Baptism Essential to Salvation
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There are only two cases of Holy Spirit baptism in the New Testament. The household of Cornelius and the apostles. Christ is the only one who could perform this baptism (Luke 3:16). And example is Acts chapter 8 where the eunuch was baptized as soon as they went down into the water. Quite obviously it was water baptism. Ephesians 4:5 says that there is one baptism today. That one baptism is the same baptism the eunuch received. If the Great Commission was Holy Spirit baptism, then Christ gave the Apostles an order they did not have the power to carry out. No, the baptism for today is baptism in water for the remission of sins.
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ugh this old argument again...
If you really want to believe taking a dip in a pool with your pastor saying some words while youre submerged is what guarantees you salvation then go ahead. Everyone is wrong about some things in life.
As far as the whole in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit vs in the name of Jesus thing, well if its just you trying to have that argument again, then I don't care.
If you really want to believe taking a dip in a pool with your pastor saying some words while youre submerged is what guarantees you salvation then go ahead. Everyone is wrong about some things in life.
As far as the whole in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit vs in the name of Jesus thing, well if its just you trying to have that argument again, then I don't care.
Since salvation is offered so many, many times in the Bible just for faith/believing, water baptism cannot be essential to salvation. It is true that if you believe and eat beans, you will be saved -- but the beans are not essential.
If you eat yeast & drink shoe polish,
you will rise & shine -- but that is another topic.
Believe on the Lord Jesus [Christ], & you shall be saved. Acts 16.
This was a direct answer to "Sirs, what must I do to be saved."
If something besides "believe" were required, that would be false advertising.
Only rarely is baptism associated with salvation in the Bible.
In no case is water mentioned.
Since the baptism of the Spirit is salvific, it make sense to interpret those rare passages as referring to Spirit baptism. Also, since salvation is not by works (Eph 2), and since water baptism is a human work, water baptism cannot be causative of salvation.
On the other hand, Spirit baptism is not a human work. A number of works are required for salvation, but only by God. In salvation Christ is the Savior, the one who handles our sin problem. We are the savee (if we trust Him).
Having said that, water baptism is something that IMHO should be done as soon as possible after a man trusts Jesus as Savior. I don't see any way to interpret Mat 28 to refer to anything but water baptism, since it is something men will, while Christ baptizes with the Spirit.
If you eat yeast & drink shoe polish,
you will rise & shine -- but that is another topic.
Believe on the Lord Jesus [Christ], & you shall be saved. Acts 16.
This was a direct answer to "Sirs, what must I do to be saved."
If something besides "believe" were required, that would be false advertising.
Only rarely is baptism associated with salvation in the Bible.
In no case is water mentioned.
Since the baptism of the Spirit is salvific, it make sense to interpret those rare passages as referring to Spirit baptism. Also, since salvation is not by works (Eph 2), and since water baptism is a human work, water baptism cannot be causative of salvation.
On the other hand, Spirit baptism is not a human work. A number of works are required for salvation, but only by God. In salvation Christ is the Savior, the one who handles our sin problem. We are the savee (if we trust Him).
Having said that, water baptism is something that IMHO should be done as soon as possible after a man trusts Jesus as Savior. I don't see any way to interpret Mat 28 to refer to anything but water baptism, since it is something men will, while Christ baptizes with the Spirit.
Scripture does not say that baptism in water is for the remission of sins . Calling on the Lord in faith for salvation will bring remission of sins. Yes, the baptism of Mt 28 must be water, for as you say, humans cannot spirit baptize.
Alligator, how do you know which it is when water is not mentioned? Since works cannot save, if baptism is salvific, that baptism cannot be water baptism, a human work.
There are more than 2 refs to spirit baptism in the Bible. And since 1 cor 12:13 says that all believers have been baptized of the Spirit, every time someone believed, he was baptized of the Spirit.
I indeed baptize you in water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you in the Holy Spirit and in fire: whose fan is in his hand, and he will thoroughly cleanse his threshing-floor; and he will gather his wheat into the garner, but the chaff he will burn up with unquenchable fire.
