The rapture?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,363
185
63
#41
Yeah... they are even told to run for the mountains.......... How would THAT particular location hide you from God?
What do you mean, hide from God? The church is being led to a place where they are protected from the Devil.
 
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
#42
What do you mean, hide from God? The church is being led to a place where they are protected from the Devil.
If people think God is ending the world with all that violence...... they aren't talking about the devil getting mad.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#43
Yeah... they are even told to run for the mountains.......... How would THAT particular location hide you from God?
Not to worry as that is talking about Israel not the church. The church is already safe with Christ. This always happens when prophecy given to Israel is misapplied to the church.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,363
185
63
#44
If people think God is ending the world with all that violence...... they aren't talking about the devil getting mad.
I wasn't following what you were thinking, but if what you mean is the end of the world, it really is not. It is the transition of the
world ruled by Satan to the world ruled by Christ (the Millennium).
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,363
185
63
#45
Not to worry as that is talking about Israel not the church. The church is already safe with Christ. This always happens when prophecy given to Israel is misapplied to the church.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Misapplied?

Do the Jews have this?

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

The remnant of the group that did not go, has the testimony of Christ. Would you go to the Jews to find that?
 
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
#46
I wasn't following what you were thinking, but if what you mean is the end of the world, it really is not. It is the transition of the
world ruled by Satan to the world ruled by Christ (the Millennium).
I'm not able to follow, sorry. I still believe what John said when he said he was kind of off in vision land, and I just can't go assigning all sorts of things to what he wrote, as though Revelation was some sort of crystal ball to play with.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
63
#47
Once again I thank so much dear brother for your patient reply. Let us be be prepared as a Virgin with oil in the lamp.If The Lord chooses us to stay here during tribulation I am sure He will see us through it
I am not aware of a promise of protection. I am aware of quite the opposite from Jesus' own mouth.

Mat 24:

[SUP]9 [/SUP]“Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake.

But the Holy Spirit will work in us and tells us what to say.

Mark 13:

[SUP]11 [/SUP]But when they arrest you and deliver you up, do not worry beforehand, or premeditate what you will speak. But whatever is given you in that hour, speak that; for it is not you who speak, but the Holy Spirit. [SUP]12 [/SUP]Now brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death.

I pray that we will remain strong to the faith and not "love our lives" more than our Savior. We must endure persecution and tribulation.

Rev 12:

[SUP]11 [/SUP]And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death.

We are told that it is an honor to suffer for our faith.

[SUP]4 [/SUP]so that we ourselves boast of you among the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that you endure, [SUP]5 [/SUP]which is manifest evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer;

May we all be counted worthy of this Satanic Tribulation which is coming, and may we stand firm. If we are killed, we go to heaven and God will avenge us.

Rev 6:

“How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?”
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
63
#48
Actually, this is not referring to the resurrection, it is referring to the church fleeing to a Place of Safety on earth...

Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
Rev 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
Rev 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

Notice, Noah (and his family) went into the ark and survived the flood. Lot fled to Zoar and was spared the destruction of Sodom, Gomorrah and the surrounds.

Now carefully notice what is said here...

Luk 17:31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.

When we see Christ returning (like lightning shining from East to West) after all the devastation of 2-1/2 years of Tribulation and the Day of the Lord (the Trumpet Plagues) about the last thought that would cross your mind is to run back into the house and grab a change of underwear and a toothbrush but, if one were going to flee to a place of safety on earth just prior to the beginning of the Great tribulation, then some amenities would look quite inviting.

Luk 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.

They were fleeing for their lives and Mrs. Lot looked longingly back at the society she was leaving, her house, her garden, her friends and all that was involved in the society she was leaving behind.
Not the church, Israel. It is Israel who is in Judea.

Mat 24: [SUP]16 [/SUP]“then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
63
#49
Yeah... they are even told to run for the mountains.......... How would THAT particular location hide you from God?
It is not God that the Jews are told to hide from, it's the Man of Sin. The Great Tribulation is of Satan. The wrath of God comes after it and in response to it as we are told in Rev 16 and 2 Thes 1 as well as many other places, Dan 7 too.
 
