Seeing God, face to face.

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Sec

Banned
Aug 1, 2014
309
3
0
#1
Most readers of the Bible, have stumbled across the following verses, and they stick in their memory:
John 1:18. No man has seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has declared him.
1John 4:12. No man has seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwells in us, and his love is perfected in us.
and 3 John 1:11. Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that does good is of God: but he that does evil has not seen God.

John appears to change his mind as time goes on, He goes from saying no man has seen God to saying that no man who does evil has seen God, implying that all of the good people have seen God, or will see God. that point is unclear, because translators continually took verses written in the future tense, and translated them into the past tense, and this is what has happened here in 3 John 1:11.

Now about seeing God face to face:
Genesis 32:30. And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
Exodus 33:11. And the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaks unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.

Note here that Joshua would have seen Moses talking face to face with God. this would have been a first experience for Joshua that would prepare him to take Moses place.

Numbers 14: 14. And they will tell it to the inhabitants of this land: for they have heard that you Lord are among this people, that you Lord are seen face to face, and that your cloud stands over them, and that you go before them, by day time in a pillar of a cloud, and in a pillar of fire by night.
Deuteronomy 5:4. The Lord talked with you face to face in the mount out of the midst of the fire,
Deuteronomy 34: 10. And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face,
Judges 6:22. And when Gideon perceived that he was an angel of the Lord, Gideon said, Alas, O Lord God! for because I have seen an angel of the Lord face to face.
Judges 13:22. And Manoah said unto his wife, We shall surely die, because we have seen God.
Ezekiel 20:35. And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face.
1 Corinthians 13: 12. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

Please Note, that this is a promise that all who follow Jesus will see God face to face! Since God is working with each individual soul on a one on one basis, Everyone is not going to see Him at the same time, many Christians pick up that false theology because of the dominant teaching of the Rapture, but the scripture says all will see Him, but "at the same time" is not specified, it is a false assumption by those who attempt to short circuit God's work and scare people into the fold. All will come, when God has prepared them, and not before, they will not make that decision until God has brought them to that crossroad. All the prophets of God saw God face to face, were filled with the Holy Spirit, and were in contact with him 24 hours a day, through the Holy Spirit. No one who has not been through the process, can ever understand, and most, because it has not happened to them, will accept, that almost every day, God chooses someone to reveal Himself to, because God has Justified them to the point where God can trust them, and 99% of them will not mention it, because the non-believers can be rough on anyone who claims to have had a spiritual experience that they have not yet arrived at. Most Christians, believe that this refers to what happens after death, not realizing that it doesn't normally happen that way, it happens shortly before death, which is why Jacob wondered why he was still alive and Manoah thought they would die. I remember an old man who came to visit my grandmother, he was in his 90s and she in her 80s. Things were said, that i remembered after seeing God, that caused me to know that he was at that time dealing with seeing God face to face. My mom is 92, My dad is almost 92, and I haven't seen any signs that they have had that experience yet, but I am sure they will. I was allowed to see God at the age of 52, because God had work for me to do, and this is part of it.

<><===><>
Gary Sechler
With knowledge on loan from God
 
S

Sophie88

Guest
#2
Hi, you have to remember that a lot of the bible has been corrupted so there is text missing from many of the books and lots of paraphrasing even in the KJV, the bible isn't actually complete, there is supposedly more books from it in the New Testament that are missing. This is a secret I have recently discovered. There are YouTube clips on the missing books, please make your own decision on this topic.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#3
No offence, but I think you got your knowledge from someone besides God and to say that YOU have seen God at the age of 52 contradicts scripture......
 

Sec

Banned
Aug 1, 2014
309
3
0
#4
No offence, but I think you got your knowledge from someone besides God and to say that YOU have seen God at the age of 52 contradicts scripture......
You need to read my first post, it definitely proves you wrong.

<><===><>
Gary Sechler
With knowledge on loan from God
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
3,391
134
63
#5
No offence, but I think you got your knowledge from someone besides God and to say that YOU have seen God at the age of 52 contradicts scripture.....


I was quickened almost 30 years ago, I have seen the Father, and yes the Holy Ghost can manifest in the flesh. But He is the Lamb whom was slain [in the sense He laid down his Eternalness] from the foundation of the world that we might have life and life more abundantly. Do you know Him?
 

JesusLives

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2013
14,551
2,171
113
#6
This is one of my hearts desires to see God face to face. I have talked to Him many times about this invisible thing and how at times I feel so alone and wishing it was a real out loud verbal conversation. So I look forward when this will happen on a day to day basis and is one reason to look forward to heaven and living with God forever.
 
