ONCE saved always saved!.

[newbirth]

Originally Posted by Atwood

No, it is works in general; in particular we must rest from trying to establish our own righteousness.
The principle is the same regardless if the commandments are of Moses, of the Lord Jesus on earth, or in the epistles. The recommended rest goes back to God at creation; & God did not rest from the Mosaic law, but stopped activity. No human activities/works can save. But coming up against God's demands should drive us to Christ to trust Him as Savior. Rest in the Savior; cease any attempt to work your way to salvation.

You think that way because you don't know how you are saved. You are saved BY GRACE that is free THROUGH FAITH..not by faith as you continually point out. It's like receiving an inheritance left by a relative for you but you have to go through the legal process to obtain the end result.You are not working for it ,since it is yours but you are working none the less. The thing is even though it is yours you will never get it if you don't go through that process.

What the Lord is telling us in Eph 2 is that anyone who is saved is saved because of his faith, not because of his works, whatever those works may be, for if a man were saved by works, he would have something to boast about, whether the works were based on Moses or gentile morality.

Twice it says we are saved by Grace but he goes on to say through faith not of works. So we know works cannot save. But vs ten says...[SUP]
10 [/SUP]For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

So here it is saying the proof of your new creation is good works which God had ordained for us to do. So it is established the work that you are doing did not save you. But if you don't do them it is a sign you are being disobedient to being created unto good works

In the case of Abe there was no Law of Moses; so when it says, "to him who does not work," the work is not specifically the commandments of Moses, who was not yet born.

But why do you go on about this? NewB, haven't you yet gotten it thru your skull that the Lord Jesus is the Savior, not you or I ?

So you claim you are righteous like the Pharisee, instead of taking the position of the Publican? God be merciful to me a sinner? You can't admit that you are such a miserable sinner that you must be saved by God's grace?




The error of the legalist is trying to establish his own righteousness, whether it be by Moses or by any standard of ethics. When you take that self-righteous road, you seek to establish your own righteousness and not not subject yourself to God's righteousness. The point is not that it is proper to establish your own righteousness, as long as you don't do it by Moses. Trying to establish your own righteousness for salvation is an error of pride that leads to the Lake of Fire.

so my friend I am not trying to establish my righteousness

 

[DiscipleDave]

Or know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with men, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye were washed, but ye were sanctified, but ye were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God.

WERE. Are you not seeing the word WERE some of you. That means no longer. If a person fornicates they are a fornicator, it is only when they cease to fornicate can they say they were a fornicator.
This is what you want the verse to say:

Or know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with men, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such ARE some of you: but ye were washed, but ye were sanctified, but ye were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God.

Now if the verse said that, then Once Saved Always Saved would have at least ONE Scripture which backs up that belief. But the verse does not say that, it says "were some of you" that means no longer those things. Are you suggesting that if a Saved person lives in fornication that they are NOT a fornicator? Is that what you are seriously trying to pass off as Truth? You do error. A person who fornicates is a fornicator. They can't possibly say they were a fornicator UNTIL they cease from fornicating.

Here is what the Scriptures says:

I Cor 6: 9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such WERE some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
That is the Truth.

^i^

 

[Atwood]

Once Saved, Saved!

This is what you want the verse to say:

Or know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with men, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye were washed, but ye were sanctified, but ye were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God.

Do not be telling me what I want scripture to say!

"Thou shalt call His name Jesus,
for He shall save His people from their sins."

If anyone reading this, has reduced the Savior to a "chance-giver,"
repent, and trust Him as your only & sufficient Savior."

"I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish."

 

[DiscipleDave]

Re: Once Saved, Saved!

Or know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with men, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye were washed, but ye were sanctified, but ye were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God.

Do not be telling me what I want scripture to say!

"Thou shalt call His name Jesus,
for He shall save His people from their sins."

