The Gaza Strip

[just-me]

Are these prophecies taking place today as well as in the past? Anyone who knows ancient world history, or something in the Bible that says this is a reoccurring situation please contribute. These following prophecies are all after the time of Joshua, and King David.

Jeremiah 47:1-5
1 The word of the LORD that came to Jeremiah the prophet against the Philistines, before that Pharaoh smote Gaza.
2 Thus saith the LORD; Behold, waters rise up out of the north, and shall be an overflowing flood, and shall overflow the land, and all that is therein; the city, and them that dwell therein: then the men shall cry , and all the inhabitants of the land shall howl .
3 At the noise of the stamping of the hoofs of his strong horses, at the rushing of his chariots, and at the rumbling of his wheels, the fathers shall not look back to their children for feebleness of hands;
4 Because of the day that cometh to spoil all the Philistines, and to cut off from Tyrus and Zidon every helper that remaineth: for the LORD will spoil the Philistines, the remnant of the country of Caphtor.
5 Baldness is come upon Gaza; Ashkelon is cut off with the remnant of their valley: how long wilt thou cut thyself?

Amos 1:6-7
6 Thus saith the LORD; For three transgressions of Gaza, and for four, I will not turn away the punishment thereof; because they carried away captive the whole captivity, to deliver them up to Edom: 7 But I will send a fire on the wall of Gaza, which shall devour the palaces thereof:

Zephaniah 2:4 For Gaza shall be forsaken , and Ashkelon a desolation: they shall drive out Ashdod at the noon day, and Ekron shall be rooted up.

Zechariah 9:1-5
1 The burden of the word of the LORD in the land of Hadrach, and Damascus shall be the rest thereof: when the eyes of man, as of all the tribes of Israel, shall be toward the LORD.
2 And Hamath also shall border thereby; Tyrus, and Zidon, though it be very wise .
3 And Tyrus did build herself a strong hold, and heaped up silver as the dust, and fine gold as the mire of the streets.
4 Behold, the Lord will cast her out , and he will smite her power in the sea; and she shall be devoured with fire.
5 Ashkelon shall see it, and fear ; Gaza also shall see it, and be very sorrowful , and Ekron; for her expectation shall be ashamed ; and the king shall perish from Gaza, and Ashkelon shall not be inhabited.

 

[John_S]

NO - Those prophecies are NOT taking place today.

 

[just-me]

Posted on facebook.. One of our friends in Israel who is a believer in Jesus Christ. He writes.................

we are in a war and God says: "I lift my hand to heaven and declare: As surely as I live forever when I sharpen my flashing sword and my hand grasps it in judgment, I will take vengeance on my adversaries and repay those who hate me. I will make my arrows drunk with blood, while my sword devours flesh: the blood of the slain and the captives, the heads of the enemy leaders. Rejoice, O Gentiles, with his people, for he will avenge the blood of his servants; he will take vengeance on his enemies and make atonement on his land and his people." (Deuteronomy 32: 40-43)

 

[JimmieD]

Jeremiah and Zephaniah are generally covering events concerning the Babylonian destruction of Judah (ie the Southern Kingdom).

Amos is generally covering events concerning the Assyrian destruction of Israel (ie the Northern Kingdom).

Many of the prophecies (if not all) against the nations in these books is dealing with (1) judgment on nations that had allied with or become subserviant to Assyria or Babylon, (2) Assyria and Babylon themselves, (3) the other regional superpower, Egypt, and it's allies. Basically, these are the nations that were threatening Judah or Israel or trying to take advantage of Judah or Israel at that time.

 

[just-me]

Jeremiah and Zephaniah are generally covering events concerning the Babylonian destruction of Judah (ie the Southern Kingdom).

Amos is generally covering events concerning the Assyrian destruction of Israel (ie the Northern Kingdom).

Many of the prophecies (if not all) against the nations in these books is dealing with (1) judgment on nations that had allied with or become subserviant to Assyria or Babylon, (2) Assyria and Babylon themselves, (3) the other regional superpower, Egypt, and it's allies. Basically, these are the nations that were threatening Judah or Israel or trying to take advantage of Judah or Israel at that time.

Thanks. Are there any prophecies in the Bible that are for Israel today other than Ezekiel chapters 38 and 39?

