Jesus turned water into unfermented wine and not fermented wine.

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posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#201
Jul 31, 2013
36,646
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#201
here's one of a million (estimated) recipes for grape wine made with no yeast (no leaven)

step 1: wash the grapes

(that means that no, any yeast on the grapeskins is not used to ferment the sugars)

http://planforpandemic.com/phpBBToGo/thread.php?topic_id=3969

just so we know it exists. fruit and sugar is all anyone needs to make wine.
 
U

Ukorin

Guest
#202
#202
Jason0047 said:
No, Jesus supped of the wine at the last supper. So either he drank fermented alcoholic wine or he drank unfermented wine (grape juice or the new wine that comes out of the cluster of the grape).

1 Corinthians 11:25
"After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me."

Jesus is a King! And Proverbs 31 says wine is not for Kings. Jesus would not ignore his own sage advise or wisdom within His Word. Nor would he push a drug upon people at a wedding so as to get them drunk either.
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Was Jesus King before ascending to the Throne?
While on earth, did He not lay His crown aside?

Even in saying that Jesus is and ever was King, does Proverbs 31 really define this context for you?

I think you are over-reaching.
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#203
Jul 22, 2014
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#203
secularhermit said:
Ouch!

Is it me brother, who ignored it?

He wouldn´t invite you to a FAST feast, yet no yeast is wanted.
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Matthew 13:33
"The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened."

What this means is that blindness has happened in part to Israel until the fulness of the Gentiles comes in (Romans 11:25). For the gospel of the kingdom shall be preached unto all the world, then the end shall come (Matthew 24:14). For Jesus who knew no sin was made to be sin for us (2 Corinthians 5:21). This will be a reality that will be realized to all who accept the gospel until the fulness of the Gentiles comes in (or when the End comes).
 
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T

The_highwayman

Guest
#204
#204
Jason0047 said:
Another user had already shown an old dictionary screen capture of the definition of this word that proved my case. Go to Dictionary.com and look up the third definition.
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Go to a Hebrew and Greek lexicon site, like Blue letter Bible and see what wine is defined as...
 
Agricola

Agricola

Senior Member
#206
Dec 10, 2012
2,638
88
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#206
I am starting to suspect this is another one of those annoying "issues" of the King James Only Cult, that the King James is the only correct version.
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#207
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
#207
Ukorin said:
Was Jesus King before ascending to the Throne?
While on earth, did He not lay His crown aside?

Even in saying that Jesus is and ever was King, does Proverbs 31 really define this context for you?

I think you are over-reaching.
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What? Jesus is God Almighty in the flesh. He was always king. In fact, that was the one of the major points of the triumphal entry. It was also why he was being called the King of the Jews.

Micah 5:2
"But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting."

John 18:36
"Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence."
 
secularhermit

secularhermit

Banned
#208
May 3, 2013
8,719
75
0
#208
Jason0047 said:
Matthew 13:33
"The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened."

What this means is that blindness has happened in part to Israel until the fulness of the Gentiles comes in (Romans 11:25). For the gospel of the kingdom shall be preached unto all the world, then the end shall come (Matthew 24:14). For Jesus who knew no sin was made to be sin for us (2 Corinthians 5:21). This will be a reality that will be realized to all who accept the gospel until the fulness of the Gentiles comes in (or when the End comes).
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I like to compare these both:

1) Joh 2:2 Jesus also was invited to the wedding with his disciples.

2) Mat 22:9 Go therefore to the main roads and invite to the wedding feast as many as you find.'

Those were like these:

Mat 22:5 But they paid no attention and went off, one to his farm, another to his business,
Mat 22:6 while the rest seized his servants, treated them shamefully, and killed them.

And:

Luk 14:18 But they all alike began to make excuses. The first said to him, 'I have bought a field, and I must go out and see it. Please have me excused.'
Luk 14:19 And another said, 'I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to examine them. Please have me excused.'
Luk 14:20 And another said, 'I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.'


For:

"Luk 14:8 "When you are invited by someone to a wedding feast, do not sit down in a place of honor, lest someone more distinguished than you be invited by him,
Luk 14:9 and he who invited you both will come and say to you, 'Give your place to this person,' and then you will begin with shame to take the lowest place."
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#209
Jul 22, 2014
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#209
Agricola said:
I am starting to suspect this is another one of those annoying "issues" of the King James Only Cult, that the King James is the only correct version.
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That is a totally separate issue or an off topic discussion. I have run into people who are not KJV-only who believe the same as me on this issue. So no. You would be wrong. But if you want to discuss it, start another thread, my friend.
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#210
Jul 22, 2014
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#210
secularhermit said:
I like to compare these both:

1) Joh 2:2 Jesus also was invited to the wedding with his disciples.

