Galatians & Keeping The Commandments - Was Paul Anti-Torah?

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mcubed

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The Bible is full of debatable issues (healing, prosperity, the Law for all man kind, who is a Jew, did the church replace Israel..... and so on) some of us know we have it figured out beyond the shadow of a doubt. But not one of them are salvation issues. You know the Bible says that the Holy Spirit reviles the mysteries of G-d. And He did From Genesis to Revelation... all 66 Books revile that Yeshua is the only way unto Salvation.Yeshua was the mystery!!! He is 100% G-d, 100% man (The G-d Man), He died on the Cross as the once and for all final sacrifice for ALL MANKIND, He was dead for 3 days, rose from the grave, and He IS RETURNING. Never debatable! All the rest makes us search the Word and drawls us closer to Him and are not redemption issues. However, they are fun to debate; like I said before when Yeshua returns He will revile where we missed it on all of these other issues and where we got it right.
 
A

ASSIYAH

Guest
The Bible is full of debatable issues (healing, prosperity, the Law for all man kind, who is a Jew, did the church replace Israel..... and so on) some of us know we have it figured out beyond the shadow of a doubt. But not one of them are salvation issues. You know the Bible says that the Holy Spirit reviles the mysteries of G-d. And He did From Genesis to Revelation... all 66 Books revile that Yeshua is the only way unto Salvation.Yeshua was the mystery!!! He is 100% G-d, 100% man (The G-d Man), He died on the Cross as the once and for all final sacrifice for ALL MANKIND, He was dead for 3 days, rose from the grave, and He IS RETURNING. Never debatable! All the rest makes us search the Word and drawls us closer to Him and are not redemption issues. However, they are fun to debate; like I said before when Yeshua returns He will revile where we missed it on all of these other issues and where we got it right.
VERY GOOD!
 
C

charisenexcelcis

Guest
The Bible is full of debatable issues (healing, prosperity, the Law for all man kind, who is a Jew, did the church replace Israel..... and so on) some of us know we have it figured out beyond the shadow of a doubt. But not one of them are salvation issues. You know the Bible says that the Holy Spirit reviles the mysteries of G-d. And He did From Genesis to Revelation... all 66 Books revile that Yeshua is the only way unto Salvation.Yeshua was the mystery!!! He is 100% G-d, 100% man (The G-d Man), He died on the Cross as the once and for all final sacrifice for ALL MANKIND, He was dead for 3 days, rose from the grave, and He IS RETURNING. Never debatable! All the rest makes us search the Word and drawls us closer to Him and are not redemption issues. However, they are fun to debate; like I said before when Yeshua returns He will revile where we missed it on all of these other issues and where we got it right.
I agree. (By the way, another regretable typo: reveal not revile)
 
C

Cup-of-Ruin

Guest
The Kethuvim (Writings), the Nevi'im (Prophets), and the Brit Chadasha all teach that the remnant of Israel is already a part of the remnant of Judah.
Israel was divorced Judah was not; "Then I saw that for all the causes for which backsliding Israel had comitted adultery, I put her away and given her a certificate of divorce, yet her treacherous sister Judah did not fear, but went and played the Harlot also." Jeremiah 3:8

Israel being divorced can only remarry under God's law if the husband dies, Christ died allowing Israel to become the bride, betrothed as a Christian, reunited with Judah under Covenant Hebrews 8:8, Jeremiah 31:31-37.
Yeshua and Sha'ul used the terms Israel and Jews interchangeably.
Thats impossible, "Jew" is Judean, the southern state of Judea as oppossed to Israel which was the northern state, Israel were divorced, Judah was not, otherwise Jesus would have been illigitimate, born of a divorced woman, but Judah was not divorced and Judah knew this, 'Jew' is not even interchangeable for Judah, all three are different words with different meanings.

It seems clear that the regathering of Israel was referring to an end times event and referred to both houses, Judah and Israel, who were already reunited at that point. We need to look at all of Scripture what does it teach.
"James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting." James 1:1

James here greets united Israel as the twelve tribes united in Christ, sheep regathered that were scattered, Jesus found all His sheep.

Israel divided into two kingdoms somewhere around 926 BCE when the house of Israel rebelled against King Rehoboam. But Scripture does show Israel back within Judah -- some had never left, and some returned prior to the Babylonian captivity. IIChronicles 11:16-17, 30:9-12 34:9)
the ten tribes of Israel did not return from Assyrian Captivity, you should know that.