If anyone reading this, has reduced the Savior to a "chance-giver,"
repent, and trust Him as your only & sufficient Savior."

"I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish."

i will agree with what you are teaching, and no longer believe the Truth as i know it, if you explain to me something.

When a person accepts Jesus Christ as their Savior and Lord, their names are written in the Book of Life, correct? i think we all can agree to the Truth of that if not, here are some references Once you are Saved, your name is written in the Book of life (Phil 4:3, Rev 13:8, 17:8, 20:12-15, 21:27, 22:19), now if you would be so kind can you explain to me and those who are reading this thread how is it the Bible talks about being removed from the Book of Life? i mean if ONce you are Saved and your name is written in the Book of life, why are there Scriptures which teach/imply that a persons name can be REMOVED from the Book of Life? please explain that if you are able too.

Exodus 32:33 And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

interesting so God can erase things out of His Book, interesting,

Revelations 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Interesting again, God can take a persons part out of the Book of Life, maybe a name?

Revelations 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Interesting again. Jesus Himself just made a reference to being able to blot out a name in the Book of Life. Now my question is this. IF once a persons name is written in the Book of Life (Saved) why does Scriptures teach it can be removed? i mean if a person gets Saved their name is written in the Book of Life and they will ALWAYS BE SAVED according to what you are teaching, how can Jesus blot out a name that is written in that Book? Surely you are not so blind you can't see that your teaching is flawed. Don't believe me, study the Word of God more, read it many times so you too can come to the Truth and realize that OSAS is a lie and is not Scriptural, it is a teaching that satan teaches to get people to think they are OK even though they still live in sins, because no matter what they do, they can't be blotted out of the Book of Life. Do you see the lie here or choose to continue to believe as you do?

^i^

 

[Ukorin]

Re: Once Saved, Saved!

i will agree with what you are teaching, and no longer believe the Truth as i know it, if you explain to me something.

When a person accepts Jesus Christ as their Savior and Lord, their names are written in the Book of Life, correct? i think we all can agree to the Truth of that if not, here are some references Once you are Saved, your name is written in the Book of life (Phil 4:3, Rev 13:8, 17:8, 20:12-15, 21:27, 22:19), now if you would be so kind can you explain to me and those who are reading this thread how is it the Bible talks about being removed from the Book of Life? i mean if ONce you are Saved and your name is written in the Book of life, why are there Scriptures which teach/imply that a persons name can be REMOVED from the Book of Life? please explain that if you are able too.

Exodus 32:33 And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

interesting so God can erase things out of His Book, interesting,

Revelations 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Interesting again, God can take a persons part out of the Book of Life, maybe a name?

Revelations 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Interesting again. Jesus Himself just made a reference to being able to blot out a name in the Book of Life. Now my question is this. IF once a persons name is written in the Book of Life (Saved) why does Scriptures teach it can be removed? i mean if a person gets Saved their name is written in the Book of Life and they will ALWAYS BE SAVED according to what you are teaching, how can Jesus blot out a name that is written in that Book? Surely you are not so blind you can't see that your teaching is flawed. Don't believe me, study the Word of God more, read it many times so you too can come to the Truth and realize that OSAS is a lie and is not Scriptural, it is a teaching that satan teaches to get people to think they are OK even though they still live in sins, because no matter what they do, they can't be blotted out of the Book of Life. Do you see the lie here or choose to continue to believe as you do?

^i^

Are you sure our names were not written at birth, then blotted out when we first sinned?
(or written before the creation is possible, because God knows all)

We do not know that the names are written at salvation, but we do know that the names of the saved will be found there submitted and unblotted.

If you are correct, does God unblot names?
He'd tear though the paper to be sure with all the blotting and erasing blots.

There is only one eraser: the Blood of Christ.
There is one salvation.
If we lose it, Christ cannot be recrucified. If you claim it can be lost, then be sure that it also cannot be regained.

 

[Atwood]

Once Saved, Saved!

