OSAS supporters, explain these, if you will please.

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phil112

Guest
#1
Ezekiel 33
12. [SUP] [/SUP]Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he sinneth.

13. [SUP] [/SUP]When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it.

18. When the righteous turneth from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he shall even die thereby.


 
Jun 26, 2014
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#2
And this one too!

Isaiah 56:1-7 Be just and fair to all, the Lord God says. Do what’s right and good, for I am coming soon to rescue you. Blessed is the man who refuses to work during my Sabbath days of rest, but honors them; and blessed is the man who checks himself from doing wrong. And my blessings are for Gentiles, too, when they accept the Lord; don’t let them think that I will make them second-class citizens. And this is for the eunuchs too. They can be as much mine as anyone. For I say this to the eunuchs who keep my Sabbaths holy, who choose the things that please me and obey my laws: I will give them—in my house, within my walls—a name far greater than the honor they would receive from having sons and daughters. For the name that I will give them is an everlasting one; it will never disappear. As for the Gentiles, the outsiders who join the people of the Lord and serve him and love his name, who are his servants and don’t desecrate the Sabbath, and have accepted his covenant and promises, I will bring them also to my holy mountain of Jerusalem and make them full of joy within my House of Prayer.
I will accept their sacrifices and offerings, for my Temple shall be called “A House of Prayer for All People”!
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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#3
Psalms 32:2, 2 Sam 19:19, Rom 4:6-8

Salvation is by grace not by works. Righteousness or iniquity is imputed by God and only evidenced in works. God alone knows the heart and alone is able to judge the heart.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Jun 4, 2014
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#4
Simple. It is the reason we die today. We have the power to beat death, but we still love it. Salvation cannot be taken away no more than a man can stop the sun from shinning.
 
Jul 27, 2011
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#5
Why does it need to be a challenge? if every body is right then somebodies wrong.
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#6
Why does it need to be a challenge? if every body is right then somebodies wrong.
It is a debate that will never be won.

For there are scriptures that support osas. ( Scriptures that speak of ones who are and stay true in obedience to our Lord )


Scriptures that support salvation lost ( Falling away, departing from the faith, sheep who gets lost that needs to be brought back, and so on )
 
Jul 27, 2011
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#7
its scary and confusing when 2 sides are saying same thing basically, but yet, it looks like arguing. every body part has a different job, and thought. the foot doesn't think about picking something up, and the hand doesn't think about kicking something. It is on peoples hearts what body part they are, and nothing but God can change that. this has been asked many many times, can we share what we believe? All of us, and not condemning our brothers and sisters? It doesn't need to be a your wrong, i'm right thing.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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#8
It is a debate that will never be won.

For there are scriptures that support osas. ( Scriptures that speak of ones who are (and stay true) in obedience to our Lord )


Scriptures that support salvation lost ( Falling away, departing from the faith, sheep who gets lost that needs to be brought back, and so on )


and stay true means you also can, not stay true
 
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Jul 27, 2011
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#9
i think threads being in mindset of this this how i feel and that is how you feel . be nice, rejoice, and enjoy.
 
Jul 27, 2011
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#10
God is putting things in order. God is the only One that can make people, and the only one that can break people.
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#11
and stay true means you also can, not stay true
I know that, I was just pointing out how they only use the scriptures that talk about those who stay firm in the word.

The ones about falling away, departing, and so forth; They use excuses like they don't apply to us, was only spoken to them not us, they were not truly sheep to begin with, or use scriptures like 1 John 2:19 to support their debate.
( Problem is 1 John 2:19 is talking about forms of antichrists, deceivers that come in and then were cast out do to them defiling the word. )
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#12
Ezekiel 33
12. [SUP] [/SUP]Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he sinneth.

13. [SUP] [/SUP]When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it.

18. When the righteous turneth from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he shall even die thereby.


that's why I look to Christ and His righteousness.
Those verses actually work more in favor of OSAS.
 
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Jul 27, 2011
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#13
Forgive me Phill, for throwing your thread of, i just think the title could be nicer. i believe in osas, but i can't explain why, its just how i feel and i get upset and confused, when it seems someone is telling me i'm wrong. maybe it wasn't your intention to come off that way in title, and i'm sorry if i jumped to conclusion. so i would be glad to hear in your own words why you don't believe in osas. i gave my answer(i don't know).
 
