BEWARE the Lawkeepers

[JaumeJ]

Rom 2:23

Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?

Please, grace only folks, keep in mind those who know Yeshua and observe the laws glory in Yeshua, especially in living as closely to His instructions as is possible. Yes we live in grace, but not grace only, in obedience. I believe the majority of those who claim they believe in living in grace only do obey, but they have been made afraid to admit that obedience to our Father is good.

 

[BradC]

Rom 2:23

Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?

Please, grace only folks, keep in mind those who know Yeshua and observe the laws glory in Yeshua, especially in living as closely to His instructions as is possible. Yes we live in grace, but not grace only, in obedience. I believe the majority of those who claim they believe in living in grace only do obey, but they have been made afraid to admit that obedience to our Father is good.

You continually justify your desire to keep the law, especially the Sabbath. You are one of those who boast of the law, therefore if you break it do you dishonor God? When anyone puts themselves under the law they are obligated to the keep the law and if they break the law they are a transgressor. If you put yourself under the law of keeping the Sabbath and you break the Sabbath then you have become a transgressor of the whole law. But if I put myself under grace I am not obligated in keeping the requirements of the Sabbath nor am I transgressor for doing so. I say it is to do good by not putting myself under the law of the Sabbath as is required by the law, therefore unto me it is not sin but unto you it is sin because you put yourself under the law.

Question: Is Christ the end of the law to everyone who believes, including keeping the Sabbath, or is He not? If Christ is not, then we all must be under the law, including the Sabbath, but if Christ is the end of the law then none of us are obligated in keeping the Sabbath. We are either under the law or under grace, for we can not be under both. We are either under grace and walk by faith justified from the law or we are under the law justified by the deeds of the law. Either imparted righteousness comes by faith through the work of the Spirit or by the work and deeds of the law.

 

[cybertech]

The way I understand the New covenent is that the "law" is the old testament law of Moses. We are no longer under that law. But there obviously are still Commandments given by Jesus and his apostles that we are supposed to follow. Why else would disobeying them be called sin? Keeping the sabbath is not commanded in the New Testament that I know of. So yes, it says we are saved by grace, and to have faith, but as James says "14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?" Read more at https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James+2:14-26&version=NKJV#ihbhhu2AZ5tpm7Dr.99
You can say that it is the faith that saves you, but if you don't have the works to show it, you have no faith. So by extension, you do have to keep the commandments to be saved, because without them, you don't have the faith to be saved. Also, the greatest commandment is to love God with all your heart. Jesus said you will know those who love him because they keep his commandments. Another reason you have to keep the commandments to be saved is becuase repentence is also required for salvation. You cannot repent of sins if you are still living in those sins. You have to discontinue them before asking for forgveness from them and repenting.

 

[2Thewaters]

The new covenant is LOVING the law and keeping it without complaining and it is a delight.

The Jews didnt love it
they thought it a drudgery
they didnt have the love spirit

 

[2Thewaters]

1 "Shout! A full-throated shout! Hold nothing back - a trumpet-blast shout!
Tell my people what's wrong with their lives,
face my family Jacob with their sins!

2 They're busy, busy, busy at worship,
and love studying all about me.
To all appearances they're a nation of right-living people
- law-abiding, God-honoring.
They ask me, 'What's the right thing to do?'
and love having me on their side.

3 But they also complain, 'Why do we fast and you don't look our way?
Why do we humble ourselves and you don't even notice?'
"Well, here's why:
"The bottom line on your 'fast days' is profit.
You drive your employees much too hard.

4 You fast, but at the same time you bicker and fight.
You fast, but you swing a mean fist.
The kind of fasting you do won't get your prayers off the ground.

5 Do you think this is the kind of fast day I'm after: a day to show off humility?
To put on a pious long face and parade around solemnly in black?
Do you call that fasting, a fast day that I, God, would like?

6 "This is the kind of fast day I'm after:
to break the chains of injustice,
get rid of exploitation in the workplace,
free the oppressed, cancel debts.

7 What I'm interested in seeing you do is:
sharing your food with the hungry,
inviting the homeless poor into your homes,
putting clothes on the shivering ill-clad,
being available to your own families.

8 Do this and the lights will turn on,
and your lives will turn around at once.
Your righteousness will pave your way.
The God of glory will secure your passage.