2) Mat 22:9 Go therefore to the main roads and invite to the wedding feast as many as you find.'

Those were like these:

Mat 22:5 But they paid no attention and went off, one to his farm, another to his business,
Mat 22:6 while the rest seized his servants, treated them shamefully, and killed them.

And:

Luk 14:18 But they all alike began to make excuses. The first said to him, 'I have bought a field, and I must go out and see it. Please have me excused.'
Luk 14:19 And another said, 'I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to examine them. Please have me excused.'
Luk 14:20 And another said, 'I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.'


For:

"Luk 14:8 "When you are invited by someone to a wedding feast, do not sit down in a place of honor, lest someone more distinguished than you be invited by him,
Luk 14:9 and he who invited you both will come and say to you, 'Give your place to this person,' and then you will begin with shame to take the lowest place."
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That really does not match up with what is said in the parable.
 
T

The_highwayman

Guest
#213
#213
Jason0047 said:
Matthew 13:33
"The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened."

What this means is that blindness has happened in part to Israel until the fulness of the Gentiles comes in (Romans 11:25). For the gospel of the kingdom shall be preached unto all the world, then the end shall come (Matthew 24:14). For Jesus who knew no sin was made to be sin for us (2 Corinthians 5:21). This will be a reality that will be realized to all who accept the gospel until the fulness of the Gentiles comes in (or when the End comes).
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Leaven represents SIN and False Teaching whenever it is found in the Bible.
[See 1 Cor 5.1-8]

This makes your interpretation completely wrong. The woman is the Church who allowed false teaching and Sin to enter into the Body and never corrected it.

You will dispute this meaning and its fine. I would suggest you read mark 4 and key in on Vs 13 in Mark 4 and it will open the eyes of your understanding that they may be lighted.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#214
Jul 31, 2013
36,646
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113
#214
Esanta said:
I'd actually be inclined to think it's vice versa, that eating meat was practised by the apostles to avoid offending anyone. It seems, from most accounts, meat wouldn't have been their preferred diet at all.
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maybe some of both -- Paul said he would rather not eat any meat at all than offend anyone, and he also said to reach the Greeks he became a Greek, etc.
 
Stephen63

Stephen63

Banned
#216
Aug 15, 2009
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#216
kennethcadwell said:
Proverbs 23 is talking about doing things in the correct manner.

Notice it says at the last. This is meaning that if you do not drink it for the right purpose. You will get entrance with it and it will control you to the point that you get intoxicated by it.
Therefore seeing things, and speaking vial things.

We as Christians must learn to stop focusing just on the negatives of things, and start talking to people how stuff should correctly be used.

If I drink a glass of alcoholic wine a day, I am not sinning.

If I am drinking two bottles a day, or 6 to 12 bears a day and getting drunk then I am in sin.
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How do you drink 'bears'? Put them in a 'bear sized' blender? If I drank a bear I'd be going to the bathroom all night.:rolleyes::p
 
J

JackH

Banned
#218
Jun 5, 2014
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#218

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mpaper345

Banned
#219
Feb 9, 2010
2,486
39
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#219
In the Bible wine can be unfermented or fermented grape juice,the Bible calls them both wine.

I do not believe Jesus made the water in to fermented wine for God said in the Old Testament do not look upon the wine when it turns red in the cup which means do not drink the grape juice when it ferments which it was called wine before it fermented.

God said wine is a mocker and strong drink is raging and whoever is deceived is not wise.

Also to people with the belief that God allows for a little alcohol as long as you do not get drunk is not logical.

For God allowing us to drink a little alcohol but do not get drunk would mean God is allowing a temptation in our life which the Bible says God does not tempt any person.

God did not say you can kiss a woman that is not your wife but do not fornicate or you can steal a piece of bubblegum but do not steal a car.

So for God to allow a little alcohol but do not get drunk is not logical for a little alcohol is a temptation and could lead to more alcohol until the person is drunk.
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#220
Jul 22, 2014
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#220
posthuman said:
and sure enough the context of John 2 is a wedding feast in which guests were drinking intoxicating beverages. (i.e. fermented wine)

:
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Saying it doesn't make it so. Show me the context.
 
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