Revelations 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Interesting again, God can take a persons part out of the Book of Life, maybe a name?

Revelations 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and [/COLOR]I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
^i^

You quote a corrupt text of Revelation 22:19. "Book of Life" is not there.

BTW, there is no book in the Bible called "Revelations."

The believer, every believer (simply for believing) is thus an overcomer, and has the promise that his name will never be blotted out!

THE OVERCOMER
Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and
I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father…

1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of the throne saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he shall dwell with them, and they shall be his peoples, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God: and he shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death shall be no more; neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more: the first things are passed away. And he that sitteth on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he saith, Write: for these words are faithful and true. And he said unto me, They are come to pass. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
He who overcomes shall inherit these things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part shall be in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.

Jehovah redeems the soul of his servants;
And none of them who take refuge in him shall be condemned.

Ps 52
But as for me, I am like a green olive-tree in the house of God:
I trust in the lovingkindness of God for ever and ever.
I will give thee thanks for ever, because thou hast done it;

1 Thes 5 end:
"And the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is He Who calls you, Who will also do it.

Col 3
When Christ, who is our life, shall be manifested, then you also with him shall be manifested in glory.

2 Thes 2:16
Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace,

End of Rom 8:
And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good, even to them that are called according to his purpose. For whom
he foreknew,
he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom
he foreordained, them
he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom
he justified, them
he also glorified.

31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? 3He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not also with him freely give us all things? Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth; who is he that condemneth? It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Even as it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

< 1 Pet 1
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

< 2 Tim 4:18
The Lord will deliver me from every evil work, and will save me unto his heavenly kingdom;

Rm 6:23b
the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

John 6:37
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.

John 10:28
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, . . . .

John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

2 Corinthians 1:22
And who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
Romans 11:29
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
Philippians 1:6
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

If any reading this has diminished the Savior to a mere "chance-giver,"
you are urged to repent now & trust Him as your only & sufficient Savior.

 

[Atwood]

so my friend I am not trying to establish my righteousness

Acts 15:8 cleansing their hearts by faith

I would not quibble over prepositions "through" and "by."

 

[newbirth]

Acts 15:8 cleansing their hearts by faith

I would not quibble over prepositions "through" and "by."

you would not because they show you your error...
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

For ( through the medium) of grace are ye saved (continuing in time toward completion of) faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

 

[Kerry]

Paul constantly says those that endure to the end.

 

[Atwood]

Paul constantly says those that endure to the end.

Let's see the proof of that one, Kerry. But surely by now you should know that the doctrine of Eternal Security states that the saved endure to the end. That is the point of the doctrine!

What have you against trusting the Lord Jesus as your Savior instead of you mere "chance-giver"?

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins."

 

[Atwood]

you would not because they show you your error...
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

For ( through the medium) of grace are ye saved (continuing in time toward completion of) faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Acts 15:8 cleansing their hearts by faith

I guess you ignored my example, NewB.

What is the proof that your additions are correct? I don't find them in my Bible. Don't add to God's word, NewB. Saved is complete right now. Actually in Greek it says "are having been saved." It is a perfect tense, the tense that implies something happened in the past with results in the present.

So what is it Dear NewB,

Are you determined (hell-bent) to deny Christ as your Savior, so you can make Him a mere chance-giver?

Trust Him now as Savior.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

 

[newbirth]

Acts 15:8 cleansing their hearts by faith

I guess you ignored my example, NewB.

What is the proof that your additions are correct? I don't find them in my Bible. Don't add to God's word, NewB. Saved is complete right now. Actually in Greek it says "are having been saved." It is a perfect tense, the tense that implies something happened in the past with results in the present.

So what is it Dear NewB,

Are you determined (hell-bent) to deny Christ as your Savior, so you can make Him a mere chance-giver?

