The sabbath cults - making an idol of the sabbath.

[Larry_Stotle]

The sabbath was given to nation of Israel, the sabbath cults claim this was a creation ordinance which is highly debatable.

What is not debatable is the position of a Christian - dead the the Law:

(Gal 2:19 KJV) For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.


(Rom 7:4 KJV) Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

And just in case there is any confusion about which law a Christian is dead to Paul tells us exactly which Law he's speaking of:

(Rom 7:7 KJV)............for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

So clearly the law of Moses is in view when Paul states we are dead to it.

The sabbath cults claim "you Christians keep nine but omit the fourth" - that may be so but keeping the "nine" in itself is also a denial that a Christian is DEAD to the law.

Not one of these sabbath cults can explain how a Christan can be dead to the law and alive to it at the same time by attempting to keep it.

Neither can they explain how they can be married to Christ and Moses at the same time - ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another. This is either bigamy or adultery - take your pick.

(1 Tim 1:7 KJV) Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

(1 Tim 1:8 KJV) But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

(1 Tim 1:9 KJV) Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

The sabbath promoters are proclaiming themselves to be "lawless and disobedient".

The sabbath promoters are proclaiming that the "ministration of death" has now become the "ministration of life" in Christ.

(2 Cor 3:7 KJV) But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

(2 Cor 3:8 KJV) How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

(2 Cor 3:9 KJV) For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

(Gal 6:2 KJV) Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

 

[john832]

The sabbath was given to nation of Israel, the sabbath cults claim this was a creation ordinance which is highly debatable.

What is not debatable is the position of a Christian - dead the the Law:

(Gal 2:19 KJV) For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.


(Rom 7:4 KJV) Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

And just in case there is any confusion about which law a Christian is dead to Paul tells us exactly which Law he's speaking of:

(Rom 7:7 KJV)............for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

So clearly the law of Moses is in view when Paul states we are dead to it.

The sabbath cults claim "you Christians keep nine but omit the fourth" - that may be so but keeping the "nine" in itself is also a denial that a Christian is DEAD to the law.

Not one of these sabbath cults can explain how a Christan can be dead to the law and alive to it at the same time by attempting to keep it.

Neither can they explain how they can be married to Christ and Moses at the same time - ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another. This is either bigamy or adultery - take your pick.

(1 Tim 1:7 KJV) Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

(1 Tim 1:8 KJV) But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

(1 Tim 1:9 KJV) Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

The sabbath promoters are proclaiming themselves to be "lawless and disobedient".

The sabbath promoters are proclaiming that the "ministration of death" has now become the "ministration of life" in Christ.

(2 Cor 3:7 KJV) But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

(2 Cor 3:8 KJV) How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

(2 Cor 3:9 KJV) For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

(Gal 6:2 KJV) Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

Interesting, so since you are dead to the Law, you need not keep the Sabbath?

 

[Larry_Stotle]

Interesting, so since you are dead to the Law, you need not keep the Sabbath?

Are you dead to the law?

 

[john832]

Are you dead to the law?

How about the Law against murder? Would you say the same thing? It no longer applies because you are dead to it?

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

The Mosaic Law God had with the ancient nation of Israel under the old covenant had civil, ceremonial, and moral aspects to it and was replaced with the new covenant with the arrival, ministry, death, burial, resurrection, and ascension of the promised Messiah: Jesus Christ.

Obviously, God's morality does not change and is an extension of Himself but this does not extrapolate to old covenant civil and ceremonial codes to achieve justification before God. The prohibition against eating shellfish, for example, is no longer in force today nor is having to adhere to a Judaist Sabbath religious observance.

How about the Law against murder? Would you say the same thing? It no longer applies because you are dead to it?

 

[chubbena]

The sabbath was given to nation of Israel, the sabbath cults claim this was a creation ordinance which is highly debatable.

What is not debatable is the position of a Christian - dead the the Law:

(Gal 2:19 KJV) For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.


(Rom 7:4 KJV) Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

And just in case there is any confusion about which law a Christian is dead to Paul tells us exactly which Law he's speaking of:

(Rom 7:7 KJV)............for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

So clearly the law of Moses is in view when Paul states we are dead to it.

The sabbath cults claim "you Christians keep nine but omit the fourth" - that may be so but keeping the "nine" in itself is also a denial that a Christian is DEAD to the law.