Jun 4, 2014
1,849
9
0
#7
I see Him everyday in the lives of those around me.
 
N

nw2u

Guest
#8
[SUP]This is from Luke Chapter 18 in the King James version.

18[/SUP] And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

[SUP]19[/SUP] And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.

I think the passage:

3 John 1:11. Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that does good is of God: but he that does evil has not seen God.

is concerning the same thing as above. If no man is good. No man does good, except Jesus. If he is fully God and fully man, he would be the only one who has seen God. I think this is reasonable. What do you think?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,530
13,098
113
#9
the way i "see" it --


God spoke with Moses 'as face to face' -- but Moses had to be hidden in the rock and then could only see God's coat-tails as He passed by in His glory. he could not see God and live.

no man has seen the face of God at any time. that is still true.
but Christ came as God enfleshed, and said that anyone who saw Him has seen the Father - so how is that reconciled? did we break the scripture?

this is not John the apostle progressively growing in spiritual maturity we're reading in his letters, and Sec, you have not seen the face of God either. bear with me.
Jesus was seen by many, but only a few saw Him transfigured. even at the transfiguration, they did not see Him in all His glory. that glory is the difference - Moses saw God, even all the Israelites did in fire and smoke. but Moses could not behold God in His glory and live, nor can anyone. not me, not Sec, not John, not even Saul.
Saul was blinded by the glory of Christ - not even Christ fully glorified, i believe - and the Father is greater than the Son.

when we say we "see" God, it can mean many things.
consider this:
you can accurately say you "saw" me on the forum today, but you can't describe my physical appearance.
if i send you a picture, you can say you "saw" me too, and mean it differently - but even then you haven't actually seen me, in another sense.
if we meet in person, you can rightly say you "saw" me - but truly, you may not actually "see" me in an even deeper sense - you may not see my heart, or my mind, and philosophically it's arguable - from scripture, even - that it's not possible for you to "truly see" anyone's heart or mind.

physically, too, sight is the collection, by our eyeballs, of photons that are reflected off objects, so all anyone has ever "seen" is light (!!) -- i think most all of us have seen the evidence of God - the refraction of light by His presence and movement, just like photons bouncing off my face into your eyeballs - because as Paul says, the invisible attributes of God are clearly seen in His creation.

there is not contradiction or abrogation in the scriptures.
we don't all mystically progress to the point of fully beholding Him in His glory in our lifetimes.
i have no doubt that in some way, you have "seen" God - but this is not the "seeing" that is referred to, "
no man has seen God at any time"
some are given visions, some are given faith, some are given understanding and knowledge, and all with eyes to see, see Christ and by seeing Him, see the Father, but none but the Son sees the Father.
there is misunderstanding of the meaning of the text.
we are all being renewed and made new by the Spirit of God, and on one day we will all be like Him, and we will behold Him truly.

hey AMEN when His purpose is complete we shall see His face, and there will be no need of a light to see, because He Himself will be our light. there is no temple in that city, because we will no longer be separated, but fully see even as we are fully seen!
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
41,243
16,252
113
69
Tennessee
#10
This is one of my hearts desires to see God face to face. I have talked to Him many times about this invisible thing and how at times I feel so alone and wishing it was a real out loud verbal conversation. So I look forward when this will happen on a day to day basis and is one reason to look forward to heaven and living with God forever.
This is precious. I feel exactly the same way.
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
3,391
134
63
#11
This is one of my hearts desires to see God face to face. I have talked to Him many times about this invisible thing and how at times I feel so alone and wishing it was a real out loud verbal conversation. So I look forward when this will happen on a day to day basis and is one reason to look forward to heaven and living with God forever.
Is not it written that in the beginning was not heaven and the earth created, and the Prophet said that heaven and earth shall pass away.

Not to mock you or anything but why call Him who was slain from the foundation of the world an 'invisible thing'? Especially if you are talking to the eternal God, the Holy Spirit about His only begotten, the Holy Ghost.
 

Sec

Banned
Aug 1, 2014
309
3
0
#12
Is not it written that in the beginning was not heaven and the earth created, and the Prophet said that heaven and earth shall pass away.

Not to mock you or anything but why call Him who was slain from the foundation of the world an 'invisible thing'? Especially if you are talking to the eternal God, the Holy Spirit about His only begotten, the Holy Ghost.
The only thing invisible about God is the Holy Spirit. We see and deal with the angels of God everyday, in almost every way.

<><===><>
Gary Sechler
With knowledge on loan from God
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
3,391
134
63
#13
the way i "see" it --


God spoke with Moses 'as face to face' -- but Moses had to be hidden in the rock and then could only see God's coat-tails as He passed by in His glory. he could not see God and live.