Trust Him now as Savior.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

they are not additions just the definition of the words by an through.....through is a continuing action...by shows the medium through the action was done. so nothing has changed. Of course we Have been saved and got baptised for the remission of sins......And received the gift of the holy spirit...........Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. But we are still being saved. That is why we have to live right...
I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,....
That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;
That ye would walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto his kingdom and glory.
And we shall be saved...
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Now I hope you see the love of many shall wax cold.....He has to be talking about those who loved him growing cold..but he that endure unto the end shall be saved (that is those who did not grow cold and continued to love him) Here he is showing believers growing cold with the possibility of not enduring to the end...

 

[Richie_2uk]

Well at least we all know who are the derailers of threads on here then, LOL.

 

[Jason0047]

While it is true that believers cannot lose their salvation, on the other hand, they can forfeit their salvation (i.e. they can willingly throw it away by rebelling against God). In fact,


Here is a list of believers who have forfeited their salvation:

• Saul (1 Samuel 16:14) (1 Samuel 31:4

• Demas (2 Timothy 4:10)

• The Prodigal Son (Luke 15:11-32)

• Judas Iscariot (Psalm 41:9) (Luke 6:16) (Acts 1:25)

• Simon the Sorcerer (Acts 8:13) (Acts 8:18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23)

• Hymenaeus and Philetus (2 Timothy 2:17, 18)

• Unnamed Christians destroyed by false teaching (2 Timothy 2:17, 18)

• Many Unnamed Disciples (John 6:66)

• Some Younger Christian Widows (1 Timothy 5:14, 15)

• Some Christians Eager For Money (1 Timothy 6:8, 9, 10)

• Ananias and Sapphira (Acts 5:1-11)

• Balaam (Numbers chapters 22, 23, 24) (Numbers 31:8) (Joshua 13:22) (Jude 1:11)

And here is a list of potential fallen believers:

• The Servant Who is Not Looking For Him (Luke 12:45, 46)

• Recent Convert Who is a Potential Spiritual Leader (1 Timothy 3:6)

• The Unforgiving in Heart (Matthew 6:14, 15)

• Luke Warm Unrepentant Believer (Revelation 3:14-22)

• Fruitless Christians (John 15:1-10) (Matthew 25:14-30)

• Widows That Live in Pleasure (1 Timothy 5:5, 6)

• Believers Whose Seed Fell Upon the Rocks (Luke 8:13)

• Believers Whose Seed Was Choked by Thorns (Matthew 13:22)

• Gentile Believer Who Did Not Have on a Wedding Garment (Matthew 22:1-14) (Revelation 19:7, 8)

• The Potential Fellow Believer Who Erred From the Truth & Was Converted Back
  (James 5:19, 20)

For Jesus is the Light and we are to shine the Light of Christ within our lives. For there are those who think they can serve Jesus and also live for oneself, sin, and evil; But this is wrong, though. "For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God" (John 3:20-21).

 

[Jason0047]

Forced Love:

Now, if you believe in "Eternal Security" or "OSAS" (Once Saved Always Saved) you believe God saves you and that there is nothing you could ever do that could jeopardize your standing with Him. That once you accept God, you are then forced into a relationship that you can't break out of. You are trapped. Your free will is no longer. You can't leave. Once you check in, you can't check out. God has forced His love upon you because of your one choice to believe in Him for your salvation.


Such a notion sounds absolutely ridiculous. But this is what you must believe if your a proponent of "Eternal Security". I mean, have you ever watched one of those movies about a girl who had a crush on a guy, which quickly turned into a forceful or twisted relationship? You know, the movie where boy meets girl, but the boy loses interest, yet the girl doesn't and therefore she forces her love upon him. So things get pretty dark and twisted. This is exactly what proponents of "Eternal Security" have done with God. They have made God out to be this woman who had forced her love upon a man who didn't want her love anymore.


