Righteousness Mat 5:20

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Nov 23, 2013
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#1
What does Jesus mean here?

Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
 
Jun 4, 2014
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#2
The righteousness of them were only extended to those who thought like them. In other words a trinity believer today recognizes and accepts a fellow trinitarian as righteous. But of those who don't believe in a trinity? It means that the kingdom of heaven can only be opened to us by not doing the work of the flesh to achieve rightful standing with God, but by believing that He justifies even those we may consider ungodly.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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#3
Imputed righteousness, faith accounted for righteousness (Romans 4:5-6) exceeds the self righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees. Matthew 23:14 - Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you devour widows' houses, and for a pretense make long prayers. Therefore you will receive greater condemnation.
 
Mar 12, 2014
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#4
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Christ explains the importance in keeping His commandments (doing righteousness). One that would be disobedient in keeping the least of commandments would be disobedient in keeping the greater commandments. Keeping the least commandments is just as important as keeping greater commandments. Pharisees that did not keep the law of Moses would not likely not keep the law of Christ either. The Pharisees oftentimes would replace God's law with their own traditions and would do the same with Christ's law. But those that keep all of Christ's commandments will be great in the kingdom of heaven.

20 "For I say unto you, that except your righteousness shall exceed [the righteousness] of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no wise enter into the kingdom of heaven"

The Pharisees went about doing their own righteousness in replacing God's commandments/righteousness with their own traditions. Other times the Pharisees would faithlessly try to keep the OT law flawlessly trying to merit salvation, Rom 10:3. The kingdom of heaven is only for the righteous man that keeps all (least and great) of Christ's commandments...verses 21ff Christ makes a distinction between righteousness under the OT law to righteousness under His NT law.
 
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psychomom

Guest
#5
this is probably the minority opinion, but...FWIW.

i think the people hearing Jesus say these words must have been astonished.
we hear Pharisee and immediately it sounds in our ears as a pejorative,
but to the everyday guy at that time, the scribes and the Pharisees were the religious exemplars of the day.
maybe little Avi got tired of having them held up by mama as THE people to be like?
:rolleyes:

in my mind, Jesus is giving Law in Matt. 5-7.
the hearers of His day would probably have felt the weight of it more than we do today.
as humans, when we feel the weight of God's Law, we tend to lessen the demand to one we can meet.
so, pluck out your eye! (feel the weight of that demand?) becomes, don't look at that particular magazine.

i'm guessing the human heart hasn't changed all that much in 2,000 years, and as we do today,
the listeners of Jesus had most likely lessened the demand for perfection in God's Law to a set of externals,
and ones that thought they could keep, too! (don't we all)

could we look at the verses that precede v.20 and i'll hush?

“Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.
For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
Whoever then annuls (or relaxes) one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

Jesus is stating he hadn't come to sweep the demand of the Law under the rug.
He wasn't going to relax that righteous demand to one people could keep.
i think at least some of the people began to squirm in their seats and wonder who in the world
could enter the Kingdom.


 
Nov 26, 2011
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#6
What does Jesus mean here?

Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

It is very obvious what Jesus means there, all one need to is look at the surrounding context.

Jesus states...

Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

He then immediately teaches...

Mat 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: [Outward Sin]
Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. [Inward Sin (ie. corrupted heart)]

The righteousness of the Pharisees was external only. In other words it was all a show but underneath they were filthy.

Mat 23:25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
Mat 23:26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
Mat 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
Mat 23:28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

Which is why Jesus would teach...

Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: [Outward Sin]
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. [Inward Sin (ie. corrupted heart)]

Therefore...

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the , who righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

We do this via FAITH because faith establishes the law within the heart...

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Because...

Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Gal 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Faith works by love. The Pharisees didn't understand that and Jesus had to correct them on it. The Pharisees sought their justification in the law and ignored a faith that works by love and thus the law was not established in their hearts. Thus their righteousness was not righteousness at all because it was purely an act of external regimentation to rules and regulations.

