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Thread: Word of Faith: "Metaphysical" "Gnostic" "Cultic" "Not really Christian"-Justin Peters

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    1still_waters
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    Default Word of Faith: "Metaphysical" "Gnostic" "Cultic" "Not really Christian"-Justin Peters

    Of the Word of Faith Movement, Justin Peters calls it "metaphysical cults", "new age", "Christian Science", "Some Kabbalah", "gnostic","cultic","not really Christian", "The Secret is like Word of Faith doctrine".

    This video is a condensed version of a three part series he does titled A Call For Discernment. I posted the full three part series below this post.



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgFYtglyjIo
    Last edited by 1still_waters; June 13th, 2014 at 08:52 PM.
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    1still_waters
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    Default Re: Word of Faith: "Metaphysical" "Gnostic" "Cultic" "Not really Christian"-Justin Pe

    Call For Discernment Full Presentation Part 1 - Justin Peters


    A Call for Discernment Session 1 - Dangerous Doctrine - YouTube
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    1still_waters
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    Default Re: Word of Faith: "Metaphysical" "Gnostic" "Cultic" "Not really Christian"-Justin Pe

    Call For Discernment Full Presentation Part 2 - Justin Peters


    A Call for Discernment Session 2 - Mangled Manifestations - YouTube
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    1still_waters
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    Default Re: Word of Faith: "Metaphysical" "Gnostic" "Cultic" "Not really Christian"-Justin Pe

    Call For Discernment Full Presentation Part 3 - Justin Peters



    A Call for Discernment Session 3 - The Hurt of Healing - YouTube
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    Default Re: Word of Faith: "Metaphysical" "Gnostic" "Cultic" "Not really Christian"-Justin Pe

    I´m going to download it (50 min long).

    Thanks!

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    Senior Member posthuman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Word of Faith: "Metaphysical" "Gnostic" "Cultic" "Not really Christian"-Justin Pe

    i've only watched the first two so far -- some real creepiness in the clips he shows

    thanks for posting

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    RachelBibleStudent
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    Default Re: Word of Faith: "Metaphysical" "Gnostic" "Cultic" "Not really Christian"-Justin Pe

    the funny thing about these 'discernment ministries' is that they are mostly characterized by a -lack- of discernment...in general they don't seem to have done their homework and prefer to substitute shrillness for accuracy and fairness...a perfect example is the 'kundalini warning' video that anyone with even a cursory familiarity with eastern kundalini tradition just laughs at...

    do i agree with 'word of faith' teaching? no...but i don't think the attempts to provoke panic through over the top accusations and comparisons are either discerning or useful...if anything i would say that engaging in the christian equivalent of tabloid 'journalism' only hurts their credibility with those who actually choose to be knowledgeable instead of reactionary...

    word of faith teaching has doctrinal issues that can and should be addressed and corrected in a calm and reasonable way...and that possibility is pretty much shut down when these 'discernment ministers' blunder into the theological analog of godwin's law...
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    1still_waters
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    Default Re: Word of Faith: "Metaphysical" "Gnostic" "Cultic" "Not really Christian"-Justin Pe

    Quote Originally Posted by RachelBibleStudent View Post
    the funny thing about these 'discernment ministries' is that they are mostly characterized by a -lack- of discernment...in general they don't seem to have done their homework and prefer to substitute shrillness for accuracy and fairness...a perfect example is the 'kundalini warning' video that anyone with even a cursory familiarity with eastern kundalini tradition just laughs at...

    do i agree with 'word of faith' teaching? no...but i don't think the attempts to provoke panic through over the top accusations and comparisons are either discerning or useful...if anything i would say that engaging in the christian equivalent of tabloid 'journalism' only hurts their credibility with those who actually choose to be knowledgeable instead of reactionary...

    word of faith teaching has doctrinal issues that can and should be addressed and corrected in a calm and reasonable way...and that possibility is pretty much shut down when these 'discernment ministers' blunder into the theological analog of godwin's law...
    This guy is very calm and reasonable. He provides real clips, then addresses the errors with scripture.
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    Default Re: Word of Faith: "Metaphysical" "Gnostic" "Cultic" "Not really Christian"-Justin Pe

    Word of faith, people, is works based. Just like all other religions. If you keep confessing this or that then you will get what you are confessing. Don't mention sin or even talk about it because that is a bad confession.

    They take a little truth ( and is true that our tongue gets us in trouble) and go ten extra miles with it. The old timers call it name it and claim it. You had people going to car lots and laying hands on a Mercedes claiming it in Jesus name. It died out.

    Then Kenneth Hagin revived it, twisted it a little and called it word of faith. BY His own words " we need to quit preaching the cross. we have too many cross preachers and that's why they mad all the time. because their cross. We need to get past the cross and rise up to seated at the right hand of the Father".

