe in bible or are u atheist??

john 8, 3 The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in adultery, and placing her in the midst 4 they said to him, “Teacher, this woman has been caught in the act of adultery. 5 Now in the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. So what do you say?”6 This they said to test him, that they might have some charge to bring against him. Jesus bent down and wrote with his finger on the ground.7 And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8 And once more he bent down and wrote on the ground. 9 But when they heard it, they went away one by one, beginning with the older ones, and Jesus was left alone with the woman standing before him. 10 Jesus stood up and said to her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?” 11 She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “Neither do I condemn you; go, and from now on sin no more.”]]

 

[GodTruth]

Koran 2:106 Nothing of our revelation (even a single verse) do we abrogate or cause be forgotten, but we bring (in place) one better or the like thereof.

So much for reliability of the text, if it can be changed or made to be forgotten and its ok how can there be any authenticity.

The result of such understanding of “abrogation” and verses being “forgotten” cannot be underestimated, as the sects have used such interpretation to serve their misunderstanding of various concepts/verses within the Quran to the extent of “changing” the laws of God that were never meant to be changed such as the example of “adultery” whereby the Quran states in 24:2 that the adulterer and adulteress are to be lashed 100 lashes each, however, using the laws of abrogation and forgetting, the sects have decided that “stoning” is a more suitable punishment if the adulterer is married, and have stated in their various writings that a Quranic verse on stoning was indeed revealed to the Prophet, but that such verse was destroyed and thus “forgotton” to be added to the verses of the Quran.

 

[PennEd]

@ All my Brothers and Sisters in Christ Jesus, STOP the attacks, STOP the hatred, this these kind of attacks on a non-believer will not win anybody over to Christ. What is the great commandment that Jesus gave to us? Love your neighbour, love your enemy, pray for your enemy, To our shame there are none-righteous, no not one. Be blessed and before one answer in this Thread, please pray about it first, ask for wisdom and guidance in answer, let us sound this spirit out first, before we offload, not for our sake, not for their sake but for Christ's name.

ugh!!! Can't tell you how much I despise the "if you disagree with someone and point out, especially with Scripture, that they are wrong and need to repent, that you HATE them" MANTRA, (we see this constantly with the homosexual issue). Why does disagreement and correction mean hatred!!!!???

 

[Osiyo]

@GodTruth, heaven bound => heading to heaven, on your way to heaven