The Bible's Message?

[Esanta]

I came to this forum to understand your religion and possibly ease the relations between myself and you people of the book. I am Buddhist. I read the bible, and on that topic I was speaking to a member of the forums today whom I asked some questions. I decided to post the conversation here (with no names) to ask whether these things are of the same beliefs that you would hold, or otherwise.

To the person themselves, I do not hold any grudge against you. I do however feel that I could not deprive you of the experience of the view of a third eye.

_______________________________________________________


Me: So, to surmise what you say. We must: Have Jesus in our heart, who has the holy eternal spirit, and by having his spirit we love God with all our hearts, and this is shown in that we read his word and ask him into our heart, or else we will burn in hell for eternity.


Reply: Correct. Every one is born into inherited sin that they cannot not pay for.


Me: So what happens to the poor people?


Reply: They can be saved too.


Me: I never heard you mention them before.


Reply: Rich poor or middle class


Me. Nor the widows. Nor the afflicted. Nor the lost. Nor the hurt.


Reply: All can be saved


Me. Nor the crying.


Reply. Everyone


Me. Nor the suffering of mankind.


Reply. God does not do those things to people.


Me. I saw only the rules to the salvation of 'I', with no mention of compassion toward others.


Reply. The devil does those awful things to people.


Me. Jesus was very compassionate. Helping those who suffered.


Reply. Yes and he still is. He is the only true help there is. None other. Jesus loves all people all over the world.


Me. And so do you not think that the person who treads the right path like Jesus would be helping these suffering people, giving them that love, and food, compassion, warmth and shelter?


Reply. Most of the missionaries are Christian and that is what they do.


Me. And so are the characteristics of having this spirit not then in having that love and compassion towards others?


Reply. Are you looking for money or are you looking for God? Are you looking for forgiveness of your sin or are you looking for a hand out? Be honest


Me. That seems like a question born from anger. I will come back to this when you are calm.


Reply. I am calm, you know I have your number lol. Christians are not stupid.


Me. Do not jump to hasty conclusions, they lead to false condemnations.


Reply. hahahah goodbye you have a closed mind and that will lead you to hell. I am putting you on ignore now.

 

[jdbear]

Hello Esanta.
I, as a Christian, believe the God described in the Bible is the only God there is. I believe God was manifested as a Human in the Person of Jesus. You seek truth, which Jesus claimed to be, but since you don't believe there is a God, we have little in common. I'm instructed, as much as it is possible, to live at peace with all people and we can agree to do that.

 

[Esanta]

Hello Esanta.
I, as a Christian, believe the God described in the Bible is the only God there is. I believe God was manifested as a Human in the Person of Jesus. You seek truth, which Jesus claimed to be, but since you don't believe there is a God, We have little in common. I'm instructed, as much as it is possible, to live at peace with all people and we can agree to do that.

Then it is two less people at odds.

 

[RedTent]

I am a Christian. That means that I believe in a God with certain attributes that sets him apart from any God that man has created in his own mind. He cannot be copied, we can't decide for ourselves about this one true God. This God doesn't even think in the same way we do, yet he created us and all of our world. We can only listen carefully to scripture to know about God. This God is your God, too, for God created all men.

No one can understand God unless we are given the Holy Spirit. That comes when we decide to accept that there is this one unique God, and if you haven't received it, it is difficult to even know what I am talking about, so you would just have to accept this is so.

God has control of the world and people He created. However, He decided not to create them as robots, but gave them the right to decide many things for themselves. With the Holy Spirit I spoke of, and with the scriptures He gave, we can give over lots of control to this God, but it is our choice. The happenings in even nations are often the result of the doings of the people of those nations, but the bottom line is always that God has the power over man, the seas, the heavens, everything.

The scriptures that tells about Christianity are not understood in the same way by all Christians because they are written so there is a spiritual way it tells of, there is a physical way of telling what we are to do, there is the history of people's actions and how God sees those actions, often all in the save verse, for instance. Each verse of the bible speaks to many different things, many people simply can't read it that way. So they disagree, often.