In fact, do you remember the story of David and Bathsheba? David wanted to keep the forbidden love of another man's wife. So he forced a relationship of what he believed to be love by killing her husband (Uriah) so he could be with her in the way that he wanted (or loved). Veritably, there is no doubt in my mind that David might have even loved Bathsheba. However, it was not a love that was his. So David tried to force love in a way that was not natural or good (by permanently eliminating the will of another) (2 Samuel 11:1-27). For that is exactly what "Eternal Security" does. It sets up a loving relationship as if it was something that had to be forced. That once you are saved, you are always saved (no matter what you do or even if you change your mind). Such a notion goes against all logic of what we know about free will and true love.

 

[Tintin]

And yet the opposite belief also has issues. If we're always wondering if we've fallen out of God's grace, we have no divine assurance that we are right with God because of Christ and that we can rest in Him and what He's done for us. And in response, turning from our sin and being obedient unto Him.

 

[Jason0047]

And yet the opposite belief also has issues. If we're always wondering if we've fallen out of God's grace, we have no divine assurance that we are right with God because of Christ and that we can rest in Him and what He's done for us. And in response, turning from our sin and being obedient unto Him.

There are two wrong extremes in the teaching on salvation today. On one end of the spectrum, one wrong extreme is Antinomianism, which is usually associated with OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved), or Eternal Security. This very popular form of teaching says that the moral law does not apply to the believer today. That a believer can live in an unrepentant sinful lifestyle and they can still make it up into Heaven because Jesus took away all their future sins magically somehow. But this is a life of serving God and the pleasure of one's own sin. But Jesus said you cannot serve two masters. For you will hate the one and love the other. On other opposite side of the spectrum, the other wrong extreme is Legalism. This is the belief that you can't be saved right here and right now in the present moment by Jesus Christ by repenting of your sins and accepting Him as your personal Savior whereby He gives you a new heart and a changed life (By being born again spiritually in Him). That somehow his sacrifice was not enough to save you after receiving his free gift. That you must also go out next week and do something to be saved, like being baptized, obeying the Saturday Sabbath, and or tithing 10% of your income, etc (i.e. to perfect yourself with the flesh). In addition, many Legalists (not all), also tend to believe that the Old Testament Law of Moses is still in effect today somehow even though there are a ton of verses that tell us the Old Testament has passed away and was replaced by the New Testament (or New Covenant). This is why many of them will say that you have to obey the Saturday Sabbath and or tithe 10% of your income (Otherwise you are not saved). So salvation is a reduced to a certain man made "To do List" and not by the hearing of faith.

Now, the Antinomian believes that there is no way you can't keep all of God's Laws. In fact, some of them falsely believe that the Law of the Old Testament is still in effect today but that it has been superceded by a new kind of faith that allows one to not worry about keeping the Old and New Testament Laws. But the Bible teaches that the Old Covenant has vanished away (Hebrews 8:13); And that the Temple veil had been torn. Also, Jesus said that His blood was shed for the remission of sins for the NEW Testament. The book of Hebrews says that a Testament is not in effect unless there is the death of a testator. In other words, Jesus death began the New Testament (Which replaces the Old Testament).

So then how is one saved? Is salvation in trusting in Jesus and in also rebelling against Him with living for yourself and sin? Or is salvation in going out in perfecting your flesh by performing a certain "To Do List"? It is neither.

Salvation is in repenting or confessing of one's sins and in trusting in Jesus Christ as one's Savior. That is your anchor for salvation. That is why it is not of works. For if you mess up. You throw yourself upon the mercy of God so as to stay within His grace. For a life of holiness and fruitful works in a believers life is just the proof in the pudding that God lives within you. For the works done by a true believer are actually the works of God (or Christ). For Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith. Jesus said that you can do nothing without Him. The true fruit of a believer is not our own fruits but it is the fruits of the Spirit working in your life and confirming you are a child of God. For holiness and works is just the after effect of you having been saved. They are not done for salvation.