The Kethuvim (Writings) in Scripture certainly shows Israel's presence within the land and among Judah. They may not have remained faithful at times, but they were present. The Nevi'im (Prophets) also indicate Israel's presence among Judah:
"Then He said to me, "The iniquity of the house of Israel and Judah is very, very great, and the land is filled with blood and the city is full of perversion; for they say, 'YHVH has forsaken the land, and YHVH does not see!'" Ezekiel 9:9
Ahhh, but remember Ezekiel prophecises in Babylonia amongst the captivity, he is in the land of the Chaldeans like Daniel. Isaiah and Jeremiah prohecised in the land of Judea.

If Israel is scattered elsewhere at the time of this prophecy, then why is she included here as being within the land also? Ezekiel prophesied until about 590 BCE -- He was taken to Babylon during the first Babylonian attack on Jerusalem in 597 BCE. Yet he records both houses are in the land of Israel at the time he is writing. Ezekiel 8:9-13
Yes and he seperates them and he is prophecising in Babylon! Not in Judea.

"Artaxerxes, king of kings, to Ezra the priest, the scribe of the law of the God of heaven, perfect peace. And now I have issued a decree that any of the people of Israel and their priests and the Levites in my kingdom who are willing to go to Jerusalem, may go with you." Ezra 7:12,13
That's Artaxerxes writing in Chaldean, and he refers to Jacob/Israel, its like saying the sons of Jacob/Israel or the prosperity of Jacob/Israel, Judah is a son of Jacob/Israel.

"The exiles who had come from the captivity offered burnt offerings to the God of Israel: 12 bulls for all Israel, 96 rams, 77 lambs, 12 male goats for a sin offering, all as a burnt offering to YHVH." Ezra 8:35
Now, did all of Israel return? No. And did all of Judah return? No. Yet no one is spending a lot of time researching where the "Lost House of Judah" is today. G-d kept a remnant of Israel and Judah -- and that remnant did return.
Again, its a letter from a Babylonian king, the Babylonian captivity returned, but not the Assyrian, the ten tribes of Israel (North Samaria) were conquered by Assyria, the southern state of Judea (Judah) was conquered by Babylon, Judah returned out of Babylon, Israel did not return out of Assyria, they went north up the Euphrates and into Europe as I explained previously.

Throughout Ezra and Nehemiah, we see both the terms Jews and Israel being used so often, sometimes even interchangeably. In fact, the term Israel is used more often than Jews in Ezra. "These came with Zerubbabel, Jeshua, Nehemiah, Seraiah, Reelaiah, Mordecai, Bilshan, Mispar, Bigvai, Rehum and Baanah. The number of the men of the people of Israel:" Ezra 2:2 "Now the priests and the Levites, some of the people, the singers, the gatekeepers and the temple servants lived in their cities, and all Israel in their cities. Now when the seventh month came, and the sons of Israel were in the cities, the people gathered together as one man to Jerusalem." Ezra 2:70, 3:1 G-d has already promised to keep 'she'erit Yisrael' -- a remnant of Israel in spite of the fact that sometimes Israel went astray. YHVH assures us: "Now in that day the remnant of Israel, and those of the house of Jacob who have escaped, will never again rely on the one who struck them, but will truly rely on YHVH, the Holy One of Israel. A remnant will return, the remnant of Jacob, to the mighty God. For though your people, O Israel, may be like the sand of the sea, Only a remnant within them will return; A destruction is determined, overflowing with righteousness. For a complete destruction, one that is decreed, the Lord YHVH of hosts will execute in the midst of the whole land. " Isaiah 10:20-23
The remant that returned, returned from Babylon, Judah returned from babylon to Judea, they were 'sons of Israel (Jacob)', because Judah was not divorced, the ten tribes were, God calls them the 'house of Israel' as oppossed to the 'house of Judah'.

Yes, the Tribes are scattered: Zechariah 1:18-21 and will be brought back together Isaiah 11:11-13 Note that this regathering in Isaiah is referring to the diaspora of Israelites/Jews. Many from Israel/Judah have been dispersed all around the world since before the first century. It seems obvious this prophecy isn't about 'finding the lost tribes' but about G-d's regathering of His remnant
Well this is a contradiction from what you have said earlier, first you say the union has already happened, and and the ten tribes were not lost but returned and were one and the same with Judah, then you say they did not and they are scattered and the union is to come in the future, well which one is it? You can't have it both ways. Remember the 12 tribes were scattered before AD 70, because James wrote before AD 45, and the 12 tribes are scattered then, as Jesus said He would scatter His sheep in Jerusalem before the sacking of Jerusalem, Jesus' sheep heeded His prophecy and left, they were all on mission after the crucifixtion, they left, Judah left as Christians, only false 'Jews' were left when Rome sacked Jerusalem, a "Jew" is just a subject or slave of the land of Judea, true Judah left as their Lord commanded them to.