9 Then when you pray, God will answer.
You'll call out for help and I'll say,
'Here I am.' A Full Life in the Emptiest of Places
"If you get rid of unfair practices,
quit blaming victims,
quit gossiping about other people's sins,

10 If you are generous with the hungry
and start giving yourselves to the down-and-out,
Your lives will begin to glow in the darkness,
your shadowed lives will be bathed in sunlight.

11 I will always show you where to go.
I'll give you a full life in the emptiest of places
- firm muscles, strong bones.
You'll be like a well-watered garden,
a gurgling spring that never runs dry.

12 You'll use the old rubble of past lives
to build anew,
rebuild the foundations from out of your past.
You'll be known as those who can fix anything,
restore old ruins,
rebuild and renovate,
make the community livable again.
13 "If you watch your step on the Sabbath
and don't use my holy day for personal advantage,
If you treat the Sabbath as a day of joy,
God's holy day as a celebration,
If you honor it by refusing 'business as usual,'
making money, running here and there -

14 Then you'll be free to enjoy God!
Oh, I'll make you ride high
and soar above it all.

I'll make you feast on the inheritance of your ancestor Jacob."
Yes! God says so!

 

[2Thewaters]

t is not BEWARE THE LAWKEEPERS

it is

BEWARE THE LAWBREAKERS!

 

[JaumeJ]

It is peculiar when people read the posts of those who love to observe the law, who love the law that is, continually say say in so doing we are attempting to justify ourselves.

One more for the deaf, dumb and blind, no one is justified by anything other than the Blood of Yeshua. Deaf because they do not hear what is being said, dumb because when they repeat it, it is distorted to the point of being unrecognizable, and blind because they cannot see with their hearts and accept their very own family as being brethren in the same Salvation. Please when reading posst make an effort to read it all, and understand. Yeshua is Salvation. As a matter of fact, His name translated to English is indeed Salvation.

 

[BradC]

It is peculiar when people read the posts of those who love to observe the law, who love the law that is, continually say say in so doing we are attempting to justify ourselves.

One more for the deaf, dumb and blind, no one is justified by anything other than the Blood of Yeshua. Deaf because they do not hear what is being said, dumb because when they repeat it, it is distorted to the point of being unrecognizable, and blind because they cannot see with their hearts and accept their very own family as being brethren in the same Salvation. Please when reading posst make an effort to read it all, and understand. Yeshua is Salvation. As a matter of fact, His name translated to English is indeed Salvation.

You skirt this issue about putting yourself under the law like it is a plague. You can't put yourself under the law and use grace to do it. You would be horrified if you took yourself from under the law and had to actually put yourself under grace and live by the Spirit. You have talked yourself into living according to the law and doing it by grace instead of what the law prescribes. You take the punishment and condemnation out of breaking the law so that you can live by the deeds of the law without repercussion and that is a deceitful practice and a form of lust that wants to conform to the law. You use Christ and His blood to justify yourself while you live under the law and accuse me of being deaf, dumb and blind because I put myself all the way under grace.

Paul said, 'I am what I am by the grace of God' and not by the law. You want both because you want to please God by living under the law and none of your actions under the law will be justified, for only under grace are we justified in our standing AND in our daily walk of faith. When you fall it is not the law that picks you up, is it the grace of God. So keep living under the law as you wish, but don't think that grace is going to bail you out if you fail. Grace is for those who live humbly by faith in the promises of God and not for those who live under the law for the sake of righteousness, imputed or imparted.

 

[BradC]

t is not BEWARE THE LAWKEEPERS

it is

BEWARE THE LAWBREAKERS!

If we live and walk in the Spirit, we fulfill the law without being under the law. You guys can't understand that because you still have that partial vail over your heart because you have not turned all the way and reading the law of Moses reveals it.

 

[JaumeJ]

Isa 6:9


And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.
Isa 6:10
Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.
Isa 6:11
Then said I, Lord, how long? And he answered, Until the cities be wasted without inhabitant, and the houses without man, and the land be utterly desolate,
Isa 6:12
And the LORD have removed men far away, and there be a great forsaking in the midst of the land.
Isa 6:13
But yet in it shall be a tenth, and it shall return, and shall be eaten: as a teil tree, and as an oak, whose substance is in them, when they cast their leaves: so the holy seed shall be the substance thereof.

