The phony evangelism of Calvinism

[ChosenbyHim]

The phony evangelism of Calvinism


[video=youtube_share;6XyGpCdsBNk]http://youtu.be/6XyGpCdsBNk?list=UU9Qdmnxz6SkqWnVN_SxUSUg[/video]


Published on Jul 21, 2014
In this video I look at the phony evangelism of Calvinism.
Calvinist's make exhortations and appeals to the unsaved man to be saved when they believe that decision has already been made by God and that the spiritually dead man cannot respond to these appeals.
I use James White's 'Letter's To A Mormon Elder' as an example of this hypocritical form of evangelism.
White acknowledges that the man he is writing to cannot make any decision, but still pleads with him!
Moreover, White says he is going to pray for the man when White believes God's sovereign decision has already been made!
These phony, emotional appeals are simply attempts by Calvinists to make their satanic philosophical system appear to be Biblical.

 

[crossnote]

I agree a Calvinist has difficulties reconciling their doctrines with presenting the gospel.

But I highly doubt a calvinist would tell a person that 'they cannot make a decision''...just read any of Spurgeon sermons.
And 'satanic' is a term that is wayyyy over the top when referring to calvinists and to use it lessens the credibility of the one using it.

 

[JimmieD]

I think a Calvinist will probably say that just as God ordained who would be saved, he also ordained the method and means by which they would be saved. That instrument of their coming to salvation is the preaching and hearing of the gospel. God didn't tell the Calvinist who he had or hadn't elected, he just told him to go preach the gospel. So, I think for the Calvinist, there is no contradiction; he doesn't know who is or isn't elect, he just knows that God calls the elect through the preaching and hearing of the gospel. So the Calvinist will preach the gospel just as an Arminian will.

 

[crossnote]

I think a Calvinist will probably say that just as God ordained who would be saved, he also ordained the method and means by which they would be saved. That instrument of their coming to salvation is the preaching and hearing of the gospel. God didn't tell the Calvinist who he had or hadn't elected, he just told him to go preach the gospel. So, I think for the Calvinist, there is no contradiction; he doesn't know who is or isn't elect, he just knows that God calls the elect through the preaching and hearing of the gospel. So the Calvinist will preach the gospel just as an Arminian will.

Except a calvinist can't say 'Christ died for YOUR sins'...if he holds to limited atonement...the one who believes Christ died for all, can say that.

 

[posthuman]

funny how old testament prophets brought the word of God to a people they knew couldn't receive it. should we condemn and mock them?

When you tell them all this, they will not listen to you; when you call to them, they will not answer.
(Jeremiah 7:27)

But the people of Israel are not willing to listen to you because they are not willing to listen to me, for all the Israelites are hardened and obstinate.
(Ezekiel 3:7)

Go and tell this people: "Be ever hearing, but never understanding; be ever seeing, but never perceiving."
(Isaiah 6:9)

God, knowing that Israel had killed the prophets He sent to her, sent His son, also knowing He would be rejected. (Matthew 21:33-46)
Jesus instructed His disciples to go out into all the world and spread the good news of the kingdom, and also told them that this same world would hate them and reject the Truth. (Mark 16:15, Mark 13:13)

 

[chubbena]

The beauty of quoting out of context without referencing why and to whom the Institutes of Christian Religion was written.

 

[JimmieD]

Except a calvinist can't say 'Christ died for YOUR sins'...if he holds to limited atonement...the one who believes Christ died for all, can say that.

Can he? Why do people end up in hell then? It seems that he didn't die for the sins of those who end up in hell - or if he did, then it seems he somehow failed to accomplish something he intended to accomplish. So I don't know that someone who holds to unlimited atonement can say to someone "Christ died for your sins," since if they abstain from believing, then Jesus indeed didn't die for their sins. Or if they never even hear the gospel then it seems he didn't die for their sins.

 

[Atwood]

The phony evangelism of Arminianism

Rather than stare at the obnoxious thread title about Calvinism, I figured I may as well start a counterthread called


The phony evangelism of Arminianism.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/96207-phony-evangelism-arminianism.html

What type of evangelism is it which changes "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved" to Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and get a chance at Heaven"?

What type of evangelism is it which changes,

"Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins" to
"He shall give His temporary associates a chance to keep themselves free from sin by their free will"?

Sound phony to me.

 

[skipp]

Must we really call other Christians "satanic"?

 

[Atwood]

The phony evangelism of Arminianism

Must we really call other Christians "satanic"?

We may call their doctrine by that name only if it is so unbliblical as Arminianism.

What else do we call a theory that reduces Christ for Savior to chance-giver?

