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Mar 12, 2014
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#21
Titus 3:5 *Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Not by 'our' works of righteousness. Check? Check!
Which we HAVE DONE, Check? Check? Check!
But according to His mercy he saved us. (Mercy not getting what we deserve (punishment) due to not doing what we should have (disobedience). Check? Check!
By the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost...washing and renewing, both work of the Holy Spirit. Check? Checkmate!

Not by OUR works of righteousness. One cannot be saved by dong his OWN righteousness but can be saved by doing GOD'S righteousness. Some fail, or simply refuse, to make the distinction between one doing his OWN righteousness and doing GOD'S righteousness. The two are different as night and day.

Rom 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

Note how Paul makes a distinction between the Jews going about to establish THEIR OWN righteousness and submitting/obeying GOD'S righteousness.

No one here that I have seen has said a man can be saved by doing HIS OWN righteousness. But the bible does teach a man can be saved by doing/submitting to GOD'S righteousness.



Titus 3:5 is the new birth Jesus spoke of in Jn 3:5, and Paul said in Tts 3:5 that Christ saved us by the washing of regeneration/born of water/water baptism. So obedience in submitting to water baptism (God's righteousness) is CONTRASTED to works of our own righteousness we have done.
 
Mar 12, 2014
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#22
It's a given as he opposes God's grace at every turn....unless you define grace as an opportunity given by God to prove yourself righteous.

Those that reject obeying GOD'S righteousness are the ones rejecting God's grace. Acts 10:35 God accepts those that "worketh righteousness" so those that obey God's commands (verse 47,48) are the ones accepted with God.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#23
Not by OUR works of righteousness. One cannot be saved by dong his OWN righteousness but can be saved by doing GOD'S righteousness. Some fail, or simply refuse, to make the distinction between one doing his OWN righteousness and doing GOD'S righteousness. The two are different as night and day.

Rom 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

Note how Paul makes a distinction between the Jews going about to establish THEIR OWN righteousness and submitting/obeying GOD'S righteousness.

No one here that I have seen has said a man can be saved by doing HIS OWN righteousness. But the bible does teach a man can be saved by doing/submitting to GOD'S righteousness.



Titus 3:5 is the new birth Jesus spoke of in Jn 3:5, and Paul said in Tts 3:5 that Christ saved us by the washing of regeneration/born of water/water baptism. So obedience in submitting to water baptism (God's righteousness) is CONTRASTED to works of our own righteousness we have done.
How much of God's righteousness must YOU DO before you are saved?
 
Feb 21, 2012
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#24
Not by OUR works of righteousness. One cannot be saved by dong his OWN righteousness but can be saved by doing GOD'S righteousness. Some fail, or simply refuse, to make the distinction between one doing his OWN righteousness and doing GOD'S righteousness. The two are different as night and day.

Rom 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

Note how Paul makes a distinction between the Jews going about to establish THEIR OWN righteousness and submitting/obeying GOD'S righteousness.

No one here that I have seen has said a man can be saved by doing HIS OWN righteousness. But the bible does teach a man can be saved by doing/submitting to GOD'S righteousness.

Titus 3:5 is the new birth Jesus spoke of in Jn 3:5, and Paul said in Tts 3:5 that Christ saved us by the washing of regeneration/born of water/water baptism. So obedience in submitting to water baptism (God's righteousness) is CONTRASTED to works of our own righteousness we have done.
Correct not by OUR works of righteousness because all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags [Isaiah 64:6] - but we are not SAVED by DOING God's righteousness - we have the righteousness of God through our faith in Jesus Christ [Romans 3:22]. God made Jesus Christ to be sin for us, who knew no sin so that we might be made the righteousness of God in him (Jesus Christ). [2 Cor. 5:21] This is done by and through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit - not by OUR works of righteousness which we have done.

What is "doing/submitting to God's righteousness"? I don't care how much we do - 'There is none righteous, no, not one' - through our OWN works or any work of anyone besides through the work of Jesus Christ our Lord and through faith in him we are MADE righteous.


 
Mar 12, 2014
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#25
How much of God's righteousness must YOU DO before you are saved?
This is like asking "How disobedient/unrighteous can I be but still be saved?"

1 Jn 3:10 "whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God", How can "faith only" which is void of doing righteousness ever make one 'of God'?

One is to do all of God's righteousness.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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#26
Those that reject obeying GOD'S righteousness are the ones rejecting God's grace. Acts 10:35 God accepts those that "worketh righteousness" so those that obey God's commands (verse 47,48) are the ones accepted with God.
God imputes His righteousness through Christ.2 Corinthians 5:21 All of your righteousness is as a filthy rag before God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Mar 12, 2014
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#27
Correct not by OUR works of righteousness because all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags [Isaiah 64:6] - but we are not SAVED by DOING God's righteousness - we have the righteousness of God through our faith in Jesus Christ [Romans 3:22]. God made Jesus Christ to be sin for us, who knew no sin so that we might be made the righteousness of God in him (Jesus Christ). [2 Cor. 5:21] This is done by and through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit - not by OUR works of righteousness which we have done.