There are two different concepts in scripture and in what God wants from us. The first is called salvation. Your discussion didn't get into that very deeply, yet it is the very first of the message from God. God is not only interested in our life here on earth, but in our life after we leave this earth. This God has different places where we can go, but we are only told about these places. The place God wants to take us next simply can't live with sin in it. We can't bring it there, but on this earth we just do sin. What God did about that is really beyond our comprehension, we have to take His word for it, but there are many ways we can check, too complicated for this post. It is like the son of God took on any sin we could have and paid for it. It was done in three days that we are told about, you would find it in what we call gospels. If we ask God to forgive and forget our sins, and we do our best to not sin, we can live on in the next life. It is only God that can do this for us, we are dependent on Him to do it for us.

The second concept is what you know so well in your study. God created this world to work a certain way if we want the best from it. We call it law. Lots of our scripture is about this law, it is for study after we know God, receive the Holy Spirit, and are cleansed of our sin through what the son did. Some Christians even believe law isn't important to know, but most understand it as important to Christianity, even while they think salvation is the most important.

 

[Esanta]

I am a Christian. That means that I believe in a God with certain attributes that sets him apart from any God that man has created in his own mind. He cannot be copied, we can't decide for ourselves about this one true God. This God doesn't even think in the same way we do, yet he created us and all of our world. We can only listen carefully to scripture to know about God. This God is your God, too, for God created all men.

No one can understand God unless we are given the Holy Spirit. That comes when we decide to accept that there is this one unique God, and if you haven't received it, it is difficult to even know what I am talking about, so you would just have to accept this is so.

God has control of the world and people He created. However, He decided not to create them as robots, but gave them the right to decide many things for themselves. With the Holy Spirit I spoke of, and with the scriptures He gave, we can give over lots of control to this God, but it is our choice. The happenings in even nations are often the result of the doings of the people of those nations, but the bottom line is always that God has the power over man, the seas, the heavens, everything.

The scriptures that tells about Christianity are not understood in the same way by all Christians because they are written so there is a spiritual way it tells of, there is a physical way of telling what we are to do, there is the history of people's actions and how God sees those actions, often all in the save verse, for instance. Each verse of the bible speaks to many different things, many people simply can't read it that way. So they disagree, often.

There are two different concepts in scripture and in what God wants from us. The first is called salvation. Your discussion didn't get into that very deeply, yet it is the very first of the message from God. God is not only interested in our life here on earth, but in our life after we leave this earth. This God has different places where we can go, but we are only told about these places. The place God wants to take us next simply can't live with sin in it. We can't bring it there, but on this earth we just do sin. What God did about that is really beyond our comprehension, we have to take His word for it, but there are many ways we can check, too complicated for this post. It is like the son of God took on any sin we could have and paid for it. It was done in three days that we are told about, you would find it in what we call gospels. If we ask God to forgive and forget our sins, and we do our best to not sin, we can live on in the next life. It is only God that can do this for us, we are dependent on Him to do it for us.

The second concept is what you know so well in your study. God created this world to work a certain way if we want the best from it. We call it law. Lots of our scripture is about this law, it is for study after we know God, receive the Holy Spirit, and are cleansed of our sin through what the son did. Some Christians even believe law isn't important to know, but most understand it as important to Christianity, even while they think salvation is the most important.

I read this twice.

Another two people are not at odds. When compassion is your motive, all you say is fair and just.

 

[2Thewaters]

WONDERFUL!

Welcome !

let me tell you the truth before you get twisted....

First thing is this

You need to get a living book with power in it, called the Bible, and you should get one that reads easily

I will give you one here.

here is my web site that I use it to study the bible it has lots of versions but this is the easiest for a brahman

Genesis 1 - NLT - Online Bible Study

just follow this link until you have read Genesis through it should take you about two hours

then you about Christianity...

