The Second Coming of Jesus

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Jul 21, 2014
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It seems to me that the Bible indicates many times that Jesus was going to return in the first century, during the generation of his disciples. It is my opinion, that if Jesus hasn't come back yet, he isn't going to. A lot of people think that Jesus returned in 70 AD, and that Revalation foretold the destruction of Jerusalem as an avenging of the apostles and prophets who were martyred and persecuted. This isn't just a gut feeling or something. It is backed by scripture, which I will provide. Now, I realize some strongly disagree with this, which is why I am posting it on a forum, but please, let me know why (biblically) you think I'm wrong, without throwing around insults. I realize it is a passionate subjuct, but try to keep the enthusiasm positive :)

The scriptural evidence...
Matthew 10:23
“23 When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next, for truly, I say to you, you will not have gone through all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.”
-Jesus tells his disciples to preach the word in Israel, and to just move on to the next town if they were persecuted, because Jesus would come before they had been to every town in Israel
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Matthew 16:27-28
“27 For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done. 28 Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”
-Jesus says to his disciples that some of the would not die before Jesus “comes in his Kingdom”
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Matt. 24:29-34
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. 32 “From the fig tree learn its lesson: as soon as its branch becomes tender and puts out its leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So also, when you see all these things, you know that he is near, at the very gates. 34 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.”
-Unless Jesus was lying, he had to come back, and all of those things had to happen before the generation he was speaking to died out, so assuming the disciples were the same age as Jesus give or take 10 years, in 50 years or less, assuming they live to the generous age of 80.
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Acts 3:19-21 & Matt 5:17-18
19 Repent therefore, and turn back, that your sins may be blotted out, 20 that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that he may send the Christ appointed for you, Jesus, 21 whom heaven must receive until the time for restoring all the things about which God spoke by the mouth of his holy prophets long ago.”….”17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.”
-This is a more obscure piece of evidence, but could indicate that if all of the prophecies were not yet fulfilled then we would still be under the Old covenant law, which we are not (some would disagree with this I know, if that is the case, just ignore this as evidence). Peter says in Acts 3:18 that Jesus would return when the prophecies were fulfilled.
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1 Cor. 7:28-31
“29 What I mean, brothers and sisters, is that the time is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they do not; 30 those who mourn, as if they did not; those who are happy, as if they were not; those who buy something, as if it were not theirs to keep; 31 those who use the things of the world, as if not engrossed in them. For this world in its present form is passing away.”
-Paul tells people to start worrying about nothing but God, because the world isn’t going to last much longer. this was said 1900 years ago
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Hebrews 9:28, 10:37
“28 so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.”...”37 For,“Yet a little while,
and the coming one will come and will not delay”
-1900 years ago it was said that Christ would come a second time, and the coming one would not delay. He would come in a little while.
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James 5:7-9
“7 Be patient, therefore, brothers, until the coming of the Lord. See how the farmer waits for the precious fruit of the earth, being patient about it, until it receives the early and the late rains. 8 You also, be patient. Establish your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand.”
-James also says 1900 years ago that the coming of Jesus is at hand, and the Judge is at the door
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1 John 2:15-18
“15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride of life—is not from the Father but is from the world. 17 And the world is passing away along with its desires, but whoever does the will of God abides forever. 18 Children, it is the last hour, and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. Therefore we know that it is the last hour.”
The author claims in his letter, to the people he is writing to, that it is the last hour. This was addressed to those living 1900 years ago. He also said there have been many antichrists, so those waiting for one today have missed it apparently.
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Revelation: many times
1:1”The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants the things that must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,”
1:3“ Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear, and who keep what is written in it, for the time is near.”
10:6”and swore by him who lives forever and ever, who created heaven and what is in it, the earth and what is in it, and the sea and what is in it, that there would be no more delay,”
22:10“And he said to me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near.
22:7“And behold, I am coming soon. Blessed is the one who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book.”
22:12“Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense with me, to repay each one for what he has done.”
22:20”He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!”
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#2
And many will say...Where is the promise of his coming........! I seem to remember something about them being ignorant of a few facts of history.....!
 
F

FireHeart

Guest
#3
Well Cybertech say your right about that- what happened to jesus and his saints reigning on earth for 1000 years? why then is there still sin when there will be a new earth and heaven and satan forever defeated? satan still has his grip on this world and with the book of revelations only 20% of it tops has come to pass
 
Jul 21, 2014
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#4
Well Cybertech say your right about that- what happened to jesus and his saints reigning on earth for 1000 years? why then is there still sin when there will be a new earth and heaven and satan forever defeated? satan still has his grip on this world and with the book of revelations only 20% of it tops has come to pass
Well, I don't believe the Bible actually teaches the pre-trib raprue, or a millenial reign or any of that. It would take a long time to discuss why, and I would need to ask for help from my wonderful mom, who has studied it way more than me.

But besides that, even if all that is supposed to happen after Jesus returns, why does it say so many times that it would happen soon when it was written 2000 years ago? How are we supposed to interpret these things?
 
