T.U.L.I.P.

p_rehbein · Jul 22, 2014

PREDESTINATION:Article concerning Calvin’s Theology/Teaching

FOUND HERE:

calvinistcorner.com/tulip.htm CachedThe Five Points of Calvinism. There are two mains camps of theology within Christianity in America today: Arminianism and Calvinism. Calvinism is a system of biblical

Basically, Calvinism is known by an acronym: T.U.L.I.P.

Total Depravity (also known as Total Inability and Original Sin)
Unconditional Election
Limited Atonement (also known as Particular Atonement)
Irresistible Grace
Perseverance of the Saints (also known as Once Saved Always Saved)
These five categories do not comprise Calvinism in totality. They simply represent some of its main points.

Total Depravity:

Sin has affected all parts of man. The heart, emotions, will, mind, and body are all affected by sin. We are completely sinful. We are not as sinful as we could be, but we are completely affected by sin.The doctrine of Total Depravity is derived from scriptures that reveal human character: Man’s heart is evil (Mark 7:21-23) and sick Jer. 17:9). Man is a slave of sin (Rom. 6:20). He does not seek for God (Rom. 3:10-12). He cannot understand spiritual things (1 Cor. 2:14). He is at enmity with God (Eph. 2:15). And, is by nature a child of wrath (Eph. 2:3). The Calvinist asks the question, "In light of the scriptures that declare man’s true nature as being utterly lost and incapable, how is it possible for anyone to choose or desire God?" The answer is, "He cannot. Therefore God must predestine."
Calvinism also maintains that because of our fallen nature we are born again not by our own will but God’s will (John 1:12-13); God grants that we believe (Phil. 1:29); faith is the work of God (John 6:28-29); God appoints people to believe (Acts 13:48); and God predestines (Eph. 1:1-11; Rom. 8:29; 9:9-23).

Unconditional Election:
God does not base His election on anything He sees in the individual. He chooses the elect according to the kind intention of His will (Eph. 1:4-8; Rom. 9:11) without any consideration of merit within the individual. Nor does God look into the future to see who would pick Him. Also, as some are elected into salvation, others are not (Rom. 9:15, 21).
Limited Atonement:
Jesus died only for the elect. Though Jesus’ sacrifice was sufficient for all, it was not efficacious for all. Jesus only bore the sins of the elect. Support for this position is drawn from such scriptures as Matt. 26:28 where Jesus died for ‘many'; John 10:11, 15 which say that Jesus died for the sheep (not the goats, per Matt. 25:32-33); John 17:9 where Jesus in prayer interceded for the ones given Him, not those of the entire world; Acts 20:28 and Eph. 5:25-27 which state that the Church was purchased by Christ, not all people; and Isaiah 53:12 which is a prophecy of Jesus’ crucifixion where he would bore the sins of many (not all).

Irresistible Grace:
When God calls his elect into salvation, they cannot resist. God offers to all people the gospel message. This is called the external call. But to the elect, God extends an internal call and it cannot be resisted. This call is by the Holy Spirit who works in the hearts and minds of the elect to bring them to repentance and regeneration whereby they willingly and freely come to God. Some of the verses used in support of this teaching are Romans 9:16 where it says that "it is not of him who wills nor of him who runs, but of God who has mercy"; Philippians 2:12-13 where God is said to be the one working salvation in the individual; John 6:28-29 where faith is declared to be the work of God; Acts 13:48 where God appoints people to believe; and John 1:12-13 where being born again is not by man’s will, but by God’s.
“All that the Father gives Me shall come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out," (John 6:37).
Perseverance of the Saints:
You cannot lose your salvation. Because the Father has elected, the Son has redeemed, and the Holy Spirit has applied salvation, those thus saved are eternally secure. They are eternally secure in Christ. Some of the verses for this position are John 10:27-28 where Jesus said His sheep will never perish; John 6:47 where salvation is described as everlasting life; Romans 8:1 where it is said we have passed out of judgment; 1 Corinthians 10:13 where God promises to never let us be tempted beyond what we can handle; and Phil. 1:6 where God is the one being faithful to perfect us until the day of Jesus’ return.

p_rehbein · Jul 22, 2014

......and now for the "other view".............