Yeah, but how do we know which Laws to keep in the New Testament after we are saved (Which would confirm our salvation)?
Well, the Bible speaks about how there are sins that lead unto death and sins that do not lead unto death (1 John 5:16-18). Sins that lead unto death are those sins that Paul talks about that will cause a person not to inherit the Kingdom of God, such as murder, hate, lust, theft, drunkenness, idolatry, etc. John also mentions these sins in Revelation 21:8. So is this a "To Do List"? No, Paul says love fulfills the Law. In other words, you will naturally keep the Law (i.e. the Moral Law or the New Testament Commands) if you love (See Romans 13:8-10); And you will naturally want to love others because Jesus can give you a new heart of love if you truly repent of your sins and accept Him as your Savior. For a Jesus that would allow you to not repent and or to get away with sin is a false Christ. A Jesus who requires you to not trust in His sacrifice and to go out and do other things so as to be saved is another false Christ. Jesus saves us both in Justification and in Sanctification. We merely respond to His grace by repenting of our sins and then continuing to allow His Spirit to do the good work within us. This way, Jesus gets all the glory, honor, and power in a person's life.

For Paul and James were not against each other.
Paul is telling us that salvation is a transformation of the heart by God (that is a free gift) that happens internally.
James is telling us what a true born again saving faith looks like externally.

Anyways, May God bless you and please be well.

With loving kindness to you all in Christ Jesus,

Sincerely,

~Jason.


...

 

[Tintin]

Amen, Jason. Amen!

 

[SeaBass]

On other opposite side of the spectrum, the other wrong extreme is Legalism. This is the belief that you can't be saved right here and right now in the present moment by Jesus Christ by repenting of your sins and accepting Him as your personal Savior whereby He gives you a new heart and a changed life (By being born again spiritually in Him). That somehow his sacrifice was not enough to save you after receiving his free gift. That you must also go out next week and do something to be saved, like being baptized......
...

Water baptism is essential to salvation, Act 2:38; Jn 3:5; Mk 15:16; Rom 6:3-5; Col 2:12-14; Gal 3:27...

Where is the word "legalism" found in the bible? Where is obeying God's will ever called "legalism" in the bible?

If obeying God's will is "legalism" and disobedience to God's will is sin, then what is man to do?

 

[newbirth]

There are two wrong extremes in the teaching on salvation today. On one end of the spectrum, one wrong extreme is Antinomianism, which is usually associated with OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved), or Eternal Security. This very popular form of teaching says that the moral law does not apply to the believer today. That a believer can live in an unrepentant sinful lifestyle and they can still make it up into Heaven because Jesus took away all their future sins magically somehow. But this is a life of serving God and the pleasure of one's own sin. But Jesus said you cannot serve two masters. For you will hate the one and love the other. On other opposite side of the spectrum, the other wrong extreme is Legalism. This is the belief that you can't be saved right here and right now in the present moment by Jesus Christ by repenting of your sins and accepting Him as your personal Savior whereby He gives you a new heart and a changed life (By being born again spiritually in Him). That somehow his sacrifice was not enough to save you after receiving his free gift. That you must also go out next week and do something to be saved, like being baptized, obeying the Saturday Sabbath, and or tithing 10% of your income, etc (i.e. to perfect yourself with the flesh). In addition, many Legalists (not all), also tend to believe that the Old Testament Law of Moses is still in effect today somehow even though there are a ton of verses that tell us the Old Testament has passed away and was replaced by the New Testament (or New Covenant). This is why many of them will say that you have to obey the Saturday Sabbath and or tithe 10% of your income (Otherwise you are not saved). So salvation is a reduced to a certain man made "To do List" and not by the hearing of faith.

Doctrine of men are always dangerous. A little leaven, leavens the whole batch.

