God Vs. Moses-THE TRUTH PART 3!!

[Truth2010]

Ok, now that we have WHO gave the laws cleared up, let's see what the Bible says about both of them.

Moses' Law consisted of shadows that were to be fulfilled by Jesus..."shadows of things to come." This phrase is ONLY used when referencing to the feast days that were written in the law of Moses...

"For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. 3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins." Hebrews10:1

The mosaic law consisted of sacraficing yearly... The Commandments did not... Remember, in the previous thread, it said that God added NO MORE to the 10..

"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ." Col 2:16-17

Mosaic law consisted of holy days, sabbath days (in regards to feast days, not the 7th day Sabbath), meat and drink restrictions, New moons, etc...

Everything regarding feast days, Christ has fulfilled them and still is fulfilling them..

 

[MahogonySnail]

Ok, now that we have WHO gave the laws cleared up, let's see what the Bible says about both of them.

Now that you know who gave the laws, I think you need to make clear who the laws were given to. The Israelites.

Mosaic law consisted of holy days, sabbath days (in regards to feast days, not the 7th day Sabbath), meat and drink restrictions, New moons, etc...

I don't think you can divide God's Law like that. It's meant to be taken as a whole. You either obey the whole of Exodus, or you don't.

 

[Truth2010]

Now that you know who gave the laws, I think you need to make clear who the laws were given to. The Israelites.




I don't think you can divide God's Law like that. It's meant to be taken as a whole. You either obey the whole of Exodus, or you don't.

But you see.. this is where you are in error.. what YOU say is not consistent with scriptures.. let me list em for ya.. because according to the Bible, we are to keep the commandments..But maybe you are reading something different.

"And, behold, one came and said to him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said to him, Why call you me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if you will enter into life, keep the commandments. 18 He said to him, Which? Jesus said, You shall do no murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, 19 Honor your father and your mother: and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself." Matt 19:16-19

"Whoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." Matt 5:19-20 Do you want to be called LEAST in the kingdom of heaven?

"And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." 1 John2:3-4 Do you claim to know God? well if you are not keeping the commandments, then the Bible just said you are a liar..no truth in you..

"(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified" Romans 2:13

I can go all day long with the scriptures..either you will aknowledge them or ignore them.. You speak differently than what God says..

 

[MahogonySnail]

It's one thing to quote scripture, it's another thing to quote it in context and understand it.

Re: Matthew, Jesus was speaking to Jews.

Re 1 John 2:3-4, which part of "God's law written on our hearts" , God's grace, dying to sin and new life in Christ...do you not understand?

Re: Rom 2:13: , read a little further, see Rom 2:29.

Rom 2:29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly, and circumcision is of the heart; in spirit and not in letter; whose praise is not from men, but from God.

 

[Truth2010]

It's one thing to quote scripture, it's another thing to quote it in context and understand it.

Re: Matthew, Jesus was speaking to Jews.

Re 1 John 2:3-4, which part of "God's law written on our hearts" , God's grace, dying to sin and new life in Christ...do you not understand?

Re: Rom 2:13: , read a little further, see Rom 2:29.

Rom 2:29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly, and circumcision is of the heart; in spirit and not in letter; whose praise is not from men, but from God.

In which law were they commanded to be circumcised? Certaintly not in the 10 commandments! It was in the Law of Moses.. which is what Paul was referencing to here in this verse WHICH has been nailed to the cross.. you need to know the diff between the 2 laws.. Which you twisted. I see that you ignored (which I am not surprised) the verse I gave that stated that the RIGHTEOUS are the ones that obey the commandments.. Because you cannot refute that.. It says what it says..

Show what you claim, in the Bible, about that law that you gave that is written in our hearts...I dont understand if it is coming from you (which it is) .. God is the truth and every man is a lie! Show me what you claim...

As far as Jesus speaking to the Jews, if God felt like it was good enough for them, then why wouldnt it be good enough for us? Are we not judged by the same word? Jesus did not specify who He was speaking to when He spoke it. I go by everything that Jesus commanded during His ministry hear on earth.. You are supposed to too.. Jew or not.

 

[MahogonySnail]

The law of Moses , the Torah, includes the 10 commandments, includes the moral law.

Ten Commandments is the covenant between God and the Israelites. Not Gentiles.

Any Jew will tell you that.

Unless God made such a covenant between with the ancient Germanic tribes (my ancestry) then I'm not obliged to follow them.

 

[Truth2010]

The law of Moses , the Torah, includes the 10 commandments, includes the moral law.

Ten Commandments is the covenant between God and the Israelites. Not Gentiles.

Any Jew will tell you that.

Unless God made such a covenant between with the ancient Germanic tribes (my ancestry) then I'm not obliged to follow them.

"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children." Hosea 4:6

You dont make ANY sense with what you are saying. Jesus said that we are to keep the law, the WHOLE Bible says it.. but you say otherwise.

Again, your blood be upon your own head.

 

[MahogonySnail]

Good job at quoting from Hosea, again, directed towards the Israelites, not Gentiles.

The only blood upon my head is Christ's I'm afraid .

If you want to keep the whole law looks like you'll have to pick up those stones and stone me as the Law says to do .

 

[Truth2010]

Good job at quoting from Hosea, again, directed towards the Israelites, not Gentiles.

The only blood upon my head is Christ's I'm afraid .

If you want to keep the whole law looks like you'll have to pick up those stones and stone me as the Law says to do .

The 10 commandments say nothing about stoning.. Please read them. They are in Exodus 20.

 

[MahogonySnail]

What about

Exo 31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

Which is in the same book of the bible.

every jot and tittle..remember. You can't isolate the 10 commandments out and ignore the rest.

 

[Truth2010]

I guess all the scriptures are directed to Israel that you don't agree with? What about this one?