What is "doing/submitting to God's righteousness"? I don't care how much we do - 'There is none righteous, no, not one' - through our OWN works or any work of anyone besides through the work of Jesus Christ our Lord and through faith in him we are MADE righteous.


Psa 119:172 says all God's commandments are righteous.

So doing God's righteousness is obeying/submitting to God's commands.

One cannot be righteous/right doing/obedient to God without doing righteous/without being obedient

1 Jn 3:10 whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God

1 Jn 3:7 he that doeth righteousness is righteous

1 Jn 2:29 ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him

Rom 6:18 obedience unto righteousness

Rom 10:10 with the heart man believeth unto righteousness

Righteousness is something done, a work and without doing righteousness one cannot be born of God, cannot be of God. Obedience leads one to being righteousness, Rom 6:16. Rom 10:10, if one's belief is not unto righteousness/right doing/doing God's commands then it is a dead belief only.

Isa 64:6 is talking about those in iniquity, read Isa 64:5 that says God meets/helps those that work righteousness.

Heb 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh

Abel was righteous. Why? His works were righteous cf 1 Jn 3:12
 
Mar 12, 2014
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#28
God imputes His righteousness through Christ.2 Corinthians 5:21 All of your righteousness is as a filthy rag before God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Isa 64:6 taken out of context over and over, it speaks of those in in iniquity. Isa 64:5 says God meets/helps those that work righteousness. Acts 10:35 those that work righteousness are accepted with God.

Christ's righteousness is not transferred to the sinner, the sinner obeys Christ/works righteousness and then is placed in Christ where he is covered by Christ's perfect righteousness. No one outside of Christ is righteous and it takes obedience/doing righteousness to be in Christ.
 
F

Fishbait

Guest
#29
God is the one who saves, but the question is - who does He save and why?

Heb 5:9 God saves those that obey Him.
The Bible says that, if salvation were based on our own efforts, no one could be saved: “All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23). Psalm 143:2 adds, “No one living is righteous before you.” Romans 3:10 affirms, “There is no one righteous, not even one.”

Only when we accept Jesus Christ will we be saved by God.

We cannot save ourselves. Instead, we are saved when we believe in Jesus Christ. Ephesians 2:8–9 teaches, “It is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast.” We are saved by God’s grace, and grace, by definition, cannot be earned. We do not deserve salvation; we simply receive it by faith.


Read more: Who can be saved?

 
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2Thewaters

Guest
#30
Jesus gets the credit for us who obey by his power the law.

Who gets the credit for those who are lost for eternity due to disobedience?
 
2

2Thewaters

Guest
#31


who can be saved?
all who come to Jesus and follow him the word of God by faith in the power of his blood

in christ I can do all things, even stop sinning.

Go and sin no more

will the ones who keep right on sinning be saved?
never.
 
2

2Thewaters

Guest
#32
By the power of the blood of Jesus you can stop sinning

this is the good news of salvation FROM SINNING
 
Mar 12, 2014
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#33
The Bible says that, if salvation were based on our own efforts, no one could be saved: “All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23). Psalm 143:2 adds, “No one living is righteous before you.” Romans 3:10 affirms, “There is no one righteous, not even one.”


Heb 11:4 Abel was righteous.

John said one is not of God, not born of God if one does not do righteousness. So one must do GOD's righteousness to be saved and not his own righteousness.

Righteousness simply means right doing, unrighteousness is wrong doing. How many who live in unrighteousness/wrong doing will be saved? None. So to be righteous one must DO righteousness as 1 Jn 3:7.

Fishbait said:
We cannot save ourselves.
Peter told his hearers in Acts 2 to save yourselves
Paul told Timothy to 'save thyself'
Paul said to work out your own salvation

So how does one save himself, work out his own salvation? By doing God's righteousness.

Fishbait said:
Instead, we are saved when we believe in Jesus Christ. Ephesians 2:8–9 teaches, “It is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast.” We are saved by God’s grace, and grace, by definition, cannot be earned. We do not deserve salvation; we simply receive it by faith.


Read more: Who can be saved?
An obedient belief is doing righteousness.

Rom 10:10 Paul said with the heart one......... believes UNTO righteousness.
Rom 6:16 Paul said ....................................obedience UNTO righteousness

So belief is obedience, an obedient work that leads one to being righteous.


God's grace cannot be earned but God's grace is conditional, it is conditional upon man doing righteousness.

Again, John said he that does NOT do righteousness is NOT of God, NOT born of God.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#34
This is like asking "How disobedient/unrighteous can I be but still be saved?"

1 Jn 3:10 "whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God", How can "faith only" which is void of doing righteousness ever make one 'of God'?