And John was clothed with camel’s hair, and had a leathern girdle about his loins, and did eat locusts and wild honey. And he preached, saying, There cometh after me he that is mightier than I, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to stoop down and unloose. I baptized you in water; but he shall baptize you in the Holy Spirit.
And as the people were in expectation, and all men reasoned in their hearts concerning John, whether haply he were the Christ; John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but there cometh he that is mightier than I, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you in the Holy Spirit and in fire: whose fan is in his hand, thoroughly to cleanse his threshing-floor, and to gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn up with unquenchable fire.
And I knew him not; but that he should be made manifest to Israel, for this cause came I baptizing in water. And John bare witness, saying, I have beheld the Spirit descending as a dove out of heaven; and it abode upon him. And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize in water, he said unto me, Upon whomsoever thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and abiding upon him, the same is he that baptizeth in the Holy Spirit. And I have seen, and have borne witness that this is the Son of God.
to whom he also showed himself alive after his passion by many proofs, appearing unto them by the space of forty days, and speaking the things concerning the kingdom of God: and, being assembled together with them, he charged them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the promise of the Father, which, said he, ye heard from me: for John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized in the Holy Spirit not many days hence.
Clearly this happened in Acts 2 on the day of Pentecost
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and the rest of the apostles, Brethren, what shall we do? And Peter said unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For to you is the promise, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call unto him. And with many other words he testified, and exhorted them, saying, Save yourselves from this crooked generation.
who shall speak unto thee words, whereby thou shalt be saved, thou and all thy house. And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on them, even as on us at the beginning. And I remembered the word of the Lord, how he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized in the Holy Spirit. If then God gave unto them the like gift as he did also unto us, when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I, that I could withstand God? And when they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then to the Gentiles also hath God granted repentance unto life.
For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of the body, being many, are one body; so also is Christ. For in one Spirit were we all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether bond or free; and were all made to drink of one Spirit. For the body is not one member, but many. If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; it is not therefore not of the body.
In Romans 6 there is baptism into Christ (as opposed to water), which is probably the same as Spirit baptism, as the latter puts one into the Body of Christ.
As to Eph 4, no water is mentioned there, & the passage is not counting beans or baptisms but saying that all Christians have the same baptism, which must be spirit baptism, as some Christians have not been baptized with water. Many, many times salvation is offered just for believing/faith, so water baptism cannot be essential to salvation. Thus when a man trusts Christ as Savior, he is spirit baptized, but has some interval of time before water baptized, though he may die first in some instances.
Eph also says:
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, not of works lest anyone should boast.
This excludes water baptism as saving, as it is a human work. Wherever baptism is salvific, it cannot be water baptism.
Alligator, how do you know which it is when water is not mentioned? Since works cannot save, if baptism is salvific, that baptism cannot be water baptism, a human work.
There are more than 2 refs to spirit baptism in the Bible. And since 1 cor 12:13 says that all believers have been baptized of the Spirit, every time someone believed, he was baptized of the Spirit.
I indeed baptize you in water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you in the Holy Spirit and in fire: whose fan is in his hand, and he will thoroughly cleanse his threshing-floor; and he will gather his wheat into the garner, but the chaff he will burn up with unquenchable fire.
And John was clothed with camel’s hair, and had a leathern girdle about his loins, and did eat locusts and wild honey. And he preached, saying, There cometh after me he that is mightier than I, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to stoop down and unloose. I baptized you in water; but he shall baptize you in the Holy Spirit.
And as the people were in expectation, and all men reasoned in their hearts concerning John, whether haply he were the Christ; John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but there cometh he that is mightier than I, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you in the Holy Spirit and in fire: whose fan is in his hand, thoroughly to cleanse his threshing-floor, and to gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn up with unquenchable fire.
And I knew him not; but that he should be made manifest to Israel, for this cause came I baptizing in water. And John bare witness, saying, I have beheld the Spirit descending as a dove out of heaven; and it abode upon him. And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize in water, he said unto me, Upon whomsoever thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and abiding upon him, the same is he that baptizeth in the Holy Spirit. And I have seen, and have borne witness that this is the Son of God.
to whom he also showed himself alive after his passion by many proofs, appearing unto them by the space of forty days, and speaking the things concerning the kingdom of God: and, being assembled together with them, he charged them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the promise of the Father, which, said he, ye heard from me: for John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized in the Holy Spirit not many days hence.