"And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." Rev 12:17

Or this one?

"Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus." Rev 14: 12...Saints are commandment keepers..according to this verse...

Or what about this one Mahogony?

"Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city." Rev 22:14

I made sure these didnt say anything about Jews or Israelites..These were written well after Jesus died. Again, Mahogony, all jokes and sarcasm aside..Please do not be stubborn and study these things for yourself..These things are a matter of life and death.. You can see that clearly in just these 3 verses! The saints are defined as those that keep the commandments of God AND have faith in Jesus. I hope those help.. seriously.. I am going ot bed. Nite and I will respond tomorrow if the Lord wakes me up. Ciao and sincerely, God Bless!!!

 

[Truth2010]

What about

Exo 31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

Which is in the same book of the bible.

every jot and tittle..remember. You can't isolate the 10 commandments out and ignore the rest.

Mahogony... that was not given when GOD spoke the commandments.. Stop twisting the word of God.. That was in accordance, again with Moses.. Which commandment out of the 10 Commandments, did it say.. STONE? It is not there.. Sorry for being so vague.. the 10 commandments are Ex 20:1-17. Read them again and let me know which one says stone..

Which are you going to stick to? The one jot or tittle verse supports what I am trying to tell you.. but you use it to prove your point? Which is it?

 

[MahogonySnail]

And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." Rev 12:17

Or this one?

"Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus." Rev 14: 12...Saints are commandment keepers..according to this verse...

Or what about this one Mahogony?

"Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city." Rev 22:14

Has it ever occurred to you that the commandments spoken of here might be the ones which Christ had previously communicated to the church in the rest of Revelations? i.e. about keeping the faith, overcoming the beast, Jezebel, etc? What makes you think that every time the word "commandment" comes up in scripture, it means Torah?

Mahogony... that was not given when GOD spoke the commandments.. Stop twisting the word of God.. That was in accordance, again with Moses.. Which commandment out of the 10 Commandments, did it say.. STONE? It is not there.. Sorry for being so vague.. the 10 commandments are Ex 20:1-17. Read them again and let me know which one says stone..

I quoted from Exodus 31, same book, same Law of Moses as the 10 commandments were part of. I don't keep the Sabbath, so going by the Law which you say we should keep, you need to stone me. Afterall, whats the point of having the law if there is no consequences for not obeying it?

If you were an Israelite in this time period and taught and believed in separating the 10 commandments from the rest of Exodus as you are doing here, you probably would have been cast out of God's people at the very least, or at worst, been sentenced to death by stoning. And if you were a Gentile, and broke the laws they probably wouldn't even have cared, a the Law was given to the Israelites not Gentiles.

 

[Truth2010]

Has it ever occurred to you that the commandments spoken of here might be the ones which Christ had previously communicated to the church in the rest of Revelations? i.e. about keeping the faith, overcoming the beast, Jezebel, etc? What makes you think that every time the word "commandment" comes up in scripture, it means Torah?






I quoted from Exodus 31, same book, same Law of Moses as the 10 commandments were part of. I don't keep the Sabbath, so going by the Law which you say we should keep, you need to stone me. Afterall, whats the point of having the law if there is no consequences for not obeying it?

If you were an Israelite in this time period and taught and believed in separating the 10 commandments from the rest of Exodus as you are doing here, you probably would have been cast out of God's people at the very least, or at worst, been sentenced to death by stoning. And if you were a Gentile, and broke the laws they probably wouldn't even have cared, a the Law was given to the Israelites not Gentiles.

In the thread part 4 of this, you will see that there is a distinction between the 2 laws... Moses' law was the law with curses.. The 10 were called the law of liberty because they freed you from sin..Read Thread number 4.

The law of God written on stone; law of moses was written in a book...The law of God was inside the ark, the book of moses was outside the ark.. They were in separate desitinations because they were separate laws.

""These words the LORD spoke to all your assembly at the mountain from the midst of the fire, of the cloud and of the thick gloom, with a great voice, and He added no more. He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me." Deut 5:22. God added no more to the commandments.. so the stoning part is not part of the 10.. Hence the name 10 Commandments.

You are making this way harder than it is..Its very simple M. Christians keep the 10 commandments. Period.. Too many scriptures that say so.. I hope you get it..

 

[MahogonySnail]

Sorry, but only old-covenant Israelites keep the 10 commandments. Not christians.

The "law of liberty", is not the 10 commandments, the 10 commandments are part of the Law of Moses as any Jew would tell you, as a covenant between them and God.

This is what Gill says about the 'law of liberty':

By which is meant, not the moral law, but the Gospel; for only of that is the apostle speaking in the context: this is no other than the word of truth, with which God begets men of his own will; and is the ingrafted word which is able to save, and of which men should be doers, as well as hearers,

 

[Truth2010]

Sorry, but only old-covenant Israelites keep the 10 commandments. Not christians.

The "law of liberty", is not the 10 commandments, the 10 commandments are part of the Law of Moses as any Jew would tell you, as a covenant between them and God.

This is what Gill says about the 'law of liberty':

By which is meant, not the moral law, but the Gospel; for only of that is the apostle speaking in the context: this is no other than the word of truth, with which God begets men of his own will; and is the ingrafted word which is able to save, and of which men should be doers, as well as hearers,

GILL??!?! Who is that? Am I supposed to take his word over the word of God? Did he write one of the Books in the Bible? Then who cares what he says.. Every man is a lie-The word is the truth. Do not decieve yourself.

The commandments are the law of liberty according to the BIBLE, not Gill maybe, but I dont serve him...

"For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty." James 2:10-12

Those 2 laws mentioned in this scripture, are written in the 10 Commandments which is called LAW OF LIBERTY in the 12th verse...