Now, if the Gentiles were the "lost tribes" then they wouldn't be of the uncircumcision but of the circumcision; further, they wouldn't have been strangers to the covenants since their forefathers received them along with Judah. Why mention in Ephesians 2:15 that G-d was creating "one new man" when it would really be just the same old Israel comprised of the same 12 tribes. The reason Shaul is writing this in Ephesians is because it isn't about "lost tribes" rejoining but about non-Israelite Gentiles being brought in. This was the mystery Sha'ul taught throughout his epistles, that non-Israelites were being given a chance to partake of the same covenants Israel had been given!
Israel once divorced was to become blind to her identity Isaiah 42:16-19, they were alienated from the old covenant which included circumcision, they are re-united under the New Covenant. Paul writes from the tribe of Judah to Israel, we have all the historical records of the travels of the ten tribes of Israel after the Assyrian Captivity. Ephesians are descended from the ten lost tribes, remember Israel was to be numerous like the sands of the sea, and many nations. The Epistle of Ephesians is all about the breach that Christ heals between Judah and divorced Israel who found grace in the wilderness;

"Thus saith the Lord, the people that were left of the sword found grace in the wilderness; even Israel when I went to cause him to rest" Jeremiah 31:2

"For by grace you are saved through faith; and that not of yourselves; it is a gift of God." Ephesians 2:8

"For he is our peace, Who hath made both (two) one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us" Ephesians 2:14

And this is by the blood of Christ, Israel is reunited with Judah under the New Covenant of the blood of Christ, that is what Paul is saying.
 
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charisenexcelcis

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I don't think that Cup-of-Rain gets it....
 
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Graybeard

Guest
"James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting." James 1:1

James here greets united Israel as the twelve tribes united in Christ, sheep regathered that were scattered, Jesus found all His sheep.
Don't you see!!
James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting." James 1:1]

which ARE..present tense
not WERE..past tense
 
C

Cup-of-Ruin

Guest
Don't you see!!
James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting." James 1:1]

which ARE..present tense
not WERE..past tense
I see it very clearly as I said, James was writing before AD 45, Judah had left Judea before the sacking of Jerusalem by the Romans, the 'Jews' that remained were Edomite Herodians, they did not follow the Lord, neither did they recognize Him, because they were not His sheep, true Judah converted to Christianity and left seeking out the lost sheep of divorced Israel and a large portion of the tribe of Dan who had gone out even earlier first settling in Troy.

Don't you see that the Jewish Dispora takes place after AD 70, however the twelve tribes had already left, only those who were not Judah remained in Jerusalem, they were called 'Jews' - Judeans by state alone, not children of the inheritence. We can follow where these Jews went after AD 70, just as we can follow the movements of Judah and Israel in their conversion to Christianity, the missions the early Church and then Israel united the covenant people who took the Gospel of the Lord's salvation to the ends of the earth like it was prophecised they would (Isaiah 49:3-6).
 
Dec 19, 2009
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The Bible is full of debatable issues (healing, prosperity, the Law for all man kind, who is a Jew, did the church replace Israel..... and so on) some of us know we have it figured out beyond the shadow of a doubt. But not one of them are salvation issues. You know the Bible says that the Holy Spirit reviles the mysteries of G-d. And He did From Genesis to Revelation... all 66 Books revile that Yeshua is the only way unto Salvation.Yeshua was the mystery!!! He is 100% G-d, 100% man (The G-d Man), He died on the Cross as the once and for all final sacrifice for ALL MANKIND, He was dead for 3 days, rose from the grave, and He IS RETURNING. Never debatable! All the rest makes us search the Word and drawls us closer to Him and are not redemption issues. However, they are fun to debate; like I said before when Yeshua returns He will revile where we missed it on all of these other issues and where we got it right.
You should clarify Jesus was God the Son, not God full stop. People may believe Jesus was God the Father from your words, this is not Biblical
 
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