Now, the Antinomian believes that there is no way you can't keep all of God's Laws. In fact, some of them falsely believe that the Law of the Old Testament is still in effect today but that it has been superceded by a new kind of faith that allows one to not worry about keeping the Old and New Testament Laws. But the Bible teaches that the Old Covenant has vanished away (Hebrews 8:13); And that the Temple veil had been torn. Also, Jesus said that His blood was shed for the remission of sins for the NEW Testament. The book of Hebrews says that a Testament is not in effect unless there is the death of a testator. In other words, Jesus death began the New Testament (Which replaces the Old Testament).

So then how is one saved? Is salvation in trusting in Jesus and in also rebelling against Him with living for yourself and sin? Or is salvation in going out in perfecting your flesh by performing a certain "To Do List"? It is neither.

I would stay away from doctrine of men it puts limits on the word of God.

Salvation is in repenting or confessing of one's sins and in trusting in Jesus Christ as one's Savior. That is your anchor for salvation. That is why it is not of works. For if you mess up. You throw yourself upon the mercy of God so as to stay within His grace. For a life of holiness and fruitful works in a believers life is just the proof in the pudding that God lives within you. For the works done by a true believer are actually the works of God (or Christ). For Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith. Jesus said that you can do nothing without Him. The true fruit of a believer is not our own fruits but it is the fruits of the Spirit working in your life and confirming you are a child of God. For holiness and works is just the after effect of you having been saved. They are not done for salvation.

He said you can do nothing without him..He did not say don't do anything....He said you do it but with him...he is in us.
Here are two after effects that you can't have salvation without...

Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Yeah, but how do we know which Laws to keep in the New Testament after we are saved (Which would confirm our salvation)?
Well, the Bible speaks about how there are sins that lead unto death and sins that do not lead unto death (1 John 5:16-18). Sins that lead unto death are those sins that Paul talks about that will cause a person not to inherit the Kingdom of God, such as murder, hate, lust, theft, drunkenness, idolatry, etc. John also mentions these sins in Revelation 21:8. So is this a "To Do List"? No, Paul says love fulfills the Law. In other words, you will naturally keep the Law (i.e. the Moral Law or the New Testament Commands) if you love (See Romans 13:8-10); And you will naturally want to love others because Jesus can give you a new heart of love if you truly repent of your sins and accept Him as your Savior. For a Jesus that would allow you to not repent and or to get away with sin is a false Christ. A Jesus who requires you to not trust in His sacrifice and to go out and do other things so as to be saved is another false Christ. Jesus saves us both in Justification and in Sanctification. We merely respond to His grace by repenting of our sins and then continuing to allow His Spirit to do the good work within us. This way, Jesus gets all the glory, honor, and power in a person's life.

The scripture teaches us how to love and it is a to do list...BTW that is the order in which we learn and add them as we grow.
[SUP]
3 [/SUP]His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to[SUP][c][/SUP] his own glory and excellence,[SUP][d][/SUP] [SUP]4 [/SUP]by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue,[SUP][e][/SUP] and virtue with knowledge, [SUP]6 [/SUP]and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with steadfastness, and steadfastness with godliness, [SUP]7 [/SUP]and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love. [SUP]8 [/SUP]For if these qualities[SUP][f][/SUP] are yours and are increasing, they keep you from being ineffective or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. [SUP]9 [/SUP]For whoever lacks these qualities is so nearsighted that he is blind, having forgotten that he was cleansed from his former sins. [SUP]10 [/SUP]Therefore, brothers,[SUP][g][/SUP] be all the more diligent to confirm your calling and election, for if you practice these qualities you will never fall. [SUP]11 [/SUP]For in this way there will be richly provided for you an entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

For Paul and James were not against each other.
Paul is telling us that salvation is a transformation of the heart by God (that is a free gift) that happens internally.
James is telling us what a true born again saving faith looks like externally.

I would have said spiritually and naturally...Yes....Paul is telling us we are saved by grace through faith...James is telling us faith without works is dead.
...

stay clear from the doctrine of men .....