Uncovering The Mysteries

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Nov 23, 2013
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#21
New wine is the Holy Spirit if you can't see that then sorry... I must move on to how the new wine and how it relates to the book of Joel and the day of the Lord.

The question I asked was:
Why were the drunkards to weep and howl? The answer is because of the new wine... it was cut off from their mouth.
Cutoff from who's mouth? The Jews.

New question, when was the new wine cut off from the Jews?
 
U

Ukorin

Guest
#22
New wine is the Holy Spirit if you can't see that then sorry... I must move on to how the new wine and how it relates to the book of Joel and the day of the Lord.

The question I asked was:
Why were the drunkards to weep and howl? The answer is because of the new wine... it was cut off from their mouth.
Cutoff from who's mouth? The Jews.

New question, when was the new wine cut off from the Jews?
I am following, but try to use phrases like "the physical nation of Israel", because many Jews have accepted Christ. It Doesn't turn them into Gentiles when they are saved.

Saying "Jews" in that context will make some people misunderstand.

-----------
To answer your question: At the rejection of Christ. The Crucifixion.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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#23
I am following, but try to use phrases like "the physical nation of Israel", because many Jews have accepted Christ. It Doesn't turn them into Gentiles when they are saved.

Saying "Jews" in that context will make some people misunderstand.

-----------
To answer your question: At the rejection of Christ. The Crucifixion.
Yes you are right about the terminology and thanks for the correction.

Yes I agree the new wine was cut off at the crucifixion. Now read down verses 5 - 15. I don't see any breaks in those verses. In other words the new wine is cut off then comes the day of the Lord. I've always been taught the day of the Lord comes at the end, but I'm not so sure that's true anymore. I am finding scripture after scripture pointing to the day of the Lord referring to the destruction of the nation of Israel.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not sure this is true, that's why I'm bringing this up for discussion. This is only one of a few other places I would like to discuss. I don't have a doctrine I'm trying to hold up, I'm just looking for the truth.

But as for this passage, do you see any breaks between the new wine being cut off and the day of the Lord?



Joe 1:5 Awake, ye drunkards, and weep; and howl, all ye drinkers of wine, because of the new wine; for it is cut off from your mouth.
Joe 1:6 For a nation is come up upon my land, strong, and without number, whose teeth are the teeth of a lion, and he hath the cheek teeth of a great lion.
Joe 1:7 He hath laid my vine waste, and barked my fig tree: he hath made it clean bare, and cast it away; the branches thereof are made white.
Joe 1:8 Lament like a virgin girded with sackcloth for the husband of her youth.
Joe 1:9 The meat offering and the drink offering is cut off from the house of the LORD; the priests, the LORD'S ministers, mourn.
Joe 1:10 The field is wasted, the land mourneth; for the corn is wasted: the new wine is dried up, the oil languisheth.
Joe 1:11 Be ye ashamed, O ye husbandmen; howl, O ye vinedressers, for the wheat and for the barley; because the harvest of the field is perished.
Joe 1:12 The vine is dried up, and the fig tree languisheth; the pomegranate tree, the palm tree also, and the apple tree, even all the trees of the field, are withered: because joy is withered away from the sons of men.
Joe 1:13 Gird yourselves, and lament, ye priests: howl, ye ministers of the altar: come, lie all night in sackcloth, ye ministers of my God: for the meat offering and the drink offering is withholden from the house of your God.
Joe 1:14 Sanctify ye a fast, call a solemn assembly, gather the elders and all the inhabitants of the land into the house of the LORD your God, and cry unto the LORD,
Joe 1:15 Alas for the day! for the day of the LORD is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come.
 
U

Ukorin

Guest
#24
Yes you are right about the terminology and thanks for the correction.

Yes I agree the new wine was cut off at the crucifixion. Now read down verses 5 - 15. I don't see any breaks in those verses. In other words the new wine is cut off then comes the day of the Lord. I've always been taught the day of the Lord comes at the end, but I'm not so sure that's true anymore. I am finding scripture after scripture pointing to the day of the Lord referring to the destruction of the nation of Israel.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not sure this is true, that's why I'm bringing this up for discussion. This is only one of a few other places I would like to discuss. I don't have a doctrine I'm trying to hold up, I'm just looking for the truth.

But as for this passage, do you see any breaks between the new wine being cut off and the day of the Lord?