 

[2Thewaters]

Little children
we are in the last days
there will be wars and rumors of wars becasue the enemy wants to cause mass confusion
ignore this, stick with yout bible and read it
and build your relationship

I dont read news anyway it is all manufactured each day what they want you to get excited about
all baloney.

 

[just-me]

Now I am wondering. If Israel was dispersed by the Syrians, and Babylon captured Judah, what threat was Israel to Gaza, and why would they suffer judgment by God?

Amos 1:6 Thus saith the LORD; For three transgressions of Gaza, and for four, I will not turn away the punishment thereof; because they carried away captive the whole captivity, to deliver them up to Edom:

Am I wrong by assuming there are 4 infractions? In other words, the Palestinians, are actually Philistines in the Bible. I have heard that they are one and the same.

 

[JimmieD]

Thanks. Are there any prophecies in the Bible that are for Israel today other than Ezekiel chapters 38 and 39?

I'm pretty skeptical that there are any. For one, Israel today doesn't seem to be the same as the Israel I see in the bible for some key reasons:

-Israel is not occupying the land listed in the OT (much of it is in the countries of Jordan, Syria, and Egypt or controlled by Palestinians).
-There is no king
-There is no high priest
-Different law
-No temple
-No priestly/sacrificial sysstem
-Little to no tribal distinctions
-No prophets
-Not even a national level acknowledgement of Yahweh as King

I guess I just don't see how naming yourself "Israel" automatically means it's the same as or somehow continugous with the Israel of the bible.

I've also personally been curious as to why everyone ignores the Samaritans that have been living near Shechem for several thousand years now. Why don't they get thrown into the mix as identification of Israel? They actually still do practice sacrifices, which is more than their neighbors to the south can say.

Gen48:21 Then Israel said to Joseph, “I am about to die, but God will be with you[SUP] [/SUP]and will bring you back to the land of your fathers. 48:22 As one who is above your[SUP] [/SUP]brothers, I give to you the mountain slope (ie, Shechem),[SUP] [/SUP]which I took from the Amorites with my sword and my bow.”
​

 

[just-me]

Thanks JimmieD

It does seem as though Israel in the Bible is ancient history. I just tend to think that God still holds that part of the world as valuable concerning a representation of His power and might as an example to the entire world. There are so many (concerning rhetoric) that say to watch Israel today as the signs of the end times.

Give me your take on this scripture.

Ezekiel 37:16-19
16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:
17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.
18 And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying , Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?
19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.

 

[JimmieD]

There are so many (concerning rhetoric) that say to watch Israel today as the signs of the end times.

I know. I just have my doubts that they are correct.

Give me your take on this scripture.

Ezekiel 37:16-19
16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:
17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.
18 And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying , Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?
19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.

It seems to me Ezekiel is talking about the restoration of Israel after the Assyrian and Babylonian exiles.

 

[just-me]

I know. I just have my doubts that they are correct.

It seems to me Ezekiel is talking about the restoration of Israel after the Assyrian and Babylonian exiles.

In your opinion, what, or who is Ephraim? The Medea Persian Empire restored Judah, but not the tribes dispersed by the Assyrians. As I understand they (the lost 10 tribes) have never been restored to Israel to this day.

 

[JimmieD]

In your opinion, what, or who is Ephraim?

Israel, as in the Northern Kingdom. In the OT, the Northern Kingdom of Israel is often identified synonymously by it's major tribes - Ephraim and/or Manasseh; the Southern Kingdom is identified synonymously by it's major tribe - Judah.

 

[Hashe]

Israel, as in the Northern Kingdom. In the OT, the Northern Kingdom of Israel is often identified synonymously by it's major tribes - Ephraim and/or Manasseh; the Southern Kingdom is identified synonymously by it's major tribe - Judah.

But after the Assyrian exile, these terms refer to Judah, or the sole Israel.

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

In other words, the Palestinians, are actually Philistines in the Bible. I have heard that they are one and the same.

they are not the same...

the name 'palestine' was given to the former land of israel by the romans as an insult after they defeated bar kokhba's rebels...the name is derived from the philistines...historically one of israel's worst enemies...

for centuries since then the region has been commonly called 'palestine' regardless of who was living there at any given time...

the modern 'palestinian people' are basically a cobbled together 'ethnicity' of various mostly unrelated arab clans who migrated into that region for various reasons...calling them 'palestinians' is primarily a geographic designation...they are not related to any of the ethnic groups that inhabited the area in biblical times...