Not one of these sabbath cults can explain how a Christan can be dead to the law and alive to it at the same time by attempting to keep it.

Neither can they explain how they can be married to Christ and Moses at the same time - ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another. This is either bigamy or adultery - take your pick.

(1 Tim 1:7 KJV) Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

(1 Tim 1:8 KJV) But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

(1 Tim 1:9 KJV) Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

The sabbath promoters are proclaiming themselves to be "lawless and disobedient".

The sabbath promoters are proclaiming that the "ministration of death" has now become the "ministration of life" in Christ.

(2 Cor 3:7 KJV) But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

(2 Cor 3:8 KJV) How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

(2 Cor 3:9 KJV) For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

(Gal 6:2 KJV) Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

So it's forbidden for a Christian, Jew or otherwise, to rest on the Sabbath or he's guilty of being legalistic?

 

[JesusLives]

The sabbath was given to nation of Israel, the sabbath cults claim this was a creation ordinance which is highly debatable.

What is not debatable is the position of a Christian - dead the the Law:

(Gal 2:19 KJV) For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.


(Rom 7:4 KJV) Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

And just in case there is any confusion about which law a Christian is dead to Paul tells us exactly which Law he's speaking of:

(Rom 7:7 KJV)............for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

So clearly the law of Moses is in view when Paul states we are dead to it.

The sabbath cults claim "you Christians keep nine but omit the fourth" - that may be so but keeping the "nine" in itself is also a denial that a Christian is DEAD to the law.

Not one of these sabbath cults can explain how a Christan can be dead to the law and alive to it at the same time by attempting to keep it.

Neither can they explain how they can be married to Christ and Moses at the same time - ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another. This is either bigamy or adultery - take your pick.

(1 Tim 1:7 KJV) Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

(1 Tim 1:8 KJV) But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

(1 Tim 1:9 KJV) Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

The sabbath promoters are proclaiming themselves to be "lawless and disobedient".

The sabbath promoters are proclaiming that the "ministration of death" has now become the "ministration of life" in Christ.

(2 Cor 3:7 KJV) But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

(2 Cor 3:8 KJV) How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

(2 Cor 3:9 KJV) For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

(Gal 6:2 KJV) Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

Don't kid yourself the Sabbath might not have been written in stone at creation, but God in person showed Adam and Eve how to celebrate the Sabbath when He rested the 7th day. He didn't have to write it down back at creation because they could walked and talked with God daily.

The Sabbath was not given to the Jews only but was given to all mankind to have a day of rest and reflection on the creator God and to move away from daily activities and spend special time with God. We are told in Isaiah toward the end of the book that from one new moon to another and one Sabbath day to another we will come and worship before the Lord and it is talking about this in heaven.

The Sabbath was at creation, it is also for us at the present and will be celebrated in the future with God who said Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy.

 

[Larry_Stotle]

So it's forbidden for a Christian, Jew or otherwise, to rest on the Sabbath or he's guilty of being legalistic?

It's not forbidden to rest on any day - I'll guarantee that those sabbath cults are "resting" 2 days a week and generally working five. Whereas the law stated on six days "do thy work".

But that is all besides the point - the law was given to Israel as a nation, they were required under the covenant to rest on the sabbath. But it all become a moot point when we read that the old covenant was ready to disappear:

(Heb 8:13 KJV) In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

 

[crossnote]

So it's forbidden for a Christian, Jew or otherwise, to rest on the Sabbath or he's guilty of being legalistic?

Where in Scripture does it say that? It becomes legalistic when it is forced on the Church just as forced dietary laws and clothing laws from the Mosaic code.
FORCED (be it mentally, socially or physically) is the operative word.

 

[oldthennew]

New Covenant, Jeremiah 31:31.

33.....I will put My Law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts,
and will be their God, and they shall be My People.

if you LOVE ME, KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS...

The Law of The Lord is perfect, converting the soul...

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

You're being infantile. In Christ, you have the freedom to rest on any day of the week and obviously, he is aware that Sabbath cults are proselyting legalistic error in the world today and refuting their legalistic error.

So it's forbidden for a Christian, Jew or otherwise, to rest on the Sabbath or he's guilty of being legalistic?

