THE HOLY SPIRIT IS AN ANGEL!?!?

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Dec 15, 2009
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I don't want everyone to think I'm crazy, but in my readings and searching out in scripture, I've come to the conclusion that the Holy Spirit is an angel. Please take a look at the scripture I present as I welcome all comments and replies. After all, we are all here to grow in Christ!


Let's start in Ex.3:2-6) And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.

3And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt.
4And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.
5And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground. 6Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.
We see the angel of the Lord in the burning bush and God calling moses out of it. Although this is an angel, he spoke as GOD!
Now let's dig deeper. Ex.23:20-23)
Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.

21Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.
22But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries. 23For mine Angel shall go before thee, and bring thee in unto the Amorites, and the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Canaanites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites: and I will cut them off.
Now we see that after Israel left Egypt, God sends an Angel to KEEP THEE IN THE WAY, AND TO BRING THEE INTO THE PLACE WHICH I HAVE PREPARED. God tells them to beware of him and obey his voice. the voice of the angel. Provoke him not, for he(the angel) will not pardon your transgressions! But how is an angel able to do this? "FOR MY(GOD'S) NAME IS IN HIM!" God then goes on to say that if they obey his( the angel's) voice and do all that I(God) speak, then God will be an enemy unto their enemies.You should know that Israel rebelled. Is:63:9-10) In all their affliction he(God) was afflicted, and the angel of his(God's) presence saved them: in his(God's) love and in his(God's) pity he(God') redeemed them; and he(God) bare them, and carried them all the days of old.
10But they rebelled, and vexed his(God's) holy Spirit: therefore he(God) was turned to be their enemy, and he(God) fought against them.
Now we have 3 titles for the angel that God sent. "The angel of the Lord," The angel of His Presence," and His "Holy spirit!" One might think that this isn't refering to an angel because only God is Holy. But what were we told in Exodus at the burning bush. The angel told moses to take off his shoes because the ground he stood on was holy ground. This angel also spoke as if he was God. Why? Because God's name is in him! Besides, don't forget that angels are ministering SPIRITS! So Israel rebelled against His Angel. They did not obey his voice. So how did God turn to be their enemy?
Judges 2:1-4)
And an angel of the LORD came up from Gilgal to Bochim, and said, I made you to go up out of Egypt, and have brought you unto the land which I sware unto your fathers; and I said, I will never break my covenant with you.

2And ye shall make no league with the inhabitants of this land; ye shall throw down their altars: but ye have not obeyed my voice: why have ye done this? 3Wherefore I also said, I will not drive them out from before you; but they shall be as thorns in your sides, and their gods shall be a snare unto you.
How did Israel rebel towards the angel's voice? BY MAKING COVENENTS WITH THE INHABITANTS OF THE LAND AND BY NOT THROWING DOWN THEIR ALTARS! So how was God turned to be an enemy of Israel? By NOT driving them out of the land and having them as THORNS in their sides; THERE GODS SHALL BE A SNARE UNTO YOU.
Each time the angel spoke it was as if he was God himself! Let's go to the new testament.
Luke1:11-13 And there appeared unto him an angel of the Lord standing on the right side of the altar of incense.

12And when Zacharias saw him, he was troubled, and fear fell upon him. 13But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.
18-20 And Zacharias said unto the angel, Whereby shall I know this? for I am an old man, and my wife well stricken in years.

19And the angel answering said unto him, I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God; and am sent to speak unto thee, and to shew thee these glad tidings. 20And, behold, thou shalt be dumb, and not able to speak, until the day that these things shall be performed, because thou believest not my words, which shall be fulfilled in their season.
SO NOW WE HAVE A NAME FOR THIS ANGEL! We see that Gabriel STANDS IN THE PRESENCE OF GOD. We also see that because Zacharias didn't believe his WORDS(voice), he was made dumb and unable to speak. Why? Because just as Israel did in the wilderness, he did not hearken onto the SPIRIT OF TRUTH!
Nehemiah 9:18 Yea, when they had made them a molten calf, and said, This is thy God that brought thee up out of Egypt, and had wrought great provocations;

19Yet thou in thy manifold mercies forsookest them not in the wilderness: the pillar of the cloud departed not from them by day, to lead them in the way; neither the pillar of fire by night, to shew them light, and the way wherein they should go. 20THOU GAVEST ALSO THY GOOD SPIRIT TO INSTRUCT THEM, and withheldest not thy manna from their mouth, and gavest them water for their thirst.
Gabriel's purpose is to instruct us in truth!
Daniel 8:15-16 And it came to pass, when I, even I Daniel, had seen the vision, and sought for the meaning, then, behold, there stood before me as the appearance of a man.
16And I heard a man's voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision. Once again Gabriel is instructing or teaching. So how was Daniel able to recieve the truth?
Daniel 9:20-23 And whiles I was speaking, and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the LORD my God for the holy mountain of my God;

21Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.
22And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding. 23At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.
He as we should also, kept the commandments!
Gabriel's job is to lead us and guide us into all truth.
Luke 1:26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth. Gabriel never shows on his own but is always sent by God.
30-31 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
31And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
John 14:15-17 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
24-26 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

25These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. 26But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
John 16:12-13 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
Just as in Daniel when he kept the commandments, Gabriel was sent to him to instruct him. Now Jesus states that if we keep the commandments, He will send another Comforter, that he may abide with us forever. There was no need for gabriel to be sent at this point because the TRUE LIGHT was sent into the world. And just as the angel had YHWH'S name in him when he was sent, so much more when Jesus states that He comes in His Father's Name!
Before Jesus came the Spirit or angel spoke not of himself, but whatever he was told by YHWH. So now we can get a better understanding of 1John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. Does this point to the trinity? No! John then states the meaning of the context of this verse with heaven's Physical counterpart:
8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three AGREE IN ONE. The Father The Son(Word) and the Spirit(angel) are in AGREEMENT! OF ONE PURPOSE! John isn't hinting at a trinity, he's giving us a protocol. This same protocol is in Rev.1-1
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and SIGNIFIED IT BY HIS ANGEL unto his servant John:
What happened to the Holy ghost. He's still there. He's the angel!
1John 5:10 He that believeth on the Son(Word) of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son(Word).
Who sent record of God's word to man? THE ANGEL OF HIS PRESENCE, THE ANGEL OF THE LORD, THE HOLY SPIRIT, THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH, OR BY HIS PROPER NAME....GABRIEL! This is the same one Rev 2:11 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw. Remember 1John 5:7? This is the protocol!
Rev. 2-11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death. We agree that it was the Holy Spirit that spoke to the the churches. But from there we seperate when one chooses to once again MAKE A COVENANT WITH THE INHABITANTS OF THE LAND; NOT THROWING DOWN THEIR ALTARS! So again what does God do? He does NOT throw them out of the land and has become a THORN in their side. THEIR GODS SHALL BE A SNARE! I choose to obey the voice of the Spirit. Rev.22:16
I Jesus have sent mine ANGEL TO TESTIFY UNTO YOU THESE THINGS IN THE CHURCHES. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
 
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greatkraw

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#2
. Equated with God
1. Triadic formulas: Several passages discuss the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as equals. In a discussion of spiritual gifts, Paul puts the Spirit, the Lord, and God in grammatically parallel constructions (1 Cor. 12:4-6). Paul closes a letter with a three-part prayer: "May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all" (2 Cor. 13:14). Peter begins a letter with this three-part formula: "who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, for obedience
 
Dec 15, 2009
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#3
. Equated with God
1. Triadic formulas: Several passages discuss the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as equals. In a discussion of spiritual gifts, Paul puts the Spirit, the Lord, and God in grammatically parallel constructions (1 Cor. 12:4-6). Paul closes a letter with a three-part prayer: "May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all" (2 Cor. 13:14). Peter begins a letter with this three-part formula: "who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, for obedience


And of the spirit you talked about in the Jesus is YHWH thread, does that signify that He's God?
 
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greatkraw

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#4
you mean the "Spirit of the Lord" deeeeeeeeeeeeeer(rolls eyes)
 
Dec 13, 2009
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#7
you mean the "Spirit of the Lord" deeeeeeeeeeeeeer(rolls eyes)
It is good to see that you are polite and willing to reason with people who ask sincere questions without making snide remarks.

Truly you are the model of what Jesus envisioned one of his followers to be!

*I hope the sarcasm isn't lost on you.*
 
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greatkraw

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#8
Sarcasm is never lost on me.

In any battle of wits you are clearly only half prepared.

We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
of all that is, seen and unseen.

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,
and was made man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.
We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son.

With the Father and the Son he is worshipped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. Amen.​
 
Jan 8, 2009
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#9
The angel Gabriel cannot be the Holy Spirit because the Spirit is God, but here in Gabriel's discussion with Daniel, the angel does not refer to himself as God

Dan 9:23 When you began to plead with God, he answered you. He loves you, and so I have come to tell you the answer. Now pay attention while I explain the vision.
 
Dec 13, 2009
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#10
Sarcasm is never lost on me.

In any battle of wits you are clearly only half prepared.
Continuing to insult people, just as Jesus would have done. I'd offer to compare academic accomplishments with you, but I clearly don't see the point, since your intellect and morality towers above mine.

Truly you are a perfect example of a Christian!
 
S

songster

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#11
I'm a little late entering the discussion. It appears that Gabriel (the Angel) and the Holy Spirit of God, are being given equal status in this thread. I also see that the original post came from someone, unsure of what they believe.