 

[JimmieD]

The Medea Persian Empire restored Judah, but not the tribes dispersed by the Assyrians. As I understand they (the lost 10 tribes) have never been restored to Israel to this day.

It's interesting - yes, the descendents of the Judah exiles in Babylon did return to Jerusalem. Yet not much seems to be said of the Israelite Northern tribes.

The Assyrians and Babylonians differed a little in what they did when they conquered people. Babylonians often opted for mass deportations, as happened with Judah, while Assyria often opted to deport some and/or resettle it's own people in conquered areas. So it opted more for some sort of colonialist type of approach where it would deport the offending parties and colonialize the indigenuous population. There is evidence that this sort of thing is exactly what happened to the Northern Kingdom:

2 Kings17:24 The king of Assyria brought foreigners[SUP] [/SUP]from Babylon, Cuthah, Avva, Hamath, and Sepharvaim and settled them in the cities of Samaria[SUP] [/SUP]in place of the Israelites. They took possession of Samaria and lived in its cities. 17:25 When they first moved in,[SUP] [/SUP]they did not worship[SUP] [/SUP]the Lord. So the Lord sent lions among them and the lions were killing them. 17:26 The king of Assyria was told,[SUP] [/SUP]“The nations whom you deported and settled in the cities of Samaria do not know the requirements of the God of the land, so he has sent lions among them. They are killing the people[SUP] [/SUP]because they do not know the requirements of the God of the land.” 17:27 So the king of Assyria ordered, “Take back one of the priests whom you[SUP] [/SUP]deported from there. He must settle there and teach them the requirements of the God of the land.” 17:28 So one of the priests whom they had deported from Samaria went back and settled in Bethel.[SUP] [/SUP]He taught them how to worship[SUP] [/SUP]the Lord.​

It appears that Assyria may have only deported part of the leadership of Israel (from here on, I refer to Israel as the Northern Kingdom and Judah as the Southern Kingdom). This would make sense as deporting entire populations to include peasants and such is costly and would probably achieve very little while deporting the leadership does make sense. It appears that the Israelites not deported didn't take too kindly to the Assyrian colonization. So Assyria sends at least one priest back - very likely the high priest or someone close to the high priest.

It seems then that while some of the leadership of Israel was probably deported and resettled elsewhere, not all of them were nor was all of the population deported. In this case, Israel never really went anywhere. In fact, when the Judahites return from Babylon, and Nehemiah begins to rebuild Jerusalem, he meets some opposition from Samaria:

Neh4:1 (3:33) Now when Sanballat heard that we were rebuilding the wall he became angry and was quite upset. He derided the Jews, 4:2 and in the presence of his colleagues and the army of Samaria[SUP] [/SUP]he said, “What are these feeble Jews doing? Will they be left to themselves?[SUP] [/SUP]Will they again offer sacrifice? Will they finish this in a day? Can they bring these burnt stones to life again from piles of dust?”
​

Ezra also records people still living in the land, worshiping Yahweh:

Ezra4:1 When the enemies of Judah and Benjamin learned that the former exiles[SUP] [/SUP]were building a temple for the Lord God of Israel, 4:2 they came to Zerubbabel and the leaders[SUP] [/SUP]and said to them, “Let us help you build,[SUP] [/SUP]for like you we seek your God and we have been sacrificing to him[SUP] [/SUP]from the time[SUP] [/SUP]of King Esarhaddon[SUP] [/SUP]of Assyria, who brought us here.”[SUP] [/SUP]​

I think it's pretty clear that the opposition from Samaria was because they had their own temple and priesthood there. It never went anywhere. In the same manner, when Judah was deported, it was probably mainly the leadership (the royalty and priestly classes) that were deported. When the Judahite leadership returns to Jerusalem after being gone for a very long time, there are still people there who considered themselves Israelites (see Neh 5 for another example). These people also claimed to be worshiping and offering sacrifices to Yahweh. At first they try to help Ezra and Nehemiah, but are rebuffed and turn to opposing their efforts.