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Don't kid yourself. Jesus’ taking authority over the Sabbath both wrests it from the legal framework in which it previously stood and realizes the rest which God’s people were always intended to enjoy. In all three Synoptics, the subsequent miracle is an example of what Jesus’ lordship of the Sabbath will mean in practice: people delivered from the shadow of death and restored into the unblemished image of God.

The Sabbath only features in Paul’s writings negatively. For the Galatians to observe it as if they were still under the Mosaic Law rather than New Covenant moral law would be to descend into gospel-denying slavery (Gal. 4:9–11); for the Colossians to observe it as part of a syncretistic system would be equally fatal (Col. 2:16).

For the Mosaic Law belonged to an earlier era, and since the coming of Christ it is no longer binding (Col. 2:17). Even Sabbath observance ‘for the Lord’ was tolerated only for the sake of those whose faith was weak (Rom. 14:1–12). In short, those in Christ are beyond the jurisdiction of the Old Testament Mosaic Law which has been fulfilled in Jesus.

As God’s perfect human, Jesus lived the Sabbath day for God, releasing his fellow humans from bondage and striving for salvation under the law (e.g. Mosaic Law), bringing them into a new spiritual rebirth in which the moral law of God is written on their heart, bringing them into blessing, and at the last entering Himself into God’s rest.

Ultimately, as Lord of the Sabbath, Jesus made it possible for others to follow him into that rest. This means that the Christian’s task is no longer to keep the Sabbath (Jesus has done that already) as if they were still under the Mosaic Law but rather to believe in Christ and obey Him.

In its final setting, then, the fourth commandment is no longer a commandment for God’s people, but its intent remains. The ‘law of Christ’ anticipates rest by prescribing belief, but now rest has been realized and will have its fullest expression in the gathering of genuine Christians who will reign with the Lamb for ever in the new creation (Rev. 22:3–6).

Don't kid yourself the Sabbath might not have been written in stone at creation, but God in person showed Adam and Eve how to celebrate the Sabbath when He rested the 7th day. He didn't have to write it down back at creation because they could walked and talked with God daily.

The Sabbath was not given to the Jews only but was given to all mankind to have a day of rest and reflection on the creator God and to move away from daily activities and spend special time with God. We are told in Isaiah toward the end of the book that from one new moon to another and one Sabbath day to another we will come and worship before the Lord and it is talking about this in heaven.

The Sabbath was at creation, it is also for us at the present and will be celebrated in the future with God who said Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy.

 

[JesusLives]

Where in Scripture does it say that? It becomes legalistic when it is forced on the Church just as forced dietary laws and clothing laws from the Mosaic code.
FORCED (be it mentally, socially or physically) is the operative word.

So when did good become bad? You say to observe or stand up for the laws are legalistic, so were they legalistic when God gave them to Moses? Most of the time when God asked us to do something and I include the 10 commandments with this - these laws were for our own good.

The Sabbath was given as a special day that was blessed, hallowed, a sign between us and God and a time to rest and come and spend quality time with our creator God. The food laws were given for health purposes, and God asked us to dress modestly. All of these laws including the 10 were given from God to us out of love and if we observe them the 10 for sure it shows our love to God and our fellow man.

So how is it bad to eat healthy, to not murder, to not lie , not steal, not commit adultery, to obey our parents, to love God with all our hearts, not to put an idol before God, dress modestly, not swear, not covet what our neighbors have? And how does this become legalistic to not want to do these bad things toward others and to honor God and Remember His Sabbath day like He asked us to? So again I ask when did good become bad and legalistic?

 

[JesusLives]

Don't kid yourself. Jesus’ taking authority over the Sabbath both wrests it from the legal framework in which it previously stood and realizes the rest which God’s people were always intended to enjoy. In all three Synoptics, the subsequent miracle is an example of what Jesus’ lordship of the Sabbath will mean in practice: people delivered from the shadow of death and restored into the unblemished image of God.

The Sabbath only features in Paul’s writings negatively. For the Galatians to observe it as if they were still under the Mosaic Law rather than New Covenant moral law would be to descend into gospel-denying slavery (Gal. 4:9–11); for the Colossians to observe it as part of a syncretistic system would be equally fatal (Col. 2:16).