Article Excerpt:

Debunking Calvinism!

This article was written by Fundamental Baptist World Mission but I uphold this article as my own position and I would have written something along the same lines myself, so consider this the position of me.

The theory which is today commonly known by the name Calvinism was first introduced by Augustine in the fourth century. He taught that Christ did not die for all men, but for a chosen few whom God had chosen and predestinated to become His children. He taught that all others were created to go to Hell. He taught that all those who were chosen to go to Heaven were as good as in Heaven and all those whom God chose to go to Hell were as good as in Hell. Augustine was later given sainthood by the Roman Catholic Church.

Over 1000 years later, John Calvin, an ex-Catholic, revived this teaching which had been forgotten since the death of Augustine. It is from Calvin that the teaching received its name, Calvinism.

Augustine, the father of the teaching, also taught that infant baptism was necessary in order to go to Heaven. He taught that a person could have genuine regeneration, genuine piety, and even genuine faith, but without membership in the Catholic Church, these would avail him nothing and he would go to Hell. He is also responsible for the teaching of sinless perfection. Many of the errors in the Catholic Church today can be traced to the writings of Augustine.

As for John Calvin, he was not a Baptist. He was a Reformer. He was not Christian in his attitude and behavior. He was a tyrant who cast those who disagreed with him into prison. In 1553, Micheal Servetus, a Spaniard, a scholar, a physician, a scientist of originality, and a man who was deeply religious and devoted to Christ, vigorously opposed Calvin on the doctrines of predestination and infant baptism [Bible Believers Resource Page note: while Servetus is to be commended for opposing predestination and infant baptism, some resources note that he also taught against the essential Christian doctrine of the Trinity which is heresy].

FOUND HERE:

cornshuckingpreacher.blogspot.com/2011/06/debunking... CachedJun 13, 2011 · Calvin's teaching was totally different ... of the doctrine taught by John Calvin which is commonly called TULIP ... of theology is an attack on ...

SolidGround · Jul 22, 2014

p_rehbein said:

......and now for the "other view".............

Article Excerpt:

Debunking Calvinism!

This article was written by Fundamental Baptist World Mission but I uphold this article as my own position and I would have written something along the same lines myself, so consider this the position of me.

The theory which is today commonly known by the name Calvinism was first introduced by Augustine in the fourth century. He taught that Christ did not die for all men, but for a chosen few whom God had chosen and predestinated to become His children. He taught that all others were created to go to Hell. He taught that all those who were chosen to go to Heaven were as good as in Heaven and all those whom God chose to go to Hell were as good as in Hell. Augustine was later given sainthood by the Roman Catholic Church.

Over 1000 years later, John Calvin, an ex-Catholic, revived this teaching which had been forgotten since the death of Augustine. It is from Calvin that the teaching received its name, Calvinism.

Augustine, the father of the teaching, also taught that infant baptism was necessary in order to go to Heaven. He taught that a person could have genuine regeneration, genuine piety, and even genuine faith, but without membership in the Catholic Church, these would avail him nothing and he would go to Hell. He is also responsible for the teaching of sinless perfection. Many of the errors in the Catholic Church today can be traced to the writings of Augustine.

As for John Calvin, he was not a Baptist. He was a Reformer. He was not Christian in his attitude and behavior. He was a tyrant who cast those who disagreed with him into prison. In 1553, Micheal Servetus, a Spaniard, a scholar, a physician, a scientist of originality, and a man who was deeply religious and devoted to Christ, vigorously opposed Calvin on the doctrines of predestination and infant baptism [Bible Believers Resource Page note: while Servetus is to be commended for opposing predestination and infant baptism, some resources note that he also taught against the essential Christian doctrine of the Trinity which is heresy].

