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Thread: Who gets the promises?: Jews Church? : "Replacement theology": Other thoughts

  1. #1
    1still_waters
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    Default Who gets the promises?: Jews Church? : "Replacement theology": Other thoughts

    (Please read all of it, before you simply give your opinion on the definition of replacement theology.)

    I've been trying to sort through this issue of who God is working through now, who gets God's promises, and just who is a "replacement theologian", or if that term is even legit.

    I want to ask a few questions.

    Who is God working through now?
    A. People who claim the OT, who claim Abraham as an ancestor, but who reject Jesus.
    B People who don't reject Jesus.

    Who gets the promises of God?
    A. People who claim the OT, who claim Abraham as an ancestor, but who reject Jesus.
    B People who don't reject Jesus.

    Who makes up the church?
    A. People who claim the OT, who claim Abraham as an ancestor, but who reject Jesus.
    B People who don't reject Jesus.

    I don't know anyone with orthodox doctrine who would say God is working through and revealing himself through rebellious people who are actively and ultimately rejecting Jesus.

    I don't know anyone with orthodox doctrine who would say God gives his promises to those who will ultimately reject Jesus.

    I don't know anyone with orthodox doctrine who says the church is composed of people who ultimately reject Jesus.

    So those who don't reject Jesus ultimately receive the promises of God.
    Those who don't reject Jesus are called the church.

    I also don't know anyone with orthodox doctrine who would say that physical decedents of Abraham who don't reject Jesus, won't receive God's promises.

    So I guess i'm trying to figure out why this label of "replacement theology" gets pinned on folks, seeing most folks believe the only ones who receive God's promises are those who trust in Jesus, and those who trust in Jesus are called the church.

    Is there a detail of "replacement theology" I'm missing.

    I believe God keeps his promises to the physical descendants of Abraham, but only to the ones who trust in Jesus, which means those are kept to those in the church, since the church is composed of those who trust Jesus.

    What am I missing on this one?

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    Default Re: Who gets the promises?: Jews Church? : "Replacement theology": Other thoughts

    B. B. B. You really aren't missing anything. People are just reading things into the Scripture that aren't there...or just tend to miss the verse where Paul says that not all who are called Israel are indeed Israel...People tend to somehow read over that one like it isn't there.
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    Default Re: Who gets the promises?: Jews Church? : "Replacement theology": Other thoughts

    Sorry, 1still_waters, what you say, is true, but, you are missing a lot. Please check my latest posts,today in, the letter to the Romans. you could still hold to the replacement theory and hold to you statements, Right? You can hold to salvation for all the "elect" of God and hold to the replacement of Israel by the Church. Right? It is a little more complicated then you think. Lets teach all the word of God. Love to all, Hoffco

  4. #4
    1still_waters
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    Default Re: Who gets the promises?: Jews Church? : "Replacement theology": Other thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoffco View Post
    Sorry, 1still_waters, what you say, is true, but, you are missing a lot. Please check my latest posts,today in, the letter to the Romans. you could still hold to the replacement theory and hold to you statements, Right? You can hold to salvation for all the "elect" of God and hold to the replacement of Israel by the Church. Right? It is a little more complicated then you think. Lets teach all the word of God. Love to all, Hoffco
    How about an executive summary?

    What exactly do replacement theologians do wrong? Can you sum it up in six or less sentences?

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    Default Re: Who gets the promises?: Jews Church? : "Replacement theology": Other thoughts

    The answers are B, B, and B. (Galatians 3:26-29). Sadly, "replacement theology" is often pinned on anyone who don’t subscribe to dispensationalism. Some people just love to pin derogatory labels on others when the errors of their doctrine are exposed.

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    "So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy" (Romans 9:16)

    Man foreslår, Gud råder



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    Default Re: Who gets the promises?: Jews Church? : "Replacement theology": Other thoughts

    I love the term "replacement theology" lol...but the irony is nothing was replaced...a branch was just grafted on to the original system because they original purpose wasn't doing what they were supposed to...but I rant.

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    Default Re: Who gets the promises?: Jews Church? : "Replacement theology": Other thoughts

    ?God made promises to Abraham and the Jews which have never been fulfilled, the new cov., the new Heavens and new earth; God would be a lair if He does not fulfill them. Obviously. God did not plan to fulfill all the old Test. promise without us to share them with Israel. They were never to be perfected without all the people of God, world wide. Love to all, Hoffco

  8. #8
    1still_waters
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    Default Re: Who gets the promises?: Jews Church? : "Replacement theology": Other thoughts

    Can anyone cite an orthodox teacher/theologian who clearly says genetic descendants of Abraham who trust in Jesus will not receive God's promises? If you can find one, I'd label them a replacement theologian, at least as of how i currently understand the term.
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  9. #9
    1still_waters
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    Default Re: Who gets the promises?: Jews Church? : "Replacement theology": Other thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoffco View Post
    ?God made promises to Abraham and the Jews which have never been fulfilled, the new cov., the new Heavens and new earth; God would be a lair if He does not fulfill them. Obviously. God did not plan to fulfill all the old Test. promise without us to share them with Israel. They were never to be perfected without all the people of God, world wide. Love to all, Hoffco
    Which theologian/teacher says that God won't keep those promises to Abraham/Jews who trust in Jesus? Can you give names and easy to access quotes?