Clearly this happened in Acts 2 on the day of Pentecost
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and the rest of the apostles, Brethren, what shall we do? And Peter said unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For to you is the promise, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call unto him. And with many other words he testified, and exhorted them, saying, Save yourselves from this crooked generation.
who shall speak unto thee words, whereby thou shalt be saved, thou and all thy house. And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on them, even as on us at the beginning. And I remembered the word of the Lord, how he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized in the Holy Spirit. If then God gave unto them the like gift as he did also unto us, when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I, that I could withstand God? And when they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then to the Gentiles also hath God granted repentance unto life.
For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of the body, being many, are one body; so also is Christ. For in one Spirit were we all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether bond or free; and were all made to drink of one Spirit. For the body is not one member, but many. If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; it is not therefore not of the body.
In Romans 6 there is baptism into Christ (as opposed to water), which is probably the same as Spirit baptism, as the latter puts one into the Body of Christ.
As to Eph 4, no water is mentioned there, & the passage is not counting beans or baptisms but saying that all Christians have the same baptism, which must be spirit baptism, as some Christians have not been baptized with water. Many, many times salvation is offered just for believing/faith, so water baptism cannot be essential to salvation. Thus when a man trusts Christ as Savior, he is spirit baptized, but has some interval of time before water baptized, though he may die first in some instances.
Eph also says:
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, not of works lest anyone should boast.
This excludes water baptism as saving, as it is a human work. Wherever baptism is salvific, it cannot be water baptism.
X
wow dude the Lord Jesus Christ baptizes with the holy spirit. do not be deceived.
◄ John 3:7 ►
That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7"Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born again.' 8"The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit
◄ John 3:7 ►
That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7"Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born again.' 8"The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit
Here's a site that give you full understanding of Baptism: Mikveh – A Hebraic Understanding of Biblical Immersion part 1, 2 | Wisdom In Torah - Members Only Blog
R
yes and if we do believe on the lord we will believe his word, the whole word.. his word in acts chapter 2 verse 38 peter says to be baptized in jesus name for the remission of sins.. its that simple that plain black and white but no matter what people choose to still say baptism is not needed for salvation.. well peter says it is. who you gonna believe peter and gods word people
1) Yes
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
2) Immersion
It pictures our death, burial and resurrection. The death and burial of the old man and the resurrection of a new creature in Christ...
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
3) As Thomist said, we are baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Addendum:
The minster should ask if you have repented of your sins and your answer had better be a truthful yes. No one wants to lie to the Holy Spirit.
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
2) Immersion
It pictures our death, burial and resurrection. The death and burial of the old man and the resurrection of a new creature in Christ...
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
3) As Thomist said, we are baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Addendum:
The minster should ask if you have repented of your sins and your answer had better be a truthful yes. No one wants to lie to the Holy Spirit.
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But there is this...
Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Yes He REALLY did mean for us to obey Him and His Commandments...
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
2
Loving with all your heart and soul and mind Gods word is essential to salvation.
if a person doesn't have the love to do what God even SUGGESTS,
in every part of the Bible,
then that person is NOT in love with God and his word,
and is NOT married to him,
and does not have what it takes to be happy in heaven,
and God wold never put him there and make him miserable... you know there is no cell phone internet TV chicken steak beer movies or anything else gratuitous to self entertainment there, it is all complete work to help others FREELY!
complete self sacrifice to do what God wants always ignoring EVERYTHING what we want (covetousness).
Arguing about the requirements to get to heaven already disqualifies a person, for they dont WANT TO DO what God suggests so they arent Gods bride.
Knowing our selfish wANTS saatan invented religions religions come along and say you can live what pleaes YOU! this is babylon.
He says that you maydo what you feel like doing and God died so you could!
...
even to desire such a life proves you arent born again and married to Jesus the word.
and will cause more christian to be lost than any other false doctrine.