For the Mosaic Law belonged to an earlier era, and since the coming of Christ it is no longer binding (Col. 2:17). Even Sabbath observance ‘for the Lord’ was tolerated only for the sake of those whose faith was weak (Rom. 14:1–12). In short, those in Christ are beyond the jurisdiction of the Old Testament Mosaic Law which has been fulfilled in Jesus.

As God’s perfect human, Jesus lived the Sabbath day for God, releasing his fellow humans from bondage and striving for salvation under the law (e.g. Mosaic Law), bringing them into a new spiritual rebirth in which the moral law of God is written on their heart, bringing them into blessing, and at the last entering Himself into God’s rest.

Ultimately, as Lord of the Sabbath, Jesus made it possible for others to follow him into that rest. This means that the Christian’s task is no longer to keep the Sabbath (Jesus has done that already) as if they were still under the Mosaic Law but rather to believe in Christ and obey Him.

In its final setting, then, the fourth commandment is no longer a commandment for God’s people, but its intent remains. The ‘law of Christ’ anticipates rest by prescribing belief, but now rest has been realized and will have its fullest expression in the gathering of genuine Christians who will reign with the Lamb for ever in the new creation (Rev. 22:3–6).

Jesus is Lord also of the Sabbath and Psalm 119 is mostly about His law. It pains me that so many people want to toss it out. Jesus came to fulfill not to destroy and He did for us what we can't do for ourselves, but He did not throw it out/away.

 

[john832]

You're being infantile. In Christ, you have the freedom to rest on any day of the week and obviously, he is aware that Sabbath cults are proselyting legalistic error in the world today and refuting their legalistic error.

You have the right to interpret His Laws any way you wish?

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

 

[john832]

It's not forbidden to rest on any day - I'll guarantee that those sabbath cults are "resting" 2 days a week and generally working five. Whereas the law stated on six days "do thy work".

But that is all besides the point - the law was given to Israel as a nation, they were required under the covenant to rest on the sabbath. But it all become a moot point when we read that the old covenant was ready to disappear:

(Heb 8:13 KJV) In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Hmmm, and then we read this...

Isa 56:3 Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.
Isa 56:4 For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
Isa 56:5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.
Isa 56:6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;
Isa 56:7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

stranger:

H5236
נכר
nêkâr
nay-kawr'
From H5234; foreign, or (concretely) a foreigner, or (abstractly) heathendom: - alien, strange (+ -er).

A Gentile.

And then there is this...

Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

Hmmm, doesn't say "Jewish flesh", it says "ALL flesh".

 

[john832]

Where in Scripture does it say that? It becomes legalistic when it is forced on the Church just as forced dietary laws and clothing laws from the Mosaic code.
FORCED (be it mentally, socially or physically) is the operative word.

the scripture doesn't say that, but some people do.

 

[john832]

The Mosaic Law God had with the ancient nation of Israel under the old covenant had civil, ceremonial, and moral aspects to it and was replaced with the new covenant with the arrival, ministry, death, burial, resurrection, and ascension of the promised Messiah: Jesus Christ.

Answer me this, whom do you think spoke the Law on Mt. Sinai?

Obviously, God's morality does not change and is an extension of Himself but this does not extrapolate to old covenant civil and ceremonial codes to achieve justification before God. The prohibition against eating shellfish, for example, is no longer in force today nor is having to adhere to a Judaist Sabbath religious observance.

Well it must change, because you believe one of the Ten Commandments that God wrote with His own finger is done away...

Exo 31:18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.

 

[oldthennew]

MATTTHEW 5:17-18-19.

Think not that I Am come to destroy the Law, or the prophets; I Am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

For verily I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the Law,
till all be fulfilled.

Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least Commandments, and shall teach men so,
he shall be called the least in The Kingdom of Heaven:
but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven....

 

[john832]

MATTTHEW 5:17-18-19.

Think not that I Am come to destroy the Law, or the prophets; I Am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

For verily I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the Law,
till all be fulfilled.

Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least Commandments, and shall teach men so,
he shall be called the least in The Kingdom of Heaven:
but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven....

oldthennew you nailed it...

So and is all fulfilled? Has Christ returned? Has the Millenium been established? Is it over? Has teh GWTJ taken place? How about...

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

I gotta go with Christ on this one.