Jul 27, 2011
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#14
maybe forums are made for battling i don't know much about cyber world, only how to get in it. so sorry, you all carry on. its your world, i'm just passing through.
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#15
I tell people all the time, if you believe that you personally will not lose your salvation because you will always stay true to our Lord in obeying Him, which includes what He said.

Then I praise God for giving you the strength and endurance to remain that way.

There are some out there that are still young and weak in the faith though and don't have that endurance yet, therefore they are easy targets for satan to draw them away with false teachings.

Then you have those who are mislead from the beginning by being under pastor's who teach falsely that we can go on living life however we want, even live in willful sin. Which is not biblical.

As 2 Peter says,

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”

Their end is now worse because they were in that saved state, but then they returned to sin which leads to spiritual death.
Instead of keeping their faith in our Lord Jesus.
 

nowyouseem033

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2014
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#16
well first of all its not talking about maintaining salvation or eternal security in this verse.
Read the scripture within the context.
Its simply saying that God judges you according to your ways. Verse 20.
NOTHING in this scripture suggests anything about the security of salvation because God is making it clear to the righteous and the wicked that they will be both judged by their deeds wether hypocrisy of the righteous or sincerity of the wicked, they will justly and fairly be judged. None of these people are in a state of grace or sanctification yet so you can say God is speaking to sinners.
Righteous Hypocrites and Wicked Sinners.
Both are sinners. One leans on his righteousness and the other doesn't care for God.
Both need God and God speaks on how he judges these people.
Not OSAS. Read within context.

And also scripture also states in NT letters of Paul (Romans) that "all who are Israel are not of Israel" meaning all who are Gods beloved chosen people are not all of Jewish descent namely now of Gentile descent also.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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#18
Ezekiel 33
12. Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he sinneth.

13. When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it.

18. When the righteous turneth from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he shall even die thereby.


You're kidding right? Those verses have nothing to do with OSAS, it's preaching against works salvation.
The righteousness of the righteous will never deliver him, only the righteousness of Christ will deliver him.
 
Jun 26, 2014
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#19
Eternal security is true when you're abiding in Christ.

John 10:29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.

"Snatch them out" equates to a third party doing the snatching. You are eternally secured and protected while you're abiding in Christ and no one can snatch you out. But if you want to freely walk out, God will not force you to stay.

2 Thessalonians 3:3 But the Lord is faithful, who will establish you and guard you from the evil one.
 
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nowyouseem033

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2014
535
30
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#20
I tell people all the time, if you believe that you personally will not lose your salvation because you will always stay true to our Lord in obeying Him, which includes what He said.

Then I praise God for giving you the strength and endurance to remain that way.

There are some out there that are still young and weak in the faith though and don't have that endurance yet, therefore they are easy targets for satan to draw them away with false teachings.

Then you have those who are mislead from the beginning by being under pastor's who teach falsely that we can go on living life however we want, even live in willful sin. Which is not biblical.

As 2 Peter says,

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”

Their end is now worse because they were in that saved state, but then they returned to sin which leads to spiritual death.
Instead of keeping their faith in our Lord Jesus.
knowledge of Christ doesn't mean your saved. Which is the point of this verse
It says "for IF.............
IF implies a hypothetical situation. it hasn't happened,
peter saying that this could happened he's not saying it has happened.

this scripture is simply saying that these people (WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE? False prophets.. read verse 1 through and you will find its not talking about Christians losing salvation but rather False Teachers teaching heresy), that these people , are going to be judged more because they know the truth but warp it for their own means. In other words they were never saved in the first place.
Knowledge of Christ doesn't automatically mean your saved.
Sometimes knowledge of Christ for some can be used and manupilated to teach lies and lead astray people.

Read entire Chapter.... Always Peter uses THEY, THEY, THEY meaning false teachers, false teachers, false teachers. A dog (false teacher) not believer, the dog is the false teacher because the verse says "but it has happened to them" whos them??? duh false teachers. A dog returns to its own vomit.. (whats vomit... teaching)

this doesn't disprove OSAS but has nothing to do with believers being saved . Read your bibles