FOUND HERE:

cornshuckingpreacher.blogspot.com/2011/06/debunking... CachedJun 13, 2011 · Calvin's teaching was totally different ... of the doctrine taught by John Calvin which is commonly called TULIP ... of theology is an attack on ...

Double predestination is not a mainline Calvinist position.

This is not an accurate article. This is propaganda.

just-me · Jul 22, 2014

I like tulips, but they are not my favorite flower. The lily of the valley is more fragrant to me.

Without a choice, (a response) love is not confirmed within the heart of man. That goes for any relationship.

p_rehbein · Jul 22, 2014

pre·des·ti·na·tion(pr-dst-nshn)
n.
1. The act of predestining or the condition of being predestined.
2. Theology
a. The doctrine that God has foreordained all things, especially that God has elected certain souls to eternal salvation.
b. The divine decree foreordaining all souls to either salvation or damnation.
c. The act of God foreordaining all things gone before and to come.
3. Destiny; fate.

predestination[priːˌdɛstɪˈneɪʃən]
n
1. (Christian Religious Writings / Theology) Theol
a. the act of God foreordaining every event from eternity
b. the doctrine or belief, esp associated with Calvin, that the final salvation of some of mankind is foreordained from eternity by God
2. the act of predestining or the state of being predestined

predestination
1. the action of God in foreordaining from eternity whatever comes to pass.
2. the doctrine that God chooses those who are to come to salvation.

ThesaurusLegend:SynonymsRelated WordsAntonyms
[TABLE="class: MsoNormalTable"]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Noun[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]1.[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]predestination - previous determination as if by destiny or fate
destiny, fate - an event (or a course of events) that will inevitably happen in the future[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]2.[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]predestination - (theology) being determined in advance; especially the doctrine (usually associated with Calvin) that God has foreordained every event throughout eternity (including the final salvation of mankind)
foreordination, predetermination, preordination
election - the predestination of some individuals as objects of divine mercy (especially as conceived by Calvinists)
theology, divinity - the rational and systematic study of religion and its influences and of the nature of religious truth
theological doctrine - the doctrine of a religious group[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Based on WordNet 3.0, Farlex clipart collection. © 2003-2011 Princeton University, Farlex Inc.

[HR][/HR]

predestination
nounfate, destiny, predetermination, election (Theology), doom, necessity, foreordination, foreordainmentHer belief in predestination absolved her from personal responsibility.
Collins Thesaurus of the English Language – Complete and Unabridged 2nd Edition. 2002 © HarperCollins Publishers 1995, 2002

SLAVERY:
A slave is a person owned by someone and slavery is the state of being under the control of someone where a person is forced to work for another. A slave is considered as a property of another as the one controlling them purchases them or owns them from their birth. In slavery the slave dos not have a right to leave the owner or not work for them. Slavery is a form of forced labor. They do not receive any remuneration for the work they do.

The slave has no freedom of action except within limits set by the master

Slavery is a system under which people are treated as property to be bought and sold, and are forced to work.[SUP][1][/SUP] Slaves can be held against their will from the time of their capture, purchase or birth, and deprived of the right to leave, to refuse to work, or to demand compensation. Historically, slavery was institutionally recognized by many societies; in more recent times slavery has been outlawed in most societies but continues through the practices of debt bondage, indentured servitude, serfdom, domestic servants kept in captivity, certain adoptions in which children are forced to work as slaves, child soldiers, and forced marriage.[SUP][2[/SUP]