Telling them ther are REQUIREMENTS
and that they arent going the way they are
wakes them up
makes them go to God
search see
and finally fall in love with him
once saved with a word always saved
does NOT make people who would give up their lives to do right
it just doesnt
and they wont
ad they wont be there.
no reall love for the truth and for God because they were not taught to seek for it
everyone who seeks even a little
will find the deep love of God to the point
where he suggest we should be baptised
would walk on foot across the USA and climb Mount ranier to be baptised
those people will go to heaven
the arguers are going to be unpleasantly surprsed
they dont love God
they dont love the word and DO it with all their heart and soul and strength
and they are going to hear this.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that [DO YOUR OWN RELIGION-DO YOUR OWN THING (which is what iniquity is) work iniquity.
Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
if a person doesn't have the love to do what God even SUGGESTS,
in every part of the Bible,
then that person is NOT in love with God and his word,
and is NOT married to him,
and does not have what it takes to be happy in heaven,
and God wold never put him there and make him miserable... you know there is no cell phone internet TV chicken steak beer movies or anything else gratuitous to self entertainment there, it is all complete work to help others FREELY!
complete self sacrifice to do what God wants always ignoring EVERYTHING what we want (covetousness).
Arguing about the requirements to get to heaven already disqualifies a person, for they dont WANT TO DO what God suggests so they arent Gods bride.
Knowing our selfish wANTS saatan invented religions religions come along and say you can live what pleaes YOU! this is babylon.
He says that you maydo what you feel like doing and God died so you could!
...
even to desire such a life proves you arent born again and married to Jesus the word.
and will cause more christian to be lost than any other false doctrine.
Telling them ther are REQUIREMENTS
and that they arent going the way they are
wakes them up
makes them go to God
search see
and finally fall in love with him
once saved with a word always saved
does NOT make people who would give up their lives to do right
it just doesnt
and they wont
ad they wont be there.
no reall love for the truth and for God because they were not taught to seek for it
everyone who seeks even a little
will find the deep love of God to the point
where he suggest we should be baptised
would walk on foot across the USA and climb Mount ranier to be baptised
those people will go to heaven
the arguers are going to be unpleasantly surprsed
they dont love God
they dont love the word and DO it with all their heart and soul and strength
and they are going to hear this.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that [DO YOUR OWN RELIGION-DO YOUR OWN THING (which is what iniquity is) work iniquity.
Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
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Yes, I fully agree that water baptism IS IMPORTANT for every new believer...........BUT it is NOT what cleanses us of our sin, or gives us salvation.
People who preach Acts 2:38 almost ALWAYS leave out "REPENT..........." Why? Well because that doesn't fit their ideology.
It us upon repentance that the precious blood of Jesus shed on Calvary's Cross is applied cleansing us of our sins. This conversion is a SPIRITUAL event. Man (with his eyes) cannot SEE this Spiritual change in a new believers life/heart/spirit.
Thus water baptism is important, for it SERVES as a declaration by the new believer to the Church and to the world that they have become a believer in and follower of Jesus Christ...........it is a symbolic "work" (and should be the first work after salvation) of the Spiritual conversion of a new believer. This is why it is very important. Jesus said to do it, and Jesus said HOW to do it........either we obey His Commandment, or we don't..........choice is (as always) ours.
Our Spiritual burial with Jesus and our Spiritual resurrection with Jesus CANNOT be seen with the human eye........thus water baptism becomes the "visible" symbol of this event.
God bless
People who preach Acts 2:38 almost ALWAYS leave out "REPENT..........." Why? Well because that doesn't fit their ideology.
It us upon repentance that the precious blood of Jesus shed on Calvary's Cross is applied cleansing us of our sins. This conversion is a SPIRITUAL event. Man (with his eyes) cannot SEE this Spiritual change in a new believers life/heart/spirit.
Thus water baptism is important, for it SERVES as a declaration by the new believer to the Church and to the world that they have become a believer in and follower of Jesus Christ...........it is a symbolic "work" (and should be the first work after salvation) of the Spiritual conversion of a new believer. This is why it is very important. Jesus said to do it, and Jesus said HOW to do it........either we obey His Commandment, or we don't..........choice is (as always) ours.
Our Spiritual burial with Jesus and our Spiritual resurrection with Jesus CANNOT be seen with the human eye........thus water baptism becomes the "visible" symbol of this event.
God bless