Paul wrote this...

Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Jesus taught that exact same thing...

Mar 12:28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?
Mar 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
Mar 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
Mar 12:31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.


This is all so simple even a child could understand it. Yet what do many people do? They ignore it and uphold invented doctrines which involve a transferred or credited righteousness which they think cloaks them while they manifestly keep on sinning every day in thought, word and deed.

Jesus showed us the means by which our hearts may be cleansed once and for all whereby we may be reconciled to God.

1Pe 1:13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
1Pe 1:14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
1Pe 1:15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
1Pe 1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

Lev 20:7 Sanctify yourselves therefore, and be ye holy: for I am the LORD your God.
Lev 20:8 And ye shall keep my statutes, and do them: I am the LORD which sanctify you.

1Pe 1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:
1Pe 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
1Pe 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
1Pe 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
1Pe 1:21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
1Pe 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Mat 5:48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. [Moral perfection via a clean heart (ie. walking via a faith that works by love as we walk in the Spirit)]


 
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psychomom

Guest
#7

Mat 5:48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. [Moral perfection via a clean heart (ie. walking via a faith that works by love as we walk in the Spirit)]
hmm...moral perfection, eh? :rolleyes:

srsly, can we feel the weight of that Law?

BE PERFECT, JUST LIKE GOD

that's Law!

the Gospel is not behavior modification or learning to become more moral!
(and God forbid we think that's so we can have our best life now)

the Gospel is Good News to the downtrodden, the broken hearted, ragamuffins who know they don't have it all together
and don't know what to do about it.
you would take these little ones and weigh them down with a program for better living through moralism!


i thought of this
last weekend while i was reading "The Gospel Mystery of Sanctification" by Walter Marshall.
in it he says (to us all!) that we're salvation (and sanctification) by law addicts.
he says, so poignantly,
'In your heart you still want the duty of what you should do to come before the comforts of what Christ has done."

i mean, do we honestly think we are loving God
will ALL our hearts,
ALL our souls,
ALL our strength,
ALL our minds??

AND putting the needs and just wants of every other person on the planet before our own?
not just sometimes, ALL the time? 24/7/365?

please, accept my heartfelt apologies, everyone, for ranting.
so frustrating to have Christ come to give this incredible gift
only to have it downgraded to some kind of 'help' to live a morally perfect life.

:rolleyes:
 
Nov 26, 2011
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#8
Imputed righteousness, faith accounted for righteousness (Romans 4:5-6) exceeds the self righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees. Matthew 23:14 - Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you devour widows' houses, and for a pretense make long prayers. Therefore you will receive greater condemnation.
Romans 4:5-6 is not an isolated passage, it has context...

Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; [Jesus Christ demonstrated true righteousness which flows from a pure heart rooted in love, this is the righteousness of God without the law, a righteousness by faith that works by love.]
Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: [Genuine believers abide in this faith that works by love because they walk according the Spirit of life IN Jesus Christ]
Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: [The redemption is the breaking of the bondage of sin over our lives, redemption literally means "to be set free by payment of ransom." Jesus died on our behalf to we could die with Him and then be raised with Him.]
Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; [Jesus death was a sin offering that expiates sin when we partake in it. We apply His blood to ourselves as we present ourselves as a living sacrifice to God upon the alter and His blood purges our souls of our former rebellion. It is all figurative, not literal. There is nothing magical in hemoblobin. The death of Christ declares the righteousness of God to all the world for Jesus was a lamb without spot (ie. he never sinned) and through His sacrifice He purchases a people from disobedience to obedience. God accepts that purchase.]
Rom 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. [God is declared as just in forgiven sin because through the means of forgiveness the heart of the sinner is purified and therefore there is no compunction to reoffend, thus God's law is not mocked by the perception of "sin now and say sorry later."] If God were to simply offer unlimited forgiveness apart from some mechanism for cleansing (the death of Christ) then His holiness and justice would be mocked as there would be no evident reason to not sin now and repent later.]
Rom 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. [The law of faith which works by love. Justification of men is hinged upon the heart transformation which occurs through the redemption process. It does not hinge upon external rule keeping which does not effect the heart.]
Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. [The law of faith deals with the inward man whilst deeds of the law superficially deal with outward appearances.]
Rom 3:29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
Rom 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. [Literal circumcision changes only the outward appearance, it therefore has nothing to do with the underlying fundamental whereby which we are justified. Faith working by love purifies the heart and the heart is what God looks at. Thus Jews and Gentiles are both justified by faith apart from the law.]
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. [The law is not made void because faith upholds the Spirit of the Law which is the underlying reason for law in the first place (hence love is the greatest commandment and love works no ill)]
Rom 4:1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
Rom 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. [Abraham did not lean on his own deeds, rather He leaned on trusting and following God. True righteousness is sourced from God and therefore God reckons anyone who is obeying God from the heart as righteous apart from their deeds.]
Rom 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