 

[JaumeJ]

I suppose I could retire from posting what I believe is the truth, but that would go against my due to Yeshua, Jesus. Please consider the following words from Romans.



Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Rom 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Rom 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Rom 3:29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:

Rom 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.


Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Now I ask that you read and understand the closing teaching. The law is established! This occurred for me when the Holy Spirit entered into me. I cannot earn salvation, for salvation is a free gift, but please do not teach me or others that the law is not established in the hearts of all who believe Yeshua. He also clarifies how it is to be observed for those with eyes to see. Open your hearts to His grace, and the laws become crystal clear. Obey your Master, or do you believe our Savior is not also our Master?

 

[2Thewaters]

It is a big topic and it is wonderful that this thread pops up over and over to expose the false doctrines we have been taught

look at it another way

what is the Law?

God is number one and man is just like us and treat him like you would yourself

now
Why would any sane person who wants a peaceful society ever say you dont have to keep them?


insane, isn't it?

Cant you see the devil when he comes to sell you the brooklyn bridge?

 

[BradC]

If we live and walk in the Spirit, we fulfill the law without being under the law. You guys can't understand that because you still have that partial vail over your heart because you have not turned all the way and reading the law of Moses reveals it.

No one is advocating breaking the law but we advocate fulfilling the law by being lead and walking in the Spirit with no vail over the heart only the liberty wherein Christ has set us free. We are not in bondage to sin that the law requires we keep. Example: The law says 'thou shall not commit adultery' but Christ has set us free from being in bondage to that sin. So we do not keep the law to not commit adultery, but rather, we are lead and walk in the Spirit so that we will not fulfill the lust of the flesh and commit adultery. We are to live by the power of the Spirit that raised Christ from the dead that we should not serve sin. By trying to keep the law of commandments we only serve the law that reveals sin instead of serving Christ through the Spirit fulfilling the law of Christ by faith.

To be able to make that adjustment you have to have the vail completely removed and when the vail is completely removed you will have that liberty where Christ has made you free from the sin associated with keeping the law. We have been made free from sin and the law that makes it exceedingly sinful. We do not need to keep the law to refrain from sin, we need the power of God through the Spirit so that no flesh will receive any glory or benefit when we abstain from sin. To keep the law through the flesh profits nothing but to fulfill the law through the Spirit profits all things (John 6:63, 1 Tim 4:8, Rom 13:14, Gal 5:16, 2 Thes 1:11,12).

To keep the law is not the will of God that we have been given by grace in Christ Jesus.

 

[Jason0047]

There are two wrong extremes in the teaching on salvation today. On one end of the spectrum, one wrong extreme is Antinomianism, which is usually associated with OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved), or Eternal Security. This very popular form of teaching says that the moral law does not apply to the believer today. That a believer can live in an unrepentant sinful lifestyle and they can still make it up into Heaven because Jesus took away all their future sins magically somehow. But this is a life of serving God and the pleasure of one's own sin. But Jesus said you cannot serve two masters. For you will hate the one and love the other. On other opposite side of the spectrum, the other wrong extreme is Legalism. This is the belief that you can't be saved right here and right now in the present moment by Jesus Christ by repenting of your sins and accepting Him as your personal Savior whereby He gives you a new heart and a changed life (By being born again spiritually in Him). That somehow his sacrifice was not enough to save you after receiving his free gift. That you must also go out next week and do something to be saved, like being baptized, obeying the Saturday Sabbath, and or tithing 10% of your income, etc (i.e. to perfect yourself with the flesh). In addition, many Legalists (not all), also tend to believe that the Old Testament Law of Moses is still in effect today somehow even though there are a ton of verses that tell us the Old Testament has passed away and was replaced by the New Testament (or New Covenant). This is why many of them will say that you have to obey the Saturday Sabbath and or tithe 10% of your income (Otherwise you are not saved). So salvation is a reduced to a certain man made "To do List" and not by the hearing of faith.

Now, the Antinomian believes that there is no way you can't keep all of God's Laws. In fact, some of them falsely believe that the Law of the Old Testament is still in effect today but that it has been superceded by a new kind of faith that allows one to not worry about keeping the Old and New Testament Laws. But the Bible teaches that the Old Covenant has vanished away (Hebrews 8:13); And that the Temple veil had been torn. Also, Jesus said that His blood was shed for the remission of sins for the NEW Testament. The book of Hebrews says that a Testament is not in effect unless there is the death of a testator. In other words, Jesus death began the New Testament (Which replaces the Old Testament).