Dec 18, 2013
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#5
Well, I don't believe the Bible actually teaches the pre-trib raprue, or a millenial reign or any of that. It would take a long time to discuss why, and I would need to ask for help from my wonderful mom, who has studied it way more than me.

But besides that, even if all that is supposed to happen after Jesus returns, why does it say so many times that it would happen soon when it was written 2000 years ago? How are we supposed to interpret these things?
There is no private interpretation. Jesus will come soon.

I find that Peter tends to answer most of today's common eschatological quandries and mis-interpretations quite well in this chapter:

2 Peter 3

3 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
[SUP]7 [/SUP]But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
[SUP]16 [/SUP]As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
 
Jul 21, 2014
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#6
I see your point. As far as interpretation, I didn't mean making something up to suit a need. There is only one thing it means, but we have I figure out what that is. When I say interpret I mean the dictionary definition of assigning meaning to written symbols.

But again, this epistle was written to a church 2000 years ago warning those people to be ready for him to come like a thief in the night. And all those other verses I gave in the OP were addressed to the people living 2000 years ago. You say Jesus is coming soon, but at what point does sooner become later? Are all those verses saying there will be no more delay and that he is coming soon meant only for is today, but not for those in the past or future? People from every generation thought it was addressed to them. And what am I to make of Jesus telling his disciples he will return before some of those standing there died? I have to consider those as well as Peter 3 to get the full picture. And the full picture looks like Jesus was supposed to come back in the generation of those who wrote the Bible.
 

starfield

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2009
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#7
It seems to me that the Bible indicates many times that Jesus was going to return in the first century, during the generation of his disciples. It is my opinion, that if Jesus hasn't come back yet, he isn't going to. A lot of people think that Jesus returned in 70 AD, and that Revalation foretold the destruction of Jerusalem as an avenging of the apostles and prophets who were martyred and persecuted. This isn't just a gut feeling or something. It is backed by scripture, which I will provide. Now, I realize some strongly disagree with this, which is why I am posting it on a forum, but please, let me know why (biblically) you think I'm wrong, without throwing around insults. I realize it is a passionate subjuct, but try to keep the enthusiasm positive :)
...
Full preterism is heretical for it denies fundamental biblical truths held by the early church. Scripture teaches that there will be a physical, visible return of Christ, a resurrection, final judgement, and eternity. Jesus came in 70AD through Jerusalem's destruction, but that was not His visible second coming.
 
Jul 21, 2014
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#8
Can you show me which scriptures teach that his second coming will be a visible one? As opposed to people seeing the power and glory resulting from his return? I'm not saying you're wrong, I just don't know which scriptures to read to verify it.
 

starfield

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2009
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#9
Can you show me which scriptures teach that his second coming will be a visible one? As opposed to people seeing the power and glory resulting from his return? I'm not saying you're wrong, I just don't know which scriptures to read to verify it.
In Acts 1:9-11, the angels announced that Christ will return the same way He departed, which is visibly and gloriously. Hebrews 9:28 says that Christ will appear a second time – it will undoubtedly be a literal appearance. His first advent was to sacrifice Himself for the sins of many, while during His second advent believers will be saved via the resurrection of life. Also, read 1 Corinthians 15 and 1 Thessalonians 4:15-18 concerning the parousia and resurrection.

 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#10
Can you show me which scriptures teach that his second coming will be a visible one? As opposed to people seeing the power and glory resulting from his return? I'm not saying you're wrong, I just don't know which scriptures to read to verify it.
Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him, and all tribes of the earth will wail on account of him. Even so. Amen.
(Rev 1:7)

Can't get more visible than that.
 

starfield

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2009
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#11
Well Cybertech say your right about that- what happened to jesus and his saints reigning on earth for 1000 years? why then is there still sin when there will be a new earth and heaven and satan forever defeated? satan still has his grip on this world and with the book of revelations only 20% of it tops has come to pass
Actually, Jesus is presently reigning from heaven. Scripture does not teach a literal, earthly reign of Christ. His reign began when He ascended into heaven and took His seat at the right hand of God...

Act 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

And, believers are reigning with Him now...

Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Rev 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#12
Scripture does teach an earthly reign...

Isa 2:2 It shall come to pass in the latter days that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established as the highest of the mountains, and shall be lifted up above the hills; and all the nations shall flow to it,
Isa 2:3 and many peoples shall come, and say: "Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob, that he may teach us his ways and that we may walk in his paths." For out of Zion shall go the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
Isa 2:4 He shall judge between the nations, and shall decide disputes for many peoples; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore.

Mic 4:1 It shall come to pass in the latter days that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established as the highest of the mountains, and it shall be lifted up above the hills; and peoples shall flow to it,
Mic 4:2 and many nations shall come, and say: "Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob, that he may teach us his ways and that we may walk in his paths." For out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
Mic 4:3 He shall judge between many peoples, and shall decide for strong nations far away; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore;
Mic 4:4 but they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree, and no one shall make them afraid, for the mouth of the LORD of hosts has spoken.
Mic 4:5 For all the peoples walk each in the name of its god, but we will walk in the name of the LORD our God forever and ever.
 