Now many false teachers quote the blow verses in complete isolation and build an entire doctrine upon them in total isolation of their context. They teach that the following two verses teach that the "righteousness of Jesus Christ is credited to the believers account." That doctrine is a lie. That doctrine convinces people that they can possess manifestly wicked hearts yet be acceptable to God because of a Jesus Cloak.

Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Rom 4:7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Rom 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Paul is referring to the sentiment found in Psalm 32 which states...

Psa 32:1 A Psalm of David, Maschil. Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.
Psa 32:2 Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

Notice the last part of verse 2 above, "in whose spirit there is no guile." Many people ignore that because it speaks of a condition of the heart. Many people want to be cleared of condemnation whilst their heart remains unclean and therefore uphold doctrines which teach as much. The end of that verse contradicts that notion and thus you'll notice it is snipped off in many a church sermon.

Anyway we continue...
Rom 4:9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
Rom 4:10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.
Rom 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
Rom 4:12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised. [Genuine faith has steps, genuine faith has a walk. Genuine faith involves being faithful to God from the heart which is why genuine faith produces genuine righteousness from a clean heart. Faith is the active dynamic whereby the grace of God is put into effect.]
Rom 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
Rom 4:14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
Rom 4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
Rom 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
Rom 4:18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
Rom 4:19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara's womb:
Rom 4:20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; [Abraham trusted God. God reckoned the faith Abraham has as righteousness.]
Rom 4:21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
Rom 4:22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

Notice that there is not one mention in that passage of the "righteousness of Christ" being credited to the account of a believer. Rather God reckons GENUINE FAITH (a faith that walks in the steps of that faith) as righteousness.
 
Nov 26, 2011
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#9
hmm...moral perfection, eh? :rolleyes:
You don't like that idea do you? Yet Jesus said it...

Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Perfect - G5046 - teleios
From G5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with G3588) completeness: - of full age, man, perfect.

Jesus plainly taught the people to be "perfect as God is perfect" and the word used means "moral perfection."

That statement is made within the context of a teaching of inward righteousness vs outward righteousness. Jesus even told the Pharisees to cleanse themselves inwardly, ie. get their hearts right.

Yet you reject that. You claim such a thing is impossible. You also twist such a notion into s strawman, "oh do you love God 24/7/365 days a year? oh do you put the needs and just wants of every other person on the planet before our own?"

Did Jesus eat? Did Jesus rest? Was that breaking your strawman?

Why do you perceive is as impossible to be faithful to God all the time? Is it because underneath you really don't want to? I don't really know for sure, I can only read your words. I suspect it is because you believe in total depravity.

I write about heart purity and inward righteousness manifested through abiding in the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ and you reject that. Why? Is it offensive to you? It is what Jesus taught. It is what Paul taught. I can quote the passages...

Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

You don't believe that?

1Pe 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

You don't believe that?

Heart purity is impossible in your mind? Such a notion frustrates you and causes you to rant?