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    Senior Member oldhermit's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who gets the promises?: Jews Church? : "Replacement theology": Other thoughts

    "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believes; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek." Rom 1:16

    "Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that does evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;"
    Rom. 2:9

    "But glory, honor, and peace, to every man that works good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:"
    Rom. 2:10
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    Default Re: Who gets the promises?: Jews Church? : "Replacement theology": Other thoughts

    What people who believe in replacement theology get wrong is the definition of those who reject Jesus. They say the definition of that is the word Jew. They also get them mixed up with people who accept the one true God and that there will be a Messiah with people who are atheist. There is a difference.

    Christ did change things, and we need to be precise about what Christ changed. Before Christ there was a dividing line between gentiles and Jews, and that line was belief in God. Now there are no Jews and gentiles and replacement theology fails to recognize this. Now the only difference in us is that God set certain gentiles apart for special treatment that we call Jews, now, until Christ came, and we are to respect that.

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    Default Re: Who gets the promises?: Jews Church? : "Replacement theology": Other thoughts

    NO, I can not , Because there is not one I know of. I certainly admit to the truthfulness of your statement; but ,I think, JesusChic1991 and I are suggesting you may be fudging a bit to get away with a serious heresy of replacement theo.. Are you covering up to your position that God, really is not working with the Jewish nation, Israel, as He promised He would in Eze, 36-38 etc etc. ? Lve Hoffco

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    Default Re: Who gets the promises?: Jews Church? : "Replacement theology": Other thoughts

    Galatians 3:28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus."

    Colossians 3:11 "a renewal in which there is no distinction between Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave and freeman, but Christ is all, and in all."

    Jesus is Lord of all people.
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    Senior Member notuptome's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who gets the promises?: Jews Church? : "Replacement theology": Other thoughts

    The promises made to Israel are still made to Israel. Israel has rejected her Messiah and does not receive the blessings of the promises. The Gentiles receive the blessings of the promises made to Israel because the Gentiles receive Christ as Messiah or Savior. The church has not replaced Israel but has inherited the blessings promised to Israel. Israel remains Gods elect among the nations but will be chastised severely through the tribulation before she sees Christ in the clouds and receives Him as her Messiah.

    Israel said let His blood be upon us and to this day it is upon them. Captivity and persecution have been the lot of Israel for centuries. One day they will turn to God and their Messiah Jesus. Until then the Gentiles enjoy the blessing of salvation and eternal life promised to the Jew first then to the rest of the world.

    Probably more than six sentences but that's the way it is. The church is not Israel and Israel is not forgotten by God.

    For the cause of Christ
    Roger

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    Default Re: Who gets the promises?: Jews Church? : "Replacement theology": Other thoughts

    Sorry, Redtent, but in the world today, there are Jews and there are Gentiles, Only in the universal CHURCH of JESUS Christ are the distinctions gone. In the Visible church, we see our obvious differences, black/white, m/f, etc. but, we see people with our hearts, not with our eyes. Still, we do not let a woman rule over the local church body, God forbids women to rule the home or church. Love Hoffco Gentiles are not Jews. Please, stop exulting Moses over Jesus.

  16. #16
    1still_waters
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    Default Re: Who gets the promises?: Jews Church? : "Replacement theology": Other thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by notuptome View Post
    The promises made to Israel are still made to Israel. Israel has rejected her Messiah and does not receive the blessings of the promises. The Gentiles receive the blessings of the promises made to Israel because the Gentiles receive Christ as Messiah or Savior. The church has not replaced Israel but has inherited the blessings promised to Israel. Israel remains Gods elect among the nations but will be chastised severely through the tribulation before she sees Christ in the clouds and receives Him as her Messiah.

    Israel said let His blood be upon us and to this day it is upon them. Captivity and persecution have been the lot of Israel for centuries. One day they will turn to God and their Messiah Jesus. Until then the Gentiles enjoy the blessing of salvation and eternal life promised to the Jew first then to the rest of the world.

    Probably more than six sentences but that's the way it is. The church is not Israel and Israel is not forgotten by God.

    For the cause of Christ
    Roger
    But..the only "Israelites" who receive the promises are those who trust in Jesus, right?

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    Default Re: Who gets the promises?: Jews Church? : "Replacement theology": Other thoughts

    To notuotome, you got it perfect.! I hold your position exactly. Love to all,Hoffco

  18. #18
    1still_waters
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    Default Re: Who gets the promises?: Jews Church? : "Replacement theology": Other thoughts

    Ok maybe these questions can help you clarify for me.

    Do all who trust in Jesus get the land forever?

    Does the land only go to Jews/Israelies forever who trust in Jesus, as the saved non-Jews get another hunk of land somewhere else?

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    Default Re: Who gets the promises?: Jews Church? : "Replacement theology": Other thoughts

    To 1stillwaters, YES, you are truthful, as far as you go. but what about God's working with the Jews of today, Israel is a nation because of God's sovereignty in this world, God's plans for the Jewish nation are not over. RIGHT? Love hoffco

  20. #20
    1still_waters
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    Default Re: Who gets the promises?: Jews Church? : "Replacement theology": Other thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoffco View Post
    To 1stillwaters, YES, you are truthful, as far as you go. but what about God's working with the Jews of today, Israel is a nation because of God's sovereignty in this world, God's plans for the Jewish nation are not over. RIGHT? Love hoffco
    Like I said in my original post.
    I also don't know anyone with orthodox doctrine who would say that physical decedents of Abraham who don't reject Jesus, won't receive God's promises.
    I believe God keeps his promises to the physical descendants of Abraham, but only to the ones who trust in Jesus, which means those are kept to those in the church, since the church is composed of those who trust Jesus.
    Which teachers are saying God won't accept Jews who want to trust in Jesus?
    You make it sound like people are saying God won't grant gospel salvation to Jews.
    Who is saying that?

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