Jul 21, 2014
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#13
Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him, and all tribes of the earth will wail on account of him. Even so. Amen.
(Rev 1:7)

Can't get more visible than that.
But even this verse seems to indicaate that this would happen soon after Christ died. Even those who pierced him would see his return. Those who pierced him have been dead for centuries.
 
Jun 4, 2014
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#14
He comes as quickly as any soul leaves this earth. What will happen is a mass awakening of the mind of Christ in all of mankind who are alive after the world goes to war when the dollar collapses.
 
Jun 4, 2014
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#15
We must remember that every man gets his reward. Will it be Christ that greets you or another lord that tears you asunder? Hell can be avoids NOW by doing away with money and living and working for another. But if we do not believe, we will all likewise perish from the earth!
 
Jul 21, 2014
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#16
In Acts 1:9-11, the angels announced that Christ will return the same way He departed, which is visibly and gloriously. Hebrews 9:28 says that Christ will appear a second time – it will undoubtedly be a literal appearance.
Okay, thanks for clarifying. Is there reason to think that there was not a visible second coming in 70 AD? There are written accounts from Roman history about the destruction of Jerusalem that mention what sounds like it could have been.

""In the sky appeared a vision of armies in conflict, of glittering armour. A sudden lightening flash from the clouds lit up the temple. The doors of the holy place abruptly opened, a superhuman voice was heard to declare that the gods were leaving it, and in the same instant came the rushing tumult of their departure." (Tacitus, First Century Roman Historian - Histories, v.13). Before Jerusalem's final demolition, Titus took a survey of the city and its fortifications; and, while contemplating their impregnable strength, could not help ascribing his success to the peculiar interposition of the Almighty Himself. "Had not God himself (exclaimed he) aided out operations, and driven the Jews from their fortresses, it would have been absolutely impossible to have taken them ; for what could men, and the force of engines, have done against such towers as these ?""
There are also answers from preterists concerning Acts 1:9-11. (The following are not my own thoughts, credit goes to the author at ecclesia.org)
"The word for "see" is often used not of sight, but of perception. For example, in John 14:9, Jesus says, "he that hath seen me hath seen the Father." Jesus also said, "every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life" (John 6:40). Now, if you use the same interpretation here as most do in Mat.24:30; Mark 13:26; Luke 21:27, Acts 1:9-10, and Rev.1:7, only those who saw Jesus with their literal eyes could be saved! We use the word "see" in the same manner, with a figurative intent, when we say, "I see!". As Paul wrote in Ephesians 1:18, "The eyes of your understanding being enlightened."In verses 23-26 of Matthew 24, Jesus seems to stress that his coming will not be a physical bodily coming. If someone says, "Here is Christ, or there," they were not to believe them. If someone said, "He is in the desert or he is in the secret chamber," they were not to believe them. Why? If His coming was to be physical and bodily, why would someone not be able to say, "He is over there?" They were not to believe that because His coming would not be physical and bodily and yet it would be plainly seen."

Even if you reject the explanation given by preterists (I can't really say I'm convinced one way or the other, so I leave that up to you entirely), how do you explain what Jesus said to his disciples? That some of them would not die before his return, and that their generation would not pass away before all the signs and Jesus' return were fulfilled?
 
Jun 4, 2014
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Christ will indeed return the same way He departed. Well, how did He depart?
 
Jul 21, 2014
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Christ will indeed return the same way He departed. Well, how did He depart?
This post and your other two don't help me any with the verses that say Jesus would be coming back soon. To convince me that they don't mean what they literally say, I need to know what else they could mean. Another verse saying something different just adds confusion if the fist bunch aren't clarified somehow that makes sense.

But to answer your question, Jesus was lifted into a cloud, and it also says that he will come with the clouds. But the man who told the Galileans that Jesus would come the way he departed, told them not to stare up at the sky looking for him. What does that tell you?
 
Jul 25, 2013
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#19
how do you explain what Jesus said to his disciples? That some of them would not die before his return, and that their generation would not pass away before all the signs and Jesus' return were fulfilled?


Matt 16:27....,and then he shall reward every man according to his works. 28
Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

It sounds to me Jesus is talking about the judgement upon His return and their punishment of the second death of eternal damnation.
 
Jun 4, 2014
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#20
This post and your other two don't help me any with the verses that say Jesus would be coming back soon. To convince me that they don't mean what they literally say, I need to know what else they could mean. Another verse saying something different just adds confusion if the fist bunch aren't clarified somehow that makes sense.

But to answer your question, Jesus was lifted into a cloud, and it also says that he will come with the clouds. But the man who told the Galileans that Jesus would come the way he departed, told them not to stare up at the sky looking for him. What does that tell you?
Jesus is coming soon. At the end of your day or life He will come. Don't look for Him over there or over here, but that He will appear the same way He departed the earth. Through death and the veil. Remember the kingdom is within.

Now as Paul stated, there will be a generation who will not sleep or experience death, but will be transformed. But for all, whether they go by death or transformation, it will be in the twinkling of an eye.

We've all experienced this "twinkling" in our births. It wasn't like any of us can was around 6000 years ago but as long as we knew, we have been here.