Joe 1:5 Awake, ye drunkards, and weep; and howl, all ye drinkers of wine, because of the new wine; for it is cut off from your mouth.
Joe 1:6 For a nation is come up upon my land, strong, and without number, whose teeth are the teeth of a lion, and he hath the cheek teeth of a great lion.
Joe 1:7 He hath laid my vine waste, and barked my fig tree: he hath made it clean bare, and cast it away; the branches thereof are made white.
Joe 1:8 Lament like a virgin girded with sackcloth for the husband of her youth.
Joe 1:9 The meat offering and the drink offering is cut off from the house of the LORD; the priests, the LORD'S ministers, mourn.
Joe 1:10 The field is wasted, the land mourneth; for the corn is wasted: the new wine is dried up, the oil languisheth.
Joe 1:11 Be ye ashamed, O ye husbandmen; howl, O ye vinedressers, for the wheat and for the barley; because the harvest of the field is perished.
Joe 1:12 The vine is dried up, and the fig tree languisheth; the pomegranate tree, the palm tree also, and the apple tree, even all the trees of the field, are withered: because joy is withered away from the sons of men.
Joe 1:13 Gird yourselves, and lament, ye priests: howl, ye ministers of the altar: come, lie all night in sackcloth, ye ministers of my God: for the meat offering and the drink offering is withholden from the house of your God.
Joe 1:14 Sanctify ye a fast, call a solemn assembly, gather the elders and all the inhabitants of the land into the house of the LORD your God, and cry unto the LORD,
Joe 1:15 Alas for the day! for the day of the LORD is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come.
The Day of the Lord speaks of 3 events:
The Exile,
The Coming of the Messiah/Redeemed/Son of Man,
The Judgement of all the wicked on earth.

They are often spoken as one event,
but we see that they are not one event, as is revealed in the NT.

The destruction of the 2nd Temple seems to be tied to the Coming of the Messiah, which we see spiritually fulfilled when He became the perfect sacrifice on the Cross,
and then physically in 70ad.
 
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Nov 23, 2013
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#25
The Day of the Lord speaks of 3 events:
The Exile,
The Coming of the Messiah/Redeemed/Son of Man,
The Judgement of the wicked on earth.

They are often spoken as one event,
but we see that they are not one event, as is revealed in the NT.
Where does the bible say the day of the Lord is three events?
 
U

Ukorin

Guest
#26
Where does the bible say the day of the Lord is three events?
It is implied by necessity.
The Lord has not destroyed the earth, which is prophesied to happen on the Day of the Lord,
yet Messiah has already come,
and the Israelites had been cut off, and the Jews had been exiled and returned centuries before Christ came.

They are all said to happen on the Day of the Lord,
including the suffering of the savior.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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#27
It is implied by necessity.
The Lord has not destroyed the earth, which is prophesied to happen on the Day of the Lord,
yet Messiah has already come,
and the Israelites had been cut off, and the Jews had been exiled and returned centuries before Christ came.

They are all said to happen on the Day of the Lord,
including the suffering of the savior.
Ok, where does the bible say the Lord will destroy the earth on the day of the Lord? I'm not trying to be a pain here, I just don't see that in scripture.:)
 
Nov 2, 2013
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#28
I'm arrogant because I know something you don't know and I'm trying to explain it to you????
What a rude comment man... you know absolutely nothing about my motivations.
Don't let them kill you brother...they only desire to be right, allow it. You are on the correct path.
 
Nov 2, 2013
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#30
You know when you have done a good job....they will all flee from your thread and into others seeking the same thing they tried to find in your thread or they will hide and you have 15 guest and you are the only member. LOL
 
Nov 23, 2013
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#31
You know when you have done a good job....they will all flee from your thread and into others seeking the same thing they tried to find in your thread or they will hide and you have 15 guest and you are the only member. LOL
Now that's funny... I truly did LOL. And it's so true.
I really don't want to run people off, I want to study this out with others to see if I'm right.
 
K

Kerry

Guest
#32
People really don't want the truth. Just what tickles the ears.
 
U

Ukorin

Guest
#33
Ok, where does the bible say the Lord will destroy the earth on the day of the Lord? I'm not trying to be a pain here, I just don't see that in scripture.

There is some connective work to be done. I am not fully equipped, but I will try to show you. It has been a few years since I did anything on this topic.