 

[2Thewaters]

WONDERFUL!

Welcome !

First thing is this

God is all love and his name is YAHWEH the Eternal Creator!
He created all things just for you and created you to live forever as his son
and he wants you to live with him growing and learning for eternity and to be a priest and king over his universe!
what an honor!

Here is the story of your father in heaven our Eternal Creator Father of light

for he dwells in light unaproachable.

You need to get a living book with power in it, called the Bible, and you should get one that reads easily

I will give you one here.

here is my web site for studying the bible and it has lots of versions but this is the easiest for a brahman

Genesis 1 - NLT - Online Bible Study

just follow this link until you have read Genesis through it should take you about two hours

then you about Christianity...

 

[2Thewaters]

. 16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. 17 God did not send his Son into the world to condemn it, but to save it.

The world is doomed
but God sent his son to rescue anyone who wants to be rescued...

All are invited, and that is why you were led here, so you can be rescued from the coming destruction of the Day of the Lord and his judgement of sin and sinners who do nt ever want to be good, he will eliminate the wicked mafia and all those running the corupt systems and leave all those who want to be good and change.

isnt that good news?

 

[jdbear]

Originally posted by Esanta
Then it is two less people at odds.

As long as you refrain from your concept that Jesus was simply a human who attained nirvana and I refrain from my concept that Jesus created us, we should get along fine.

 

[SpaceCowboy]

Jesus Christ is the only way to salvation.

 

[2Thewaters]

Jesus is our example
He wants us to study to be like him.
We were going to die
He gave up his godly body and took on human form forever to come down and show us how to live
he married mankind and will be with humanity in the flesh for eeternity

that kind of love is no where in any other religion

most religions are fear and pacifying of evil spirits and goblins and angry gods

this is false theology
God loves us and as long as we stop killing innocent cpeople and want to change he will change us

christianity is the only religion that teaches love and respect for all men as our brothers.

 

[2Thewaters]

The Bible is the book of warning.
The evil one who came from heaven and fought against God and all his amgels was cast down to this earth

all evil comes from him
his millions of evil spirits pretend to be the spirits of the dead

and above all he HATES THE LAW OF GOD!
for it caused him to be cast out of heaven he broke it
all rligions who claim there is no law or is no sin is of the enemy. his invention.
for the law is eternal and there certainly is sin.

The Bible tells us the dead know not anything
so we are told NOT to worship or talk to any dead spirits as these are really demons

demon worship is opening a door of fear, which drives all actions

The false religions invented by satan always have some sort of contact with the dead, awhich really is demon spirit worship
The Bible is the power to set you free from all these demons or fear and false leiing spirits who claim to be ancestors who are not.

The infinite power of God blocks all spirit anger from hurting you if you ask by faith

Num 23:23 Surely there is no enchantment against Jacob, neither is there any divination against Israel: according to this time it shall be said of Jacob and of Israel, What hath God wrought!

Missionaries have gone into burma, and the demon pagodas with spirits were all cast out and became ineffectual when christian missinaries arrived.

Curses on diamonds and trees and certain buildings had no effect on christian missionaries the demons cannot touch them

this shows that the spirits budhists pray to are not really people and realatives but evil demons pretending to be their relatives.

and many budhists have been set free from their fear and never were harmed again.

God is stronger than all spirits of the enemy.
and you can come out right now and trust inJesus christ to set you free

we are slaves set free from all bonds of the enemy.

Num 23:23 Surely there is no enchantment against Jacob, neither is there any divination against Israel: according to this time it shall be said of Jacob and of Israel, What hath God wrought!



