Hey you guys, please check out this video. May the Holy Spirit reveal to you a measure of weight deserved for this truth... in Jesus' name, amen. The Few - Piper/Washer/Ravenhill/Conway/Leiter - YouTube
FEW make it to Heaven! MOST go to Hell! :(
- Thread starter Torrence
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That is pretty dangerous stuff. Some truth mixed with deception can be very deceptive indeed.
Paul Washer is a 5 Point Calvinist whose message basically consists of...
1. Recongise and admit how depraved your are.
2. Trust in Jesus
3. Examine yourself to see if there is any change in your life (basically you should be sinning less over time).
Paul Washer denies heart purity in his doctrine and believes reconciliation to God is via a legal transaction which took place at the cross where God views Jesus in the place of a depraved Christian. John Piper teaches the same thing as does Conway. It is a very subtle preaching of "you can sin and not surely die so long as you are one of the elect, imputed with Jesus obedient track record, evidenced by sinning less and less over time." The sin never stops and no true salvation experience can occur under this doctrine.
Ravenhill theology on the other hand is more on the Arminian side instead of Calvinism. The problem though with his theology is that conversion and regeneration is still principled off an emotional experience of "accepting Jesus" and "sinning less over time." The sinning less over time is basically the process that leads to "Entire Sanctifcation" under Arminian theology. Just like in Calvinism the sin NEVER actually stops.
Both Calvinism and Arminianism teach a sin/repent/sin/repent/sin/repent life for a Christian.
The real Gospel involves being set free from the literal power of sin whereby one is held in continual bondage to its service. Repentance is where the bondage is broken through the change of the mind where one's rebellion to GOd is forsaken once and for all and the Spirit of God, the Spirit of the life of Jesus Christ, is received internally. It is through the voluntary submission of this Spirit that one is able to walk in all righteousness and grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ. One may do wrong ignorantly and be corrected but willful wrongdoing has ceased.
The false teachers above all make an allowance for willful wrongdoing to continue whether it be often or occasionally. It doesn't really matter whether one rebels against God weekly, daily or monthly, the rebellion in itself reflects a state of the mind and heart towards God. One cannot serve sin and serve God, it is one or the other.
The above teachers in the video are extremely dangerous because they present a message which is narrower than many teachers today. Thus people who see problems with a watered down Gospel message very easily buy into these other celebrity preachers whose message does not seem as watered down.
Satan is a master theologian so be very aware of his devices. He is a master deceiver and he deceives the entire world. We are to not be of this world and therefore not be deceived.
Repent and believe the Gospel and therefore be a doer of the word from the heart. Love God and love your neighbour. It is very simple.
Paul Washer is a 5 Point Calvinist whose message basically consists of...
1. Recongise and admit how depraved your are.
2. Trust in Jesus
3. Examine yourself to see if there is any change in your life (basically you should be sinning less over time).
Paul Washer denies heart purity in his doctrine and believes reconciliation to God is via a legal transaction which took place at the cross where God views Jesus in the place of a depraved Christian. John Piper teaches the same thing as does Conway. It is a very subtle preaching of "you can sin and not surely die so long as you are one of the elect, imputed with Jesus obedient track record, evidenced by sinning less and less over time." The sin never stops and no true salvation experience can occur under this doctrine.
Ravenhill theology on the other hand is more on the Arminian side instead of Calvinism. The problem though with his theology is that conversion and regeneration is still principled off an emotional experience of "accepting Jesus" and "sinning less over time." The sinning less over time is basically the process that leads to "Entire Sanctifcation" under Arminian theology. Just like in Calvinism the sin NEVER actually stops.
Both Calvinism and Arminianism teach a sin/repent/sin/repent/sin/repent life for a Christian.
The real Gospel involves being set free from the literal power of sin whereby one is held in continual bondage to its service. Repentance is where the bondage is broken through the change of the mind where one's rebellion to GOd is forsaken once and for all and the Spirit of God, the Spirit of the life of Jesus Christ, is received internally. It is through the voluntary submission of this Spirit that one is able to walk in all righteousness and grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ. One may do wrong ignorantly and be corrected but willful wrongdoing has ceased.
The false teachers above all make an allowance for willful wrongdoing to continue whether it be often or occasionally. It doesn't really matter whether one rebels against God weekly, daily or monthly, the rebellion in itself reflects a state of the mind and heart towards God. One cannot serve sin and serve God, it is one or the other.
The above teachers in the video are extremely dangerous because they present a message which is narrower than many teachers today. Thus people who see problems with a watered down Gospel message very easily buy into these other celebrity preachers whose message does not seem as watered down.
Satan is a master theologian so be very aware of his devices. He is a master deceiver and he deceives the entire world. We are to not be of this world and therefore not be deceived.
Repent and believe the Gospel and therefore be a doer of the word from the heart. Love God and love your neighbour. It is very simple.
K
A lot of professing Christians now days go by a watered down gospel, that teaches mere belief.
Then others are taught a gospel that says they can continue to live life no matter how with out any consequences.
Anybody who reads the bible correctly knows you can not live in willful sin, and some who believe in Jesus ( but just mere belief ) will not see the kingdom of God.
Know one would call Jesus Lord if they did not believe in Him as that, but the difference is true belief or just mere existence belief. I find it sad, and know that it grieves the Holy Spirit seeing so many cancel out part of what our Lord said.
Matthew 7:21-23
[SUP]21 [/SUP]“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. [SUP]22 [/SUP]Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ [SUP]23 [/SUP]And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
This and Matthew 25 shows a scene of those who are standing before the judgment seat of Christ. Both these groups believe in Jesus, but only one gets eternal life, the other group goes to ever lasting punishment.
