Must a believer become as one under the law so that he may win the jew

[Zinzerio]

1 Corinthians 9:19-23Good News Translation (GNT)

19 I am a free man, nobody's slave; but I make myself everybody's slave in order to win as many people as possible. 20 While working with the Jews, I live like a Jew in order to win them; and even though I myself am not subject to the Law of Moses, I live as though I were when working with those who are, in order to win them.


Here we see Paul who by this time was walking in the spirit, walking with Jesus.
These words he speaks here must be and have to be from the spirit and Jesus,

so there for this is not just Paul saying he became as one under the law but also Jesus is saying this he became like one under the law so that he may win the Jew.

So if a person goes unto a Jew and say ,, HEY !! YOUR NOT UNDER THE LAW, that will throw fuel to the fire, because the law is holy and something holy is something pure, something pure is also considered to be religion, religion that is pure is holy to the lord.

This is why Jesus here has revealed to Paul you must become like the Jew to win the Jew although you are not under the law you shall become as one under the law to win the Jew.

the bible say it was Jesus who said he was not under the law. he has the right to say that, only those walking in the spirit also have the right to say this, but they do not have the right to say it to people who are under the law. Because Jesus say you must become as one under the law to help, what this means is you can not say to someone under the law that what you say is wrong, you must do as Jesus do and become like one under the law so that you can become his friend and over time have him walking the spirit. this is the law this is the law of liberty, this law is the score and totally the bobby Moore, say no more.

 

[2Thewaters]

Talking about circumcision again, the law of circumcision, not the law of the ten commandments.
We need to study the Bible for ourselves and not just repeat these same three misapplied Bible verses.

 

[Zinzerio]

thats a good question must one become circumcised to so as to win the Jew to hmmm never thought of that lol

 

[chubbena]

Timothy was circumcised even though he's only half a Jew.
Titus was not.
There seemed like no consistency.

On the other hand, it's difficult to understand what Paul was saying by reading just a couple of verses out of one of his many letters. I would read his letters based on the belief that he's not superseding what the Word has said, just like the Bereans did to his teachings.

Under the law, thus, means to me that he would preach the true meaning of circumcision, of various sacrifices, , of various washing rituals, of temple worship, of priesthood et etc, not unlike the writer of the letter to the Hebrews.

 

[Zinzerio]

well what all this is you dont go to a soccer game and say play by my rules or im not playing, what this mean is is go compete become friend, see you mean no harm then discuss the law.

 

[crossnote]

Romans 10:19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.

Romans 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

Our testimony and zeal towards the things of God...His Word, chaste lifestyle etc., is sufficient.

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

actually christians 'playing judaism' tends to offend jews and turn them off to christianity more than anything else...

 

[Zinzerio]

actually what this means is those under the law are those not walking in the spirit, so anyone could be under the law it does not necessarily have to be a Jew, and this is what it means you need to show love for those not walking in the spirit

 

[chubbena]

actually christians 'playing judaism' tends to offend jews and turn them off to christianity more than anything else...

The biggest offender 1st century Jewish Christians, especially the 12 apostles.

 

[RedTent]

Christians do not have to become Jews in order to win Jews by obeying all their customs or even all the things scripture tells us to do physically to lead us to the spiritual instructions we are given. They were given before the Holy Spirit was given to everyone, we have the Holy Spirit so these things are only important as they help explain the spiritual truth they led to and not to be used instead of that spirit.

Paul had to fight against men telling him he must teach these things ahead of the spiritual instructions, such as physical circumcision instead of spiritual circumcision.

In the same way, we are not to teach Jews they are not accepted because these things have become their custom. Anytime we get our minds caught up in the physical expression of a truth instead of the truth, either for or against, we are going into letter of the law instead of the law. And by the way the word law is usually a bad translation for instruction.

Jews tried to tell gentiles they weren't accepted without them, we aren't to tell Jews they aren't accepted because of them.

 

[Zinzerio]

Christians do not have to become Jews in order to win Jews by obeying all their customs or even all the things scripture tells us to do physically to lead us to the spiritual instructions we are given. They were given before the Holy Spirit was given to everyone, we have the Holy Spirit so these things are only important as they help explain the spiritual truth they led to and not to be used instead of that spirit.

Paul had to fight against men telling him he must teach these things ahead of the spiritual instructions, such as physical circumcision instead of spiritual circumcision.

In the same way, we are not to teach Jews they are not accepted because these things have become their custom. Anytime we get our minds caught up in the physical expression of a truth instead of the truth, either for or against, we are going into letter of the law instead of the law. And by the way the word law is usually a bad translation for instruction.

Jews tried to tell gentiles they weren't accepted without them, we aren't to tell Jews they aren't accepted because of them.

yar i agree to a certain degree, but i do slight disagree with the first part you say: "Christians do not have to become Jews in order to win Jews".

This is where the biggest problem is and this is how scripture is read. when you read it like this Christians do not have to become Jews in order to win Jews. Do you see jesus in this here whats it saying to you ?

 

[crossnote]

If you are talking about Jews today, most are either atheists or secular. So, go for it.