Spirit possession theory explains all these phenomena.
To possess is to have complete power over.
The origin of this word is from the Latin possidere which means ‘occupy, hold’.
Spirit possession is the state of being under complete control of a spirit.
Spirit possession is real ( Mark 1:23-25, 5:1-20, 7:24-30, 9:17-27).
Spirit possession can explain explain how temple mediums are able to invoke the spirits of the departed. It can also explain how some persons are able toaccurately recall events experienced by individuals who have long since died.
A definite case of spirit possession is described by Roy Stemman about a Thai Buddhist monk who was born one day before his previous body died.
This case cannot be explained by reincarnation because it would mean that the baby was born without a spirit and remained without a spirit for one day.
The logical explanation is that the baby was already born with an original spirit. One day after birth, his body became inhabited or possessed by another spirit.


the spirit that possesses the body of a person suppresses the expression of the original spirit of that person. all possessing spirits are evil, otherwise they would not possess.
the Holy Spirit does not possess. On the contrary, the Holy Spirit renders a person free to choose.

 

[2Thewaters]

John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
John 6:36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.


I believe you are drawn here for the truth
the truth will set you free from fear and the enemy can no longer harm you

all human beings were created by God and stolen by the enemy yet God is not weak that he might save

be assured that there is no reincarnation, only possession of demons, and these can be cast out by trust in God and faith in the word of God

see the Book you read has power
it worked in you
it brought you here

and if you agree
you get dvinne power enough to cast out all the spirits and you never have to serve them again.

You cannot save yourself by meditation

when the supervolcano goes off all the meditation and sacrifices to the ancestors will not help you
you will either have a connection with GOD and divine power or you will suffocate

JEsus wants to save everyone and you are very precious or he would not have called you here...

 

[2Thewaters]

Pray to God
Say SHOW ME YOUR GLORY FATHER IN HEAVEN
Read the Book of luke

that is about JEsus to the gentiles
and then read Genesis and know it is the same God
same one in luke and same one in Genesis
then tell him thank you for creating me
I want to know about you please protect me from the evil spirits that want me
and you will no longer be touched ever again.

 

[Nick01]

The message of the gospel is: Jesus is Lord.

That might seem a little too short, but let me explain what I mean.

Like Buddhism, Christanity believes that suffering is not what should be, and that suffering is most fundementally brought about by what is inside people. Buddhism would say that suffering stems from attachment, and that we must remove ourselves from attachment to the material world, and instead fulfill our duty, seek englightenment, and that one of the highest callings, as a Bodhisattva or similar, is to assist others in seeking enlightenment.

However, Christianity would say that the solution to suffering is not detachment, but instead, closer fellowship. The reason we suffer is not because we are attached to the material world, causing pain, but rather the reason is because we seek not to live in step with God's will. Part of that might include being caught up in fast cars and lots of mone and that sort of thing, but it's much more fundemental than that - our problem is autonomy. We want to do what we want, and stuff God and everyone else. We don't want live God's way, which is the way of life, because God is life but we seek our own destination, hurting anyone who gets in the way, and ultimately causing our own suffering, in the way a dog might run out into the middle of the road only to be run over. The difference is we should know better.

But the message of the gospel is that Jesus did what we could not do - he was obedient. He put others before himself. He sought his Father's will over his own. The perplexing thing though is that he suffered because of it, in order to spare us eternal suffering. He stood in our place before God, and he even took on the suffering of the human beings who put him to death. He died to reconcile us to God, because of our sin and self-interest, because of the wrongness of that. Those who would follow Christ, as you would follow any great teacher, must live like him.

And that means caring for the poor and oppressed, as one must care for all people. But curing poverty or sickness is not the answer in Christianity anymore than it is in classical Buddhism. The solution is to cure the human heart. But which is the correct way?

 

[2Thewaters]

We cannot fis the problem
of stubborn selfish herts oppressing the poor and innocent...
God has had enough.
Make your choice, the day of the Lord is coming in a few days...

 

[Esanta]

Nick01, I came back to this thread and read your comment. First of all, thank you for taking the time to explain your positions to me. If I may, though, I would like to offer some correction.