    There is nothing but the cross and the only thing we can stand on. And the cross makes me happy.
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  10. #10
    RachelBibleStudent
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    Default Re: Word of Faith: "Metaphysical" "Gnostic" "Cultic" "Not really Christian"-Justin Pe

    Quote Originally Posted by 1still_waters View Post
    This guy is very calm and reasonable. He provides real clips, then addresses the errors with scripture.
    it is possible for a person's demeanor to be calm but their rhetoric to still be extreme...

    the 'mangled manifestations' session in particular is more or less an exercise in guilt by association...did he actually bother polling all 'word of faith' adherents to see how they viewed those things? and the whole shallow 'this is weird...it must be demons!' attitude is just as unjustified as any end time conspiracy theory that sees the 'new world order' lurking behind every geopolitical corner...

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    Senior Member posthuman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Word of Faith: "Metaphysical" "Gnostic" "Cultic" "Not really Christian"-Justin Pe

    i started watching some of the 'strange fire' conferences, but there is just sooo much video..

    this, being 3-4 hours in total is more palatable to me, and seems like a condensed version of the same message.

    the point Rachel makes - i didn't think about while watching, but you're right, there's a lot of 'sensational' clips that this teacher is letting 'speak for themselves.' just look at my first reaction after watching 2.5 hours of it - "wow lots of creepiness" -- probably influenced by posting a reply immediately after 45 mins of 'the worst of Benny Hinn' haha

    he said at one point that for the sake of brevity, he wasn't going to address doctrinal issues about speaking in tongues or the persistence of gifts, only demonstrating the misapplication in the videos he shows.
    i think that his method has some value, and admit it also lacks in other respects. i'm telling myself that he's aiming at an audience that doesn't realize the reality of some of the more fringe behavior in this 'word of faith' gig, and providing some basic knowledge that is enough to urge people to call real believers out of false teaching.

    so.. is anyone familiar with the bulk of the 'strange fire' conferences? are the doctrinal issues addressed? can i get pointed at something deeper than the freak show?

    i appreciate these vids, and i appreciate the criticism of them too.

  12. #12
    RachelBibleStudent
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    Default Re: Word of Faith: "Metaphysical" "Gnostic" "Cultic" "Not really Christian"-Justin Pe

    i suppose i should expand on my last comment about the 'all weird stuff is demons' attitude i mentioned at the end of my last post...

    while it doesn't really consume a whole lot of the sessions in terms of time spent addressing it...i think in actuality this notion is what provides most of the rhetorical force behind the conclusions and accusations in 'a call for discernment' and 'strange fire' and so on...

    driven mostly by sensational footage...this mindset seems to have become common in certain circles...it has been said that you can recognize how much a person has been influenced by the macarthurites by how long it takes for them to bring up demons in a discussion about charismatic 'manifestations'...

    i think the effectiveness of the 'freak show' approach...as posthuman just called it...ironically comes from its superficiality...

    people look at these clips and think...wow that is like something out of 'the exorcist'...'the exorcist' being what most people have been trained to think of when they picture demonic activity...

    but i for one have looked at many of these same kinds of clips and seen nothing more than lots of examples of -bad acting-

    for example...there is a clip that gets shown in the bible study room every once in a while of benny hinn getting lots of people 'slain in the spirit' one after another... the fact is that this clip is full of telltale signs of -bad acting-...such as a person whose motor control has supposedly been taken over by a supernatural influence instinctively putting out his arms and -breaking his fall-

    those in the 'it must be demons!' camp are simply allowing themselves to be manipulated by entirely human and quite honestly not very convincing trickery...

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    Default Re: Word of Faith: "Metaphysical" "Gnostic" "Cultic" "Not really Christian"-Justin Pe

    I'm going to stop right there. The Word of God is clear.
    Mark 4

    38
    And he was in the hinder part of the ship, asleep on a pillow: and they awake him, and say unto him, Master, carest thou not that we perish? 39And he arose, and rebuked the wind, and said unto the sea, Peace, be still. And the wind ceased, and there was a great calm. 40And he said unto them, Why are ye so fearful? how is it that ye have no faith? 41And they feared exceedingly, and said one to another, What manner of man is this, that even the wind and the sea obey him?
    John 14
    11Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake. 12Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. 13And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
    Luke 17
    5And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our faith. 6And the Lord said, If ye had faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye might say unto this sycamine tree, Be thou plucked up by the root, and be thou planted in the sea; and it should obey you.

    Jesus
    does miracles people. It does happen. I'm not saying that you control the weather. 1 John 5:14 Now this is the confidence that we have in Him, that if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us.

    Somebody please explain if I am missing something.