First notice that Isaiah 34 and 35 are part of a single prophecy, yet Christ said that he fulfilled at least 2 verses in chapter 35.

Now you have the "telescopic principle". This means that within one prophecy, several separate events can be prophesied without distinction by the prophet.

Now if we look at Joel 2 :)11,30-32) and 3:1-16, Zech 14, Isaiah 24, Malachi 4, Ezekiel 30.

Each one describes both things that occurred, and things that are yet to come.

It can't possibly have occurred in 70ad, as the stars can still be seen today, and the heavens have not been shaken from their roots, and the earth from it's foundation.

Scan through this list of all the uses of "Day of the Lord" and you will see the broad picture that is painted What Does the Bible Say About Day Of The Lord?

We have the benifit of the NT where Peter tells us in 2 Peter 2:10But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar;the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare.[a]
 
Nov 2, 2013
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#34
Now that's funny... I truly did LOL. And it's so true.
I really don't want to run people off, I want to study this out with others to see if I'm right.
I know, I share the same desire brother but there are many who only work evil. I am not trying to change the thread but I just thought these things should be said so after this post I am going to stop the rant. Here is what I base it off.....

And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;[SUP]19 [/SUP]I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

[SUP]28 [/SUP]And I will give him the morning star.


Just as David went to Jerusalem to conquer and those there told him...THOU SHALL NOT ENTER HERE etc etc...but he over came and destroyed the evil there and it was given to him to be a king...not because he sought out the reward of being a king but because he had faith in God and wanted to destroy the evil it was only after that he found out about the rewards of being right. "Remember the verse that says...THEY HAVE THEIR REWARD"

And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?


.........

And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]But there shall not an hair of your head perish.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]In your patience possess ye your souls.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
[SUP]26 [/SUP]Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
[SUP]30 [/SUP]When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
[SUP]33 [/SUP]Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
[SUP]35 [/SUP]For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
[SUP]36 [/SUP]Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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#35

There is some connective work to be done. I am not fully equipped, but I will try to show you. It has been a few years since I did anything on this topic.

First notice that Isaiah 34 and 35 are part of a single prophecy, yet Christ said that he fulfilled at least 2 verses in chapter 35.

Now you have the "telescopic principle". This means that within one prophecy, several separate events can be prophesied without distinction by the prophet.

Now if we look at Joel 2 :)11,30-32) and 3:1-16, Zech 14, Isaiah 24, Malachi 4, Ezekiel 30.

Each one describes both things that occurred, and things that are yet to come.

It can't possibly have occurred in 70ad, as the stars can still be seen today, and the heavens have not been shaken from their roots, and the earth from it's foundation.

Scan through this list of all the uses of "Day of the Lord" and you will see the broad picture that is painted What Does the Bible Say About Day Of The Lord?

We have the benifit of the NT where Peter tells us in 2 Peter 2:10But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar;the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare.[a]
Hey not a problem ukoring this is not an easy subject. It's very symbolic and is talked about in many different places in the bible. I hope this thread will hold out long enough to get to those verses you posted. But for now do you see anything in Joel 1 that points to a time span between the new wine and the day of the Lord? If not I will move on to the next one.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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#36
I know, I share the same desire brother but there are many who only work evil. I am not trying to change the thread but I just thought these things should be said so after this post I am going to stop the rant. Here is what I base it off.....

And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;[SUP]19 [/SUP]I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

[SUP]28 [/SUP]And I will give him the morning star.


Just as David went to Jerusalem to conquer and those there told him...THOU SHALL NOT ENTER HERE etc etc...but he over came and destroyed the evil there and it was given to him to be a king...not because he sought out the reward of being a king but because he had faith in God and wanted to destroy the evil it was only after that he found out about the rewards of being right. "Remember the verse that says...THEY HAVE THEIR REWARD"

And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?


.........

And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]But there shall not an hair of your head perish.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]In your patience possess ye your souls.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
[SUP]26 [/SUP]Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
[SUP]30 [/SUP]When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
[SUP]33 [/SUP]Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
[SUP]35 [/SUP]For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
[SUP]36 [/SUP]Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
I know where you're coming from jag and I hope you will hang around this thread for a while and see where this goes. I want to eventually get to all of the things you posted. For now, in your opinion does Joel 1 tell us the day of the Lord comes at the end? Just based on Joel 1.
 