''Like Buddhism, Christanity believes that suffering is not what should be, and that suffering is most fundementally brought about by what is inside people. Buddhism would say that suffering stems from attachment, and that we must remove ourselves from attachment to the material world, and instead fulfill our duty, seek englightenment, and that one of the highest callings, as a Bodhisattva or similar, is to assist others in seeking enlightenment. ''

The 'point', if you like, of Buddhist philosophy, is to cessate unsatisfactory states that cause suffering, whether that be removing attachment to temporary alleviations and to graspings, thereby experiencing things without attaching, or whether that be offering water to a thirsty person. The purpose of all Buddhist thought is for the means of compassion, both for oneself and others.

''However, Christianity would say that the solution to suffering is not detachment, but instead, closer fellowship. The reason we suffer is not because we are attached to the material world, causing pain, but rather the reason is because we seek not to live in step with God's will. Part of that might include being caught up in fast cars and lots of mone and that sort of thing, but it's much more fundemental than that - our problem is autonomy. We want to do what we want, and stuff God and everyone else. We don't want live God's way, which is the way of life, because God is life but we seek our own destination, hurting anyone who gets in the way, and ultimately causing our own suffering, in the way a dog might run out into the middle of the road only to be run over. The difference is we should know better.''

Like Christianity, Buddhist thought is not about being detached in the common sense of being separate from people, and in fact non-attachment is a far more fitting term. But again, non-attachment does not denote having no close relationships, friends or family. Rather it is a method to true compassion and the deepest fellowship with others, not only friends and family but with the world and with all beings.

Non attachment is simply realizing what you say - that we desire to live in particular ways and do certain things to make ourselves temporarily happy, yet we cause our own suffering and that of others by doing such things. In reality, clinging to temporary alleviations of our suffering only compounds our suffering when these alleviations disappear, thus if in sensing pleasure we cling, when that pleasurable thing disappears, we suffer twofold. non-attachment is the method of avoiding this clinging to temporary things. First it begins by recognizing that all Earthly things are temporary, arising and cessating endlessly. No moment stands still, no thing stays unchanged, no facet of the permanent existence is in itself permanent, but flowing, endlessly arising, cessating, breathing, resting, living then dying. Non-attachment is in fact the opposite of separation, it is embracing all things as a changing, ever-arising-and-cessating whole. It is unity, not separation. If you have made everything one, then there is nothing to be attached to, nor nothing to be separated from. I, as you, suffer, and I, as you, wish to be free of it, thus I, as you, should endeavour to treat I as you, knowing that I'm pained, treating you with the same kindness I would treat me, and so on and so forth. 'Consider others as yourself'.

''But the message of the gospel is that Jesus did what we could not do - he was obedient. He put others before himself. He sought his Father's will over his own. The perplexing thing though is that he suffered because of it, in order to spare us eternal suffering. He stood in our place before God, and he even took on the suffering of the human beings who put him to death. He died to reconcile us to God, because of our sin and self-interest, because of the wrongness of that. Those who would follow Christ, as you would follow any great teacher, must live like him. ''

In Buddhist thought, there are many forms of suffering, but a person who masters the embracing of all things suffers physical pain in only a passing way, without clinging. Self does not exist, said Buddha, so what harm to me do selfless actions do? To do for others is the same as doing for oneself. Selfless compassion lies at the heart of Buddhist philosophy. It is the foundation of it all.

''And that means caring for the poor and oppressed, as one must care for all people. But curing poverty or sickness is not the answer in Christianity anymore than it is in classical Buddhism. The solution is to cure the human heart. But which is the correct way?''

Caring for the suffering of all things IS curing the sickness of suffering, and the root from which that caringness comes is from the heart of selfless compassion.

 

[Esanta]

I've always understood that many people don't really comprehend buddhist thought as it sits, but I also, being an avid reader of Buddha, see striking similarities between him and Jesus of Nazareth. It has always fascinated me how these two from so many years apart would say, in different terms of course, so many similar things.