Plus we must remember this:
2 Corinthians 5:10
“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad”
Then others are taught a gospel that says they can continue to live life no matter how with out any consequences.
Anybody who reads the bible correctly knows you can not live in willful sin, and some who believe in Jesus ( but just mere belief ) will not see the kingdom of God.
Know one would call Jesus Lord if they did not believe in Him as that, but the difference is true belief or just mere existence belief. I find it sad, and know that it grieves the Holy Spirit seeing so many cancel out part of what our Lord said.
Matthew 7:21-23
[SUP]21 [/SUP]“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. [SUP]22 [/SUP]Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ [SUP]23 [/SUP]And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
This and Matthew 25 shows a scene of those who are standing before the judgment seat of Christ. Both these groups believe in Jesus, but only one gets eternal life, the other group goes to ever lasting punishment.
Plus we must remember this:
2 Corinthians 5:10
“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad”
Many use these kind of words but imply that "temporary sin," while not being ok, is part and parcel of the Christian life. Thus "living in sin" is defined as sinning with abandon, whilst "messing up" is sinning occasionally.
The truth is that both are out of the question because they both reveal a corrupted heart. There is no such thing as a genuine Christian "slipping" into sin and then apologising and moving on. The sin I am speaking of is doing wrong knowingly, not the sin of erring in judgement and making a wrong decision based on that error.
A Christian is to have a pure heart, a heart purified by abiding in the Spirit of the life of Jesus Christ, hence a heart that has been purified by faith. This is what sets apart the saved from the unsaved. The saved have been redeemed or set free from all iniquity and made pure having gone through the process of repentance and faith whereby we approach God through the blood of Jesus Christ. We enter into a covenant with God having abandoned our former lives of rebellion. As God's children we now grow in His grace and knowledge, putting into practice our increased knowledge.
Most modern theology denies the above and has perverted the truth with a salvation experience that is totally abstract. A salvation which denies a true redemption over the service of sin. Listen to every one of these celebrity preachers and they all accept the idea of ongoing sin of some kind. The reason they do this is they believe in the doctrine of "birth depravity" which serves to underpin everything else they believe.
Birth depravity = Birth inability to obey God. If a human being does not have the ability to obey God then it is God who has to make them able and in the meantime the disobedience will continue. Thus a theology is invented which supports this premise of inability. Hence salvation is redefined into an abstraction which is disconnected from actual conduct which flows from the manifest condition of an individuals heart.
It is a very subtle, very layered, yet very dangerous deception.
The truth is that both are out of the question because they both reveal a corrupted heart. There is no such thing as a genuine Christian "slipping" into sin and then apologising and moving on. The sin I am speaking of is doing wrong knowingly, not the sin of erring in judgement and making a wrong decision based on that error.
A Christian is to have a pure heart, a heart purified by abiding in the Spirit of the life of Jesus Christ, hence a heart that has been purified by faith. This is what sets apart the saved from the unsaved. The saved have been redeemed or set free from all iniquity and made pure having gone through the process of repentance and faith whereby we approach God through the blood of Jesus Christ. We enter into a covenant with God having abandoned our former lives of rebellion. As God's children we now grow in His grace and knowledge, putting into practice our increased knowledge.
Most modern theology denies the above and has perverted the truth with a salvation experience that is totally abstract. A salvation which denies a true redemption over the service of sin. Listen to every one of these celebrity preachers and they all accept the idea of ongoing sin of some kind. The reason they do this is they believe in the doctrine of "birth depravity" which serves to underpin everything else they believe.
Birth depravity = Birth inability to obey God. If a human being does not have the ability to obey God then it is God who has to make them able and in the meantime the disobedience will continue. Thus a theology is invented which supports this premise of inability. Hence salvation is redefined into an abstraction which is disconnected from actual conduct which flows from the manifest condition of an individuals heart.
It is a very subtle, very layered, yet very dangerous deception.
T
This is why I say the "Once saved always saved" teaching may be true, but the question is ... are you really saved?
Many believe they are saved because they once prayed to receive Jesus, but they do not realize that the PROOF of their genuineness of that prayer I perseverance in FAITH and HOLINESS....
Many believe they are saved because they once prayed to receive Jesus, but they do not realize that the PROOF of their genuineness of that prayer I perseverance in FAITH and HOLINESS....
K
Yes Christians do still sin, and if it is in the case of error in judgment or stumble then you can stay in that saved state by repenting and asking forgiveness of that sin, and Jesus our Lord being just will forgive you of that sin.
All sin must be repented of, no matter how it is committed. Jesus said repent or perish.
Those who live in willful sin are those who believe they do not need to repent or ask forgiveness of that sin. They justify, and make the sin acceptable. But the scriptures say all sin is against God.
If you live in it as if you are doing nothing wrong, that is willful sin.
All sin must be repented of, no matter how it is committed. Jesus said repent or perish.
Those who live in willful sin are those who believe they do not need to repent or ask forgiveness of that sin. They justify, and make the sin acceptable. But the scriptures say all sin is against God.
If you live in it as if you are doing nothing wrong, that is willful sin.
There are many that I can quote now, but remember Paul said that we shall not all sleep. There will be a generation that will not experience death, and if I am not part of it, I will at least help lay upon the foundation. He who believes will not taste death, which really ended at His resurrection, as it is now JESUS that has the keys of death. If we are still dying, and HE now controls it, then who is being rebuked? US!