One is to do all of God's righteousness.
so you are not saved until you die?...This goes against scripture which puts salvation in the past as well...
Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
 
Mar 12, 2014
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#35
so you are not saved until you die?...This goes against scripture which puts salvation in the past as well...
Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
One does not gain the promise of salvation until he first works God's righteousness.

Tts 3:5 does not prove your position. Paul is contrasting one's own works of righteousness to doing the righteousness of God when one obeys God in water baptism/washing of regeneration.


1) Psa 119:172 says all of God's commandments are righteousness

2) John said ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him. 1 Jn 2:29

3) to be born of God one must be born again per Jn 3:5. Born again = water baptism

4) God has commanded water baptism. So obediently submitting to water baptism is doing God's righteousness

5) so as John said he that doeth righteousness (submit to God's command to be water baptized) is born of God.
 
D

Delivery

Guest
#36
God is the one who saves, but the question is - who does He save and why?

Heb 5:9 God saves those that obey Him.
Yes. you have to obey Him to be saved. but what do you have to obey?

6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

The only commandment we have to obey in order to be saved is to believe in Jesus.

2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

This is the only commandment we need to obey in order to be saved. Once we obey God's commandment to believe in His Son Jesus Christ, then Jesus washes away our sins and gives us His free gift of everlasting life. We are saved and cleansed and washed white as snow from all of our sins forever. Salvation is forever. The act of confessing with your mouth, to others, your Faith and belief in Jesus is the proof of your belief. You prove your belief by talking about it.

6:45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

So, the only one who can get credit for our Salvation is Jesus, and, of course, God, the Father who lovingly gave His only begotten Son to die for us and be punished for our sins, so we wouldn't have to be.

We can't boast or take any credit to ourselves, which we would be able to do if we had to work to stay saved. But we can't, as the apostle Paul tells us:

2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#38
One does not gain the promise of salvation until he first works God's righteousness.

Tts 3:5 does not prove your position. Paul is contrasting one's own works of righteousness to doing the righteousness of God when one obeys God in water baptism/washing of regeneration.


1) Psa 119:172 says all of God's commandments are righteousness

2) John said ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him. 1 Jn 2:29

3) to be born of God one must be born again per Jn 3:5. Born again = water baptism

4) God has commanded water baptism. So obediently submitting to water baptism is doing God's righteousness

5) so as John said he that doeth righteousness (submit to God's command to be water baptized) is born of God.
Where in Scripture does it say, "First work God's righteousness and you will be saved''?
Your 'gospel' is an affront to the Christian Gospel and you are in danger friend...

Galatians 1:6-9 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.


Galatians 3:10-13 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
 
Feb 21, 2012
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#39
Psa 119:172 says all God's commandments are righteous.

So doing God's righteousness is obeying/submitting to God's commands.

One cannot be righteous/right doing/obedient to God without doing righteous/without being obedient
1 Jn 3:10 whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God

1 Jn 3:7 he that doeth righteousness is righteous.
But doing 'good' works is not what gives us our righteousness. Faith in Christ is what GIVES, RECKONS, IMPUTES righteousness unto us. Once that righteousness has been imputed unto us - we WANT to do what is good and what is right.
1 Jn 2:29 ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him

Rom 6:18 obedience unto righteousness

Rom 10:10 with the heart man believeth unto righteousness

Righteousness is something done, a work and without doing righteousness one cannot be born of God, cannot be of God. Obedience leads one to being righteousness, Rom 6:16. Rom 10:10, if one's belief is not unto righteousness/right doing/doing God's commands then it is a dead belief only.
When one is born of God - righteousness is imputed unto him - God sees his child as righteous. Obedience does not make us righteous but God's righteousness in us produces fruit. 'with the heart man believeth unto righteousness'
Isa 64:6 is talking about those in iniquity, read Isa 64:5 that says God meets/helps those that work righteousness.
Isaiah 64:4-6 For since the beginning of the world men have not heard, nor perceived by the ear, neither hath the eye seen, O God, beside thee, what he hath prepared for him that waiteth for him. Thou meetest him that rejoiceth and worketh righteousness, those that remember thee in thy ways: behold, thou art wroth; for we have sinned [remember: for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God]: In those is continuance, and we shall be saved. But we are all as an unclean thing and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags . . . . He is talking to those that meet him and rejoice and work righteousness by remembering God in our ways.
Heb 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh

Abel was righteous. Why? His works were righteous cf 1 Jn 3:12
Abel, Moses, Noah, Abraham, Sara, etc. were righteous not because of what they did but because they believed God.
Their believe in God and his promises made them righteous and being made righteous and believing in God's promises brought about their obedience. Obedience doesn't come first - faith comes first and gives us salvation - salvation brings about obedience.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
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#40
Jesus => He Shall Save His People From Their Sins

Thou shalt call His name Jesus,
for He shall save His people from their sins.

The Lord Jesus is the Savior.
Those who trust Him are the savees, the saved.

Now anyone out there who has attempted to demote Him from Savior to "chance-giver," is advised to repent & to trust Him as his only & sufficient Savior.

I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.