The "incredible gift" you speak of is the "legal exchange" you believe in. A purely abstract notion of salvation where you are still manifestly in a wicked state yet credited with the righteousness of Christ. The Bible doesn't teach that stuff. That is mythical fairy tales for adults who reject the very words of Jesus.

Paul stated this...

Php 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
Php 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
Php 3:16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.
Php 3:17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.

Was Paul lying there? He is using the same word for perfect as Jesus used. Moral perfection, ie. having a perfect heart towards God and therefore walking in the Spirit.

You reject that? Would Paul frustrate you also and cause you to rant? I wonder.

How about John...

1Jn 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
1Jn 4:13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.
1Jn 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
1Jn 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
1Jn 4:16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
1Jn 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

Is he lying?

John is just basically repeating what Jesus taught...

Joh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
Joh 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Joh 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
Joh 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
Joh 15:8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
Joh 15:9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
Joh 15:11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

Yet you imply such a thing is impossible and twist it into "you would take these little ones and weigh them down with a program for better living through moralism!"

Abiding in the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ by a faith that works by love having been redeemed from darkness to light is "weighing people down with a program for better living through moralism" ? Really? Think about what you are saying. You are seriously deceived.

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about and your mind has clearly been put into a neutral uncritical state via the false doctrines you ascribe to. Wake up and believe the Bible. Stop listening to the wolves and their lies.
 
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psychomom

Guest
#10
Scott, i won't argue scripture with you.
i do believe in 'total depravity'.
and i thank God for the righteousness that is Christ's,
yes, imputed righteousness.

here's a verse from Phil 3 you left out:
(v.9)
and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith.

i'm out. :)
 

KohenMatt

Senior Member
Jun 28, 2013
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#11
The Pharisees were trusting in the law and their own efforts to be righteous. Jesus was saying that true righteousness comes from something greater: Himself. So unless your true righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees, you're in trouble.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#12
Pharisees righteousness was merely outward.
They had neither the imputed righteousness of Christ
NOR
A heart after God's righteousness...
IOW, they were not born again.
 
May 15, 2013
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#13
What does Jesus mean here?

Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Whatever the little amount of righteousness that the Pharisees has, Jesus is letting us know that we better have had a lot more than them. They were entrusted with ten bags of gold since they have had the knowledge and they had produced nothing, and which the others has less knowledge, should produce more.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#14
The Pharisees righteousness never attained this ...

Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Romans 3:21-22 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Romans 4:3-6, 9 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

1 Corinthians 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
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#15
What does Jesus mean here?

Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

You're gonna need help with that. Being Perfect as your Father in Heaven is Perfect. Lots of help. You'll never achieve it by your own work.

John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

You can tell someone to love their neighbor and love God. But they won't be able to do it unless they have faith in Christ and His work that He has done and will do in them.
 
T

The_highwayman

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#16
Our Kingdom righteousness, must be larger than their self Righteousness.
 
May 14, 2014
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#17
What does Jesus mean here?

Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
"...for they say and do not." Mt. 23:3

Jesus wants us to obey Him.

"Depart from Me ye cursed..." Mt.25:41

Those who do not obey Jesus will be destroyed.
 
Nov 26, 2011
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#18
Scott, i won't argue scripture with you.
i do believe in 'total depravity'.
and i thank God for the righteousness that is Christ's,
yes, imputed righteousness.

here's a verse from Phil 3 you left out:
(v.9)
and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith.

i'm out. :)
Of course you won't discuss the specific points I made because they are the actual words of Jesus, Paul and Peter. It is much easier to ignore them and say "i'm out."

As pertaining to Php 3:9 that verse does not undo anything I said. I quoted Paul's words in Philippians where he plainly uses the word perfect (morally perfect) and describes himself as being perfect.

Was he lying about that? It is a hard question for you to answer isn't it because you either have to deny Paul or deny your position of moral perfection (via a faith that works by love) being an impossibility for the Christian.