If not mistaken isn't it written his back parts.

For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; John 5:26

Now would that be the Lamb who was slain from the foundation of the world?


no man has seen the face of God at any time. that is still true.

John 8:17-18
17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.

but Christ came as God enfleshed, and said that anyone who saw Him has seen the Father - so how is that reconciled? did we break the scripture?
You sure the Creator, the only wise and eternal God spoke to Moses face to face?

If God is a Spirit, then how does a Spirit speak, but I do recall something about in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. So the Spirit and the Word become one, dear LORD this is complicated.

And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed. Exodus 3:2


And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I. Exodus 3:4

And the angel of God spake unto me in a dream, saying, Jacob: And I said, Here am I. Gen 31:11

"And I said", would that the be the LORD since the LORD is the Word, or the angel of God who said I said?
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
3,391
134
63
#14
The only thing invisible about God is the Holy Spirit. We see and deal with the angels of God everyday, in almost every way.

<><===><>
Gary Sechler
With knowledge on loan from God
You might see angels every day, I can't say that.

So you will probably disagree too if I say Adam married a man too right?
 
Last edited:

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
9,142
612
113
69
Alabama
#15
Most readers of the Bible, have stumbled across the following verses, and they stick in their memory:
John 1:18. No man has seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has declared him.
1John 4:12. No man has seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwells in us, and his love is perfected in us.
and 3 John 1:11. Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that does good is of God: but he that does evil has not seen God.

John appears to change his mind as time goes on, He goes from saying no man has seen God to saying that no man who does evil has seen God, implying that all of the good people have seen God, or will see God. that point is unclear, because translators continually took verses written in the future tense, and translated them into the past tense, and this is what has happened here in 3 John 1:11.

Now about seeing God face to face:
Genesis 32:30. And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
Exodus 33:11. And the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaks unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.

Note here that Joshua would have seen Moses talking face to face with God. this would have been a first experience for Joshua that would prepare him to take Moses place.

Numbers 14: 14. And they will tell it to the inhabitants of this land: for they have heard that you Lord are among this people, that you Lord are seen face to face, and that your cloud stands over them, and that you go before them, by day time in a pillar of a cloud, and in a pillar of fire by night.
Deuteronomy 5:4. The Lord talked with you face to face in the mount out of the midst of the fire,
Deuteronomy 34: 10. And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face,
Judges 6:22. And when Gideon perceived that he was an angel of the Lord, Gideon said, Alas, O Lord God! for because I have seen an angel of the Lord face to face.
Judges 13:22. And Manoah said unto his wife, We shall surely die, because we have seen God.
Ezekiel 20:35. And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face.
1 Corinthians 13: 12. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

Please Note, that this is a promise that all who follow Jesus will see God face to face! Since God is working with each individual soul on a one on one basis, Everyone is not going to see Him at the same time, many Christians pick up that false theology because of the dominant teaching of the Rapture, but the scripture says all will see Him, but "at the same time" is not specified, it is a false assumption by those who attempt to short circuit God's work and scare people into the fold. All will come, when God has prepared them, and not before, they will not make that decision until God has brought them to that crossroad. All the prophets of God saw God face to face, were filled with the Holy Spirit, and were in contact with him 24 hours a day, through the Holy Spirit. No one who has not been through the process, can ever understand, and most, because it has not happened to them, will accept, that almost every day, God chooses someone to reveal Himself to, because God has Justified them to the point where God can trust them, and 99% of them will not mention it, because the non-believers can be rough on anyone who claims to have had a spiritual experience that they have not yet arrived at. Most Christians, believe that this refers to what happens after death, not realizing that it doesn't normally happen that way, it happens shortly before death, which is why Jacob wondered why he was still alive and Manoah thought they would die. I remember an old man who came to visit my grandmother, he was in his 90s and she in her 80s. Things were said, that i remembered after seeing God, that caused me to know that he was at that time dealing with seeing God face to face. My mom is 92, My dad is almost 92, and I haven't seen any signs that they have had that experience yet, but I am sure they will. I was allowed to see God at the age of 52, because God had work for me to do, and this is part of it.

<><===><>
Gary Sechler
With knowledge on loan from God
The Holy Spirit, not John is the author of the gospel of John and he has not changed his mind about anything he has written. You simply do not understand what was written; And If you are claiming to have seen God face to face, you are a liar!
 