Jan 31, 2015
61
0
6
#50
Revelation 20:4,5 says

Then I saw the souls of those beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished . This is the first resurrection


From the above verses we see that only those who were beheaded for not worshiping the beast were raised back. THE REST OF THE DEAD did not live again till the thousand years were finished

Does this mean that the believers who had died in Christ and the martyrs of former generations will not partake of the millennial reign?
 
E

Enga

Guest
#51
Revelation 20:4,5 says

Then I saw the souls of those beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished . This is the first resurrection


From the above verses we see that only those who were beheaded for not worshiping the beast were raised back. THE REST OF THE DEAD did not live again till the thousand years were finished

Does this mean that the believers who had died in Christ and the martyrs of former generations will not partake of the millennial reign?
The first rapture took place during the time of Jesus and the second will not be rapture but we will die on the hands of the people but before that we have to receive the Holy Spirit before dying.
We also cannot understand Revelation unless we receive the Holy Spirit.
 
Jan 31, 2015
61
0
6
#52
OR does Revelation 20:4,5 mean that the first resurrection( the resurrection before millennial reign) happens in phases

Phase 1:

1Thess 4:16,17 : For The Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout with the voice of an archangel and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet The Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with The Lord

Phase 2:

Behold I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed. In a moment, in a twinkling of an eye, at the LAST TRUMPET. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible and we shall be changed (those who were martyred by the beast and those who survived)
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,363
185
63
#53
Not the church, Israel. It is Israel who is in Judea.

Mat 24: [SUP]16 [/SUP]“then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.
And you don't think god could gather the church to Judea? Too much for Him?
 
Dec 26, 2014
3,757
19
0
#54
Misapplied?

Do the Jews have this?

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

The remnant of the group that did not go, has the testimony of Christ. Would you go to the Jews to find that?
this thread is almost too complicated (by man) to remedy but a part.

man's "church" is not going to be saved or helped or fixed or anything but come to an end.

And you don't think god could gather the church to Judea? Too much for Him?
simply not his plan. man's church doesn't think so either....

man's church gets summed up all right, but not in yahshua...
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
63
#55
And you don't think god could gather the church to Judea? Too much for Him?
There is no scriptural support that I am aware of where God gathers the church to Judea prior to the Abomination being set up.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
63
#56
Revelation 20:4,5 says

Then I saw the souls of those beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished . This is the first resurrection


From the above verses we see that only those who were beheaded for not worshiping the beast were raised back. THE REST OF THE DEAD did not live again till the thousand years were finished

Does this mean that the believers who had died in Christ and the martyrs of former generations will not partake of the millennial reign?
This is how I see it too.

1. Satan's Great Tribulation
2. God's Wrath
3. Return of Christ with beheaded martyrs
4. Armegeddon
5. Millennial reign
6. Satan Loosed
7. God's return with all other dead saints
 
Jan 31, 2015
61
0
6
#57
Brother, do you mean to say Peter James John Paul , all the Lords apostles will not partake of the millennial reign?
 
Jan 31, 2015
61
0
6
#58
In Philippians 3:1 Paul says
If by any means I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.

Of course every single soul will be risen after the millennial reign.

Then why is Paul striving to attain to the resurrection from the dead. It is obviously to partake in the first ressurection
 
Jan 31, 2015
61
0
6
#59
The church is the body of Christ. It is composed of all true believers of the New Testament age.

Ephesians 5:27 says that Christ will present the church to Himself as a glorious church not having spot or wrinkle but holy and without blemish

Christ will reign over the earth for a thousand years with the church.

In Nebuchadnezzar's dream the golden head represented the babylon reign, the chest, the legs and the toes represent various kingdoms which ruled the earth down through history.

But finally the rock uncut by hand comes and breaks all the earthly kingdoms and fills the earth. That is Christ coming and ruling this earth for a thousand years with His church. This Kingdom of God was anticipated by every believer from the time Lord Jesus came to earth. And we pray in The Lord's Prayer "Let Your Kingdom come"
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,363
185
63
#60
Hepsibah, you show considerable understanding.