You doctrine is at odds with what the Bible plainly teaches. What people like you do is snip isolated verses out of their context and use them as proof texts to support a theology, a theology which the context of those verses refutes.

Php 3:9 is not an isolated verse either...

Php 3:1 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe.
Php 3:2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.
Php 3:3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
Php 3:4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
Php 3:5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
Php 3:6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
Php 3:7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
Php 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
Php 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
Php 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

Paul is at first peaking about his diligence to adhering to the traditions of Jewish law. He was physically circumcised, he was of one of the tribes, he was a Pharisee who who loved the letter of the law and went about persecuting those whom he perceived as violating that letter. He was acting just like the Pharisees who accused Jesus of violating the law by healing on the Sabbath.

Paul was zealous in his deeds and adhered to the letter of the law blameless and thus viewed himself as righteous. Yet when confronted with Christ and converted he counted all of that as dung, as a loss, so as to win Christ. Christ was the opposite of all that stuff because Christ was about inward reformation and not outward reformation.

Inward reformation is through the faith of Christ. What was the faith of Christ? It is a faith that works by love that upholds the righteousness of the law within the heart. Thus it was not Paul's own righteousness but the righteousness of God. It has NOTHING to do with a forensic transfer, it has EVERYTHING to do with a MANIFESTATION.

Your version of imputed righteousness is a forensic transfer. You view of imputed righteousness is a cloak for a sinful state.

You alluded to these verses in your first post...

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus came to fulfill the law. Jesus also spoke of DOING the commandments.

Paul writes...

Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

The righteousness of the law being fulfilled in us is connected to walking after the Spirit. This is exactly what Peter teaches...

1Pe 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Unfeigned love (which fulfills the righteous requirements of the law) is a product of obedience to the truth through the Spirit. Again it has NOTHING to do with a legal transfer.

Paul speaks of the cross...

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Where is the forensic transfer in that? It doesn't exist.

The righteousness of God is manifested in us via us dying with Christ whereby the body of sin is destroyed that we no longer serve sin. We are then raised up to WALK in newness of life as servants of righteousness. Thus the righteousness of God is fulfilled IN us. Isn't this what Jesus taught?

Joh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
Joh 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

This magic transfer of a forensic righteousness is a mental fiction. No one can quote any verse which states it. The early church didn't teach it. It isn't true.

Look at this passage...

Rev 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Being judged according to our deeds is connected to one being just or unjust. Your doctrine can have someone doing evil and yet considered righteous because they "trust in Jesus" and are thus covered in the magic cloak of the "righteousness of Christ." Your doctrine totally throws the reality of a transformed heart completely out the window.

It is not hard to understand.
 
Nov 26, 2011
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#19
Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

You're gonna need help with that. Being Perfect as your Father in Heaven is Perfect. Lots of help. You'll never achieve it by your own work.

John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

You can tell someone to love their neighbor and love God. But they won't be able to do it unless they have faith in Christ and His work that He has done and will do in them.
Folks like you always deny human responsibility. You don't do it directly, you do it by implication. It is very subtle.

"Faith in Christ and His work that he has done and will do in them." You are preaching the abstraction salvation many buy into, this package salvation. Just "trust in Jesus" and the "magic transfer" and God will change you sometime down the track, yet in the meantime it is sin, sin and more sin. Your doctrine uses biblical rhetoric to cloak "ye can sin and not surely die."

You folks never speak about forsaking sin in repentance. You folks never speak about the crucifixion of the flesh with its passions and desires. You folks never speak about striving to enter in at the strait gate and enduring the narrow way. All that is out the window and in its place is "confess, trust and receive."
 
Nov 26, 2011
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#20
Grandpa and Psychomom,


Does a pornography addict have to stop indulging themselves in porn watching BEFORE God will forgive them?

Does a thief have to stop stealing BEFORE God will forgive them?


Questions like those uproot the base errors of your belief system and that is why often you will refuse to answer them.

Please answer them honestly.