Point being, the northern tribes probably never went anywhere. Though some were undoubtedly deported, especially the leadership, many were not. They were colonized by the Assyrians, but continued to worship Yahweh - which is why Assyria had to send some priests back. They were already there in Israel, with a temple in Samaria, when the Judahites returned to Jerusalem to rebuild. And funny enough, the Samaritans are still on Mt Gerizim, there near Shechem, and seem to have never gone anywhere.

 

[just-me]

jimmieD Thanks. Good input. While I was reading your post, I was also thinking that all Israel (at the time you mentioned during Ezra, and Nehemiah's time) had to have their wives and children expelled from their presences that were not born Israelites. Also, those that couldn't prove their heritage were not allowed to work on the Jerusalem wall or the temple restoration. Seems as though God approved of a clear cut separation of heritage.

 

[john832]

In your opinion, what, or who is Ephraim? The Medea Persian Empire restored Judah, but not the tribes dispersed by the Assyrians. As I understand they (the lost 10 tribes) have never been restored to Israel to this day.

Ephraim is Great Britain, Manasseh is the United States and these two brothers carry the name Israel...

Gen 48:16 The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.

 

[john832]

But after the Assyrian exile, these terms refer to Judah, or the sole Israel.

Sure and that is why we see this in prophecy...

Isa 11:12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
Jer 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Eze 37:19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.

Now what happens in the day Israel and Judah are made one?

Eze 37:22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:
Eze 37:23 Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.
Eze 37:24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
Eze 37:25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.

Unless you know something the whole world does not know, David is not ruling over a united Israel and Judah at this moment...

Act 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

 

[john832]

In your opinion, what, or who is Ephraim? The Medea Persian Empire restored Judah, but not the tribes dispersed by the Assyrians. As I understand they (the lost 10 tribes) have never been restored to Israel to this day.

No they have not, that is what the latter half of Ezek 37 is all about.

 

[dcontroversal]

Are these prophecies taking place today as well as in the past? Anyone who knows ancient world history, or something in the Bible that says this is a reoccurring situation please contribute. These following prophecies are all after the time of Joshua, and King David.

Jeremiah 47:1-5
1 The word of the LORD that came to Jeremiah the prophet against the Philistines, before that Pharaoh smote Gaza.
2 Thus saith the LORD; Behold, waters rise up out of the north, and shall be an overflowing flood, and shall overflow the land, and all that is therein; the city, and them that dwell therein: then the men shall cry , and all the inhabitants of the land shall howl .
3 At the noise of the stamping of the hoofs of his strong horses, at the rushing of his chariots, and at the rumbling of his wheels, the fathers shall not look back to their children for feebleness of hands;
4 Because of the day that cometh to spoil all the Philistines, and to cut off from Tyrus and Zidon every helper that remaineth: for the LORD will spoil the Philistines, the remnant of the country of Caphtor.
5 Baldness is come upon Gaza; Ashkelon is cut off with the remnant of their valley: how long wilt thou cut thyself?

Amos 1:6-7
6 Thus saith the LORD; For three transgressions of Gaza, and for four, I will not turn away the punishment thereof; because they carried away captive the whole captivity, to deliver them up to Edom: 7 But I will send a fire on the wall of Gaza, which shall devour the palaces thereof:

Zephaniah 2:4 For Gaza shall be forsaken , and Ashkelon a desolation: they shall drive out Ashdod at the noon day, and Ekron shall be rooted up.

Zechariah 9:1-5
1 The burden of the word of the LORD in the land of Hadrach, and Damascus shall be the rest thereof: when the eyes of man, as of all the tribes of Israel, shall be toward the LORD.
2 And Hamath also shall border thereby; Tyrus, and Zidon, though it be very wise .
3 And Tyrus did build herself a strong hold, and heaped up silver as the dust, and fine gold as the mire of the streets.
4 Behold, the Lord will cast her out , and he will smite her power in the sea; and she shall be devoured with fire.
5 Ashkelon shall see it, and fear ; Gaza also shall see it, and be very sorrowful , and Ekron; for her expectation shall be ashamed ; and the king shall perish from Gaza, and Ashkelon shall not be inhabited.

You know what I think..I like the one about the vapor that comes out of the North and kills all of the (Philistines) that are in the 4 current cities held by the Palestinians......

Interesting to note that it does not touch the CURRENT CITY held by the Jews in GAZA....

Palestine<---Latin for Philistine.......