Biblical support of predestination
Some Biblical verses often used as sources for Christian beliefs in predestination are below. Note that most of these verses do not distinguish between the conditional election (Arminian) and unconditional election (Calvinist), but are simply evidence of some type of election.
"For many are called, but few [are] chosen." (Matthew 22:14, KJV)
"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations." (Jeremiah 1:5 NIV)
"As soon as He was alone, His followers, along with the twelve, began asking Him about the parables. And He was saying to them, "To you has been given the mystery of the kingdom of God, but those who are outside get everything in parables, so that while seeing, they may see and not perceive, and while hearing, they may hear and not understand, otherwise they might return and be forgiven." (Mark 4:10-12, NASB)
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,..." (Eph. 1:3-5, NASB)
"And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified." (Rom. 8:28-30, NASB)
"... but we speak God's wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God predestined before the ages to our glory; ..." (1Co. 2:7, NASB)
"For truly in this city there were gathered together against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose predestined to occur." (Act. 4:27-28, NASB)
Your eyes have seen my unformed substance;And in Your book were all written The days that were ordained for me, When as yet there was not one of them. (Psa. 139:16, NASB)
"I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: "I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth."Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden." (Romans 9:15-18, NIV)
"The LORD said to Moses, "When you return to Egypt, see that you perform before Pharaoh all the wonders I have given you the power to do. But I will harden his heart so that he will not let the people go." (Exodus 4:21, NIV)
"What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory— even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?" (Rom. 9:22-24, NIV)
"For by grace you have been saved through faith and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them (Ephesians 2:8-10, NKJ)
"And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed." (Acts 13:48, ESV)

p_rehbein · Jul 22, 2014

Biblical support of free will
Examples of Biblical passages used to argue for free will:
Deuteronomy 30:19 "I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants,"
Joshua 24:15 "But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the LORD."
Ezekiel 18:32 "For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the LORD. Repent and live!"
I John 4:8 "He who does not love does not know God, for God is love." NKJ
Mark 16:16 "He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned."
Romans 10:9 "that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved."
Matthew 9:29 "Then He touched their eyes, saying, "According to your faith let it be to you."
1 Thessalonians 4:14 "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus."
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
2 Corinthians 5:15 "He died for all, so that those who might live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised." NAB
Jeremiah 18:7-10 "The instant I speak concerning a nation, to pluck up, to pull down, and to destroy it, if that nation against whom I have spoken turns from its evil, I will relent of the disaster that I thought to bring upon it. And the instant I speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it, and if it does evil in My sight so that it does not obey My voice, then I will relent concerning the good with which I said I would benefit it." NKJ
I Timothy 2: 3-4 "For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth." NKJ
II Peter 3:9 "The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance." NKJ
Note, however, that II Peter 3:1 and 3:8 address the "beloved," which are assumed to be the elect, or Christians. Therefore, the context may determine that II Peter 3:9 means "...but that all 'the elect' should come to repentance." This could mean that God will not lose even one of those he has chosen for salvation. This concept may be supported in John 10:28: "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any pluck them out of my hand."
Furthermore, Martin Luther wrote in his book "Bondage of the Will" that the "imperative does not imply the indicative." In other words, just because God commands us to believe does not indicate that we are capable of it.

p_rehbein · Jul 23, 2014

Bump............let us remember.............necessary to know the truth of what Calvin taught.........not hide it away in the netherworld of threads past............

notuptome · Jul 23, 2014

p_rehbein said:

Calvin is so misrepresented that it is virtually impossible to know what he actually taught. You can find a grain of biblical truth in all the points but it requires that you disregard what most current Calvinists teach.

Man is unable to save himself is that total depravity?
Salvation is by grace and not works is that unconditional election or grace?
The blood of Christ is only efficacious to those who receive it is that limited atonement?
Sin cannot overcome the grace of God is that irresistible?
Is eternal security the perservance of the saints?

Just what did Calvin mean when he penned these things? He was writing in rebuttal to the Arminian position of salvation by works right?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

p_rehbein · Jul 23, 2014

There are numerous examples of Calvin's teachings still available to any who want to read what he taught. There are also numerous historical records to reveal how he put his teachings into practice............just saying........

Everyone is misrepresented to one degree or another from time to time.........but that isn't an excuse to ignore the historical evidence that is available...............