Feb 21, 2012
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#37
I'm assuming that you see no spiritual significance in new wine. Do you think Jesus in Luke is giving us a lesson in how to store our wine or is there more to it?

Luk 5:37 And no man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish.
Luk 5:38 But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved.
Luk 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.
#1 - Acts 2:13 - the mockers and unbelievers accused the ones filled with the Holy Spirit as being 'filled with new wine'. IOW - accused them of being drunk. Why else would Peter say - For these are not drunken as you suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.

#2 - Luke 5:37-39 "In the text and its parallels allusion is made to the use of skins [bottles]. When the skin is green, it stretches by fermentation of the liquor and retains its integrity; but when it becomes old and dry, the fermentation of the new wine soon causes it to burst". Bible Manners and Customs James M. Freeman

I can see where there could be a relation to the old covenant and the new covenant. - But not that 'new wine' is the Holy Spirit. There is no need to read anything into the text that is not there unless you just choose to do so.

Now on to the rest of the thread . . . :)
 
Nov 23, 2013
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#38
#1 - Acts 2:13 - the mockers and unbelievers accused the ones filled with the Holy Spirit as being 'filled with new wine'. IOW - accused them of being drunk. Why else would Peter say - For these are not drunken as you suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.

#2 - Luke 5:37-39 "In the text and its parallels allusion is made to the use of skins [bottles]. When the skin is green, it stretches by fermentation of the liquor and retains its integrity; but when it becomes old and dry, the fermentation of the new wine soon causes it to burst". Bible Manners and Customs James M. Freeman

I can see where there could be a relation to the old covenant and the new covenant. - But not that 'new wine' is the Holy Spirit. There is no need to read anything into the text that is not there unless you just choose to do so.

Now on to the rest of the thread . . . :)
We wont agree on everything and that's ok... who knows you may change my mind on this. :)
 
Jul 25, 2013
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#39
Now that's funny... I truly did LOL. And it's so true.
I really don't want to run people off, I want to study this out with others to see if I'm right.
You didn't run me off and I'm certainly not out to debase you in any way shape or form, I read a post, think about what it is trying to tell me and check the spirits.....
I'd like to first have you understand something, I picked a bunch of wild grapes 8 or 9 months ago and put then in a 1 gallon milk jug, plastic, with a large hole I put in at the top, stems and all. Then I made another jug like the first and pulled the grapes from the stems and put them all in the other jug till I had filled it full of nothing but grapes. I had no food and was homeless and was living in an old canning factory warehouse, so when I saw food for the taking out in the bushes....I TOOK and that's what I lived on for 2 whole months. I had electricity there and I had an electric coleman cooler where I kept them. The point is, in only two weeks time some of my containers had become fermented all on their own without adding anything to them, so I had to learn to pick and eat daily to avoid getting high. New wine can definitely get you high. Why do you think people drink champagne on their wedding night...It's the bubbles, it's the fermenting process, it don't have to be old wine to get a buzz. So instead of looking for a different meaning to this:

Act 2:13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.
Act 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
Act 2:15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
Act 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

Peter said in essence, Act 2:15 these men are not drunk on new wine as you stated, but....
Now the word BUT in this instance is disagreeing, which is what Peter did. He disagreed with them.
You stated in an above post that Peter wasn't disagreeing, and this is not so. And the meaning of the words, new wine, in Acts 2:13 in context ment to those mockers simply, wine that was freshly made and not the HS. Peter never said, this is the new wine which is the HS, he simply said, this is what was prophesied by.....and the prophet Joel never used the words new wine either.
Even though new wine is certainly used in scripture, in this instance it just means new wine made by man and nothing more.
The focus isn't on the new wine, it is on the prophecy of Joel. The speaking of Gods word by men of other tongues.
As far as your other posts, I'm sure I've agreed with some and will probably disagree with others. It's a bible discussion forum, that's what this forum is for, and certainly nothing personal. I'm sure you disagree with some of my statements too.
I have no hard feelings and wish for you to have none either. :)
P.S. And I guess I should say in all fairness, this is just my opinion.
 
Nov 2, 2013
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I have not read Joel since I decided to read the entire bible about 20 years ago. I just have not be brought back to it until just now. You are right and I know because I somehow chose to post those revelation verses in support of my point of being right and you holding face in the sight of men and now after reading joel 1 I see that a full circle has been completed and everything we post, even on two separate topics, are included in joel 1. That is pretty awesome