 

[Angela53510]

Esanta, I am grieved your conversation ended on such a sour note, especially in light of you coming here and wanting to learn about Jesus. I have read many of your posts, and you have not come here to make light of Christianity, I believe, but rather to understand it better. Instead, you learned that some people are not mature Christians.

For me, coming to Christ relieved my suffering. Oh, there is a process and a journey involved, but serving others is a BIG part of the Christian package, which seems to be left out in most gospel messages. Jesus himself said:

"For even the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many." Mark 10:45

Paul also talked about serving, especially as he gathered collections for the church in Jerusalem, where there was a famine.

"For you were called to freedom, brothers. Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another." Gal. 5:13

North American Christianity seems to forget the Great Commandment, too.

"And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. [SUP]38 [/SUP]This is the great and first commandment. [SUP]39 [/SUP]And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself." Matt 22:37-39.

Without the love of God in our hearts, though, I would find it very difficult to serve others. I am a chaplain in long term care, and there is nothing that makes me happier than a day of walking with people who are alone, or suffering. God has taught me though, that it is ok to suffer. I do not believe in detachment, unless it is for the purpose of attaching myself more to Jesus Christ. This is one of my life verses, on suffering, which God gave me after an operation went bad and left me suffering terribly in body and soul. It has given me more hope than anything else.

"Not only that, but we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, [SUP]4 [/SUP]and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, [SUP]5 [/SUP]and hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us." Romans 5:3-5

Sorry to use so many Bible quotes, but that is what makes sense to me. My relationship with Jesus Christ and the Word of God are my hope and my future. I do agree that we have to start with the heart. For me, that was only possible with Jesus Christ. I have known two Buddhists quite well. One was a lost soul, and she got so depressed in her life (after 40 years of being a Buddhist) she came close to suicide. Neither Buddhism nor the other Buddhists helped her.

Another friend is a long time Buddhist. He is not perfect, but definitely has the character and morals of a Christian! He even meditates with Quakers, because he is allergic to incense. We have talked about our "ontologies" as he likes to call them, many times. I have presented Christ to him, out of love and concern, and he has taken it my sharing as out of love.

So out of love, I want you to know that Jesus himself said he is "the way, the truth and the life." John 14:6

I don't know if you believe in God, as some Buddhists do, but most don't. But I do want to share with you that God loves you, and he may have a purpose in bringing you here, to hear the gospel and to find Christ. Personally, I think that life is more complex than just suffering. And that comes from someone who has been in physical pain for over 15 years. God is also the one who has healed my heart from past hurts done by others and to myself.

My prayer is that you will come to know that there is a self, and that self needs to be connected to God through Jesus Christ. I think that is the first step, as I do not believe you can earn your way to salvation by any works, including relieving suffering. (Works come after salvation, not before!)

The first step is following God with all your heart, soul, strength and mind, and then loving your neighbor as yourself.

There is no doubt in my mind that Jesus put those two verses together for a reason. I just wish more Christians realized this important truth. And I pray for you to understand the truth of the Bible and to know Christ, and the fellowship of his sufferings.

"that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death," Phil. 3:10.

I think suffering is part of the package, but sometimes that means sharing, not getting rid of the suffering!

 

[RedTent]

I read this twice.

Another two people are not at odds. When compassion is your motive, all you say is fair and just.

But, Esanta, you need to understand the major difference between you and me is Christ. A blood covenant we have with Christ is a Christian's base for belief. It has been since the first, when man decided to know about sin. To a Christian, the life we have been promised with God after we live out the life here is most important, has been since God used blood to cover the nakedness of the first man. That blood represented the blood of Christ.

When Christ spent those three days paying for our sin so we could have eternal life we have this eternal life. We also have the spirit of God we can take on here so our life here is easier. You use some of the principles of that, too, in your religion. We call it works, and although works are necessary, it is the blood of Christ that insures our living on after this life and we want that, too.