So then how is one saved? Is salvation in trusting in Jesus and in also rebelling against Him with living for yourself and sin? Or is salvation in going out in perfecting your flesh by performing a certain "To Do List"? It is neither.

Salvation is in repenting or confessing of one's sins and in trusting in Jesus Christ as one's Savior. That is your anchor for salvation. That is why it is not of works. For if you mess up. You throw yourself upon the mercy of God so as to stay within His grace. For a life of holiness and fruitful works in a believers life is just the proof in the pudding that God lives within you. For the works done by a true believer are actually the works of God (or Christ). For Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith. Jesus said that you can do nothing without Him. The true fruit of a believer is not our own fruits but it is the fruits of the Spirit working in your life and confirming you are a child of God. For holiness and works is just the after effect of you having been saved. They are not done for salvation.

Yeah, but how do we know which Laws to keep in the New Testament after we are saved (Which would confirm our salvation)?
Well, the Bible speaks about how there are sins that lead unto death and sins that do not lead unto death (1 John 5:16-18). Sins that lead unto death are those sins that Paul talks about that will cause a person not to inherit the Kingdom of God, such as murder, hate, lust, theft, drunkenness, idolatry, etc. John also mentions these sins in Revelation 21:8. So is this a "To Do List"? No, Paul says love fulfills the Law. In other words, you will naturally keep the Law (i.e. the Moral Law or the New Testament Commands) if you love (See Romans 13:8-10); And you will naturally want to love others because Jesus can give you a new heart of love if you truly repent of your sins and accept Him as your Savior. For a Jesus that would allow you to not repent and or to get away with sin is a false Christ. A Jesus who requires you to not trust in His sacrifice and to go out and do other things so as to be saved is another false Christ. Jesus saves us both in Justification and in Sanctification. We merely respond to His grace by repenting of our sins and then continuing to allow His Spirit to do the good work within us. This way, Jesus gets all the glory, honor, and power in a person's life.

For Paul and James were not against each other.
Paul is telling us that salvation is a transformation of the heart by God (that is a free gift) that happens internally.
James is telling us what a true born again saving faith looks like externally.

Anyways, I hope what I said here helps you.
May God bless you and please be well.

With loving kindness to you all in Christ Jesus,

Sincerely,

~Jason.


...

 

[Jason0047]

Yeah, but how do we know which Laws to keep in the New Testament after we are saved (Which would confirm our salvation)? Well, the Bible speaks about how there are sins that lead unto death and sins that do not lead unto death (1 John 5:16-18). Sins that lead unto death are those sins that Paul talks about that will cause a person not to inherit the Kingdom of God, such as murder, hate, lust, theft, drunkenness, idolatry, etc. John also mentions these sins in Revelation 21:8.

Also, it needs to be pointed out that if you are truly born again (by repenting of your sins and in accepting Jesus as your Savior), you are going to be convicted by the Spirit to confess or repent of your sins and to forsake them with the Lord's help.

 

[chubbena]

If one lives and walks in the Spirit. That's great!
Just be reminded the one who taught that upheld the Law.

 

[Linda70]

If one lives and walks in the Spirit. That's great!
Just be reminded the one who taught that upheld the Law.

Why did Jesus keep the Sabbath? He kept the sabbath for the same reason He kept all the other Mosaic laws. He also observed the feasts. Jesus did these things because He was born a Jew, born under the law, that He might fulfill it and redeem His people from its penalty and bondage.

Galatians 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
Galatians 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

 

[Hoffco]

I am a Gentile, I was not born under the law, as Jesus was ,being a Jew; But no Jew today should be born under the law, because Jesus fulfilled the ceremonial and sacrificial laws, those laws are gone ,FOREVER. Love to all, Hoffco

 

[crossnote]

Legalists need to figure this out.

Romans 6:14-15 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Not under law but under grace yet we are not to sin. Easy?
Nope, we are gonna complicate it all.

 

[crossnote]

Just thinkin...
Maybe those who don't know what grace is somehow fall back under law.