Is this a question, coming from someone who desires a clarification of the Trinity, or the introduction of a new doctrine which apparently promotes an angel (a messenger), and demotes the Holy Ghost, (The Spirit of God) ?

There are many scriptures referenced in the Orig. post, however the primary basis for your claim hasn't been established. What separates this from being reckless assumption?
 
Dec 15, 2009
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#12
I'm a little late entering the discussion. It appears that Gabriel (the Angel) and the Holy Spirit of God, are being given equal status in this thread. I also see that the original post came from someone, unsure of what they believe.

Is this a question, coming from someone who desires a clarification of the Trinity, or the introduction of a new doctrine which apparently promotes an angel (a messenger), and demotes the Holy Ghost, (The Spirit of God) ?

There are many scriptures referenced in the Orig. post, however the primary basis for your claim hasn't been established. What separates this from being reckless assumption?

If the Holy Spirit is indeed God, then where is this God figure in Revelation? He seems a little left out of the picture with the Father and the Lamb recieving all the credit in the end.
 
S

songster

Guest
#13
If the Holy Spirit is indeed God, then where is this God figure in Revelation? He seems a little left out of the picture with the Father and the Lamb recieving all the credit in the end.
The book of the Revelation, is a book which primarily deals with the unfolding of end-time events. It isn't the most likely source I'd select, for substantiating or refuting a belief in The Holy Spirit's place in the trinity.

Without re-reading John's Revelation, I already know that chapter 22 vs. 17 , following the words of Jesus, states " The Spirit and the Bride say come".

If that doesn't suffice. Let me draw a connection just to inform you of something you perhaps, have overlooked. There is a dangerous doctrinal conclusion which must be drawn, if anyone is to accept your argument as having any merit. What you are alleging, begins to erode the very fundementals of the Christian faith at its very roots. Let me explain.

In Matthew 1:18 , The events leading to the Birth of Christ are explained. it says,

This is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be with child of the Holy Spirit.

In order for me to accept the alleged connection you've drawn, (claiming that the Holy Spirit was in fact an angel), I would also have to accept that Mary was with child through an angel.

It is accepted as basic bible truth, among most Christian denominations that Mary was divinely impregnated by the Holy Spirt.

The position of angels is clearly explained in Hebrews 1:13

To which of the angels did God ever say, 'Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet. Aren't all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?

Throughout scripture, both OT and NT, angels have only been portrayed as 'messengers' and 'warriors'. The only time copulation between angels and human beings ever took place, was in Genesis 6:3 , the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose.

Angels were referred to at least twice in the OT, as 'sons of God'. In the book of

Job, 1:6
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD...

Other scriptures, considered to be foundational, explain what occurred following the water baptism of Jesus.

Luke 4:1 ... Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan. ..

Once again, in order to substantiate your theory, we would have to believe that an angel, (not God), was within Jesus and also within his people.

Acts 2:4 ... all of them were filled with the Holy Spirit ...

Rom. 8:9 ... You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you ...

There are many scriptures which clearly distinguish between the position and function of the Holy Spirit and the position and function of angels.
 
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Sep 24, 2009
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#14
No he's not an angel, what are you a Jehova's witness?
 
G

greatkraw

Guest
#15
Continuing to insult people, just as Jesus would have done. I'd offer to compare academic accomplishments with you, but I clearly don't see the point, since your intellect and morality towers above mine.

Truly you are a perfect example of a Christian!
I will hand it to you Slim, as trolls go you are reasonably subtle.

The fact is that spiritual truths are spiritually discerned.
 
Jan 31, 2009
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#16
It is good to see that you are polite and willing to reason with people who ask sincere questions without making snide remarks.

Truly you are the model of what Jesus envisioned one of his followers to be!

*I hope the sarcasm isn't lost on you.*
And what do you call what you just did ?
 
Jan 31, 2009
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#17
If the Holy Spirit is indeed God, then where is this God figure in Revelation? He seems a little left out of the picture with the Father and the Lamb recieving all the credit in the end.
Joe 2:28And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:Joe 2:29And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.Joe 2:30And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.Joe 2:31The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.


this is the last days spoken of here and wow! Look the Spirit / Holy Spirit is there
 
C

charisenexcelcis

Guest
#18
The word "angel" in both Greek and Hebrew is simply a word meaning "messenger". While most of the time the context indicates an angel in our classical definition, occasionally it is used differently. This by the way is the connection between the word "angel" and the word "evangel", Messager and good message. This may be part of the cause of your confusion.
 
Dec 15, 2009
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#19
Joe 2:28And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:Joe 2:29And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.Joe 2:30And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.Joe 2:31The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.


this is the last days spoken of here and wow! Look the Spirit / Holy Spirit is there

What does it mean to be filled with the holy spirit?
 
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NewJerusalem

Guest
#20
Are we really having this conversation? :rolleyes:
 
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