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    Default Re: Word of Faith: "Metaphysical" "Gnostic" "Cultic" "Not really Christian"-Justin Pe

    Quote Originally Posted by 1still_waters View Post
    Of the Word of Faith Movement, Justin Peters calls it "metaphysical cults", "new age", "Christian Science", "Some Kabbalah", "gnostic","cultic","not really Christian", "The Secret is like Word of Faith doctrine".

    This video is a condensed version of a three part series he does titled A Call For Discernment. I posted the full three part series below this post.



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgFYtglyjIo
    Justin Peters is as deceptive as those he judges. He is grinding an axe. What he wont talk about is that he himself was once a very strong believer in WOF until he could not get healed. He is confined to a wheel chair and has Cerebral Palsey.

    He has a ministry of delusions and not discernment, because discernment implies having wisdom, and Mr. Peter' is just an angry person with no wisdom.

    He is not better than some of those he rallies against.
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    Default Re: Word of Faith: "Metaphysical" "Gnostic" "Cultic" "Not really Christian"-Justin Pe

    Jesus had the ultimate Word of Faith ministry peeps.....
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    Default Re: Word of Faith: "Metaphysical" "Gnostic" "Cultic" "Not really Christian"-Justin Pe

    Quote Originally Posted by RachelBibleStudent View Post
    i suppose i should expand on my last comment about the 'all weird stuff is demons' attitude i mentioned at the end of my last post...

    while it doesn't really consume a whole lot of the sessions in terms of time spent addressing it...i think in actuality this notion is what provides most of the rhetorical force behind the conclusions and accusations in 'a call for discernment' and 'strange fire' and so on...

    driven mostly by sensational footage...this mindset seems to have become common in certain circles...it has been said that you can recognize how much a person has been influenced by the macarthurites by how long it takes for them to bring up demons in a discussion about charismatic 'manifestations'...

    i think the effectiveness of the 'freak show' approach...as posthuman just called it...ironically comes from its superficiality...

    people look at these clips and think...wow that is like something out of 'the exorcist'...'the exorcist' being what most people have been trained to think of when they picture demonic activity...

    but i for one have looked at many of these same kinds of clips and seen nothing more than lots of examples of -bad acting-

    for example...there is a clip that gets shown in the bible study room every once in a while of benny hinn getting lots of people 'slain in the spirit' one after another... the fact is that this clip is full of telltale signs of -bad acting-...such as a person whose motor control has supposedly been taken over by a supernatural influence instinctively putting out his arms and -breaking his fall-

    those in the 'it must be demons!' camp are simply allowing themselves to be manipulated by entirely human and quite honestly not very convincing trickery...
    I was preaching at a camp earlier this year and we had the altar call. A believer came up for prayer and asked me to stand in agreement with him for his ongoing issue of Anger. He even told me the verse's he was standing on to renew this portion of his flesh. After we prayed I laid hands on him and down he went.

    He fell straight back, hands to his side and his head hit the concrete floor of the outdoor tabernacle we held the service in. No blood, no wound, no nothing. After about 10 minutes he got up and went back to his seat and there was nothing said to him and he was fine the rest of the weekend.

    Those are the times you know the Spirit of God is moving.

    This is but one case of many I have witnessed the power of God moving through someone. I had another person that fell forward about 3 minutes after I prayed with them and laid hands on them. She fell face first and on her chin, hands to her side. No broken bones, no teeth through the lips, not cuts not one scratch....nothing and they laid exactly as they fell.

    I was assisting a visiting Evangelist during a revival once and he laid hands on a man and the guy fell straight back and the very crown of his head hit the pew and his entire body weight was being held by his head against the pew and his heels. When he came to, he simply stood up.

    There is lots of funny business surrounding The power of God moving through people, I very much dislike the term slain in the spirit.

    As a traveling minister, I have had people do fake drops, etc.

    There are those times though, when the power of God is moving and there are signs you know when its really the Holy Ghost. I am thankful that the Holy Ghost tells me who to minister with and who not to on prayer lines.
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    Default Re: Word of Faith: "Metaphysical" "Gnostic" "Cultic" "Not really Christian"-Justin Pe

    Quote Originally Posted by The_highwayman View Post
    Justin Peters is as deceptive as those he judges. He is grinding an axe. What he wont talk about is that he himself was once a very strong believer in WOF until he could not get healed. He is confined to a wheel chair and has Cerebral Palsey.

    He has a ministry of delusions and not discernment, because discernment implies having wisdom, and Mr. Peter' is just an angry person with no wisdom.