The T.U.L.I.P. ideology I posted is from Calvin's own teaching.............do not believe I am one who misrepresents him. Disagree with him? Absolutely!

As far as "grains of truth" go, sure, the deceiver himself will inject "grains of truth" into his deceitful messages to hook a person into giving consideration to his messages..............doesn't make it Biblical Truth.

And, not for nothing, but as I read your comment, it seems you are misrepresenting what Calvin actually wrote/taught. Just saying..............

p_rehbein · Jul 23, 2014

A simple example of the fallacy of Calvin's ideology:

Irresistible Grace:
When God calls his elect into salvation, they cannot resist. God offers to all people the gospel message. This is called the external call. But to the elect, God extends an internal call and it cannot be resisted. This call is by the Holy Spirit who works in the hearts and minds of the elect to bring them to repentance and regeneration whereby they willingly and freely come to God.

Those who "cannot resist" by definition CAN NOT "willingly and freely" come to God.............they had NO CHOICE..........they COULD NOT RESIST.............

p_rehbein · Jul 23, 2014

Just what did Calvin mean when he penned these things? He was writing in rebuttal to the Arminian position of salvation by works right?

You believe that Arminian theology teaches salvation by works?

eternally-gratefull · Jul 23, 2014

I would say a big flaw is their interpretation of total depravity.

TO be depraved means you can do not good. You are bound by self interest, thus all you do, (whether morally good according to the law or not) is of self interest thus sin. "there are no righteous, no not one"

Yet this does not mean one can not see their need, see their danger, and their plight, A non believer can be in a situation where they need saved and totally helpless. and have faith in the savior and be saved from natural disaster, Sickness, or sinful habits (thats why A non believer can quit drinking because he knows if he does not he will die, Still self interest, but still able to see his danger and do what it takes to be saved, even if it means alot humble pie.

Of course, having faith is someone else to save you is NOT A GOOD WORK. You did not do anything, You just trusted them to pull you from the burning building, Take the heavy rocks off of you and carry you out, even though they risked their lives. I would like to see a person who allowed someone who saved them to boast of how much work THEY DID to save themselves.

so of course, unlike calvanists, who fear (yes I understand where they come from and why they believe) having any kind of work whatsoever, to save themselves (by grave through faith not of works) but our faith is not a work. It is God who saved us, who pulled us out of the crumbling building because every bone in our body was broke, and we could not even move, to get the heavy walls and crumbling concrete off of us, and crawl out, we were TOTALLY dependent on a savior to save us.

Total depravity is an inability to stop sin. But not an inability to see you need help. And see God as the only one who can help you, and trust him in your desperate state.

eternally-gratefull · Jul 23, 2014

p_rehbein said:

For myself, Yes, that is why I reject Arminianism.

and as you see, I also reject calvanism.

notuptome · Jul 23, 2014

p_rehbein said:

I have some reference material on my shelf about Calvin and the Council of Dort or whatever it was. I am not a Calvinist. I am not an Arminian. I am a biblical Christian.

I believe that men both for Calvin and against Calvin have embellished his writing to support their biases. It is only the Word of God that is reliable in these matters. Is there any edification to be gained by striving over these matters?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

dcontroversal · Jul 23, 2014

Well......You know the guy who started the way of life I try to follow had a last name that started with C and it was not Calvin........!

p_rehbein · Jul 23, 2014

His first Name starts with a "J" and it ain't John either........

dcontroversal · Jul 23, 2014

p_rehbein said:

HAHAHAH AMEN and I concur HAHAH!

eternally-gratefull · Jul 23, 2014

dcontroversal said:

was that his last name, or title?

if it was who I am thinking of, His last name did not start with a C, I do not think we know his last name

eternally-gratefull · Jul 23, 2014

p_rehbein said:

hmmmm... Judas????

Zinzerio · Jul 23, 2014

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United we stand devided we fall
Lost but but can be found
Invisible but ever watching
Prudent

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