 

[Scuba]

thats a good question must one become circumcised to so as to win the Jew to hmmm never thought of that lol

How about this? Paul also said that to those who don't have the Law I will become as one who does not have the Law so that I might win them to Christ. Does that mean Paul was going to commit adultery, steal, worship false gods and so on so that he could win those who do those things to Christ? No way! I believe Paul was referring to the Talmud, which refers to the Jewish oral law contained in traditions. These traditions didn't do away with the Law, but rather, they added to it making the commandments of God a strict, legalistic burden for His people. The Talmud was one of the biggest things Jesus was up against. Jesus had to do away with all the Jewish traditions that replaced the commandments of God.

Matthew 15:2-3 “Why do Your disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat bread.” He answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition?

Matthew 15:5-8 But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God”—then he need not honor his father or mother.’ Thus you have made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition. Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying: ‘These people draw near to Me with their mouth, and honor Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me.

It was these same traditions Jesus did away with that made the Sabbath a burden. Traditions such as rules against walking so many feet on the Sabbath, forbidding to heal, pick grain to eat and so on on the Sabbath. Jesus didn't do away with the seventh day Sabbath, He did away with the Talmud rules and traditions.

What Paul was saying is that He would live by the Talmud to those who were under the Talmud but to those who were not he would live as they did. The purpose was to win both to Christ.

 

[Zinzerio]

If you are talking about Jews today, most are either atheists or secular. So, go for it.

go for what ?

 

[Zinzerio]

How about this? Paul also said that to those who don't have the Law I will become as one who does not have the Law so that I might win them to Christ. Does that mean Paul was going to commit adultery, steal, worship false gods and so on so that he could win those who do those things to Christ?.

oh come on you carnt be seariouse the jews would not have been doing them things back then they would be stoned to death.

I believe Paul was referring to the Talmud, which refers to the Jewish oral law contained in traditions. These traditions didn't do away with the Law, but rather, they added to it making the commandments of God a strict, legalistic burden for His people. The Talmud was one of the biggest things Jesus was up against. Jesus had to do away with all the Jewish traditions that replaced the commandments of God.

Matthew 15:2-3 “Why do Your disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat bread.” He answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition?

Matthew 15:5-8 But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God”—then he need not honor his father or mother.’ Thus you have made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition. Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying: ‘These people draw near to Me with their mouth, and honor Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me.

It was these same traditions Jesus did away with that made the Sabbath a burden. Traditions such as rules against walking so many feet on the Sabbath, forbidding to heal, pick grain to eat and so on on the Sabbath. Jesus didn't do away with the seventh day Sabbath, He did away with the Talmud rules and traditions.

What Paul was saying is that He would live by the Talmud to those who were under the Talmud but to those who were not he would live as they did. The purpose was to win both to Christ.

a lot of your own beliefs here all of switch are swaying from the main point of the topic which is anyone under the law is not under the spirit, which means they need a helping hand, which they got, but what are they getting now, lol, because as you can see there getting called hermits and secular and other stuff,, all of which is the exact opposite of loving the jew

 

[Scuba]

oh come on you carnt be seariouse the jews would not have been doing them things back then they would be stoned to death.
a lot of your own beliefs here all of switch are swaying from the main point of the topic which is anyone under the law is not under the spirit, which means they need a helping hand, which they got, but what are they getting now, lol, because as you can see there getting called hermits and secular and other stuff,, all of which is the exact opposite of loving the jew

Who would do the stoning? They were the ones setting the example through oral law and they were the ones doing the stoning for violating them.

 

[RedTent]

yar i agree to a certain degree, but i do slight disagree with the first part you say: "Christians do not have to become Jews in order to win Jews".

This is where the biggest problem is and this is how scripture is read. when you read it like this Christians do not have to become Jews in order to win Jews. Do you see jesus in this here whats it saying to you ?

Not sure what you are heading for, but let me put what I think in a more complete way. Christians do not have to adopt Jewish customs like their rituals in order to win Jews. They must treat them as neither for or against Christianity, except the Holy Spirit must be acknowledged.

 

[RedTent]

How about this? Paul also said that to those who don't have the Law I will become as one who does not have the Law so that I might win them to Christ. Does that mean Paul was going to commit adultery, steal, worship false gods and so on so that he could win those who do those things to Christ? No way! I believe Paul was referring to the Talmud, which refers to the Jewish oral law contained in traditions. These traditions didn't do away with the Law, but rather, they added to it making the commandments of God a strict, legalistic burden for His people. The Talmud was one of the biggest things Jesus was up against. Jesus had to do away with all the Jewish traditions that replaced the commandments of God..

At least you don't think, like lots of people do, that he meant all the instructions we are given for living. If you read any history of the times to see what bible is talking about, what those people were thinking and what Paul was addressing about that, you would find that, like it says in Acts, Jews wanted no one accepted that didn't live like them, starting with being physically (apart from spiritually) circumcised. They accepted the Lord, but having to take on what they considered those weird Jewish ways were too much, and they called them the Law of Moses. That is what Paul is referring to. If you lived during that time and read one of his letters, you would know that and the way we see it, as Paul against Jesus and the whole first five books of the bible would have labeled you an odd ball, off your rocker.

 

[Zinzerio]

Who would do the stoning? They were the ones setting the example through oral law and they were the ones doing the stoning for violating them.

the Jews where instructed to stone that was there law, what they believed, that was there belief at the time, this has no valid reason for this debate because the Jews was instructed to do so as commanded by God.

 

[crossnote]

If you are talking about Jews today, most are either atheists or secular. So, go for it.

go for what ?

Go for becoming as one of them (atheist or secularist) to win them to Christ...if you think that is wise.