    He is not better than some of those he rallies against.
    I don't blame somebody with cerebral palsey for being angry about being tricked by false faith healers. I heard a woman with cerebral palsey talk about how she was treated like a second class Christian at one of those type of churches because she wasn't healed. The rest of the congregation looked down on her for being disabled.
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    Default Re: Word of Faith: "Metaphysical" "Gnostic" "Cultic" "Not really Christian"-Justin Pe

    Quote Originally Posted by skipp View Post
    I don't blame somebody with cerebral palsey for being angry about being tricked by false faith healers. I heard a woman with cerebral palsey talk about how she was treated like a second class Christian at one of those type of churches because she wasn't healed. The rest of the congregation looked down on her for being disabled.
    You need to dig deeper than what I posted. I am not defending the WOF movement at all. They spread condemnation for sure.

    There are videos showing Mr Justin being a class jerk to those he disagrees with. He is not doing anything than drawing attention to himself. This is why he is no better than the one he disagrees with.

    I have watched videos of him confronting Todd Bentley, and it was sad. That is not showing any wisdom and resulted in nothing . Mr. Justin actually attempted to hit the man with his crutches.

    Guys like Justin love stating by their fruit you well know them. Despite Todd Bentley's possible issues, I have to say in that video, Todd had better fruit than the shrill screaming and baby christian antics of Justin Peters.

    The AMA has had studies that show unchecked rage, anger and bitterness can literally cripple people. It would seem that Mr. Discernment is unable to discern his health issue might be his works of the flesh, particularly the bitterness, anger and rage he so carefully tries to hide, but manifests when he is stupid enough to show up aat a WOF service and rebuke the man personally.

    This is spiritual immaturity at its finest and does more to further the WOF movement than bring it down...which is all Mr. Justin rage wants to do.

    There are better ways to go about it...like I don't know? Get on his knees?
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    Default Re: Word of Faith: "Metaphysical" "Gnostic" "Cultic" "Not really Christian"-Justin Pe

    My responses are in bold within the text below.

    Quote Originally Posted by The_highwayman View Post
    I was preaching at a camp earlier this year and we had the altar call. A believer came up for prayer and asked me to stand in agreement with him for his ongoing issue of Anger. He even told me the verse's he was standing on to renew this portion of his flesh. After we prayed I laid hands on him and down he went.

    He fell straight back, hands to his side and his head hit the concrete floor of the outdoor tabernacle we held the service in. No blood, no wound, no nothing. After about 10 minutes he got up and went back to his seat and there was nothing said to him and he was fine the rest of the weekend.

    Those are the times you know the Spirit of God is moving.

    .

    One time a call to come forward came from th eplatform for anyone who wished to have prayer. My mother, a long time Mehodist , who was about as loving and focused on God as anyone I haveever seen got up and was walking behind me as we went forward. I heard a noise and it was her hitting the floor as th epower of God was so strong in that place.

    This is but one case of many I have witnessed the power of God moving through someone. I had another person that fell forward about 3 minutes after I prayed with them and laid hands on them. She fell face first and on her chin, hands to her side. No broken bones, no teeth through the lips, not cuts not one scratch....nothing and they laid exactly as they fell.

    I was assisting a visiting Evangelist during a revival once and he laid hands on a man and the guy fell straight back and the very crown of his head hit the pew and his entire body weight was being held by his head against the pew and his heels. When he came to, he simply stood up.

    I we had one fall and on the way down hit her head on the edge of the pew. Huge goose egg came up almost instantly. We laid hands on the goosegg and as we spoke to it the thing went right back down and th e girl got up praising God.

    There is lots of funny business surrounding The power of God moving through people, I very much dislike the term slain in the spirit.

    As a traveling minister, I have had people do fake drops, etc.

    Agree. One church I have ministered in many times years ago was like that. It was a given that when folks cam eup they would go down. Regarless the power of God was in this place. One time we did a service there during the week focused on getting street people in. There was a good turnout. One guy and his woman came in and he had obviously been into the bottle so to speak. Not long after the message began he got more and more ansy. Finally he jumped up and all but ran out the door. Doc who was speaking that night stopped and had everyone pray for that man that he be convicted and delivered from the powers of darkness. This was done. At the end of the message the man came back in walked straight to the platform and gave his life to Christ. Far as I know he is still attending that church.

    There are those times though, when the power of God is moving and there are signs you know when its really the Holy Ghost. I am thankful that the Holy Ghost tells me who to minister with and who not to on prayer lines.
    Amen...it is "by His spriit that ministry takes place.
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    Default Re: Word of Faith: "Metaphysical" "Gnostic" "Cultic" "Not really Christian"-Justin Pe

    Quote Originally Posted by skipp View Post
    I don't blame somebody with cerebral palsey for being angry about being tricked by false faith healers. I heard a woman with cerebral palsey talk about how she was treated like a second class Christian at one of those type of churches because she wasn't healed. The rest of the congregation looked down on her for being disabled.
    THIS type of action is so very very sad. How many are hurt or turned away from the truth by this tyoe of thing. I tis a trick of the enemy apart from the Love of God.

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