 

[Atwood]

Re: The phony evangelism of Arminianism

Can he? Why do people end up in hell then? It seems that he didn't die for the sins of those who end up in hell - or if he did, then it seems he somehow failed to accomplish something he intended to accomplish. So I don't know that someone who holds to unlimited atonement can say to someone "Christ died for your sins," since if they abstain from believing, then Jesus indeed didn't die for their sins. Or if they never even hear the gospel then it seems he didn't die for their sins.

Jimmie, you forgot to change the term Calvinism in the title to Arminianism. You can do that by clicking "go advanced."

First the word "for" is capable of different interps.

Second, Christ did die for everyone (1 John 2:2; John 3:16).

Third, what do you think of this formula:

Christ's death was sufficient for all, but only efficient for the elect?

 

[Atwood]

Re: The phony evangelism of Arminianism

Can he? Why do people end up in hell then? It seems that he didn't die for the sins of those who end up in hell - or if he did, then it seems he somehow failed to accomplish something he intended to accomplish. So I don't know that someone who holds to unlimited atonement can say to someone "Christ died for your sins," since if they abstain from believing, then Jesus indeed didn't die for their sins. Or if they never even hear the gospel then it seems he didn't die for their sins.

Jimmie, you forgot to change the term Calvinism in the title to Arminianism. You can do that by clicking "go advanced."

First the word "for" is capable of different interps.

Second, Christ did die for everyone (1 John 2:2; John 3:16).

Third, what do you think of this formula?:

Christ's death was sufficient for all, but only efficient for the elect.

 

[crossnote]

Can he? Why do people end up in hell then? It seems that he didn't die for the sins of those who end up in hell - or if he did, then it seems he somehow failed to accomplish something he intended to accomplish. So I don't know that someone who holds to unlimited atonement can say to someone "Christ died for your sins," since if they abstain from believing, then Jesus indeed didn't die for their sins. Or if they never even hear the gospel then it seems he didn't die for their sins.

That's all assuming Christ did not die for 'all', 'all men', 'the world', etc.
A person can purchase a gift for another and yet have it refused. Doesn't mean it wasn't purchased for the one refusing it.

 

[JimmieD]

.....

Jimmie, you forgot to change the term Calvinism in the title to Arminianism. You can do that by clicking "go advanced."

Ha; didn't even notice it till just now.

 

[JimmieD]

Re:

That's all assuming Christ did not die for 'all', 'all men', 'the world', etc.
A person can purchase a gift for another and yet have it refused. Doesn't mean it wasn't purchased for the one refusing it.

So it seems that he potentially died for their sins. So maybe when we talk to others instead of saying, "Jesus died for your sins" we ought to say, "Jesus may have/potentially died for your sins." You can't say "Jesus died for your sins" unless they are saved.

I think both sides end up saying that Jesus only died for the sins of the saved, since the unsaved end up in hell. Potentially, he died for those the end up in hell, but for the death to be effectual, either (a) according to the Arminian camp they must take action or (b) according to the Calvinist they must be the elect, which oddly enough results in the same action the Arminians are looking for.

 

[Hashe]

It isn't just evangelism that is phony in Calvinism, prayer is also reduce to nothing more than acknowledging God's greatness. In Calvinism, prayer achieves nothing. So no point in praying, other to say, 'God is great', like a good moslem.

 

[posthuman]

It isn't just evangelism that is phony in Calvinism, prayer is also reduce to nothing more than acknowledging God's greatness. In Calvinism, prayer achieves nothing. So no point in praying, other to say, 'God is great', like a good moslem.

i happen to like acknowledging God's greatness.

How good it is to sing praises to our God,
how pleasant and fitting to praise him!
(Psalm 147:1)

 

[posthuman]

prayer is also reduce to nothing more than acknowledging God's greatness.

is there a part of this that is not acknowledging God's greatness?

Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name.
Your kingdom come,
your will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread,
and forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil.

(Matthew 6:9-13)


nevertheless, not My will, but Yours, be done.

(Luke 22:42)

 

[Zinzerio]

(2 Chron. 29:27) to intimate with what joy and delight they performed their duty to God, and to raise the minds of those that attended the services to a holy triumph in the God they worshipped. And then their performances were for a memorial before God; for he takes pleasure in our religious exercises when we take pleasure in them. Holy work should be done with holy joy.

 

[Zinzerio]

can you see the above post in this post

2 Chronicles 29:27-28New International Version (NIV)


[SUP]27 [/SUP]Hezekiah gave the order to sacrifice the burnt offering on the altar. As the offering began, singing to the Lord began also, accompanied by trumpets and the instruments of David king of Israel. [SUP]28 [/SUP]The whole assembly bowed in worship, while the musicians played and the trumpets sounded. All this continued until the sacrifice of the burnt offering was completed.