Sec

Banned
Aug 1, 2014
309
3
0
#16
old hermit - You wrote,"And If you are claiming to have seen God face to face, you are a liar"

I started this to tell you that since you are 60, you are not too far off from having God prove to you, you're wrong, but as I started writing, God said "no," you sir will not see God face to face before you die.

<><===><>
Gary Sechler
With knowledge on loan from God
 
A

Anonimous

Guest
#17
Hi, you have to remember that a lot of the bible has been corrupted so there is text missing from many of the books and lots of paraphrasing even in the KJV, the bible isn't actually complete, there is supposedly more books from it in the New Testament that are missing. This is a secret I have recently discovered. There are YouTube clips on the missing books, please make your own decision on this topic.
Phew... for a second I was in doubt...but since it's on youtube...it must be true...along with batboy and pigman...
 
K

Kerry

Guest
#18
Phew... for a second I was in doubt...but since it's on youtube...it must be true...along with batboy and pigman...
if it's on youtube and verified by Facebook and even on twitter. Then it's the truth, no matter what. I heard they were going to merge and call it "youtwitface". I can hardly wait.
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
9,142
612
113
69
Alabama
#19
old hermit - You wrote,"And If you are claiming to have seen God face to face, you are a liar"

I started this to tell you that since you are 60, you are not too far off from having God prove to you, you're wrong, but as I started writing, God said "no," you sir will not see God face to face before you die.

<><===><>
Gary Sechler
With knowledge on loan from God
You are not fooling anyone. You are just another crack pot with a self-proclaimed hidden revelation. We see people like you on this site all the time, each with a different "revelation," none of which agree with scripture.
 
E

ELECT

Guest
#20
Most readers of the Bible, have stumbled across the following verses, and they stick in their memory:
John 1:18. No man has seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has declared him.
1John 4:12. No man has seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwells in us, and his love is perfected in us.
and 3 John 1:11. Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that does good is of God: but he that does evil has not seen God.

John appears to change his mind as time goes on, He goes from saying no man has seen God to saying that no man who does evil has seen God, implying that all of the good people have seen God, or will see God. that point is unclear, because translators continually took verses written in the future tense, and translated them into the past tense, and this is what has happened here in 3 John 1:11.

Now about seeing God face to face:
Genesis 32:30. And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
Exodus 33:11. And the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaks unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.

Note here that Joshua would have seen Moses talking face to face with God. this would have been a first experience for Joshua that would prepare him to take Moses place.

Numbers 14: 14. And they will tell it to the inhabitants of this land: for they have heard that you Lord are among this people, that you Lord are seen face to face, and that your cloud stands over them, and that you go before them, by day time in a pillar of a cloud, and in a pillar of fire by night.
Deuteronomy 5:4. The Lord talked with you face to face in the mount out of the midst of the fire,
Deuteronomy 34: 10. And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face,
Judges 6:22. And when Gideon perceived that he was an angel of the Lord, Gideon said, Alas, O Lord God! for because I have seen an angel of the Lord face to face.
Judges 13:22. And Manoah said unto his wife, We shall surely die, because we have seen God.
Ezekiel 20:35. And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face.
1 Corinthians 13: 12. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

Please Note, that this is a promise that all who follow Jesus will see God face to face! Since God is working with each individual soul on a one on one basis, Everyone is not going to see Him at the same time, many Christians pick up that false theology because of the dominant teaching of the Rapture, but the scripture says all will see Him, but "at the same time" is not specified, it is a false assumption by those who attempt to short circuit God's work and scare people into the fold. All will come, when God has prepared them, and not before, they will not make that decision until God has brought them to that crossroad. All the prophets of God saw God face to face, were filled with the Holy Spirit, and were in contact with him 24 hours a day, through the Holy Spirit. No one who has not been through the process, can ever understand, and most, because it has not happened to them, will accept, that almost every day, God chooses someone to reveal Himself to, because God has Justified them to the point where God can trust them, and 99% of them will not mention it, because the non-believers can be rough on anyone who claims to have had a spiritual experience that they have not yet arrived at. Most Christians, believe that this refers to what happens after death, not realizing that it doesn't normally happen that way, it happens shortly before death, which is why Jacob wondered why he was still alive and Manoah thought they would die. I remember an old man who came to visit my grandmother, he was in his 90s and she in her 80s. Things were said, that i remembered after seeing God, that caused me to know that he was at that time dealing with seeing God face to face. My mom is 92, My dad is almost 92, and I haven't seen any signs that they have had that experience yet, but I am sure they will. I was allowed to see God at the age of 52, because God had work for me to do, and this is part of it.

<><===><>
Gary Sechler
With knowledge on loan from God

Are you greater than Moses ? Did Moses see God face ?